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ErrantX
2009-12-21, 08:41 PM
I'm trying to stat up a potential character for the future and I wanted to come to my fellow Playgrounders for advice.

I want to make a gish that makes use of the Stormbolt and Clap of Thunder reserve feats and Born of Three Thunders. I foresee Energy Substitution being pretty ideal for this too. Ideally a martial adept, but not necessary, and ideally something humanoid. Sorcerer base is preferred, but not mandatory. Just ideal. I'd like to be able to fight my way out of a wet paper bag if pressed and still try to get at least 8th level magic.

Any help?
-X

Haven
2009-12-21, 08:43 PM
Sounds like you want the Lightning Warrior. It truly sacrifices power for flavor, though.

Woodsman
2009-12-21, 08:50 PM
Sounds like you want the Lightning Warrior. It truly sacrifices power for flavor, though.

Yeah, losing the familiar? That hurts any caster.

AslanCross
2009-12-21, 08:52 PM
But, but, d20 HD. ):

ErrantX
2009-12-21, 08:52 PM
I'm unfamiliar with the Lightning Warrior. Source?

Also, any Wizards of the Coast 3.5 book is up for source material, as well as the Dragon Compendium. Beyond that, I really dislike 3rd party material beyond settings.

-X

Woodsman
2009-12-21, 08:54 PM
I'm unfamiliar with the Lightning Warrior. Source?


Don't worry about it. Trust me.

Roc Ness
2009-12-21, 08:55 PM
The Lightning Warrior was some joke homebrew with good everything and d20 Hit Dice, Full casting, and everything else except for a familiar.

You might want to try it... :smalltongue:

deuxhero
2009-12-21, 08:56 PM
I don't know where the PnP verison was from, but Stormlord (http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Stormlord) is 10/10 casting with some lightning based weapon improvement abilites and 3/4 BAB (a divine power away from fixing), 3 dumped feats though, be sure to use improved toughness instead of toughness.

ErrantX
2009-12-21, 08:57 PM
*rolls his eyes*

Yes, that's precisely what I want to try. /sarcasm :smallsmile:

No other serious advice? I've been wracking my brain and if all else fails, I'll turn to homebrew.

-X

Krazddndfreek
2009-12-21, 08:58 PM
There was some divine caster PrC like that in Complete Divine. Lemme see if I can't find it.

EDIT: I'm thinking that the Stormlord is the same one, but just to be sure, I'm going to have a look in my complete divine.

arguskos
2009-12-21, 08:58 PM
The Stormlord is from Complete Divine, and is a divine prc.

As for lightning themed gishes, why not go into Jade Phoenix Mage and ask your DM to refluff as lightning? It's not hard.

deuxhero
2009-12-21, 08:58 PM
Stormlord was serious (though I guess I ninjaed you with that suggestion). Divine gishes are still gishes.

SurlySeraph
2009-12-21, 08:58 PM
Now that we've gotten the obligatory reference out of the way, there are a number of options that spring to mind.

You could do the Sorcadin (Paladin 2/ Sorceror 4/ Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8), but given that the first search result I got for "Sorcadin" was you recommending it I think you already know about that. It'll certainly work well enough.

Duskblade is straightforward and easy, but doesn't get high-level spells.

You could do Swordsage/Jade Phoenix Mage, especially if you were allowed a homebrew feat to change Desert Wind strikes to do electricity damage.

AslanCross
2009-12-21, 08:58 PM
I would've suggested Duskblade, but it's not a true gish. It's kind of a melee blaster. They also only get Lv 6 spells very late.

Woodsman
2009-12-21, 09:00 PM
Jade Phoenix Mage from Tome of Battle would work nicely. 8/10's casting, decent combat ability, gets good maneuvers from Devoted Spirit. If you can convince your DM to let you use Energy Substitution on the Desert Wind maneuvers/stances and other Jade Phoenix Mage abilities, I think it'd work.

Edit: Darn you ninjas!

ErrantX
2009-12-21, 09:02 PM
JPM was a strong contender for what I was considering, and Sorcadin isn't out of my scope either. Mostly I'm looking for feats I should invest in as well, etc. A full on build is really what I'm looking for.

-X

Signmaker
2009-12-21, 09:03 PM
If you can dredge up any wind effects, perhaps invest in a Pandemonic Silver weapon.

tahu88810
2009-12-21, 09:03 PM
There's a prestige class in Stormwrack. I can't remember the name, though.

Woodsman
2009-12-21, 09:04 PM
There's a prestige class in Stormwrack. I can't remember the name, though.

