PDA

View Full Version : Need BBEG Help 3.5 (My Players Please Don't Enter)



FerhagoRosewood
2009-12-21, 05:50 AM
"Humanity is an abomination. I just evolved to the next step."

So here's the story before the crunch...

Long ago two lovers, a beautiful Paladin woman of Pelor named Claire Dawnstar and a man of slightly shady character (Not sure his name yet), have happily become parents. Both were content to lay down their arms and become proud parents. But an nation famous for it's use of undead have sent out their legions to an area defenseless. So the two, with a few nameless others, regretfully leave their child with a trusted care giver to march to defend the land.

It goes horribly wrong. All but the lovers are slain. And they are on their last legs being chased by hordes of undead. They just manage to throw themselves into a back room of a castle. Claire quickly seals the door with positive energy (homebrewed thing) as a small reprieve. With their damaged armor, lack of resources, and wounds... They aren't escaping. As Claire starts to formulate a plan that may save the both of them... Her lover pierces her heart with her own sword (as it is the strongest weapon there). She dies, staring into his eyes in shock.

With tears streaming down his face, he closes her dull eyes and rests her body upon a platform. In a moment of weakness, he decides to kill her so that she wouldn't suffer a cruel barbaric death. Then he has resolved himself to take his own life. He then reaches for the sword himself when he no longer hears the undead outside the door. Rather, he hears them falling back as their masters are convinced all have fallen. The blood on his hands, his own beloved and mother of his child, was all for naught.

He spends countless days in the same room, racked with guilt. During the first days, he casts a Permanency Gentle Repose spell (my own houserule; Resurrection is an extreme rarity) upon her body so that she would never decay and resemble the things she hated so. Going insane with the silence and trapped with his own thoughts, he seals the sword in her chest with negative energy. Finally he notices a small opening near the ceiling, again another blow to what he thought was an act of mercy.

He escapes, with no retention of humanity nor sanity. Revenge being his only reason for living, his past life now more a curse than anything, he seeks destruction of the nation that caused all his sorrow. But he does not have the power he needs. So he does the unthinkable... He becomes a lich. And then lays waste to the whole nation, literally wiping the nation off the map.

Where the party will find this twisted soul with a hatred for humanity, that I have not decided yet (nor do I need to decide for awhile).

Crunch:

He'd have to be, when he was human, at minimum caster level 11. I probably don't want to go higher than 18 for him. He has to be able to use some sort of negative energy before turning into a Lich. And, of course, he has to be able to destroy a medium sized city (highest level probably being a 10).

So yeah... What do you think should he be?

*Note: He may be one of the strongest people in my world but he is not the main BBEG.*

AslanCross
2009-12-21, 07:40 AM
Well, the Necromancy school is all about channeling negative energy, so I think he could certainly do that from a low level. If you actually mean he is able to Rebuke Undead, then you could make him a neutral cleric who chose Rebuking instead of Turning.

Casters can lay waste to cities in various ways. Fireball can lay waste to large areas of flammable structures---more if the spell is widened. Disintegrate can collapse large buildings by taking out load-bearing pillars. A 16th-level cleric with the Destruction domain has access to massive area damage spells like Earth Reaver, Firestorm, Earthquake, Ice Flowers, etc. As an added bonus, he gets Disintegrate.

Altair_the_Vexed
2009-12-21, 07:43 AM
This guy is a fallen paladin, clearly, so go with Blackguard.
Give him several levels of Cleric, with the madness and destruction domains. He's crazy, right?

Fishy
2009-12-21, 08:19 AM
If you're open to the idea of using Shadow Magic, Black Labyrinth (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a) is the most fun you can have destroying a city. Shadowcasters also make great BBEGs because, let's face it, they don't really have to worry about longevity.

Shadow and Negative Energy aren't the same thing, though, but if you really wanted to, you could get there with Dread Necromancer 1 + Versatile Spellcaster + Noctumancer... and have a character with a bunch of unrelated and non-synergistic abilities. Yay!

I mostly point that out because I'm a fan of weird liches. You can use the same technique with Cerebromancer to get a psionic lich, which no one sees coming, or Anima Mage and get a Binder lich. You can also make Liches out of Duskblades, Artificers, Warlocks, Factotums, Spellthieves, Hexblades, Paladins, Rangers, Blackguards, Assassins, and Bards. Good times.

FerhagoRosewood
2009-12-22, 05:24 AM
Well, the Necromancy school is all about channeling negative energy, so I think he could certainly do that from a low level. If you actually mean he is able to Rebuke Undead, then you could make him a neutral cleric who chose Rebuking instead of Turning.

