PDA

View Full Version : 3.5 Paladin...



Evard
2009-12-21, 10:21 PM
While playing or even looking over DnD 3.5 I never really liked the Paladin much and always felt them to be inferior to most other classes, not because they are but more of a personal bias lol. But now that I've played a paladin in DDO I'm starting to like the paladin (although some changes between DDO and DnD 3.5 make it nicer)

I think if I ever played another 3.5 campy i would want to tweak the paladin a bit like letting Smite Evil be more of a per encounter type deal. Also changing the remove disease from per week to per day...

Would these changes be feasible? I'm not trying to over power the paladin just make him a tad more flavorful/useful ^ - ^

Woodsman
2009-12-21, 10:22 PM
Dude, that doesn't even come close to making the paladin more powerful.

Compared to the potential of a full caster, you've essentially powered up the paladin by about .1%

absolmorph
2009-12-21, 10:25 PM
I don't think you need to worry about overpowering the paladin.
As for those being really major, it depends on how often they'll be used. I haven't used Smite Evil on my paladin, but he also hasn't had fought many enemies, and those that he's faced have been neutral.

Temotei
2009-12-21, 10:25 PM
Dude, that doesn't even come close to making the paladin more powerful.

Compared to the potential of a full caster, you've essentially powered up the paladin by about .1%

Don't compare improvements to a full caster's power. Aim for something...balanced. Your suggestions are fine.

I've always disliked the paladin class because you get five levels of stuff. Then it just drops off. You're better off taking levels in cleric after that, or fighter maybe.

Mr.Bookworm
2009-12-21, 10:26 PM
Fax did a really good Paladin-fix a little while ago. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33551)

If you want something a little more in-line with the PHB Paladin, I remember seeing a very nice one done by a guy by the sobriquet of... OneWingedAngel, I think it was.

Though I've been unable to find it when I tried looking for it.

Tavar
2009-12-21, 10:32 PM
The rebalanced paladin (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19528002/The_Rebalanced_Paladin_Thread_2) is here.

Haven
2009-12-21, 10:42 PM
And there's always the Crusader, of course.

Mr.Bookworm
2009-12-21, 10:44 PM
Well, of course. But some people do have an odd aversion to ToB.


The rebalanced paladin is here.

That is indeed the one, and thank you.

But is it just me, or is everything past the Lay on Hands description missing?

EDIT: Also, a LG Knight (PHBII) can be pretty close to a Paladin.

absolmorph
2009-12-21, 10:52 PM
The rebalanced paladin (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19528002/The_Rebalanced_Paladin_Thread_2) is here.
Where are the abilities?
They're listed in the pseudo-table, but there's nothing to tell you what they do.

Tavar
2009-12-21, 10:54 PM
Hmm...looks like the wizards forum change has claimed another thread. Let me see if I can dig up a decent copy.

Thrice Dead Cat
2009-12-21, 10:58 PM
OP, have you considered ever using the Prestige Paladin? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin)

Bob
2009-12-21, 11:37 PM
I knew a friend to have smite only be available after the paladin detected an evil, and "marked" that evil for smiting. If the target was a fiend(or any particularly evil entity in the eyes of lawfulness and goodness) the smite would go off like a death attack.

On a side note, how does spirited charge work? I believe carrying around a lance and being on a horse could effectively triple your number of smites per day.

Claudius Maximus
2009-12-22, 01:16 AM
OP, have you considered ever using the Prestige Paladin? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin)

Take a dip into that, and take Battle Blessing. And Sword of the Arcane Order while you're at it.

But seriously, Prestige Paladin can cause a lot of problems. Even without that kind of nonsense, you're basically putting the name to full casters with one level in the class, or maybe 3, who get to use the whole Paladin spell list and all kinds of abilities designed for a class that isn't supposed to get higher than 4th level spells.

Thurbane
2009-12-22, 02:21 AM
If you don't mind thinking outside of the circle, how about a Binder/Knight of the Sacred Seal? If you bind the vestige Andras, you can Smite Good or Evil once every 5 rounds all day long.