You mean Stormcaster?

arguskos
2009-12-21, 09:08 PM
There's a prestige class in Stormwrack. I can't remember the name, though.
Stormcaster. It's not gish material though, seeing as it has 1/2 BAB.

RE: Stormlord: Yeah, I know that, deux, but he wanted Sorc-based, which says arcane gish to me. :smallwink:

My suggestion is a standard Swordsage/Sorcerer/JPM build, fluffed to lightning. Take the Rapid Metamagic alt feature, Born of the Three Thunders (I have first hand experience on how strong it really can be), and lots of lightning/storm-themed spells. Go to town. Not the MOST thematic, but probably the most thematic that isn't also crap.

ex cathedra
2009-12-21, 10:33 PM
Swiftblade. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327)

Do it.

Pluto
2009-12-21, 10:38 PM
The easiest way is probably to switch every instance of the word "Fire" in the Desert Wind discipline and the Jade Phoenix Mage class to "Electricity" and build a standard pretty Swordsage/Sorcerer/Jade Phoenix Mage.

Or just use a Duskblade. Between its channeling, direct damage and swift action buffs, it plays just like the Caster/Martial Adept you're looking for.

A standard gish build, using Spellsword, Abjurant Champion, Sacred Exorcist, Eldritch Knight, Raumathari Battlemage or whatever the kids are using these days, could work as well, so long as it has access to a bit of direct damage.

If you want a slightly different take, you could use the Stormsinger from Frostburn. It's a Bard PrC that uses its music abilities to fuel deafening lightning attacks and other storm effects (Control Winds/Weather, Storm of Vengence... that sort of thing). Combine with Melodic Casting, and you'll have a pretty neat build. Only 5/10 BA, but that's what Skillful weapons and wands of Divine Power are for.

Thrice Dead Cat
2009-12-21, 10:55 PM
Swiftblade. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327)

Do it.

I'm going to go with this. Screw actually using lightning spells: just describe haste as crackles of electricity with or without spell thematics to back it up.

ErrantX
2009-12-21, 11:14 PM
I'm going to go with this. Screw actually using lightning spells: just describe haste as crackles of electricity with or without spell thematics to back it up.

But I want to use lightning spells :smalltongue:

Haste being all lightning oriented, awesome. I love it. I also want to make judicious use of Stormbolt and Clap of Thunder, I want to Energy Sub my spells for electricity and Born of Three Thunders from time to time. That's my goal anyway. I know blasting is suboptimal, I'm going for flavor first, strength second. Swiftblade isn't a bad idea though.

-X

Thrice Dead Cat
2009-12-21, 11:34 PM
But I want to use lightning spells :smalltongue:

Haste being all lightning oriented, awesome. I love it. I also want to make judicious use of Stormbolt and Clap of Thunder, I want to Energy Sub my spells for electricity and Born of Three Thunders from time to time. That's my goal anyway. I know blasting is suboptimal, I'm going for flavor first, strength second. Swiftblade isn't a bad idea though.

-X

Oh, I know what you can do then! It may require flaws to pull off, but the King of Combust (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871534/Tome_of_Battle_Build_Compendium_II) puts the Combust spell to good use. Getting energy substitution on it shouldn't be too difficult. This also meshes well with the previous idea of using lightning themed JPM.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-12-22, 12:11 AM
Oh, I know what you can do then! It may require flaws to pull off, but the King of Combust (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871534/Tome_of_Battle_Build_Compendium_II) puts the Combust spell to good use. Getting energy substitution on it shouldn't be too difficult. This also meshes well with the previous idea of using lightning themed JPM.

Dammit, I was going to suggest adapting that! The only issue is that the King has Searing Spell to ignore fire resistance/immunity and there isn't anything similar for electricity or sonic, but hopefully you won't run into anyone who has immunity to electricity and sonic damage.

---------------------------

Errant, how determined are you to be an arcane/martial gish? I ask because psionics does blasting fairly well, and any of the Energy X powers can use electricity and sonic by default (and at +2 DC/+2 vs. SR on the electricity powers to boot!).

You could easily go psion (kineticist) 3/cleric 3/psychic theurge (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925b) 10 and finish that off with whatever storm-themed PrC you want or more levels of psion or cleric. (Ardent 1 with Practiced Manifester works too if you're not attached to the kineticist energy powers, Favored Soul gives you more spells per day, etc.--any full manifester/full divine caster should work.) Essentially, you'd use the divine half to buff up CoDzilla style, power the reserve feats, and use Born of the Three Thunders on some Energy Sub'd blasty spells, and you'd use the psionic half for straight blasting with some of the more unique psionic power-ups (anticipatory strike, temporal acceleration, etc.) to put you in the best position for blasting.

sofawall
2009-12-22, 12:12 AM
Sounds like you want the Lightning Warrior. It truly sacrifices power for flavor, though.

That took next to no time.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-12-22, 12:17 AM
i bet a duskblade would work well specialy with energy sub... i meen alone shocking grasp is great for duskblades... potential for a +3 and weapon dmg... dont forget to pick up power attack.

Gerrtt
2009-12-22, 12:33 AM
It doesn't boost your casting at all, but Blade Dancer from Oriental Adventures gets full BAB, some nice air themed abilities, and the ability to give your weapons several enchantments. If you just chose the electricity ones it could work for ya.

Seatbelt
2009-12-22, 01:34 AM
I loved the Lightning Leap spell so much I built a gish off it. I took a bunch of metamagic lowering feats and leap attack. I'd charge, and then cast a quickened repeating lightning leap. The next round I'd lightning leap away/through people and then charge someone. Not the most effective but it sounded cool at the time. I would have been jumping and flashing all over the place. I think I ended up swapping out for a stronger spell like vampiric touch or enervation. But It would have been neat.

Roc Ness
2009-12-22, 02:22 AM
I do believe, quite seriously, that the problem is you want a lightning themed gish. The only PRC with lightning themed abilities and gishing capability is the stormlord, as others have pointed out. Really, the best you could do short of homebrewing/changing elemental abilities (like the Desert Wind element change previously mentioned) is to grab shocking burst for your weapon and choose lightning spells and feats.

ErrantX
2009-12-22, 06:34 PM
I do believe, quite seriously, that the problem is you want a lightning themed gish. The only PRC with lightning themed abilities and gishing capability is the stormlord, as others have pointed out. Really, the best you could do short of homebrewing/changing elemental abilities (like the Desert Wind element change previously mentioned) is to grab shocking burst for your weapon and choose lightning spells and feats.

Hrm, well, outside of the "Lightning Warrior" is there any homebrew classes that might help fit the bill that anyone knows about?

I'm strongly considering using the King of Combustion JPM build as well, but not entirely sold yet. I've got a little more time before I have to really put pen to paper.

-X

dyslexicfaser
2009-12-22, 07:11 PM
Also, you may want to consider this (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6336.0) neat little trick. Basically, a level 3 kineticist and a level 9 druid can, working together, create tornadoes.

A level 3 Stormlord (and mount) ignores any detrimental storm effects, magical or natural (ignoring winds, objects propelled by winds, thunder and lightning).

A Stormlord can be druid-based.

See how that all comes together? Ride a freaking tornado into battle.

EDIT: And this is kind of an off-the-wall suggestion, but maybe wearing an elemental (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870186/I_May_Be_Tiny,_But_Im_IN-VIN-CIBLE!:_The_Gnome_Powersuit) is more to your taste? Summon a lightning elemental, step inside. Commence beatdown.

Deth Muncher
2009-12-22, 07:14 PM
Gear-wise, I do believe there's either a major magic item or minor Artifact in the DMG that turns you into Thor, if you've got the correct items. It's a warhammer that when combined with a Belt of Giant's Strength and Gauntlets of Ogre Strength, you shoot lightning out of yer arse or something. I'll look it up and edit this post. Although by the time I do, I'll have been ninja'd...oh, I'll say 5 times.


Edit: TADA! It's THIS (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#hammerofThunderbolts) hammer. Good luck getting one. It's a minor Artifact.

JerichoPenumbra
2009-12-23, 03:16 AM
You could try playing a Dragon Samurai keyed to a blue or bronze dragon. It's in the miniatures handbook.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-12-23, 03:20 AM
Dragonfire Adept makes for a decent Gish. Sure, no spellcasting, but with Bronze heretage, you get to toss out all the lightning you want to, plus still be a 3/4 BAB class with UMD as a class skill.

Warlock also gets a lightning-based Eldritch Essence invocation, I believe. Go nuts with unlimited lightning blasting, plus again 3/4 BAB, and UMD as a class skill (and Take 10 on UMD checks, so you never fail to use a Wand of Divine Power in a punch). Eldritch Glaive + Lightning Essence = HUGE BLADE OF PURE LIGHTNING CLEAVING YOUR FOES IN MELEE!!! Can you get more badass than that?

