[3.5]Concerning the Battle Dancer (Dragon Compendium)

[CockroachTeaParty]

Greetings my beloved, righteous, glorious, beauteous, Herculean, playgrounders.

I've a question for you.

A potential player of mine would like to try to make a Battle Dancer, a prestige class from the Dragon Compendium. Apparently, it's a tumbling, non-armored, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon sort of class.

I do not have access to the Dragon Compendium, or the magazine from which this class was spawned. It does not sound that unbalanced to me, but I'd just like to ask if anyone is familiar with it, and if so, your opinions or thoughts concerning it.

It is a primarily melee-focused glass, and thus I'm automatically less concerned about it than a magic-using class. However, the game in question I am planning is a prison escape sort of game, probably starting at low levels. Said character may have a few levels to go before becoming one, and the final abilities of the class are unlikely to come into play.

So, any thoughts? Should I quiver in bowel-voiding fear of this class? Or heartily encourage its inclusion in my game?

Edit: A quick search seems to suggest the Battle Dancer is in fact a base class. Is this true? My eyebrows arch.

[arguskos]

The Battle Dancer IS a base class. It is also weak. It's basically a dancing themed monk.

As for allowing it, I say yes, heartily. It's not good enough to restrict, considering it's monk-levels of power.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Hmm, further jiggery-pokery reveals that it acquires pounce. That is the only thing I see especially good about it.

Some folk consider it around Tier 4 or so. So, I'm not too worried.

That said, another question:

How would this class interact in a gestalt game?

[Tetsubo 57]

I really like the Battle Dancer. Though I haven't seen it in play. It might need a bit more "pow!" if you will. I'm not really sure what to do however. I'd let the person play it as a base class and maybe retune it a tad during play if any glaring issues arise.

[Temet Nosce]

It's not *quite* as bad as the Monk (it gets full BAB at least) but yeah, it's definitely a Tier 5 at best. If you wouldn't allow an unmodified Monk to play - don't allow it (because lets be honest, it's so weak that it'd disrupt a lot of games).

Edit: And yeah, it gets a Pounce like ability... at level 11.

It'd be decent in Gestalt since it has full BAB, and a D8 HD but it only has one good save. Not exactly something I'd suggest even then.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Well, in a game where the characters start with next to no equipment, it might prove actually more useful than normal. (Picture a Great Escape/Escape from Butcher Bay sort of game. In the Dreadhold in Eberron. Should be good times.)

[Temet Nosce]

Well, in a game where the characters start with next to no equipment, it might prove actually more useful than normal. (Picture a Great Escape/Escape from Butcher Bay sort of game. In the Dreadhold in Eberron. Should be good times.)

What starting level? That might actually work, presuming you're sticking Tier 3 or below classes. Although it still wouldn't be as useful as a THW Fighter build using a non-magic weapon, or even a straight Rogue using SA. It could at least be somewhat useful though.

[CockroachTeaParty]

I'm thinking of starting level 2 or 3, and probably going gestalt, to give casters something to do (magic will be heavily impeded and restricted in the prison). I expect the game to mostly rely on stealth, interaction with guards and prisoners, and nasty, gritty fighting in the depths of the prison, with unarmed attacks and improvised weapons.

Speaking of which, what would be good stats for a shiv? I'm thinking an improvised piercing or slashing weapon, dealing 1d4 damage?

[Temet Nosce]

I'm thinking of starting level 2 or 3, and probably going gestalt, to give casters something to do (magic will be heavily impeded and restricted in the prison). I expect the game to mostly rely on stealth, interaction with guards and prisoners, and nasty, gritty fighting in the depths of the prison, with unarmed attacks and improvised weapons.

Speaking of which, what would be good stats for a shiv? I'm thinking an improvised piercing or slashing weapon, dealing 1d4 damage?

Eh, alright at that level the other melee won't be reliant on magic yet so the Battle Dancer may be overwhelmed unless they take a good second class as a Gestalt. Still it shouldn't be *to* bad provided the Battle Dancer is semi competent at CO (if not, give them some help).

1d4, piercing or slashing is good. Make it identical to a dagger except only crits on a 20 and no range.

[arguskos]

A shiv probably uses dagger stats, but 20/x2 rather than 19-20/x2. It's probably unkind to give them non-proficiency penalties. Give every player Throw Anything and Catch Off Guard, negating all improv penalties. That seems reasonable.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

A shiv probably uses dagger stats, but 20/x2 rather than 19-20/x2. It's probably unkind to give them non-proficiency penalties. I'd make it break on a nat 1, too, to represent the homemade nature.

[arguskos]

I'd make it break on a nat 1, too, to represent the homemade nature.
That seems like a reasonable rule for any improv weapon honestly.

[T.G. Oskar]

Battle Dancer has some stuff that's actually better than Monk, since you get some stuff the Monk doesn't have (simple weapon prof, ability to fly even if it's related to Tumble and gained hilariously late, pounce), and an actually good 20th level ability (albeit very, very, VERY late and almost senseless by the moment), while sacrificing some of the things that would actually make sense on a Monk (evasion, flurry, imp. evasion, SR even if arguably bad as it works).

So yeah, it's not broken by any means, and it's closer to a build rather than a class. You can do something interesting if you know where to look at, but it's not something you'd take 20 levels at. It does work well with Dervish, though. Plus, you get to raise Tumble almost forcefully, which isn't any bit as bad at all...