When you can bind multiple vestiges, throw in Buer and you have immunity to disease, and a healing touch.

cheezewizz2000
2009-12-22, 04:23 AM
Just as it happens, I copy-pasta'd OneWinged4ngel's Paladin before the Wizard boards went skewiffy.

So here's (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19528002/The_Rebalanced_Paladin_Thread_2) the link to the Paladin Varient on the wizards' board.

And so I don't get accused of plagarism, or copyright infringement, or what ever else. I had no hand in writing any of this, and this is re-posted WITHOUT OneWinged4ngel's permission. All the work contained herein is the intellectual property of OneWinged4ngel, unless otherwise stated. Apart from all the OGL stuff. That belongs to Wizards of the Coast. Obviously.

So here's the character abilities and what they mean:

Detect Evil (Sp)
At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell.

Smite Evil (Su)
Once per encounter, a paladin may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per paladin level. If the paladin accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that encounter.

At 5th level, and at every five levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per encounter, as indicated on Table: The Paladin, to a maximum of five times per encounter at 20th level. An encounter is considered over when you do no strenuous action for 1 minute or more.

Divine Grace (Su)
At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws, up to a maximum of her class level.

Lay on Hands (Su)
Beginning at 2nd level, a paladin with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. She gains a pool of healing, which allows her to heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to her paladin level × her Charisma bonus. A paladin may choose to divide her healing among multiple recipients, and she doesn’t have to use it all at once. Using lay on hands is a standard action. A Paladin may refresh this pool with a full minute (10 rounds) of concentration and prayer. Refreshing the pool brings the Paladin's pool of healing back up to the maximum (Paladin level * Charisma Bonus). She may fill her healing pool a number of times per day equal to 1 + half her Charisma modifier (rounded down).

Alternatively, a paladin can use any or all of this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. The paladin decides how many of her daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature. The target may make a Will save (DC 10+1/2 Paladin Level+Cha) to negate the damage.

The paladin's Lay on Hands gains additional capabilities as she progresses in level as a paladin. The paladin may use all additional effects in conjunction with healing, as long as she spends enough points.

Switchable Auras
All auras except Aura of Good are switchable as a move action. You may have only one aura other than Aura of Good active at a given time. These auras function while the paladin is conscious, but not while the paladin is unconscious or dead. The paladin's auras only affect her allies, and not the paladin herself.

Aura of Courage (Ex)
At 3rd level, the paladin may exude an aura of courage that inspires her allies. Each ally within 30 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects. Aura of Courage's bonuses scale by level. At level 8, allies gain +6 to saves against fear, and a +1 morale bonus to attack rolls. At level 13, allies gain +8 to saves against fear, and a +2 morale bonus to attack rolls. At level 18, allies gain immunity to fear, and +3 morale bonus to attack rolls. This is a switchable Aura.

Hero's Courage (Ex)
Beginning at 3rd level, a paladin is immune to fear (magical or otherwise).

Divine Health (Ex)
At 3rd level, a paladin gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases.

Turn Undead (Su)
When a paladin reaches 4th level, she gains the supernatural ability to turn undead. She may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 2 + her Charisma modifier. She turns undead as a cleric of her level-3.

Specialization
Upon reaching 5th level, a paladin may choose any of three abilities representing three different specializations: Charging Smite (Aggressive), Special Mount (Mounted), and Argent Bastion (Defensive)


-Argent Bastion
The paladin gains a number of abilities as she rises in level.
Level Ability
5th Shield Ward
8th Cover
11th Retribution
15th Divine Wall

->Shield Ward
The Paladin gains Shield Ward as a bonus feat, even if the paladin does not meet the prerequisites.

->Cover (Ex)
Once per round, as long as the paladin is wielding a shield (and is not flatfooted or otherwise prevented from taking action), the paladin may interpose herself between an adjacent ally and an incoming attack as an immediate action. The paladin absorbs all damage the damage from this single attack, and any additional effects it might have (such as something requiring a save, etc). You must decide to use this ability after the attacker determines the attack has succeeded but before she rolls damage.