Casters can lay waste to cities in various ways. Fireball can lay waste to large areas of flammable structures---more if the spell is widened. Disintegrate can collapse large buildings by taking out load-bearing pillars. A 16th-level cleric with the Destruction domain has access to massive area damage spells like Earth Reaver, Firestorm, Earthquake, Ice Flowers, etc. As an added bonus, he gets Disintegrate.

Rebuke would be a bonus but I suppose it could just be negative energy like that of the Necromancy school.


This guy is a fallen paladin, clearly, so go with Blackguard.
Give him several levels of Cleric, with the madness and destruction domains. He's crazy, right?

Well the problem with that though is that he has to be able to cast Gentle Repose & Permanency. And I don't know if someone originally sane would pick madness & destruction as domains. I love the idea, but I also have to deal with the story too.


If you're open to the idea of using Shadow Magic, Black Labyrinth (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a) is the most fun you can have destroying a city. Shadowcasters also make great BBEGs because, let's face it, they don't really have to worry about longevity.

Shadow and Negative Energy aren't the same thing, though, but if you really wanted to, you could get there with Dread Necromancer 1 + Versatile Spellcaster + Noctumancer... and have a character with a bunch of unrelated and non-synergistic abilities. Yay!

I mostly point that out because I'm a fan of weird liches. You can use the same technique with Cerebromancer to get a psionic lich, which no one sees coming, or Anima Mage and get a Binder lich. You can also make Liches out of Duskblades, Artificers, Warlocks, Factotums, Spellthieves, Hexblades, Paladins, Rangers, Blackguards, Assassins, and Bards. Good times.

That all sounds good, but I have no experience with Shadow magic and it's frowned upon in my group. Unrelated & non-synergistic abilities would work, though since this guy after killing his soul mate does not have logic anymore. Just as long as he is threatening to the party that will work for me.

Anymore ideas? I've enjoyed the ones mentioned so far.

^^

Thurbane
2009-12-22, 09:07 PM
How about a Dread Necromancer/Binder/Anima Mage? You'll lose 1 level of casting (and some sweet DN special abilities), but you'll get some cool vestige abilities. If (at level 18) you go DN 10/Binder 1 (using Improved Binding)/Anima Mage 7, you'll get two 5th level vestiges and 17th level DN casting (if you can squeeze in 1 more level, or use some kind of early entry trick for Anima Mage, he can get 9th level spells).

Just a thought.

tahu88810
2009-12-22, 09:22 PM
Sor 6/Fighter 1/SpellSword 4

Simple, yet effective.

sombrastewart
2009-12-22, 11:08 PM
Well the problem with that though is that he has to be able to cast Gentle Repose & Permanency. And I don't know if someone originally sane would pick madness & destruction as domains. I love the idea, but I also have to deal with the story too.

If the guy has really flipped his gourd, then having him carry those domains wouldn't have to have been what he did originally. Being a cleric of a concept instead of a deity is acceptable, and since he apparently threw the brakes on so hard his sanity flew through the windshield, he could basically be an adherent to a concept instead.

Everyman
2009-12-23, 09:12 AM
I'm going to second the suggestion to be a cleric with the Destruction domain. It fits perfectly with what you've described. As a second domain, I'd recommend the Magic domain: You are a lich, after all. Otherwise, I would suggest the Spite domain (Heroes of Horror), which would help emulate that desire to bring ruin and vengence on his foes.

Assuming you focus on magic, I'd use...

Human lich Cleric 10 / Contemplative X (depends on how powerful you want him)
Domains: Destruction, Magic, Spite, Madness

Simple, easy to remember, and I think captures a lot of what has happened to the character (destruction and magic fits his past of being a caster with rash, destructive actions, spite from his years of self-loathing and hatred for others, madness for his descent into lich-dom and belief that he has evolved).

FerhagoRosewood
2009-12-24, 02:26 AM
I'm going to second the suggestion to be a cleric with the Destruction domain. It fits perfectly with what you've described. As a second domain, I'd recommend the Magic domain: You are a lich, after all. Otherwise, I would suggest the Spite domain (Heroes of Horror), which would help emulate that desire to bring ruin and vengence on his foes.

Assuming you focus on magic, I'd use...

Human lich Cleric 10 / Contemplative X (depends on how powerful you want him)
Domains: Destruction, Magic, Spite, Madness

Simple, easy to remember, and I think captures a lot of what has happened to the character (destruction and magic fits his past of being a caster with rash, destructive actions, spite from his years of self-loathing and hatred for others, madness for his descent into lich-dom and belief that he has evolved).

Wow. This seems to be like the most dead on I've seen, no offense to those that have helped me (as I appreciate your help as well). What book is Contemplative in? And are there any Gods that have the destruction/magic domains? Only one character was allowed with the "concept" aspect in our collective world (We trade DMing in the same world/canon) and that was mine. Then it was banned by one of our main DM's, so that can't be used.

