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Beelzebub1111
2009-12-21, 08:17 AM
My player wanted to use a 4x speed run into a tackle...I know it can't work in game terms, but HOW doesn't it work, and what would happen if he attempted it?

I should note that I am building a bridge to 2nd ed. players for the first time. and this is our first time using battle maps.

dsmiles
2009-12-21, 08:23 AM
I'd allow it. I'd call it an overrun or bull rush attempt, and at 4x speed, I'd give the player a bonus to his/her roll.

Beelzebub1111
2009-12-21, 08:26 AM
but you can't make an attack while running. It says so right in the rules. I just can't figure out what would happen if it were attempted.

He's essentially trying to use the Run action to go into a grapple.

Simba
2009-12-21, 08:33 AM
Sounds like a charge, somehow...ending in a grapple atempt.

bosssmiley
2009-12-21, 08:41 AM
My player wanted to use a 4x speed run into a tackle...I know it can't work in game terms, but HOW doesn't it work, and what would happen if he attempted it?

I should note that I am building a bridge to 2nd ed. players for the first time. and this is our first time using battle maps.

1. Cross the bridge in the other direction.
2. It counts as a charge.

suryasm
2009-12-21, 08:45 AM
If my understanding is correct, a headlong run, by its very definition, is too fast and reckless to be used as an attack. The only way he could attempt an overrun at 4x speed is if the opponent bodily tried to get in his way (in which case I'd give the player bonuses). Otherwise, I'd allow him to run through the square by saying "the opponent gets out of the way", while giving the opponent an AoO.

Of course, he can always make an overrun or grapple or trip attempt as part of a Charge, which is upto 2x movement. A Charge is also a pretty fast movement, but the player keeps enough caution and balance to actually make an attack at the end of it.

Unless... is the player trying to catch someone who is already running away? Even then, all the player has to do is close to melee. The opponent will provoke an AoO if he tries to continue running, and if the AoO succeeds, the opponent cannot go further. Sounds like the definition of a tackle to me.

dsmiles
2009-12-21, 09:03 AM
but you can't make an attack while running. It says so right in the rules. I just can't figure out what would happen if it were attempted.

He's essentially trying to use the Run action to go into a grapple.

Howerver, from a storytelling DMs perspective, it's dramatic and action porn-esque. It's great for one of my high action games. That's what I love about my players. they invent these huge, high-action scenes, then I adjudicate them with bonuses or penalties based on how well they explain the intent and execution of their actions. It's rolp-playing at it's finest. As a DM, you have the power to let these things fly. Remember, the rules are just guidelines!:smallbiggrin:

Beelzebub1111
2009-12-21, 09:08 AM
If my understanding is correct, a headlong run, by its very definition, is too fast and reckless to be used as an attack. The only way he could attempt an overrun at 4x speed is if the opponent bodily tried to get in his way (in which case I'd give the player bonuses). Otherwise, I'd allow him to run through the square by saying "the opponent gets out of the way", while giving the opponent an AoO.

Of course, he can always make an overrun or grapple or trip attempt as part of a Charge, which is upto 2x movement. A Charge is also a pretty fast movement, but the player keeps enough caution and balance to actually make an attack at the end of it.

Unless... is the player trying to catch someone who is already running away? Even then, all the player has to do is close to melee. The opponent will provoke an AoO if he tries to continue running, and if the AoO succeeds, the opponent cannot go further. Sounds like the definition of a tackle to me.
This is what I was looking for, thank you. And for the record, he was trying to take out a warlock that was pelting him with eldritch spears. What happens will also set precident for the fight against the Lord of Blades.

dsmiles
2009-12-21, 09:14 AM
Meh...you guys have no sense of the dramatic.:smallsigh:

Beelzebub1111
2009-12-21, 09:18 AM
Meh...you guys have no sense of the dramatic.:smallsigh:

This isn't about drama, it's about abuse. If you can take a run action and get a BONUS to hit, why would you do anything else?

Ecalsneerg
2009-12-21, 09:18 AM
The only difference between allowing it during a run and doing it a charge is a slight speed difference and the fact it's in the rulebook. Likely accompanied by spiffy rules.

Using existing rules does not mean it isn't dramatic.

dsmiles
2009-12-21, 09:21 AM
Like I said, and I firmly believe:

Rules are just guidelines.

ericgrau
2009-12-21, 12:01 PM
You may initiate a grapple as part of a charge, and get a +2 on your touch attack for doing so. Bull Rush or Overrun get a +2 to the strength check, IIRC.

60 feet is 12 inches on a battle mat, so it's usually plenty to reach any creature. If not then get boots of speed (from the DMG, a nice item to have anyway) to get the 120 feet you want, or ask your DM for a custom feat:

Running Tackle
Benefit: You may move your run speed when charging to initiate a grapple.

Worira
2009-12-21, 12:36 PM
This is what I was looking for, thank you. And for the record, he was trying to take out a warlock that was pelting him with eldritch spears. What happens will also set precident for the fight against the Lord of Blades.

Are you suggesting that he's planning on tackling the Lord of Blades? Because that would be roughly like trying to tackle a combine harvester.

Beelzebub1111
2009-12-21, 12:42 PM
Are you suggesting that he's planning on tackling the Lord of Blades? Because that would be roughly like trying to tackle a combine harvester.

well if one can use their full run speed to charge somebody, nothing can stop him from doing the same.