->Retribution
The paladin gains Retribution* as a bonus feat, even if she does not meet the prerequisites.

->Divine Wall (Su)
As long as the paladin wields a shield, her square blocks line of effect for all effects. For example, if allies hid behind the paladin when a dragon used its breath weapon from the opposite side, it would only hit the paladin.


-Charging Smite
The Paladin deals double damage when she charges and uses a smite evil attack.

-Special Mount (Sp)
The paladin gains the service of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed to serve her in her crusade against evil. This mount is usually a heavy warhorse (for a Medium paladin) or a warpony (for a Small paladin).

As full-round action, a paladin may magically call her mount from the celestial realms in which it resides. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the paladin’s level. The mount immediately appears adjacent to the paladin and remains until dismissed. The mount is the same creature each time it is summoned, though the paladin may release a particular mount from service.

Each time the mount is called, it appears with the same hp it had previously, as well as any other effects it may have had (though some may have worn off because of their duration). Whether the mount is with you or not, things like poison run their course. The mount also appears wearing or carrying any gear it had when it was last dismissed. Calling a mount is a conjuration (calling) effect.

When the paladin rests for 8 hours (or long enough to restore his spells), the mount is restored to full hp.

Should the paladin’s mount die, it immediately disappears, leaving behind any equipment it was carrying. The paladin may not summon another mount for thirty days or until she gains a paladin level, whichever comes first, even if the mount is somehow returned from the dead. During this thirty-day period, the paladin takes a -1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.

The paladin’s mount is superior to a normal mount of its kind and has special powers, as described below. The standard mount for a Medium paladin is a heavy warhorse, and the standard mount for a Small paladin is a warpony. Another kind of mount, such as a riding dog (for a halfling paladin) or a Large shark (for a paladin in an aquatic campaign) may be allowed as well.

A paladin’s mount is treated as a magical beast, not an animal, for the purpose of all effects that depend on its type (though it retains an animal’s HD, base attack bonus, saves, skill points, and feats).

Panacean Touch (Su)
Upon reaching 6th level, whenever a paladin expends at least 10 points of healing from her lay on hands she may remove poison from any person she touches, and whenever she spends at least 20 points of healing she may remove disease from any person she touches. This is in addition to hit points restored.

Bonus Feats
At 7th level, and again at 14th level, the Paladin gains a bonus feat. At each such oppurtunity, a paladin may choose any Smite feat*, or a feat drawn from the following list. If a feat is labelled with "Aggressive", "Defensive", or "Mounted", then that feat may only be chosen by a paladin of the corresponding specialization.

Divine Cleansing (CW)
Divine Might (CW)
Divine Resistance (CW)
Divine Shield (CW)
Divine Vigor (CW)
Sacred Vengeance (CW)
Extra Smiting*
Divine Armor (PHB II)
Divine Justice (PHB II)
Shield Specialization (Defensive) (PHB II)
Armor Specialization (Defensive) (PHB II)
Agile Shield Fighter (Defensive) (PHB II)
Active Shield Defense (Defensive) (PHB II)
Improved Shield Bash (Defensive)

Mounted Combat (Mounted)
Mounted Archery (Mounted)
Ride-By Attack (Mounted)
Spirited Charge (Mounted)
Trample (Mounted)

Intimidating Strike (Aggressive) (PHB II)
Power Attack (Aggressive)
Cleave (Aggressive)
Great Cleave (Aggressive)
Weapon Focus (Aggressive)


Aura of Devotion (Ex)
Upon reaching 8th level, the Paladin may exude an Aura of Devotion. While this ability is active, the Paladin grants a +1 morale bonus to AC to all allies within 30 feet. At level 13, this bonus increases to +2. At level 18, this bonus increases to +3. This is a switchable aura.

