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Beelzebub1111
2009-12-21, 09:25 AM
Do you DMs have any promises that you make to yourself and your players that you will never break?

My promise is that I will never use a prestige class, spell, or feat, that I would deny my players if they qualify for it.

Emmerask
2009-12-21, 09:29 AM
If you use it your enemies will use it too someday... :smallbiggrin:

dsmiles
2009-12-21, 09:30 AM
Yeah. I promised my players that anything they can do, the monsters can do too. It generally makes them think twice about trying to break the game.

On the plus side for the players: anything the monsters can do, they can do too.

Oslecamo
2009-12-21, 09:36 AM
On the plus side for the players: anything the monsters can do, they can do too.

With what costs? If the plot involves the BBEG doing some super custom ritual that he has taken centuries to prepare, I would allow the players to replicate it, but they would need a lot of work to make it work as well.

My personal guidelines:
-I will never put the players into a situation where they cannot run away/surrender if they choose to.
-All rules are guidelines...But some rules are more guidelines than others. WBL in particular. If the party breacks in a palace and ends up with more money than they should, I won't rain down magic thunders to destroy the extra loot. Bounty hunters, on the other hand...

dsmiles
2009-12-21, 09:39 AM
With what costs? If the plot involves the BBEG doing some super custom ritual that he has taken centuries to prepare, I would allow the players to replicate it, but they would need a lot of work to make it work as well.

Hey, if they really want it, they can spend the same amount of time researching/preparing it. Doesn't mean that they can't do it. They're just not likely to.

Yuki Akuma
2009-12-21, 09:45 AM
Hey, if they really want it, they can spend the same amount of time researching/preparing it. Doesn't mean that they can't do it. They're just not likely to.

Why would they need to research it? The BBEG probably kept notes.

valadil
2009-12-21, 09:56 AM
Story, combat, roleplay, and mechanics can be prioritized however you like, but player enjoyment always comes first. Any time your story trumps the PCs having a good time, you're doing it wrong.

Danin
2009-12-21, 09:57 AM
Why would they need to research it? The BBEG probably kept notes.

On the list of things to never do as a super villain, keeping detailed notes of your evil plans is right up there with "Though shalt not have hero sized heating ducts"

Personally, I always resolve to never guarantee the death of a player. There is always a way out. Finding it, however, may vary in difficulty. I will also never deny something that a player has worked towards out of hand. That said, I have players warn me at least 3 levels in advance of any multi-classing / prestige classing and they have to clear feats with me in advance.

Emmerask
2009-12-21, 09:57 AM
Why would they need to research it? The BBEG probably kept notes.

even if you have the notes there is still some research required to understand them exactly, or would you use anything a bbeg has left without exactly knowing what will happen? :smallbiggrin:

Perhaps the second page of the notes is completly false and will transport you directly to asmodeus or somesuch :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Mushroom Ninja
2009-12-21, 10:08 AM
I will never:
- Use Disjunction. Seriously, it's not worth it.
- Use Holy Word/Blasphemy/Dictum/Word of Chaos without giving the PCs ample time to prepare.
- Ban a class/PrC/race/feat arbitrarily.

Guinea Anubis
2009-12-21, 10:45 AM
1. That I will never just kill them, there is alwes a way out.

2. Rules work both ways and anything a PC can do so can the monsters/NPCs.

Temet Nosce
2009-12-21, 11:06 AM
If you die, it was your fault, I often have enemies/NPCs that are completely disproportionate power wise to the PCs (both ways) and this can lead to high lethality, but the choice to get involved with these things, and whether to risk death in how they engage them in always theirs and there are always multiple other options.

I'll always say yes, but be warned... I'm the DM, and I actually know what I'm doing. If *you* can do something, I can do it a thousand times better.

Choco
2009-12-21, 11:13 AM
Intelligent enemies learn. For example, if word gets out about how the ubercharger can kill Tarrasques with a single charge expect enemies to do things like ready spears, employ spiked chain trippers, cast quickened walls of force with a readied action, etc.

The way I see it, if the PC's are fighting allegedly intelligent enemies and the same tactics work flawlessly every time, the DM is doing something wrong.

The Demented One
2009-12-21, 11:41 AM
Two quotes, which are basically the heart of running games.



1. Find out what your players want to do.

2. Find and invent reasonably plausible obstacles that stand in the path of the desired goal.

3. Add more obstacles if the players are winning without feeling proud of it (because it was too easy).

4. Remove or weaken obstacles if the players need a morale boost.

5. Apply logical consequences. Bad ideas shouldn't be punished arbitrarily, but in a way that highlights the actual problem so that Pavlovian conditioning can take place.

6. Reward clever fun-building ideas, especially when they change the playing field (which is nicer to say than "when they wreck the game"). Those are the ideas that players will feel the most pride in, so you KNOW they will be excited if the plot goes there. Furthermore, such ideas are usually rife with the holes and flaws of any improvised plan, which means plenty of places to attach plot.



Establish a covenant. You will give them opportunity to change the world at every turn and you will hold them accountable for doing so (or failing to do so). You will let them lose and learn from that loss, but you will spur them toward greatness. Promise them you won't ever use fiat as a way to dominate, and that if you set them up to lose, it's a prelude to an even more badass victory.

Don't forget that it's supposed to be fun! Make sure there is humor to lighten serious moments and drama to add pathos to the nonstop action-movie rollercoaster. Keep checking in with the players about what they want to do, and whether they feel challenged. Give them what they want. Yes is a more useful and powerful answer than no. Iif you say yes most of the time, then sometimes yes means you get something you want. Sometimes it means you get something you didn't want after all. Once yes becomes the default, the players can no longer trust you to be their insurance policy against bad ideas. You won't veto them. You'll let them do it, and see for themselves what happens. This isn't an encouragement to have anything be possible. You can't have consequence unless effect feels like it follows from cause. But whenever you feel the urge to say no, stop and look for a path to yes. You'll get a better story for it most of the time.

Yukitsu
2009-12-21, 11:43 AM
I once told my players the following. Keep in mind that I'm the resident power gamer/rules lawyer, so what I'm about to say is relevant.

1: I will nerf all builds that I make no less than three times before you have to face them.

2: I will only have one adversary that heavily uses shadow magic, and if so, he may not have any of the following: Invisible spell, shadow weave related feats, gnome illusionist, he may not have a castle made entirely out of illusions and or shadow conjured objects etc, and he may especially not use all of the above to make a cubicle maze of varyingly real walls around the PCs house.

3: I will never use riddles.

4: I will never incorporate a DMPC.

5: Custom made NPC enemies will be counted as 1.5 times the standard assumed CR.

6: I will not plan out plots or gambits longer than 2 hand written pages for the villains, even if they would be totally in character. (Later erratad to especially if it would be totally in character.)