Roc Ness
2009-12-24, 03:17 AM
Make him a ghost. He doesn't need CL 11, he is still undead, and still CR 2, but he is also indestructable unless one solves the problem that caused his unrest (even better than a phylactery). It seems to fit well with your story, and doesn't require a deranged villain with (maybe selfish) pseudo-good intentions to stoop to ultimate evil.

FerhagoRosewood
2009-12-24, 03:26 AM
Make him a ghost. He doesn't need CL 11, he is still undead, and still CR 2, but he is also indestructable unless one solves the problem that caused his unrest (even better than a phylactery). It seems to fit well with your story, and doesn't require a deranged villain with (maybe selfish) pseudo-good intentions to stoop to ultimate evil.

The CL would be for the Permanency on Gentle Repose.

...As for the last part... Uh... Why is that a bad thing for someone to fall?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-12-24, 03:42 AM
Wow. This seems to be like the most dead on I've seen, no offense to those that have helped me (as I appreciate your help as well). What book is Contemplative in? And are there any Gods that have the destruction/magic domains? Only one character was allowed with the "concept" aspect in our collective world (We trade DMing in the same world/canon) and that was mine. Then it was banned by one of our main DM's, so that can't be used.

Make up a deity. It could be some powerful horror from the far realm, which would certainly explain his insanity. Maybe it's an ancient dead god, and you can give him the feat Servant of the Fallen (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Servant_of_the_Fallen) from Lost Empires of Faerun, adapted for your own setting of course. There are countless ways around a preset list of deities and the domains they offer without using a nondeity concept or disrupting the setting's current hierarchy, you just need to be creative with it.

Consider using Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) from UA instead, or maybe change the build to Cleric 6/ Divine Oracle 4/ Contemplative. Both of those are in Complete Divine, and he could have visited the Frog God's Fane detailed in Complete Scoundrel to get the prerequisite feat for Divine Oracle for free.

FerhagoRosewood
2009-12-24, 03:54 AM
Make up a deity. It could be some powerful horror from the far realm, which would certainly explain his insanity. Maybe it's an ancient dead god, and you can give him the feat Servant of the Fallen (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Servant_of_the_Fallen) from Lost Empires of Faerun, adapted for your own setting of course. There are countless ways around a preset list of deities and the domains they offer without using a nondeity concept or disrupting the setting's current hierarchy, you just need to be creative with it.

I share the setting with a few others and would have to approve the God or Goddess first. Plus, I like surprises so I'm going to have to be stuck with the preset list.

FerhagoRosewood
2009-12-24, 05:33 AM
I suppose if I swapped Destruction for Death (sad face), I could have him be a follower of Wee Jas. That'd fit everything else then. Other than Destruction.

Everyman
2009-12-24, 01:01 PM
If nothing else, make it a plot point that your BBEG has divine powers that he shouldn't. You shouldn't feel confined to the rules if it makes for a stale character or (worse) improper one.

Why not just say he started as a cleric of Wee Jas (Magic and Law?), but started spiraling down into despair and hate after losing the love of his life. (trade Law for Destruction as DM fiat). Spite and Madness domains can come in from Contemplative levels still.

Is it rules legal? Not really. But you're the DM. If you say "Welp, my BBEG still worships his goddess, but his hatred has warped his abilities", then it happens. I'm sure your players won't mind if it makes for an interesting NPC. Besides, it adds a little mystique to the character. Your players will be wondering for a while what god (or gods, perhaps) he worships.

EDIT: Actually, that's an idea. Maybe you can just rule that (in his desperation to find purpose in his life) your BBEG worships a variety of dark gods. Could explain his variety of domains a bit easier.

FerhagoRosewood
2009-12-24, 10:42 PM
If nothing else, make it a plot point that your BBEG has divine powers that he shouldn't. You shouldn't feel confined to the rules if it makes for a stale character or (worse) improper one.

Why not just say he started as a cleric of Wee Jas (Magic and Law?), but started spiraling down into despair and hate after losing the love of his life. (trade Law for Destruction as DM fiat). Spite and Madness domains can come in from Contemplative levels still.

Is it rules legal? Not really. But you're the DM. If you say "Welp, my BBEG still worships his goddess, but his hatred has warped his abilities", then it happens. I'm sure your players won't mind if it makes for an interesting NPC. Besides, it adds a little mystique to the character. Your players will be wondering for a while what god (or gods, perhaps) he worships.

EDIT: Actually, that's an idea. Maybe you can just rule that (in his desperation to find purpose in his life) your BBEG worships a variety of dark gods. Could explain his variety of domains a bit easier.

...I love you.

>.>;;;

Everyman
2009-12-25, 02:01 PM
...I love you.

>.>;;;

You're quite welcome, my young parson.