Revitalizing Touch (Su)
Beginning at 9th level The Paladin can use her Lay on Hands ability to remove ability damage from a person she touches when she heals at least 5 points per point of ability damage to be removed (It is possible for only a portion of ability damage to be restored if the paladin does not spend enough to cure them all). This is in addition to hit points restored.

Vigilance (Su)
Upon reaching 11th level, the Paladin's ability to detect evil increases. When she uses her Detect Evil ability, the area of effect is a 60-foot radius centered on the Paladin, rather than a 60-foot cone.

Refreshing Touch (Su)
Beginning at 12th level Paladin can remove exhaustion, fatigue,sickness, and nausea with a touch whenever she spends at least 10 points from her lay on hands pool. This is in addition to hit points restored.

Aura of Resolve (Ex)
Beginning at 13th level, the paladin gains Aura of Resolve. While this ability is active, the Paladin grants the ability to reroll one Fortitude save every round to any ally within a 30ft radius of her. The decision to reroll must be made after the roll is made but before the result is declared. This is a switchable Aura.

Break Enchantment (Su)
Beginning at 16th level, the Paladin can break an enchantment with a touch whenever she expends at least 40 points of healing from her lay on hands ability. Her caster level for the purpouse of this effect is equal to her paladin caster level, just as if she had actually cast the Break Enchantment spell. This is in addition to hit points restored.

Constant Vigilance (Su)
Upon reaching 17th level, the Paladin is always vigilant for any signs of Evil, and her eyes begin to glow with an inner light. Her Detect Evil no longer requires any concentration to maintain, and has an unlimited duration.

Aura of Faith (Ex)
At 18th level, the paladin gains Aura of Faith. While this ability is active, the Paladin grants the ability to reroll one Will save every round to any one ally within a 30ft radius of her. The decision to reroll must be made after the roll is made but before the result is declared. This is a switchable Aura.

Energizing Touch (Su)
Beginning at 19th level, Paladin may remove negative levels from a subject whenever she spends at least 15 points from her lay on hands pool per negative level the target is afflicted with (It is possible for only a portion of negative levels to be restored if the paladin does not spend enough to cure them all). This is in addition to hit points restored.

A Hero Never Falls (Ex)
At 20th level, the paladin's sheer strength of will drives her on when death would claim lesser men. Once per day when a paladin would be reduced to 0 or less hp or otherwise killed (such as by a death effect), she instead is reduced to 1 hp. If the paladin would be killed by having an ability score reduced to zero, that score is instead reduced to 1.


Spells - Incidently, if someone could tell me how to get a table on these boards, I'd be grateful.
Spells:
Beginning at 4th level, a Paladin gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the Paladin spell list. A paladin must choose and prepare her spells in advance (see below).
To prepare or cast a spell, a paladin must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Paladin’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the Paladin’s Charisma modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a paladin can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Paladin Spells Per Day. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score. When Table: Paladin Spells Per Day indicates that the Paladin gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, she gains only the bonus spells she would be entitled to based on her Charisma score for that spell level. The Paladin does not have access to any domain spells or granted powers, as a cleric does.

A Paladin prepares and casts spells the way a cleric does, though she cannot lose a prepared spell to cast
a cure spell in its place. A paladin may prepare and cast any spell on the Paladin spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily prayer.
Through 3rd level, a Paladin has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, her caster level is her Paladin level minus 3.

The Paladin spells per day
Level 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
1 - - - -
2 - - - -
3 - - - -
4 0 - - -
5 1 - - -
6 2 - - -
7 2 0 - -
8 3 1 - -
9 3 2 - -
10 3 2 0 -
11 4 3 1 -
12 4 3 2 -
13 4 3 2 0
14 4 4 3 1
15 5 4 3 2
16 5 4 3 2
17 5 4 4 3
18 5 5 4 3
19 5 5 4 3
20 6 5 4 4


Code of Conduct
Code of Conduct
A paladin must be of Lawful Good alignment, and abide by a higher standard of morals and honor than the average Good-aligned person. Indeed, she is the paragon of heroic Good, drawn to a higher cause. Truly she is a person of high calibre, moral and otherwise.