7: Do anything that irritates me too much, and the above is null and void. Especially the last portion of number 2.

Oslecamo
2009-12-21, 12:06 PM
Why would they need to research it? The BBEG probably kept notes.

Yes. Trapped crypted cursed notes at the deepest of his dungeons with a self destruct trigger and disguised as a culinary book in the middle of a hundred other culinary books just in case, not a publication in nine diferent languages with clear ilustrations marketed in the whole kingdom.

Yahzi
2009-12-21, 12:48 PM
Do you DMs have any promises that you make to yourself and your players that you will never break?

My promise is that I will never use a prestige class, spell, or feat, that I would deny my players if they qualify for it.
Same here - my NPCs use the same rules they do.

I also promise them I will never fudge a die roll to save their lives. However, I cheat on that one when they're not looking. :smallbiggrin:

aivanther
2009-12-21, 12:58 PM
Why would they need to research it? The BBEG probably kept notes.

Evil Overlord Rule #158

I will exchange the labels on my folder of top-secret plans and my folder of family recipes. Imagine the hero's surprise when he decodes the stolen plans and finds instructions for Grandma's Potato Salad.

Rixx
2009-12-21, 01:42 PM
The rules will never work to the detriment of the story.

Similarly, the rules will not be used when the result is a foregone conclusion.

Ormagoden
2009-12-21, 04:53 PM
I shalt always make sure the players are engaged
I shalt always make sure the players are having fun
I shalt always make sure I am having fun
I shalt never bring to bare Illithid monks against the party
I shalt respect my player and my host
I shalt not covet thy player's GF
I shalt not break for more than one minute in making a rules decision
I shalt not start a campaign unless I intend to finish it
I shalt not allow characters created with or rules from the TOB
I shalt not allow any player to play a truenamer
I shalt grant EXP for bringing me food
I shalt grant EXP for making the campaign a better place
I shalt grant EXP if pudding comes out of my nose
I shalt not take a nap when the players begin "planning"
I shalt not allow cyberzombies
I shalt use cyber ninjas as little as possible
I shalt not allow vehicle creation using Rigger 3
I shalt not allow my players to "own a laser"
I shalt have mushrooms and extra cheese
I shalt make subtle references that the players are in the latest twilight/lordoftherings/starwars/pixar movie until I feel they are finally paying attention again

CockroachTeaParty
2009-12-21, 05:01 PM
The only promise I make my players is this:

I will never fudge the dice, for good or ill.

The rest of this pretty much can be filed under 'Rule 0.'

Delwugor
2009-12-21, 05:27 PM
My only promise is that I will do my best to ensure the group is having a good time with my campaign and gaming sessions.

My only demand on the players is that they tell me if they are not having a good time and suggest ways to improve it.

My one internal promise is to try and give my players what they want, but never to do it in a way they expect.

Saintheart
2009-12-21, 07:00 PM
About my only rule is that, first and foremost, I am a servant to the players. I am their means of having a good time. If they have a good, enjoyable session, I am equal to the finest DMs who have ever lived, because I have achieved the primary purpose behind every rulebook ever composed. :smallbiggrin:

Sila Prirode
2009-12-21, 07:09 PM
If you die, it was your fault, I often have enemies/NPCs that are completely disproportionate power wise to the PCs (both ways) and this can lead to high lethality, but the choice to get involved with these things, and whether to risk death in how they engage them in always theirs and there are always multiple other options.

I'll always say yes, but be warned... I'm the DM, and I actually know what I'm doing. If *you* can do something, I can do it a thousand times better.

It's like you stole the words from my mouth :smallconfused: That was, from letter to letter, what I meant to say.

Satyr
2009-12-21, 07:19 PM
I will stay true to my campaign. I will not compromise my idea of a good game for the wishes of any players. I will treat everybody equal, and fair,but in my games, I am the primus inter pares. I will give my best to make sure that the campaign I run is the best I can come up at the moment, based on what I feel is the best. I will always favor the interest of the group as whole over the singular interest of any single player, including myself, but I will also always favor drama and an interesting story over superficial fun. I will treat the camaign with respect, and try to make it an outstanding experience. I will not abide shallow entertainment for solely entertainment purposes, nor will I make bad jokes to lighten up the mood. I try to keep as concentrated as i can and I will never expect anyone to contribute more to the game than mysef, or less then necessary. I will listen to your criticism and if it makes sense, I will try to use it to make the campaign better, but the place for criticism is not during the game session. I will try my best to keep the standards of the game high.
If you are willing to get involved in a roleplaying game that takes itself serious, and maybe too serious at a time, you are wellcome. If you just want to have careless fun, look elsewhere.

Gamerlord
2009-12-21, 07:22 PM
1. Kill the PCs in as cruel and painful- but fair, way.

Krazddndfreek
2009-12-21, 07:24 PM
Why would they need to research it? The BBEG probably kept notes.

My BBEG would have eaten them.

9mm
2009-12-21, 07:46 PM
I shalt not allow characters created with or rules from the TOB



WHY?!?


also my rule is simple:

everything is open; however, I know I am a better optimizer then you; if I have to work to keep things balanced, I will not hold back.

Talyn
2009-12-22, 02:29 PM
Interesting...

I am definitely a fan of "if you die, it is your fault or your bad luck." (Like the poor warlord who forgot he wasn't a tank, rushed a position filled with elven archers, and died a pincushion...)

I will reward good roleplaying by making you a bigger part of the story, with all the attendant benefits and drawbacks.

I will reward clever ideas with circumstantial modifiers, or, if I can't think of any, an action point.

So long as the PCS are paying attention, I will do everything I can to keep them entertained.

I will play my monsters as smart as they ought to be. Gelatinous cubes will not make intelligent tactical decisions, but hobgoblins certainly will.

I will make my game newbie-friendly. I will recruit my veteran players to assist me in doing so.

I will do my best to let the players feel like Big Damn Heroes, should they choose to try to be.

I reserve the right to say "no," but I am willing to be persuaded on any point. Game balance is important to me, but so is player free will.

Zaq
2009-12-22, 03:41 PM
I will make sure that no party member feels useless. You may not always be useful in the way you want to be, but if you work with me, there will be something for you to do.

I endeavor to make the game fun for everyone. However, if you feel that you are not getting enough spotlight time, it is your responsibility to let me know how you feel. Once you let me know how you feel, I will take steps to accommodate you, but I will not presume to know your comfort level. If you're taking a backseat role and don't say anything, I will assume that you are happy there.

Ormagoden
2010-01-11, 02:17 PM
WHY?!?

Because I dislike it. There are plenty of other wonderful ways to build a character.

Sipex
2010-01-11, 02:19 PM
I made the promise that they can suggest any solution to a problem and as long as it's do-able I'll consider it, they can try it and they'll get bonus exp for it.

