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Allanimal
2009-12-21, 02:38 PM
I want my PCs to encounter a monster that is still injured after a recent battle.
More specifically, I have a group of 6 2nd level PCs, all from PHB classes (fighter, ranger, cleric, monk, rouge, sorcerer) and races (all but the sorcerer are elves, the sorcerer is gnome), all are RPG newbies. I would like them to run across an ettin who is fighting a group of kobolds (or possibly lizardfolk).

The PCs will be able to hide until it is over, and if they so choose, ambush the wounded ettin (it *will* win vs. the kobolds). I am wondering how much the CR will be reduced by damage? Linearly? (50% HP = 50% CR) Is there a precedent or is this in a rulebook somewhere that I have missed?

herrhauptmann
2009-12-21, 02:41 PM
I'm not so good at playing with CR's, but I'd say that 50% hitpoints is a CR-1 or so. Unless you reduce the things attack and armor class, it's still just as deadly to the PCs, it only dies after fewer hits from the PCs.

Grushvak
2009-12-21, 02:52 PM
I'm not so good at playing with CR's, but I'd say that 50% hitpoints is a CR-1 or so. Unless you reduce the things attack and armor class, it's still just as deadly to the PCs, it only dies after fewer hits from the PCs.

This is a good rule of thumb, and the opposite is also true. A monster with double the hit points should be treated as CR +1. Sure, it makes the encounter much more challenging if you're beating at it with sticks, but it's still just as vulnerable to save or sucks, trips, grapples, ability damage, etc.

Everyman
2009-12-21, 03:07 PM
I don't know if there is a rule in any of the books, but I've always just dropped the CR depending on how much of a disadvantage they've got. Kind of how the books recommend that archers in a tower are technically a higher CR than those at ground level if the party is at ground level.

I'd say lower the CR by one for anything up to 2/3 their max. HP, and lower it by two if you lower the HP down to 1/3. I wouldn't lower a creature's HP any lower than that unless the part is at a significant disadvantage somehow.

AslanCross
2009-12-21, 04:14 PM
A monster with critical HP and Power Attack can still one-hit a PC if it's lucky. Remember that low HP doesn't really subtract much from anything's combat ability in D&D. Now if it had ability damage, that would be a problem.

Allanimal
2009-12-21, 05:43 PM
A monster with critical HP and Power Attack can still one-hit a PC if it's lucky. Remember that low HP doesn't really subtract much from anything's combat ability in D&D. Now if it had ability damage, that would be a problem.

Good point. I forgot it had power attack, which could devastate even the toughest of the party at this point.

I'll have to reconsider this.
Juvenile ettin or perhaps something different altogether.... Hmmm...

herrhauptmann
2009-12-21, 06:14 PM
Good point. I forgot it had power attack, which could devastate even the toughest of the party at this point.

I'll have to reconsider this.
Juvenile ettin or perhaps something different altogether.... Hmmm...

Why not snag the troll from Sunless Citadel (the 3.0 adventure). Lowered strength so it couldn't rend, and lack of regeneration.

awa
2009-12-21, 06:15 PM
a smart party might start attacking the ettin while its in the middle of the fight with the kobolds from long range, But unless the pcs can kill it before it gets into melee its probably going to drop a couple party members. If the ettin had been poisoned in the battle losing some str or dex it could be a much easier fight

Ashtar
2009-12-21, 06:34 PM
It might also be a good encounter to teach them to be careful, after all, a wounded beast can still have a nasty bite. I approve of the encounter with the wounded Ettin and would recommend a CR-1 or -2 depending on how wounded and how advantageous the situation is for PCs (cover, distance, ranged attack possibility).

If someone speaks Kobold, they might team up with the smallies ^^.

Dexam
2009-12-21, 08:40 PM
I'll have to reconsider this.
Juvenile ettin or perhaps something different altogether.... Hmmm...

How about this:
1. take the standard Ogre (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ogre.htm) from the Monster Manual,
2. give it an extra head,
3. drop the dark vision,
4. give it superior two weapon fighting (an extra attack with a second weapon at full BAB),
5. advance it by two Hit Dice (giving it 13 additional HP, +1 to attacks, +1 to saves, 2 extra skill points, and a feat of your choice from the standard Ettin feats - or pick 3 of the 4 Ettin feats to replace the Ogre feats and adjust stats accordingly).

Up the CR by 1, and there you have a (nearly) instant juvenile Ettin! :smallwink:

Allanimal
2009-12-21, 09:15 PM
It might also be a good encounter to teach them to be careful, after all, a wounded beast can still have a nasty bite. I approve of the encounter with the wounded Ettin and would recommend a CR-1 or -2 depending on how wounded and how advantageous the situation is for PCs (cover, distance, ranged attack possibility).

That lesson is part of the reason for this encounter. :belkar:


If someone speaks Kobold, they might team up with the smallies ^^.

Can't remember if any of them do, but it would make things interesting indeed.



How about this:
1. take the standard Ogre (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ogre.htm) from the Monster Manual,
2. give it an extra head,
3. drop the dark vision,
4. give it superior two weapon fighting (an extra attack with a second weapon at full BAB),
5. advance it by two Hit Dice (giving it 13 additional HP, +1 to attacks, +1 to saves, 2 extra skill points, and a feat of your choice from the standard Ettin feats - or pick 3 of the 4 Ettin feats to replace the Ogre feats and adjust stats accordingly).

Up the CR by 1, and there you have a (nearly) instant juvenile Ettin! :smallwink:

Sounds like the way to go. Thanks!

Saintjebus
2009-12-21, 11:20 PM
Kobolds speak draconic.