Thrice Dead Cat
2009-12-23, 03:36 AM
Dragonfire Adept makes for a decent Gish. Sure, no spellcasting, but with Bronze heretage, you get to toss out all the lightning you want to, plus still be a 3/4 BAB class with UMD as a class skill.

Warlock also gets a lightning-based Eldritch Essence invocation, I believe. Go nuts with unlimited lightning blasting, plus again 3/4 BAB, and UMD as a class skill (and Take 10 on UMD checks, so you never fail to use a Wand of Divine Power in a punch). Eldritch Glaive + Lightning Essence = HUGE BLADE OF PURE LIGHTNING CLEAVING YOUR FOES IN MELEE!!! Can you get more badass than that?

Minor nitpick, but I thought that the Glaive prevented adding any other shapes or essences to the blast. I may well be mistaken, to be fair.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-12-23, 03:38 AM
Minor nitpick, but I thought that the Glaive prevented adding any other shapes or essences to the blast. I may well be mistaken, to be fair.

It's a Shape Invocation. You can't use any other Shape invocation, but you *CAN* use an Eldritch Essence invocation with it.

Thrice Dead Cat
2009-12-23, 03:39 AM
It's a Shape Invocation. You can't use any other Shape invocation, but you *CAN* use an Eldritch Essence invocation with it.

Ah, okay. Good to hear; for some reason, I thought the Glaive specially mentioned preventing adding anything else to it.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-12-23, 03:45 AM
Ah, okay. Good to hear; for some reason, I thought the Glaive specially mentioned preventing adding anything else to it.

Just went over it again... says nothing about not combining it with an Eldritch Essence invocation. You may be confusing it with the fact that you cannot combine it with damage from any weapon you might already have equipped, like Hideous Blow.

Thrice Dead Cat
2009-12-23, 03:47 AM
Just went over it again... says nothing about not combining it with an Eldritch Essence invocation. You may be confusing it with the fact that you cannot combine it with damage from any weapon you might already have equipped, like Hideous Blow.

Possibly. I've only glanced at it occasionally, knowing that it's what Hideous Blow wishes it could be.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-12-23, 03:49 AM
Possibly. I've only glanced at it occasionally, knowing that it's what Hideous Blow wishes it could be.

Yea, plus extra reach to keep the sharp pointies at bay, and iterative attacks for extra damage output.

The only problem is that as a spell-like ability rather than an actual spell, I'm not sure if Born of Three Thunders can be applied to it.

EDIT: As BoTT is a Metamagic feat, it cannot be applied to a SLA, *however*, as it has an LA +0, a generous GM might allow you to apply it to a lightning-based SLA if you ask nicely. It's nowhere near as broke as Hellfire Warlock or heck, even Utterdark + Eldritch Glaive (multiple negative levels FTW). Which would be really neat with a Warforged (use Mithral Body for your body plating to be considered Light armor, which hinders a Warlock not at all), which is immune to Dazing.

Cyclocone
2009-12-23, 03:59 AM
Noone has suggested Lightning Maces?

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-12-23, 04:34 AM
Noone has suggested Lightning Maces?

That's not lightning-based... that's cheese based...

Eloel
2009-12-23, 06:27 AM
You can also play an Electrokineticist found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e).

It's quite lightning-based, and quite gish-y...

Kobold-Bard
2009-12-23, 07:00 AM
You can also play an Electrokineticist found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e).

It's quite lightning-based, and quite gish-y...

DAMN YOU!!! Beat me to it :smalltongue:

Seriously though there's also this homebrew Jade-Phoenix Psion (http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/topic/15276/t/Jade-Phoenix-Mage-Variant-for-Psionics.html) if you wanted to combine electrokineticist with Martial Adeptery perhaps.

BooNL
2009-12-23, 08:36 AM
If no-one's mentioned it yet, you could also go for a Dragonfire Inspiration Bard.

If you have the proper feats, you're able to choose lightning damage for you DFI. Imagine every strike fueled with at least 3d6 lightning! Add Lightning Maces or Greater Mighty Wallop to taste!

AtwasAwamps
2009-12-23, 11:25 AM
Dragonfire Adept makes for a decent Gish. Sure, no spellcasting, but with Bronze heretage, you get to toss out all the lightning you want to, plus still be a 3/4 BAB class with UMD as a class skill.


Doesn't DFA have wizard BAB?

RagnaroksChosen
2009-12-23, 11:33 AM
You can also play an Electrokineticist found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e).

It's quite lightning-based, and quite gish-y...

its great with wilder,

wilder melee gish with electrokineticist can be fun.