Crow
2010-01-11, 02:24 PM
1. Everybody is included, everybody has fun.

2. I restrict my options to Core + MM1-4.

3. If the players can do it, so can the bad guys (only exception to #2).

4. Use whatever options you like, just run it by me first.

5. Always say yes to #4, unless the option is obviously broken.

drengnikrafe
2010-01-11, 03:53 PM
My rules are something similar to the following:

1. If you rolled a 20, you succeed. I don't care how stupid or amazing it is, if it can be handled in a single check, or maybe even 3, you succeed.

2. If you play as a silly race, you must A) run it by me first, and B) be prepared to roleplay it effectively. If you fail either, be expected to encounter problems.

3. If you try to do something silly, I will warn you once, possibly twice. If you fail to get the hint and die, it's not my fault.

4. I will save your life if you have plot armor. If I see you are invested in the character, they will have their life arbitrarily saved from something that would otherwise kill them somewhere between 1 and 3 times, depending on how engaging the backstory is. No backstory, no lifesavers.

5. Any member may invite a newbie for up to 3 sessions without review. After the third session, the main group of gamers must deliberate on whether or not to allow them back. If they are a good success, they can join the main group. We may kick a main gamer out without their knowledge if the vote is unanimous and the reason is good. Without either, we need to talk it over with them.

6. Anyone who does something worthy of extreme notice will be awarded a die from the DM (me) that corresponds to their activity. The only exception was when one of my players took up the stead of DMing, I gave him his own set.

7. Feel free to ask any questions. If there is no good answer, you will be told there is no good answer.

8. The DM may have no more than 2 "Story-pauses" per session. If the PCs do something outragous, the DM may use a story-pause to leave to room, or do whatever else necessary within 10 minutes to prepare something functional enough to work with.

9. If the players were really good, they get waffles. Yum, waffles.

Swordgleam
2010-01-11, 04:16 PM
If it's cool, you can make a reasonably logical explanation for why you can do it, and I don't think it will ruin anyone else's fun, it happens.

Of course, this is why we now have two souls in the same body, a human paladin and a tiefling sorc (they were originally twin brothers) carrying the frozen heart of the dragonborn fighter who is now a sorrowsworn devoted to protecting the cleric, who now owns an entire tribe of goblins. And I don't even pretend to understand why the ranger is now a wolf. The amnesiac doppelganger feylock who worships Melora and wields a handgun, on the other hand, never gives me any trouble.

Wait, you mean this game has rules? For like, what classes and races can do and stuff? I think I was using that book as something to keep the battlemap level.

onthetown
2010-01-11, 04:30 PM
I don't DM very often... Mostly online, and once IRL with a close friend just to see if I could do it... But since I'm so often a player, I know exactly what my pet peeve is and I would never force a player to stay in a situation that they absolutely can't get out of. If you get into it, I'll give you a way to get out of it... even if it isn't not blatantly obvious what that way is. This worked REALLY well with that friend of mine, who got into a lot of trouble...

Crow
2010-01-11, 04:38 PM
I forgot #6.

If you keep your laptop and iphone away from the table, I'll keep Dming. Otherwise, I'm done.

Jayabalard
2010-01-11, 04:42 PM
Why would they need to research it? The BBEG probably kept notes.nah, you know those BBEG's, they never keep anything in writing. They wouldn't want their henchmen to be able to do away with them and do the ritual in their place

Swordgleam
2010-01-11, 04:42 PM
I forgot #6.

If you keep your laptop and iphone away from the table, I'll keep Dming. Otherwise, I'm done.

Seconded! I don't understand DMs who let their players use - or assume their players are using - laptops. Any given room in a house offers enough distraction as it is.

onthetown
2010-01-11, 04:46 PM
I have mine open because it has all my spells on it, but I just keep it sitting on the couch where I can just glance over at it. My sheets don't have enough room for all the spells I buy. He doesn't mind as long as I'm not fiddling around on it, but as I said, I just keep it where I can look for reference.

Longcat
2010-01-11, 05:02 PM
I have only one promise for my players:

PAIN




However, as for DMing guidelines, I usually adhere to this:
1. Everything goes, as long as everyone's roughly on the same tier and no infinite loops are involved.
2. Encounters will be appropriate challenges for the power level of the party. If you're playing Monks&Fighters, the enemies will be T4-5. If you're playing Artificer, Wizard & Druid, then expect the Scry&Die T1 Caster squad to come your way.
3. Anything you use, I shall use too. Anything character options I use, are open to you as well.
4. Any complaints about DMPCs will result in you (the player) being shot through both kneecaps and sold to the organ mafia.

arguskos
2010-01-11, 05:10 PM
Rule #1: I will never arbitrarily kill you. You always have a way out, likely, lots of them, in fact, almost certainly more than I have thought out.

Rule #2: You get a single warning when you are about to do something moronic. I'll ask "are you sure that's a good idea?" If you persist, I'll permit it, and you'll probably end up dying horribly, because it was stupid. Sometimes this pays off though, it's your call.

Rule #3: I permit nigh-everything, but you need to clear everything by me first. I can op better than my entire party combined, and we all know it. I'm happy to improve your character, or find someone who can help me improve it, but you need to ask first.

Rule #4: I reward good, consistent roleplaying. Be a character, not a character sheet.

I never break these four rules.

jokey665
2010-01-11, 05:20 PM
stuff about laptops being bad

3/5 of my current players use a laptop at the table because they use electronic character sheets (A sheet that I made, actually). Considering we're currently at 20th level and only going higher, characters can be very complicated and need a lot of information readily available. Especially the Druid, who needs access to basically all of the monsters in the SRD for wildshape/summoning. It doesn't hinder our game at all.

arguskos
2010-01-11, 05:27 PM
3/5 of my current players use a laptop at the table because they use electronic character sheets (A sheet that I made, actually). Considering we're currently at 20th level and only going higher, characters can be very complicated and need a lot of information readily available. Especially the Druid, who needs access to basically all of the monsters in the SRD for wildshape/summoning. It doesn't hinder our game at all.
Oh yeah, this was something I had a thought about as well.

I personally as a DM always use a laptop. I have too much data to track without it. If I was invited to a table and wasn't permitted my laptop for my character, I'd probably decline, just cause it's amazingly useful for reference and whatnot.

Oh, and several members of my group use their laptops. It's never really been an issue we couldn't solve with a "hey, guys, can we focus on the game please?"

Swordgleam
2010-01-11, 05:43 PM
3/5 of my current players use a laptop at the table because they use electronic character sheets (A sheet that I made, actually). Considering we're currently at 20th level and only going higher, characters can be very complicated and need a lot of information readily available. Especially the Druid, who needs access to basically all of the monsters in the SRD for wildshape/summoning. It doesn't hinder our game at all.

I guess I feel like if you can't keep track of what your character can do, you shouldn't build your character that way. It'll make play clunky if you're always looking stuff up, and take you out of the game.

My Iron Heroes man-at-arms can access nearly every feat in the book, but I just have a cheatsheet of the ones he's most likely to use. Why not do the same for monsters?

Tyndmyr
2010-01-11, 05:49 PM
Do you DMs have any promises that you make to yourself and your players that you will never break?

Players and bad guys have the same rules. If a house rule is in play for one, it's in play for all.

I will never use DMPCs.

There will never be only one way to solve a challenge.

If a die can be rolled in the open, I will roll it in the open. Concerns about fudging dice do not exist, and mortality is considered quite real.

A player can try absolutely anything he can think up. It's my job to find the rules for it.

I will not create anything, anywhere, so powerful that the PCs can break the game if they steal it. Let's face it, they might.

I will adapt the campaign to the players. If they decide to spend five and a half hours on a bar crawl, like they did last night, leading to wildly unexpected adventures, they are welcome to do so. It's my job to keep enough material on hand to improv off of regardless of what happens.

If in doubt, use RAW.

I will not use riddles.

I will not use disjunction.

If it's in an official book, you can use it.

Swordgleam
2010-01-11, 05:55 PM
I will not use riddles.

I've seen this a couple times. Is this a good thing? I've always felt bad that I suck at coming up with riddles and therefore never use them.

Dr Bwaa
2010-01-11, 05:59 PM
If you use it your enemies will use it too someday... :smallbiggrin:

A minor rule of mine related to this is "I won't use Disjunction until the party does. Then, I get to use it once."

Other rules:
I will always use the same rules as the PCs are subject to.
All rolls are made in the open.
I will use my incredibly fair steel dice to DM with, not the high-rollers I play with :smallbiggrin:
You must have a character, with a personality and a background.
You must role-play this character at all times, rather then only when it is convenient.
If you can justify it (really justify it), you can have it (feat, PrC, etc).
If you're doing something overpowered with your character, you'd better damn well role-play its effects/downsides (even things like taking flaws, etc).
Rule of Cool supersedes Rule 0 in nearly every instance.
Logical thinking supersedes RAW in nearly every instance. That said, all logic that could change game rules must be recognized as valid by all members of the group, or the rules stand as they are.
I'm not going to coddle you. Your actions have consequences.
But, the consequences will be logical. If you do a great job killing the Lord of the Realm quietly and without anyone knowing it was you, all the guards in the next city you stop at will not automatically have +30 circumstance bonuses to their Sense Motive skills.
I will not use anything unstattable against the PCs.
I won't coddle my pet NPCs, either.
You get one warning if you're about to do something stupid (per stupid thing, to some upper bound on stupidity-warnings in one session). Then, you're on your own.
I will not use the rules (or lack thereof) to limit the PCs' creativity. If they want to try something, they will simply tell me what they're going to try to do, and I will adjudicate it fairly.
The above rule can be taken to whatever extremes the players prefer. I am happy to homebrew with players to create the characters they want.
Your laptop is fine at the table exactly until I feel it is detracting from the experience for you, me, or anyone else. Then it is put to the side.

Boci
2010-01-11, 06:02 PM
Because I dislike it. There are plenty of other wonderful ways to build a character.

But what if a player wants to use ToB.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-11, 06:05 PM
I've seen this a couple times. Is this a good thing? I've always felt bad that I suck at coming up with riddles and therefore never use them.

Well, there's a few problems with them. Mostly that it's really, really hard to correctly gauge difficulty. Either they are ridiculously easy, or they are sufficiently ambiguous that a great many answers could apply.

The first is pointless. The second degenerates into "Guess the word the DM is thinking of".

So, I suggest if you want a puzzle, avoiding riddles in general. It's just easier.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-11, 06:07 PM
A minor rule of mine related to this is "I won't use Disjunction until the party does. Then, I get to use it once."


I probably wouldn't even do it then. I'd just describe the loot as it failed it's save. Possibly mention the value in passing. I suspect this would solve the problem forever. My players are greedy buggers.

The Dark Fiddler
2010-01-11, 06:08 PM
To players: "If you try something broken, don't be surprised if the laws of the world don't feel like letting you. Sure, try Pun-Pun. Be ready to die from the amount of power you now have."

To both players and myself, written as if telling players and based off a real event: "If you want to be a jackass, it's not my fault that you forgot about the angel watching over the Paladin, and it's not my fault you didn't know it was a Solar."

Dr Bwaa
2010-01-11, 06:10 PM
To players: "If you try something broken, don't be surprised if the laws of the world don't feel like letting you. Sure, try Pun-Pun. Be ready to die from the amount of power you now have."

Yeah, I forgot to add this one.

"You want to start chain-gating solars? Well, every deity in the multiverse is going to notice that, and at least a couple of them are going to be pissed... but good luck!"


I probably wouldn't even do it then. I'd just describe the loot as it failed it's save. Possibly mention the value in passing. I suspect this would solve the problem forever. My players are greedy buggers.

I tell my players this rule up-front. So far, it's been enough of a threat to keep them from trying it. :smallbiggrin:

BRC
2010-01-11, 06:16 PM
1. If an NPC assists the party in combat for more than one round, the players get direct control.
2. I am not allowed to use zombies.
3. No sending the party up against sorcerers specifically built to counter them.
4. Yes I know far more about the rules than my players, no, that does not give me the right or the privilege to have them surrounded by invisible uberchargers.

Longcat
2010-01-11, 06:16 PM
Oh, another thing I'd like to add, since our current game uses round-robbin' DMs:

If you do it, I'll do it too.

Boy, does it suck to being forced to run DMPCs as a countermeasure to other DMPCs. Feels like sitting on a pile of nukes :smallcool:

drengnikrafe
2010-01-11, 07:04 PM
I forgot #6.

If you keep your laptop and iphone away from the table, I'll keep Dming. Otherwise, I'm done.

I can't believe I forgot my rule similar to this.

Rule 10: If your shiney object is helping you play in almost any way, it can stay. If your shiney object is distracting the group, it goes in a bag. You can have it back at the end of the session.

DabblerWizard
2010-01-11, 08:38 PM
.... Either they are ridiculously easy, or they are sufficiently ambiguous that a great many answers could apply.

The first is pointless. The second degenerates into "Guess the word the DM is thinking of".

So, I suggest if you want a puzzle, avoiding riddles in general. It's just easier.

In regards to riddles... If my players suggest a term that could reasonably apply to the riddle I've presented, and I see that they've been working on it for a while, then I say they've solved the riddle. There's no reason to hold up the game waiting for players to find the exact word you wanted. In this way, you can still use riddles, without being obnoxious about it.



Making sure all my players are enjoying themselves, is my most important guideline with myself.

OldTrees
2010-01-11, 10:58 PM
Disclaimer: I am still new to DMing [7 years], but here are my rules as of now.


Even as a DM I can be wrong
I am there (as a DM) to work toward the players having fun.
All my custom npcs have +1-3 CR depending on Optimization,Int&Wis Scores and ranks in Knowledge(Strategy&Tactics)
Leadership is allowed in place of a feat at or after 6th ECL
I will not design an ecounter/trap that renders a PC useless if it could be reasonably foreseen to do so.
If I feel something is balance when designing a PC then that will hold for when I am DMing
All WOTC source material is allowed if I have a chance to review/memorize it.
WOTC material might be nerfed if too powerful and if the player capitalizes on its power.
Third party material is judged on a source by source basis. One unreasonably overpowered option will invalidate the source.
I will have a reason for every ruling and an explaintion for the physics of the world{note: not necessarily real world physics}
My first method of balancing will be to buff the underdogs with player/DM arranged thematic buffs.

jokey665
2010-01-11, 11:25 PM
Third party material is judged on a source by source basis. One unreasonably overpowered option will invalidate the source.


If everything else in the source is balanced, this seems unfair. Why not just ban the single option in question and allow the rest of them? To be honest, I'd be upset at this. If I asked for some random flavorful-but-slightly-underpowered feat or something, and the book has some crazy powerful PrC in it, you'd say no? Yeah, I wouldn't play with you.

Why don't you hold WotC books to this? "Oh, you want to play a fighter? Sorry, they're from the book that has wizards and they're too powerful."

Fiery Diamond
2010-01-11, 11:50 PM
1. I will tell you my house rules before you create your characters, and I will not change or add to them except under three circumstances:
A-We mutually decide they need changes or that we need new rules.
B-After reviewing the rules, I discover a change needs to be made. In this case, I will allow you to make any changes to your character that may be desired because of this change in rules.
C-Ad hoc rules are required. Sometimes these will be one-time things, other times they will become the standard for similar situations...usually the latter.

2. You are restricted to Core. If you want to use something outside of core, run it by me. I'll usually say yes. If I say no, we might work on a way to alter the non-core thing you want so that it is acceptable to me.

3. I homebrew a lot. Metagaming to determine enemy type or class level of foes is risky business.

4. I don't usually plan out everything. I make up quite a bit on the spot. This means that I'm more flexible if you throw a curveball at me, so don't sweat it.

5. I encourage creativity. Surprise me; I like it. I'll reward clever or interesting ideas or actions, even if they aren't the best choices. However, don't deliberately do dumb things, or there will be repercussions.

6. Don't try to break the game, or Rocks will Fall.

7. Chaotic Neutral is fine. Chaotic Stupid is not. Evil characters are disallowed unless I have evidence you can do them really, really well. You're the HEROES.

8. The game will be heavy in roleplay and in combat. Good roleplay is rewarded.

9. YOU drive the plot of the game. It doesn't "revolve around you," you MAKE it revolve. I come up with ideas for plot based on what happens in the sessions.

10. If you deliberately cheat, I will kick you out. If you are disruptive, I will talk to you ... and if you keep being disruptive, I will kick you out.

11. We're here to have fun...everything else takes back seat to that.

Glimbur
2010-01-12, 12:02 AM
1) I will try to help as many people have fun as possible.

2) Actions in game will have consequences in game. I won't stop you from killing the king after asking for a private conference with him, but it won't be as easy to get away with as you think.

3) I will ask y'all what you like, and try to include more of that next session.

4) If you get away from the path I have planned, I reserve the right to make things up as I go.

So far it has worked out pretty well.

Duos Greanleef
2010-01-12, 02:45 PM
This is a bit of a multi-pointed question.
1) is there a generally approved-of list of "unwritten rules of D&D/any other RPG" and if so where can I find it?
2) What is YOUR rule 0? Maybe 1, 2, & 3 as well.

For me, the rules are:
0: Everyone have fun.
1: I am DM, hear me roar... fairly.
2: Don't like rule 1, see rule 3.
3: Rocks fall. Everyone dies... fairly.
:smalltongue:

Gamerlord
2010-01-12, 02:49 PM
The unwritten rule is "Never trust a DM"

Rules of me:
0: I am never to be trusted
1:I will find a way to kill your character
2.: In as fair a way as possible

Noble Savant
2010-01-12, 02:57 PM
Rule 0: Screw the players, I'm the DM.

Rule 1: I will stay in the rules while screwing you over.

Rule 2: As an extension to rule 1, anything that moves the plot forward or I think is cool is within the rules.

Indoran
2010-01-12, 03:03 PM
This is a bit of a multi-pointed question.
1) is there a generally approved-of list of "unwritten rules of D&D/any other RPG" and if so where can I find it?
2) What is YOUR rule 0? Maybe 1, 2, & 3 as well.

For me, the rules are:
0: Everyone have fun.
1: I am DM, hear me roar... fairly.
2: Don't like rule 1, see rule 3.
3: Rocks fall. Everyone dies... fairly.
:smalltongue:

Rule 0. Everyone should have fun, in order to achieve that, don't get near any egomaniac DM (specially if he is into sakura card captors... that should raise a flag if he is 20 something :P btw... I once met a DM that was just like that)

Now when it comes to me as a DM...
Rule 1. I am the DM, I may be wrong sometimes, but if there is a judgement call just trust me and I won't get angry at you and my subconscious won't need to plot to get your PC killed.

Rule 2. Again Trust me... I am there to have fun and make you have fun, it's D&D dying is not the end of everything... may as well be a new beginning...

Rule 3. Forget about your houserules, if you play WITH ME it's Rules as Interpreted by Me and I will be kind enough as to have a document with lots of houserules if you ask for it... And if you listened with attention to the first session I already explained them all...

Oslecamo
2010-01-12, 03:03 PM
0. I am the Law! And I'll follow it.
1. Chaos is dices.
2. If you pull out a gun, I can pull out a bigger one.
3. The world is neither fair or an easy place to live, but...
4. Amuse me and the group, and you will live and prosper.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-12, 03:05 PM
0: Have Fun.

1: Trust nobody. Especially the shifty-eyed DM.

2: The rules are the rules, and they apply to everyone equally.

OldTrees
2010-01-12, 03:12 PM
If everything else in the source is balanced, this seems unfair. Why not just ban the single option in question and allow the rest of them? To be honest, I'd be upset at this. If I asked for some random flavorful-but-slightly-underpowered feat or something, and the book has some crazy powerful PrC in it, you'd say no? Yeah, I wouldn't play with you.

Why don't you hold WotC books to this? "Oh, you want to play a fighter? Sorry, they're from the book that has wizards and they're too powerful."

The reason I have this temporary rule is that I am still inexperienced in judging the power level of options. (I did say unreasonably overpowered) As such I estimate third party material by its peers. If I find something that seems unreasonably powerful then I don't trust my estimation of the rest of the material and don't allow it until the player gives reasonable evidence that I should allow it. (rule 1 Even as a DM I can be wrong)

I don't hold Wotc to this because I read enough posts online about the material that I think I can remember what was shown to be over/under powered. (Again rule 1: Even as a DM I can be wrong)

Something else that I might not have communicated is what I view as unreasonable. Since I am allowing all Wotc material and try to buff the underdogs instead of nerf the powerful (when possible), my definition of unreasonably overpowered would be up in the gamebreaking effects as standard procedure. (I am fine with the least of the gamebreaking effects used rarely as last options)

Additionally for flavor options, I find using material as inspiration and then talking with the DM to design something more creative fits the motive better.

Toliudar
2010-01-12, 03:24 PM
0: That which helps everyone have fun is an absolute good.
1: Being screwed over by the universe in the short term is occasionally good for morale. Being able to take revenge on the universe is better.
2: The rules provide an excellent common vocabulary for the interaction of our imaginations. When the rules start getting in the way of our imaginations, adjust the rules.
3: The game fits into our lives. Our lives don't get in the way of the game.

Dogmantra
2010-01-12, 03:25 PM
The unwritten rule is "Never trust a DM"

Rules of me:
0: I am never to be trusted
1:I will find a way to kill your character
2.: In as fair a way as possible

But...
But...
I'm in your PbP!
:smalleek:

Gamerlord
2010-01-12, 03:27 PM
But...
But...
I'm in your PbP!
:smalleek:

Technically, by that I mean "I will make the encounters as challenging as possible"not "I will kill your character"

Saph
2010-01-12, 03:31 PM
My primary "house rules" are:

1. Don't be a jerk.
2. It's your responsibility to get on with the rest of the party.
3. If something isn't rules-legal but makes sense and is reasonable, you can do it. The reverse also applies.

soir8
2010-01-12, 03:34 PM
Rule 0: Things happen because I say so.
Rule 1: Players can feel free to try and mess up the story as much as they like.
Rule 2: But it won't work, because what I never tell them is I make it all up as I go along! Muahahah!
Rule 4: No, you can't slight of hand a baby.

Stegyre
2010-01-12, 03:37 PM
0. Players are here to have fun, not to get screwed in a Tomb of Horrors-esque death trap (unless that happens to be there definition of fun).

1. The rules are the same for me as they are for you, and vice-versa.

2. As DM, it is my prerogative to interpret and apply the rules. You may disagree with my interpretation, but it is still the one that applies.

3. The only death traps will be those that you make for yourself; however . . .

4. . . . just because you encounter it does not mean there is a way to beat it: sometimes, the correct strategy is run away.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-12, 03:41 PM
Rule 4: No, you can't slight of hand a baby.

Nobody listen to his despicable lies!

Green Bean
2010-01-12, 03:43 PM
Rule 0: Don't be a jerk.

Bayar
2010-01-12, 03:49 PM
Rule 0: Dont break any rule from the following lists: 1001 things the worst party in Eberron is not allowed to do, Things that Mr Welsh is not allowed to do, Things that Skippy is not allowed to do, Things that Mr Raymond is not allowed to do as a DM, The things I'm not allowed to do while gaming (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29508) list.

Rule -1: Have fun.

Rule 1: I'm still the DM.

drengnikrafe
2010-01-12, 03:50 PM
Rule 0: Go for it. You can always roll on it, and you always have at least a 5% chance of success.

Rule 1: Your backstory is your plot armor. Without it, I won't save your sorry behind if it gets into trouble.

Rule 2: I will follow all other rules as I see fit. Most things are by the rules, but the piles of houserules are more important. Most are for player benefit.

Stompy
2010-01-12, 03:56 PM
Rule 0: If everyone is having fun, then that is all that matters. It doesn't matter how intellectual the plot is.

Rule 1: I will fudge things to make my prep and the game go faster, be more enjoyable, and make it funnier.

Rule 2: Hell, I probably didn't have much of a plot planned out before DMing this game :smallbiggrin:.

soir8
2010-01-12, 04:01 PM
Nobody listen to his despicable lies!


To be fair, I eventually let him try. He failed and got a bollocking from the party leader about it. After an entire adventure's worth of similar antics, his character was ambushed on the way home and sodomised to death by orcs. The fact that he was a halfling made the experience even more horrifying :smallbiggrin:

Rixx
2010-01-12, 04:11 PM
Don't give the DM ideas!

Drascin
2010-01-12, 04:11 PM
I'm a pretty simple man.

Rule 0: Rule of Cool.
Rule 0b: RAW is not a compelling argument in this table. Awesome, on the other hand, may very well be.
Rule 1: Don't be an ass. We're here to have fun.

Those are my core rules. There are, however, another couple axioms I tend to use, and actually tell my players upfront.

- "Law of Lenient Fate": I will try to not kill your character, since we're making a story, and stories tend to suffer by continuous changing of the main cast. Please do not try to take advantage of this by acting stupidly suicidal, or I will change my mind.
- "Did you bring enough of that powergaming for everyone, mister?": I do not actually mind if you make strong characters, as long as they're not utterly broken and the whole group is about the same power level. Hence, if you want the chance to play a strong character, go and help the newbies of the group.

Shademan
2010-01-12, 04:12 PM
screw the rules I have money!

srsly:
rule zero: RESPECT MY AUTHOROTAA'!

Tyndmyr
2010-01-12, 04:16 PM
To be fair, I eventually let him try. He failed and got a bollocking from the party leader about it. After an entire adventure's worth of similar antics, his character was ambushed on the way home and sodomised to death by orcs. The fact that he was a halfling made the experience even more horrifying :smallbiggrin:

I had a rogue "rescue" a dozen baby kobolds from an orphanage(I like screwing with them when they kill things on sight due to race). To keep them safe from combat, he stashed them in his bag of holding. He then forgot about then for a coupla days.

Now, his bag of holding is in desperate need of a cleaning....but he wont dump them, and has begun to find amusement in slight of handing them into odd places.

bosssmiley
2010-01-12, 04:17 PM
0: The rules serve the game, not vice versa
1: Argue the toss after the session
2: Cunning is acceptable, being a jerk is not
3: Anything you can do to the enemy, the DM can do to you...harder

Zadus
2010-01-12, 04:21 PM
rule 0: Giver

It's worked really well.

subject42
2010-01-12, 04:38 PM
I shalt grant EXP if pudding comes out of my nose



I shall grant EVEN MORE xp if I wasn't eating pudding at the time.

Lioness
2010-01-12, 04:54 PM
Rule 0: The DM's significant other is always right
Rule 1: The DM is always right

We keep it simple, and often ignore those rules. Especially when wrong.