There is a code of conduct presented in the PHB, but it really is better classified as an example of a generic paladin's vows and code. However, in your game being a paladin may mean quite a different thing altogether! After all, not all settings are the same, nor are all paladins. They serve various causes and deities, and the nature of Good and Evil is not always so stereotypically straightforward in all settings. Your code should represent the beliefs of your church or cause or whatever it is you, as a paladin, fight for!
Talk with your DM about what it means to be a paladin in your campaign, and the implications of it. If you are the DM, consider this, and what it really to be the paragon of good in your campaign. It should be noted that a single mistake or lack of perfection should not make a paladin fall. Indeed, is it not the lack of perfection and ultimately human(oid) nature of such a heroic figure that makes him all the more endearing and, truly, notable in calibre? After all, any old celestial can be perfect, but a man has to work for it.
Instead, the paladin falls from grace if she grossly violates her code (as stated, yet all too often overlooked, in the PHB. This means that some minor infraction would *not* make the Paladin fall), or if she changes alignment from Lawful Good. Your alignment should be your overall personality and outlook, not the result of the last action you took (although that last action *could* be considered to grossly violate the paladin's code, of course. The paladin's code is not synonymous with alignment). It should be extremely rare for a single act to alter your alignment, and it certainly shouldn't be so if the act was not done with wrongful intentions. Alignment changes should usually be the result of fairly consistent behavior of a character.

Ex-Paladins

A paladin who ceases to be lawful good or grossly violates her code loses all paladin spells and abilities. She may not progress any farther in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate.

Like a member of any other class, a paladin may be a multiclass character without hindrance.

Of course, it would seem that existing Paladin PrCs wouldn't fit well with the Rebalanced Paladin. One might ask "Hey, how does it make sense to get 2/encounter smites then get 1/day?" Fortunately for you, the Rebalanced Paladin was designed with easy adaptation in mind! For many prestige classes, adaptation is actually quite simple. Spellcasting doesn't need to be altered, as it continues to stay at "+1 per caster level." Fixing smite progressions is as simple as saying "You gain it per encounter, instead of per day." Those are the mainstays of the Rebalanced Paladin's power, and PrCs tend to give good benefits to make up for the loss of auras and Lay on Hands/specialization advancement. This is most of the work already for many paladin PrCs. In the case of abilities that are very similar to Smite Evil, smite feats should generally be allowed to apply (e.g. other Smite (alignment) feats). Indeed, even if the flavor is something like "Smite Good," it is a simple matter to reflavor them all saying "unholy" instead of "holy." If a class offers Lay on Hands advancement, just let it count as paladin levels for the sake of adding curative abilities, and replace the Lay on Hands text for the Prestige Class with the Lay on Hands description here.

For a few, however, you may want to make some adjustments. For example, you may want to say that a paladin PrC focused on leadership continues to advance auras, or you might decide that an aggressive PrC should allow the paladin to continue to advance his Charging Smite ability. These really are fairly minor adjustments that aren't strictly nescessary, and really are things you should be able to handle as a DM.


New Feats by OneWinged4ngel
New Feats

Smite feats are designed to give added options and versatility for the paladin during combat. Quite simply, more options makes combat more dynamic, interesting, and fun for the player. For the most part, Smite feats are weaker than a simple normal Smite Evil attack when fighting a single evil foe, and this is completely intentional. Smite feats are instead useful in other situations. All smite feats work on foes of any alignment unless otherwise noted, and as such help the paladin to contribute more in combats against things like constructs, oozes, or an angry tyrannosaurus. In the case of Conviction, for example, you get basically half the benefit of Smite Evil against any foe. Additionally, certain smite feats are more useful than a smite in unique situations, allowing a paladin to be more effective in more situations. For example, against multiple foes, Judgment can carve a swath through weaker enemies.
Smite feats are designed much like maneuvers in Tome of Battle. Most of them are related to a single, offensive attack with an instantaneous effect, or at least one that doesn't last for more than one round. The idea is basically that things like timed buffs are the domain of Divine feats. If you intend to design your own smite feats, keep a few things in mind:
1) Smite feats probably shouldn't have a duration that lasts very long, and should be related to some sort of action directly related to combat.
2) Smite feats should generally be weaker than a normal Smite Evil attack against a single evil foe.

New Feat Type: [Smite]
A smite feat allows you to channel the holy energy used to smite evil enemies iin new ways, expanding your options in combat.
All smite feats require the user to expend uses of their Smite Evil ability. Only one use of Smite Evil may be applied to any single attack. All Smite feats are considered Supernatural abilities, and cannot be used in any situation that such abilities would not function (such as in an antimagic field)

Celestial Lightning [Smite]
A fearsome bolt of lightning streaks from the sky and strikes your upraised weapon, arcing out in all directions and striking down surrounding foes.
Prerequisite: Holy Wrath (Electricity), Smite 3/encounter
Benefit: By expending a smite attempt as a full-round action, you raise your weapon above your head, and a lightning bolt strikes your weapon before arcing off in all directions to hit other targets. This is treated as a Chain Lightning Spell, with a caster level equal to your level in smiting classes. The weapon is considered the initial target (but takes no damage).
Note: Alternatively, the player may decide that the initial target is any other piece of equipment, or the character's body, as this is purely a flavor element.

Consecration [Smite]
You channel fearsome holy energy into your weapon and slams it into the earth, unleashing the stored energy into the ground and uplifting the earth around you in a powerful shockwave.
Prerequisite: Smite 4/encounter, Str 15
Benefit: As a standard action, by expending a use of your smites per encounter, you can unleash a powerful surge of holy energy into the ground. You immediately make a bull rush attempt against all enemies within a 30ft radius of you, for the purposes of this attack, you are considered one size category largrer than normal, and add your Charisma to the check rather than strength. Enemies may move further than 5 feet as if you had bullrushed and moved with them. Additionally, all enemies affected take damage equal to twice your Charisma modifier.

Conviction [Smite]
Holy energy fills you with righteous conviction, driving you forward in battle.
Prerequisite: Smite 1/encounter, Hero's Courage class feature, Cha 15
Benefit: By expending a use of your Smite Evil ability, you gain a morale bonus on your attack roll equal to your Charisma bonus for a single attack.

Divine Cross [Smite]
Prerequisite: Two Weapon Fighting, Smite 1/encounter
Benefit: When you are wielding two weapons (or a double weapon) and use a smite attempt, you may instead make a smite attempt with both one primary weapon attack and one offhand attack, but only expend one use of your smites per encounter.

Holy Wrath [Smite]
You summon holy energy in order to smite your foes.
Prerequisite: Smite 2/encounter, Cha 13
Benefit: As a standard action, you may expend a smite Evil attempt in order to create a burst of holy energy that damages a single target. The energy deals damage equal to 1d6 per level of smiting class, and the target get a reflex save (DC 10+1/2 paladin level+Cha) for half damage. Half of the damage dealt is of either Fire, Electricity, or Ice damage (Chosen at the time the feat is taken), and the other half is pure divine energy, which is not subject to energy resistance.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. Each time, the paladin's holy wrath may correspond to a different element. For example, a paladin could take the Holy Wrath (Electricity) and then take Holy Wrath (Fire).

Inspiration [Smite]
You inspire your allies by channelling a divine prescence.
Prerequisite: Smite 2/encounter, Cha 15, switchable aura class feature
Benefit: You may expend a smite attempt as a swift action to activate this ability. For the next round, the Paladin's switchable aura's radius is trippled, and any bonuses are doubled. In the case of a benefit that may normally be used once per round, it may be used twice this round.

Judgment [Smite]
You channel pure holy energy into your weapon, and unleash a holy explosion with a swing, hurtling forward in a line through your enemies.
Prerequisite: Cha 15, Smite 3/encounter, Holy Wrath
Benefit: You may expend a use of your Smite Evil ability to use this ability as a standard action. You call forth a violent burst of holy energy, dealing 1d6 sacred damage per level of smiting class in a 5 foot wide line. The length of the line is equal to 25+5 feet/2 levels of smiting class. Targets get a reflex save (DC 10+1/2 paladin level+Cha) for half damage.

Reckoning [Smite]
You channel powerful holy energy into an overwhelmingly forceful blow that stuns your enemy.
Prerequisite: Str 13, Smite 2/encounter
Benefit: You may expend one use of your Smite Evil as a standard action in order to make a single melee attack. An enemy struck by this attack must make a Fort save (DC 10+1/2 level+Cha modifier) or be dazed for one round (In addition to taking normal damage from the attack).

Retribution [Smite]
You channel holy energy into your shield which is unleashed when you are attacked.
Prerequisite: Smite Evil 3/encounter, Shield Specialization
Benefit: As an immediate action when an opponent attempts to strike you, you may expend a use of your Smite Evil to add your Charisma bonus to your Shield Bonus to AC against this attack. If the opponent's attack misses, they are automatically knocked back 5 feet by the unleashed holy energy and take damage equal to twice your Charisma modifier. The movement provokes an attack of oppurtunity from anyone but you.

Vindication [Smite]
By channelling holy energy into your weapon, it can cross the nexus between planes and harm ethereal foes.
Prerequisite: Cha 13, Smite Evil 1/encounter
Benefit: You may expend a Smite Evil use to give all attacks for 1 round the benefit of the Ghost Touch weapon enhancement.

Holy Arrow [General]
Your presence and faith guide your arrows true. Your faith is not limited to the single-minded close combat of your peers.
Prerequisite: Smite Evil 1/encounter, Point Blank Shot
Benefit: You may use the Smite (alignment) ability with ranged weapons.

Extra Lay on Hands [General]
You are a focused healer, and are able to draw upon more holy power in order to heal yourself and your allies.
Prerequisite: Wis 13, Lay on Hands class feature
Benefit: You may refresh your Lay on Hands pool one extra time per day.

Extra Smiting [General]
You can make more smite attacks.
Prerequisites: Smite ability, base attack bonus +4
Benefit: When you take this feat, you gain one extra smite per encounter.
Note: This replaces the Extra Smiting feat written in Complete Warrior, which does not apply to the Rebalanced Paladin


And the Paladin's Mount
Paladin’s Mount (mounted Paladins only)
Paladin Level Bonus HD Natural Armour Adj Strength Adj Int Special
5-7 +2 +4 +1 6 Empathic Link, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Share Saving Throws
8-10 +4 +6 +2 7 Improved Speed
11-14 +6 +8 +3 8 Command Creatures of its kind
15+ +8 +10 +4 9 Spell Resistance

Paladin’s Mount Basics
Use the base statistics for a creature of the mount’s kind, but make changes to take into account the attributes and characteristics summarized on the table and described below.

Bonus HD
Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Extra Hit Dice improve the mount’s base attack and base save bonuses. A special mount’s base attack bonus is equal to that of a cleric of a level equal to the mount’s HD. A mount has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal’s HD). The mount gains additional skill points or feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice.

Natural Armor Adj.
The number on the table is an improvement to the mount’s existing natural armor bonus.

Str Adj.
Add this figure to the mount’s Strength score.

Int
The mount’s Intelligence score.

Empathic Link (Su)
The paladin has an empathic link with her mount out to a distance of up to 1 mile. The paladin cannot see through the mount’s eyes, but they can communicate empathically.

Note that even intelligent mounts see the world differently from humans, so misunderstandings are always possible.

Because of this empathic link, the paladin has the same connection to an item or place that her mount does, just as with a master and his familiar.

Improved Evasion (Ex)
When subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, a mount takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and half damage if the saving throw fails.
Share Spells

At the paladin’s option, she may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) she casts on herself also affect her mount.

The mount must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the mount if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the mount again even if it returns to the paladin before the duration expires. Additionally, the paladin may cast a spell with a target of "You" on her mount (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself. A paladin and her mount can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the mount’s type (magical beast).

Share Saving Throws
For each of its saving throws, the mount uses its own base save bonus or the paladin’s, whichever is higher. The mount applies its own ability modifiers to saves, and it doesn’t share any other bonuses on saves that the master might have.

Improved Speed (Ex)
The mount’s base speed increases by 10 feet.

Command (Sp)
Once per day per two paladin levels of its master, a mount can use this ability to command other any normal animal of approximately the same kind as itself (for warhorses and warponies, this category includes donkeys, mules, and ponies), as long as the target creature has fewer Hit Dice than the mount. This ability functions like the command spell, but the mount must make a DC 21 Concentration check to succeed if it’s being ridden at the time. If the check fails, the ability does not work that time, but it still counts against the mount’s daily uses. Each target may attempt a Will save (DC 10 + ½ paladin’s level + paladin’s Cha modifier) to negate the effect.

Spell Resistance (Ex)
A mount’s spell resistance equals its master’s paladin level + 5. To affect the mount with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the mount’s spell resistance.

Drako_Beoulve
2009-12-22, 04:35 AM
Gray Guard: Free your Smite Evil into smite anything, plus no code of honor :smallcool:.

Sword of the arcane order: For Arcane power.

Elemental Warrior (Earth, my fav): To boost AC and do some cool things

Supermount: For an Oriented Mount build.

These are some options to make your paladin out of standar with some Fun

AslanCross
2009-12-22, 04:39 AM
The biggest problem of the 3.5 Paladin is that it doesn't get anything useful past Lv 5. My favorite fixes:

1. Tome of Battle's crusader. Better tanking, better healing, more righteous fury. Not for everyone, sadly, but it's the best fix mechanically. Multiclasses well. Can get into the really powerful Ruby Knight Vindicator PrC easily. No casting, though.

2. OneWingedAngel's rebalanced paladin. More options than the default paladin. More ways of using Smite Evil, and retains spellcasting. Multiclasses well.

3. Fax celestis's Mantle Paladin. Has allowances for all four extreme alignments. The problem with it is that it doesn't multiclass well, since almost all of its abilities are level-scaling (which can be a good or bad thing).

4. Spell Compendium and Complete Champion introduce a bunch of really good Paladin spells.


Gray Guard: Free your Smite Evil into smite anything, plus no code of honor :smallcool:.



Honestly, I find the Gray Guard rather overrated and misunderstood.
1. It actually does retain the Code of Conduct until level 9, just that it's easier for the cleric to cast Atonement on you when you fall.
2. Sacrament of Trust, the "you cannot fall" ability, is based on the assumption that you are acting as an exemplar of your order and not as a colossal baby-eating jerk.

Thus, the Gray Guard is not based on "be a bad little paladin and get away with it;" it's based on "I'M PREPARED TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO KEEP PEOPLE ALIVE!"

If you really don't want to play a paragon of honor and virtue, then don't play a paladin. If you just want to be a guy who cuts people up, play any other melee class. If you want to be a divinely-sanctioned, brutal face-breaker, play an evil cleric or crusader, or use one of the UA variants.

Hal
2009-12-22, 11:19 AM
I'm actually a fan of the Bard/Paladin combo. Abuse the crap out of the Cha-synergy (Paladin/Sorc is also popular).

Of course, it's debated whether you're better off going Bard5/Paladin15 or Bard15/Paladin5. Just depends on what you want out of it. I like the latter, as you can use a paladin ACF to squeeze a bonus feat out of the build.

Aldizog
2009-12-22, 11:49 AM
I'm actually a fan of the Bard/Paladin combo. Abuse the crap out of the Cha-synergy (Paladin/Sorc is also popular).

Of course, it's debated whether you're better off going Bard5/Paladin15 or Bard15/Paladin5. