Arena Tournament, Round 79: Yoshi vs. Ned the Knight

[ArenaManager]

Arena Tournament, Round 79: Yoshi vs. Ned the Knight

Map:
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab330/ArenaManager/Arenas/02-lava_arena.png


XP Award: 600 XP
GP Award: 600 GP

Yoshi (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=33736) - Mavian
Ned the Knight (http://www.dndonlinegames.com/view.php?id=66875) - lord sarthax

All Combatants, please roll initiative and declare final purchases, if any

[Mavian]

Hmm, mounted combat in this terrain?

I don't believe I have need of any spells, but I will need to buy some alchemicals.

[lord sarthax]

Heh I just make due with what I can.

Im not going to buy anything unless I see the need based on your purchases.

[Mavian]

I think I've worked out a viable strategy, its led to me purchasing some new spells.

Purchases:
Scroll of Blockade, Blockade, Enrage Animal

Initiative: [roll0]

Spells and such

Boosting speed
0th: 1x Guidance, 1x Minor Energy Ward, 1x Daze
1st: 1x Blade of Blood, 1x Obscuring Mist


Wow, the dice have just been against me lately. You could actually end up going first.

[lord sarthax]

Which book is enrage animal in? Even better you could tell me what it does. I have a feeling of what you are doing.

[Mavian]

Champions of Ruin.

If the animal its cast at fails its save, it attacks the nearest creature to it.

[lord sarthax]

Thanks.

Initiative
[roll0]

[Mavian]

No problem, you have a right to know what my spells can do.

Yoshi - Round 1


Starting in Y10 with the Blockade Scroll drawn
Double move to N10. This is assuming I can move diagonally from O6 to N7. I not I end my move in N9


End of Turn

Stats:

Hp: 7/7
Ac: 21
Pos: M9
Boosting speed
0th: 1x Guidance, 1x Minor Energy Ward, 1x Daze
1st: 1x Blade of Blood, 1x Obscuring Mist

[Sallera]

Just a note to avoid possible confusion - the spell you're talking about is Enrage Animals. Enrage Animal is a completely different spell from SpC. :smalltongue:

[lord sarthax]

Which did you choose?

[Mavian]

The one from Champions of Ruin, didn't even see the other one in the spell compendium.

After looking it up, yeah, give your horse +4 Str/Con would just be stupid :smallwink:

[lord sarthax]

ref question
I have a question about the ride skill. Is there any book that it talks about a dismount while the horse is moving so that the horse will continue moving after you jump off?

[Psionic Dog]

@lord sarthax
I'm not aware of any books that cover that topic, but convincing an animal to move in a particular direction without you is usually covered by the Handle Animal skill.

[lord sarthax]

Ned round 1

What ever. I wont worry about that right now.
Ned starts in B10 with Lance in hand with his heavy shield equipped. He moves to F5 and readies an action to attack him if he gets in range. If LoS is established, then I might change my actions.

End of turn unless LoS is established.

Stats.
Hp: 22/22
AC: 18, 16, 12
In F5

[lord sarthax]

FYI, Gona be skiing from Sunday to Tuesday. Might not be able to post. Back.

[Scorer]

Hi Ref Scorer

LoS is established.

Ned is on F5.

Yoshi is on N9.

[lord sarthax]

Ok thats the end of my turn. Go ahead.

[Mavian]

Yoshi - Round 2


Free Action: Wave
Standard Action: Ready an action
Move Action: Wave

Ready an action to cast blockade of the scroll if Ned gets enters N8


End of Turn:

Hp: 7/7
Ac: 21
Pos: M11
Boosting speed
0th: 1x Guidance, 1x Minor Energy Ward, 1x Daze
1st: 1x Blade of Blood, 1x Obscuring Mist

[Tanaric]

I think it best to assume you meant to wave before readying the action, Mav, since you would have otherwise lost the readied action. :smalltongue:

[Mavian]

Bah, I started rethinking my turn in the middle of it, that wave isn't supposed to be there. And it hadn't even been 4 minutes, I could've fixed it too. :smallyuk:

[lord sarthax]

So what, is it my turn?

[Mavian]

Yeah, it is

[lord sarthax]

Ref question, does he get the ready action or not? Might change what Im going to do.

[Sallera]

He still has the readied action. Waving is a form of sign language or signal, which has traditionally been treated as a free action in the Arena. Thus, using a move action to wave is incorrect, and can be ignored and/or redone under the illegal action precedent.[/randomrulesbabble]

[lord sarthax]

Thank you.

Ned round 2

standard action: Total Defense
move action: move to N3

Stats
Hp: 22/22
AC: 22 (+4 from total defense, 18 is normal), 16, 12
In N3

[Mavian]

Yoshi - Round 3

Move Action: N9 to M11
Standard Action: Ready an Action

Ready an action to cast blockade of the scroll if Ned gets enters N8


End of Turn

Stats:

Hp: 7/7
Ac: 21
Pos: M11
Boosting speed
0th: 1x Guidance, 1x Minor Energy Ward, 1x Daze
1st: 1x Blade of Blood, 1x Obscuring Mist

[lord sarthax]

Ned round 3

Im guessing that your readied action will be triggered by this but what ever.

Free: Knights challenge at Yoshi.
Full round: Ned makes his horse charge to N9 and with his lance (Reach of 10ft) attacks Yoshi.

Attack
[roll0]
Damage
[roll1] X3 from spirited charge

stats
Hp: 22/22
AC: 16 (charge), 16, 12
In N3

[Mavian]

When you start to leave N7, a giant block of wood appears in N8, stopping you from moving.

Yoshi - Round 3

Move Action: Draw Alchemist Fire
Standard Action: Throw Alchemist Fire at Ned
Attack: [roll0] - 4 for cover from the block, -2 Range vs Touch AC -2
Damage: [roll1]
Non-Action: 5-ft step to N10

End of Turn:

Hp: 7/7
Ac: 21
Pos: M10
Boosting speed
0th: 1x Guidance, 1x Minor Energy Ward, 1x Daze
1st: 1x Blade of Blood, 1x Obscuring Mist

[lord sarthax]

How big is the block created by Blockade? And how long does it last? guessing it takes up only one square.

[Mavian]

It's a 5x5 solid block of wood, that weighs 2000 lbs and has 600 hitpoints.

It lasts for 3 rounds.

[Mavian]

I just realized that I didn't roll for direction on that alchemist fire

Direction: [roll0]

That should mean it just sails past you and misses everything

[lord sarthax]

what would the DC be for my horse to jump either over the block?

[Mavian]

Without a running start? 40

[lord sarthax]

With a running start?

[Mavian]

20, I believe

[lord sarthax]

@refs
So on the SRD it says that to jump on your horse, you use either your Ride skill or the horse's jump, which ever is lower. How ever it doesnt give what the heavy warhorse's jump bonus is here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/horse.htm). Should I just use the horse's strength modifier as its jump modifier seeing as its probably lower than my +10 for ride?

[Sallera]

Ned:That is correct. If a skill isn't listed, that just means it has no ranks in that skill, so mod of +3.

[Psionic Dog]

@Refs/Ned
Actually +11. Creatures gain a +4 speed bonus on jump checks for every 10ft over 30 they have, so with a 50ft speed it would would have +0 ranks + 3 str + 8 other = +11

[lord sarthax]

Refs
Ya thats right. So then I need to use my ride skill. Since my mount's speed is 50 I could back up 20 feet and then get running start and still have 10 extra feet for movement. Am I right?

[Sallera]

Ned:That is correct.

[lord sarthax]

Ned round 3

Move: move to N3 (Think thats 20ft) then with a running start, attempt to jump over the wooden block DC 20 to N10. [roll0]

Standard: If I make it over attack Yoshi.

Attack [roll1]
Damage [roll2]

If I dont make it over the block I fall off of horse (Dont know where I will land)

Stats
Hp: 22/22
AC: 18, 16, 12
In N10

[Mavian]

So you fall?

[lord sarthax]

Ya dont know where I land, Is it in the square before the block? Need ref opinion on that.

[Sallera]

Well, the horse is currently occupying N6-N7, so those squares are illegal. Unless someone knows of any precedent on the matter, I'd be inclined to say you fall in the last legal space, i.e. N5, and take the standard 1d6 fall damage. Also, while it didn't matter in this case, keep in mind that the horse is considered squeezing while on the bridge, and requires double movement costs, so the jump attempt required both of its move actions.

[chilepepper]

IIRC, unless he makes the required tumble check to land on his feet, he would land prone. A prone character can be in a non-prone character's square.

edit:
Apparently I didn't remember correctly. You'd have to be 'helpless'.

Here's the correct rule.

Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space: Some-
times a character ends its movement while moving through a space
where it’s not allowed to stop. For example, you might incur an
attack of opportunity from a monk while moving through a friend’s
square and become stunned. When that happens, put your
miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal
position, if there’s a legal position that’s closer.

[chilepepper]

High Ref chilepepper

Actually, hand on one sec.

refs, Ned
This probably doesn't need to be spoilered, but just in case.

I can't see Ned's sheet, but I'm wondering about that jump modifier. A light warhorse, for example, would have a +15 jump modifier.

If everything is correct, then Ned lands in the nearest legal square.

[Sallera]

Chile/Ned:It's a heavy warhorse, but he only has Ride +10, so that's what he was using.

[chilepepper]

Okay, so... game on.

[Mavian]

Yoshi - Round 4
Standard Action: Cast Enrage Animals (Champions of Ruin edition) on the warhorse. It needs to make a DC15 will save, or attack the nearest creature.
Move Action: Run away to M16

End of Turn

Stats:

Hp: 7/7
Ac: 21
Pos: M16
Boosting speed
0th: 1x Guidance, 1x Minor Energy Ward, 1x Daze
1st: 1x Blade of Blood, 1x Obscuring Mist

[lord sarthax]

Horse Will save
[roll0]

[lord sarthax]

Ok so no enrage animal quite yet.
Here is my falling damage
[roll0]

Ned round 4
Im prone right?

Move action: Stand up
Standard: Total Defense

Im guessing I am in N5

stats
Hp: 22-roll above/22
AC: 22, 20, 16 (total defense)
In N10

[Mavian]

Gah, we'll there goes that strategy

Move Action: M16 to M10
Standard Action: Throw a shuriken at you

Attack: [roll0] Distance not included
And that's a miss. I just cannot catch a break in this match.
Damage: [roll1].

[lord sarthax]

How much longer on the block?

[Mavian]

That should be it, although there is a horse in the way now

[lord sarthax]

would It just be a move action unless if I make a D20 ride check to do a free action right?

[Mavian]

To mount? Yeah, although the horse hasn't gotten up yet.

[lord sarthax]

What would that be a handle animal check? I was expecting it to get up on its own.

[Mavian]

It will, you just have to actually post that it uses a move action to stand from prone. No post, no action.

[lord sarthax]

Ned round 5

Horse uses its move action to stand up from prone.

My Move action: Mount horse.
Standard action: Full Defense
Free: Use shield block against Yoshi.

Am I considered in N8 now?


Hp: 16/22
AC: 23, 21, 16 (total defense+shield block)
In N6

[Sallera]

You're in N6/N7.

[lord sarthax]

There I fixed it

[Mavian]

Quick question, does that mean squeezing rules apply?

[Sallera]

Yes, it does. The rules make no mention of the space occupied having to be enclosed, just smaller than the space the creature takes up.

[Mavian]

Move Action: M10 to M16
Standard Action: Attack the horse with a shuriken
Attack: [roll0] Range not included, should be neg -8 or so. Horses AC should be 9ish
Damage: [roll1]
Swift Action: Cast blockade at M15

End of Turn:

Hp: 7/7
Ac: 21
Pos: M16
Boosting speed
0th: 1x Guidance, 1x Minor Energy Ward, 1x Daze
1st: 1x Blade of Blood, 1x Obscuring Mist

[lord sarthax]

Ned round 6

Move action: move to G5
Standard: Full Defense
Free: shield block against yoshi

Hp: 16/22
AC: 23, 21, 16 (total defense+shield block)
In G5

[Mavian]

Yoshi - Round 7

Full Round Action: Total Defense

End of Turn

Stats:

Hp: 7/7
Ac: 21
Pos: M16
Boosting speed
0th: 1x Guidance, 1x Minor Energy Ward, 1x Daze
1st: 1x Blade of Blood, 1x Obscuring Mist

[lord sarthax]

Ned round 7

Move action: move to E13
Standard: Full Defense
Free: shield block against yoshi

Hp: 16/22
AC: 23, 21, 16 (total defense+shield block)
In G5

[Mavian]

Yoshi - Round 8

Full Round Action: Total Defense

End of Turn

Stats:

Hp: 7/7
Ac: 21
Pos: M16
Boosting speed
0th: 1x Guidance, 1x Minor Energy Ward, 1x Daze
1st: 1x Blade of Blood, 1x Obscuring Mist

[lord sarthax]

Gona be out of town this weekend. No access to a computer.

Ned round 8

Move to E17
ready an action
If he gets in range, attack him with my lance.
Free: shield block against yoshi

stats
Hp: 16/22
AC: 19, 17, 16 (shield block)
In E17

[Mavian]

Well, then lets end this now.

Swift Action: Blade of Blood on my fist
Move Action: M16 to F17
Standard Action: Attack [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]+[roll2] skirmish + [roll3] Blade of Blood (Sacrificing 5 hp)

End of Turn

That should make it easier on you. Especially with the general suckiness of those rolls.

Stats:

Hp: 2/7
Ac: 21
Pos: F17
Boosting speed
0th: 1x Guidance, 1x Minor Energy Ward, 1x Daze
1st: 1x Blade of Blood, 1x Obscuring Mist

[lord sarthax]

Well that triggered my readied action any ways which was to attack you if you got in range.

Attack
[roll0] (+5 base, +1 fighting challenge, +1 from being mounted)
Damage
[roll1] (+3 strength, +1 fighting challenge)

[lord sarthax]

Grr, My turn again though

Round 9

Free: Shield block against Yoshi.

Attack
[roll0]
Damage
[roll1]

stats
Hp: 16/22
AC: 19, 17, 16 (shield block)
In E17

[hustlertwo]

OK, I think we're awaiting confirmation from Mav that this is game.

[Mavian]

But its not game :P I'm not quite dead yet. Also, you would've had to move to attack with a lance no?

My DR reduces that damage to 2, leaving me disabled, but not dead.

[lord sarthax]

I havent seen that anywhere on the SRD.

[hustlertwo]

OK, the DR must come from one of the things I don't recognize on your sheet. Anyhow, that'd be your turn then, Mav.

[Mavian]

Its in the first line of the lance descriptive (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#lance) text.



A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. It has reach, so you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it, but you can’t use it against an adjacent foe.


@Hustler
The DR comes from the Cloak of Obyrith, there's a link to it on my sheet it.

[hustlertwo]

Well, if it's a reach weapon, didn't you provoke an AoO by coming within melee range?

[Mavian]

I thought thats what his first roll was.

[hustlertwo]

I think that was a readied action. I might have missed something though.

[Bayar]

Initiate Ref Bayar

Indeed that was a readied action attack.

Is there any rules that let you dont let you to have a shield block and attack ? I mean, granting yourself total cover from soneone means that the other person also gets total cover from you...right ?

[hustlertwo]

I thought shield block was some Knight thing. That class seems to have all sorts of weird abilities.

Is this match on hold? I don't remember seeing any ref requests. If not, Mav's go. If stuff still needs to be sorted out, I'd suggest putting out the call in the Waiting Room. My not knowing about either of these character's classes or abilities sorta keeps me from making rulings as to whether Mav is disabled, or still sitting pretty in the positives because he was not attacked a second time.

[Bayar]

I thought shield block was some Knight thing. That class seems to have all sorts of weird abilities.


Disregard what I said, I suck *****.

[Lubirio]

Init Ref Lubirio

Ned's readied action was to attack yoshi if he came in range, 'in range' is 10ft for a reach weapon like a lance, the readied action goes off as yoshi enters G17, as yoshi then leaves G17 to enter F17 and attack Ned, he triggers an AoO for leaving a threatened area, which was not taken. Ned then attacked Yoshi on his turn, which was impossible without a 5ft step, which was not taken.

I'm not sure what the confusion is about, but shield block is indeed a knight class ability, and what I just said means the attack from his turn is invalid, while he gets a new attack before his turn. So we rewind to Ned's round 9 turn, after he takes the AoO.

[lord sarthax]

Ok so it's my turn? What is his status health wise and do I have both actions left? Im a bit confused.

[Bayar]

Initiate Ref Bayar

You took your readied action, but did not take your AoO.

Now it is your turn. Bear in mind, you cannot attack adjactent targets with your current weapon.

[lord sarthax]

Could I move and then still attack with my lance? I hate reach rules.

[Bayar]

Yes you can move on your turn and still attack.

[lord sarthax]

round 9

Free: Shield Block
Move: G19 (Is that far enough to attack with my lance?)
Standard:
Attack
[roll0]
Damage
[roll1]

stats
Hp: 16/22
AC: 19, 17, 16 (shield block)
In E17

[02youeng]

High Ref 02youeng

Yes, G19 is 10ft away from F17.

[Bayar]

Wont that trigger an AoO ?

[hustlertwo]

Yes. Unfortunately, Sarthax, this is sort of a learn as you go thing. You could have 5 foot stepped away to attack, without incurring an AoO. But you didn't, so now Mav gets one, because you have to specifically say 5 foot step. Your attack still goes through, but he gets to hit you first.

[Mavian]

I'm kind of confused here.

Why exactly is he getting to redo his turn? His actions were still legal, he just couldn't hit me from where he was standing. So that shouldn't because for a rewind. And he still hasn't taken the AoO I provoked, so is he just giving it up?

[hustlertwo]

The ruling seemed to be that he didn't get the AoO, but his attack on the next turn was rewound, presumably due to being an illegal action.

However, it looks like the same attack and damage either way , so I'm not sure how much it matters. Unless it was ruled he got both the AoO and the attack, things would be the same. Namely, that he gets a 23 attack roll against you for 5 damage. As it stands now you get an AoO prior to that attack, and then it's your turn after his attack hits.

[Mavian]

But it wasn't an illegal action. Him using a standard action to attack was perfectly legal, he just couldn't hit me from where he was standing. Nothing illegal about that.

[hustlertwo]

Bah, fine, I'll get involved. High ref override puny initiates! Ned gets his AoO, I never really saw why he wouldn't, as I don't think it's solely a player's responsibility to know when those are incurred, their opponents and refs would have to mention it since there are things that keep AoOs from happening (if this is wrong, well, then stop making me be a match ref, it's not my thing). 23 attack roll, 5 damage (the rolls being identical makes picking which one applied a fairly easy procedure). We're going back to his original turn after that, where he stayed next to Yoshi, attempted to hit, and failed due to range (since that's how it works in any other range failure situation). It's now Mav's turn, you're both next to each other.

[Bayar]

Initiate Ref Bayar


Bah, fine, I'll get involved. High ref override puny initiates! Ned gets his AoO, I never really saw why he wouldn't, as I don't think it's solely a player's responsibility to know when those are incurred, their opponents and refs would have to mention it since there are things that keep AoOs from happening (if this is wrong, well, then stop making me be a match ref, it's not my thing). 23 attack roll, 5 damage (the rolls being identical makes picking which one applied a fairly easy procedure). We're going back to his original turn after that, where he stayed next to Yoshi, attempted to hit, and failed due to range (since that's how it works in any other range failure situation). It's now Mav's turn, you're both next to each other.

Wat. :confused:

Ned readied an action to attack Yoshi if he camw within range of his weapon. Yoshi went at him, triggering both Ned's readied action and an AoO for leaving a threatened square. Then Ned attempted to attack Yoshi in an adjecent square, which his weapon cannot acomplish.

How is this not what happened, and why you need to override "puny initiates" ?

[Sallera]

That is what happened, and what he said. He's just taking the rolls for the failed attack as the AoO.

[hustlertwo]

It's a joke, Bayar. I'm not running you down, as I personally don't know much about the rules (I'm one of the high refs who is more focused on things like match calls or making/updating rounds), but in this case I do know a bit more about Arena precedent than you due to having a lot more matches. And what you described actually is what happened, but when someone attempts to attack an enemy who is out of their range, they typically do not get a rewind. Arena precedent says that only truly illegal actions get those; ill-advised ones, like attacking an enemy who is too close or too far away (like trying to Color Spray an opponent who's 20 feet away, or things of that nature, as it usually comes up with spells) are simply lost actions. So going by precedent, Ned got his readied attack, which whiffed, and the AoO, which hit (I think), and then attempted to attack on his turn and chuffed it by not moving back to put Yoshi in range. Thus, we are at Yoshi's turn.

Actually, Sallera, I think these rolls were for the AoO, weren't they? He rolled them twice.

[Sallera]

Rolled them for his Round 9 attack twice. He never actually stated he was taking the AoO.

[hustlertwo]

Then he needs to roll for the AoO, I guess.


Refs, not holding up play
Why would he roll for the same round twice? Oh, and Sallera, looks like it's just about time for us to have the round 75 finals.

[Sallera]

Refs:Because he thought he got a rewind due to not being in range. And aye, it is. Finally. :smalltongue: Incidentally, why are we spoilering this?

[hustlertwo]

Refs (still not holding up play, carry on)

I didn't feel like sending a PM out, and there's no sense getting off-topic in the middle of a match. And it seems like his old roll would have counted for the round, since he was rolling it for the same thing (namely, the round whatever number attack. But I don't really know what RAW or precedent is for keeping a roll in that situation.

[Sallera]

Refs:Oh, he certainly should have kept the roll. He just appears to be rather new at this, despite being a returning gladiator.

[hustlertwo]

Of course, he kept it anyhow, despite the improbability of achieving the same roll twice in a row on two different dice.

[lord sarthax]

AoO I guess.
attack
[roll0]
damage
[roll1]

[lord sarthax]

That should be a +7 not a +6 making it a 20. Doubt it matters though.

[hustlertwo]

I know we had some confusion there, so I won't hand down any DQs. But Mav, it's been your go for a couple days now.

[hustlertwo]

Hmmm, looks like Mav's seriously gone, no posts in here for a week and hasn't even logged on for almost four days.

Yoshi is disqualified, Ned is victorious!