Sintanan
2010-01-12, 05:34 PM
Rule 0: RAW doesn't work. Expect house rules.
Rule 1: The house rules must be obeyed.
Rule 2: I make the house rules.
Rule 3: You do the math.

:smallbiggrin:

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-01-12, 05:46 PM
Rule 0: Don't be a jerk.

Rule 1: What the book says, goes. If we can't figure out what the book says within a brief (read, minute, maybe two) amount of time, whatever the DM says goes until after game.

Rule 2: RAW can be silly, really, really, silly. We'll use that as a base, but, if something is nut-bustingly awesome but not quite RAW, default to Rules as Make Awesome. (Most, if not all, of the group should be in agreement on this.)

Rule 3: Don't give the DM ideas. However, if suffering together is better than suffering alone.

Longcat
2010-01-12, 06:34 PM
Oh, another important rule:

Rule 0: Never ask me to allow homebrewed material if there's a RAW way of doing it.

Rule 0.1: Unless said RAW really really sucks. And even then, it's not guaranteed.

Otodetu
2010-01-12, 09:45 PM
even if you have the notes there is still some research required to understand them exactly, or would you use anything a bbeg has left without exactly knowing what will happen? :smallbiggrin:

Perhaps the second page of the notes is completly false and will transport you directly to asmodeus or somesuch :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

I would like the players to understand the notes of a person that never intended this to be viewed publicly, it is basically a draft, a chaotic one at that, and the person has used a lot of time and effort to put his mind into this, sort of like a new programming language.

Glyde
2010-01-13, 01:54 AM
I'll never intentionally put my players up against a fight they cannot possibly survive. This includes situations where the solution is arbitrary and only I know it - It's gotta be something I can expect them to get out of somehow.


'Course, a lot of the time they use a solution I don't expect - which is even better.

Pharaoh's Fist
2010-01-13, 01:58 AM
I will destroy those who oppose me and rule with an iron fist.

Temotei
2010-01-13, 01:59 AM
I will destroy those who oppose me and rule with an iron fist.

But that's a terrible feat. :smallannoyed:

dsmiles
2010-01-13, 08:11 AM
I will destroy those who oppose me and rule with an iron fist.

Don't you mean a Pharoah's Fist?

Alex Ashgrave
2010-01-23, 12:43 AM
My current DM always promises to kill us all.

We (the players) found that means even if powergaming while ignoring the RaW guidelines as written, such as spell and trap descriptions in favour of his own while putting us up against monsters/traps WAAAAY above us power wise while targeting a player he wants dead specifically (cause they're "Too powerful")-and making sure when this happens we have no option but to stand and fight be butchered just pull through thanks to luck and our power gamer-who's only plays that way so we avoid a TPK.

I wish I was joking. Makes me yearn for one of the two good dms we have to run something-anything. Hell, Tomb of Horrors, PLEASE. Would be like a vacation.

He also promises It'll be fun. It always is. (For him.)

Anyways.
When I did DM (A short stint) "I promise to: Make sure I am a fair judge. And ensure everyone is having fun."

My new one (should I ever DM again) "I promise : Not to be a be a total jerk-***."
:smallamused:

(Edit) I also promise to spellcheck before submitting-unless I am extremely tired.:smalltongue:

Tyndmyr
2010-01-23, 12:53 AM
-and making sure when this happens we have no option but to stand and fight be butchered just pull through thanks to luck and our power gamer-who's only plays that way so we avoid a TPK.


Yeah...I've seen this happen before. It's not to blame for every power gamer, sure...but I've definitely taken up power gaming as a means of character preservation, and I've seen others do it.

Players should feel like they could die, sure. They shouldn't feel like they absolutely will die, no matter what...at least, not in standard D&D, that's call of cthulu stuff there.

Dust
2010-01-23, 01:01 AM
This rule is broken depending on the system (ie; doesn't apply for Call of Cthulhu and Werewolf/Vampire/Changeling), but generally has served me well;

Rule: The PCs are ALWAYS better, more important, and more badass than the NPCs that populate the world, even if the NPCs hold positions of power.

Emmerask
2010-01-23, 03:00 AM
I've seen this a couple times. Is this a good thing? I've always felt bad that I suck at coming up with riddles and therefore never use them.

Riddles can be fun especially good ones and there aare lots of dedicated rpg sites that have interesting riddles http://www.rpginfo.de/ams/meister/raumratsel/ for example has some really brilliant but hard ones (in german though).

Anyway what you should not do is to make the solving of the riddle the only way to continue the story or quest. Have it as a bonus for the players for items or additional information that makes the quest easier because there is one huge problem with riddles and puzzles:

you never know how long it will take the players to solve them
I once made a cube like puzzle (like in the movie cube) with similar looking rooms that shifted using a pretty easy algorithm the problem which I did not anticipate was that retro engineering the algorithm was pretty hard especially f they didnīt get the clue at the beginning.
my estimate was about 1 maybe 2 hours it took them 6 hours to solve :smallbiggrin:
My first and last attempt to make solving a puzzle a must do to continue the story :smallwink:

But for me puzzles are an important part of any rpg game and I wouldnīt like a campaign without!

Kelb_Panthera
2010-01-23, 03:33 AM
Rule 0: no matter what the goal of the quest, the goal of the game is to have fun.

Rule 1: We'll be starting with RAW and I'll make interpretations as my judgment dictates.

Rule 2: I'll let you do nearly anything you can come up with as long as it doesn't involve time-travel.

Rule 3: I will find the holes in your build and use them to keep things from getting too easy.

Superglucose
2010-01-23, 04:29 AM
I feel that the coolest parts of D&D are the parts where you get to level up and when you find new loot. So as a GM, I promise to keep my PCs at or around WBL and to give them plenty of experience so that leveling up doesn't feel like a rare occurrence.

I also do my best to let the players take charge of the world (within reason). I'm not good enough to run a sandbox, but I'll let them choose sides as often as possible.

I also will not have any plot that has a clear "good" side or a clear "bad" side. The lich-lords you were sent to kill? They're evil and busy trying to assassinate you, but they're trying to stop you because the guy you're working for is going to end up destroying the world if he's not stopped. There is no clear "good" or "bad" in the real world, there should be no clear "good" or "bad" in this world.

Nothing being pure-good and pure-evil doesn't mean there isn't a clear line between the two. Yes, the evil criminal syndicate boss was making sure the children of the town were fed, but at the same time he was still running protection rackets and breaking people's kneecaps. Taking him out is still a decidedly good thing to do and is clearly the right thing. It's just that now you have to deal with the orphans you just generated and the power vacuum.

Epic stories will be epic. You're not a mule service, you don't want to "I like the taste of wolves but hate the foul creatures, go kill 10 of them and bring me their pelts" for 20 levels, you want to feel like you're doing something.

At the same time, you are NOT the most important or powerful people in the world. Your story is one of a million going on at any time. With such a powerful thing as magic, there are threats to destroy the world every day, whether by accident or by malice. What you are doing is important, but it not the most important thing or the only important thing.

Players should reach the end of my plot and think back on all the smoking guns. Even if they don't get the point behind them 100% correct, it's still nice when they see the two flesh golems and go, "Ah, so that's why the wizard was stealing people from their homes!" even if they missed the two humanoid skeletons which were a result of not having quite enough bodies to make a third golem.

pasko77
2010-01-23, 06:49 AM
Given some... disagreement between players, I put a simple rule:

If, by action, inaction or whatever, you damage other party members, you die instantly.

It works, if your players tend to be chaotic stupid.

Beelzebub1111
2010-01-23, 07:09 AM
Given some... disagreement between players, I put a simple rule:

If, by action, inaction or whatever, you damage other party members, you die instantly.

It works, if your players tend to be chaotic stupid.

that's a dumb rule, mistakes happen. I'm sure that you have an in game reason for it, or something.

pasko77
2010-01-23, 07:19 AM
that's a dumb rule, mistakes happen. I'm sure that you have an in game reason for it, or something.

That's not a dumb rule. I did not talk about mistakes. I am not stupid and I know what an exception is.
I talked about players acting like jerks.
The rough translation of the rule is "i'm not allowing jerks at my table".

This rule stopped a fight between two players INSTANTLY and prevented another from being.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-23, 10:53 AM
Given some... disagreement between players, I put a simple rule:

If, by action, inaction or whatever, you damage other party members, you die instantly.

It works, if your players tend to be chaotic stupid.

Hmm, we let our players play chaotic stupid. However, there is likewise no penalty for other players killing you, and it's amazing how distrusted someone who just killed a party member is. This does make it more difficult to work in new members joining, but it has the side effect of everyone in the party wanting to be reasonably popular with most other people, so if push comes to shove, they won't be left to die.

dsmiles
2010-01-23, 11:03 AM
That's not a dumb rule. I did not talk about mistakes. I am not stupid and I know what an exception is.
I talked about players acting like jerks.
The rough translation of the rule is "i'm not allowing jerks at my table".

This rule stopped a fight between two players INSTANTLY and prevented another from being.

So, what you're saying is:

If somebody's character is an @$$hole, and the rest of the party wants him/her dead/otherwise out of the party, they can't get rid of him? Or let him/her die when he/she is at -9 and bleeding out?

Seems kind of dumb to me. I understand player (OoC) issues being nipped in the bud, but what abour character (IC) issues?

dsmiles
2010-01-23, 11:09 AM
you never know how long it will take the players to solve them
I once made a cube like puzzle (like in the movie cube) with similar looking rooms that shifted using a pretty easy algorithm the problem which I did not anticipate was that retro engineering the algorithm was pretty hard especially f they didnīt get the clue at the beginning.
my estimate was about 1 maybe 2 hours it took them 6 hours to solve :smallbiggrin:
My first and last attempt to make solving a puzzle a must do to continue the story :smallwink:

But for me puzzles are an important part of any rpg game and I wouldnīt like a campaign without!

I used a published adventure (twice) that had a riddle as the only way to enter the dungeon. Scrying and teleporting were blocked, and they needed to get into the dungeon to retrieve a powerful artifact, and save the world.

The first party to go through got the riddle in about an hour. The second one (that had more people in it) had to end the session and pick up the next day...:smalleek:

Tyndmyr
2010-01-23, 11:11 AM
I used a published adventure (twice) that had a riddle as the only way to enter the dungeon. Scrying and teleporting were blocked, and they needed to get into the dungeon to retrieve a powerful artifact, and save the world.

The first party to go through got the riddle in about an hour. The second one (that had more people in it) had to end the session and pick up the next day...:smalleek:

Puzzles are good. Riddles are bad, and should be set on fire.

Pharaoh's Fist
2010-01-23, 11:11 AM
I think the important thing is to have a second option when putting a puzzle in front of the player.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-23, 11:13 AM
Setting things on fire is always a second option.

Okay, okay...perhaps not all the time. Sometimes it's the first option.

dsmiles
2010-01-23, 11:17 AM
Setting things on fire is always a second option.

Okay, okay...perhaps not all the time. Sometimes it's the first option.

Yes, because at the right temperature, even stone burns. Not melts, burns...MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
:smallbiggrin:

EDIT: @PF: Like I said, it was a published adventure (Demons and Devils by Swords and Sorcery, RA'S EVIL GRIN adventure). It didn't allow for another option.

Evard
2010-01-23, 12:07 PM
Yeah. I promised my players that anything they can do, the monsters can do too. It generally makes them think twice about trying to break the game.

On the plus side for the players: anything the monsters can do, they can do too.

That is how I deal with Wish :3

Also wizards really if they are going to go all solo and use the party as minions rather than teammates. There was one guy no matter who his character is or alignment he used his teammates as minions and bossed everyone around. The Balor ended up with a counter-spell wizard minion that none of the other PC's even tried to attack lol. In retrospect i think they liked the enemy more so than the party wizard.

Drakevarg
2010-01-23, 12:36 PM
0: I am the DM. As such I cannot break the rules. I am the rules.
1: I will not allow any source book that do not meet the following conditions;
- I have read it and approved of its use.
- I currently have that book in meatspace with me.
2: I will not allow any homebrews that were not either made by me, or made by one of the players and approved by me.
3: My players are always answerable to a higher power.
4: You may not kill a god. Seriously, it won't work. They don't even have character sheets, as simply listing every stat as "infinity" would waste too much paper.
5: Keep in mind that while you can't kill a god, killing an epic-level spellcaster who claims to be a god is entirely possible, though not recommended.
6: I will try not make use of Deus ex Machina. I will, however, do so if the current scenario makes the continuation of the plot impossible.
7: I will not railroad you. But if you unhinge my plot the universe will still be cranky about it for a while. This will not involve railroading, it will only involve life becoming more difficult. Mainly because I'd likely be making it up as I go along.
8: As the PCs get stronger, the enemies around them that are capable of doing so will enter an arms race against them. It's not because they fear the PCs, its because the PCs are disaster magnets and will heighten the enemies' standards simply by being nearby. As such, don't expect to be the toughest guys in town. Ever.
9: The guard does not have ADD. They will remember if you were rioting and looting on the streets last week and WILL punish you for it. Just because you got away doesn't mean you're in the clear.
10: If I don't have any ideas for a session, don't press me. It will end badly.

Emmerask
2010-01-23, 02:04 PM
Puzzles are good. Riddles are bad, and should be set on fire.

just a little clartification for me

riddles are word and or number "puzzles" and puzzles are for the most part with some interaction with the environment? (english is not my mother tongue and Iīm not 100% sure about the distinction between the two)

If my assumption is correct I do agree ^^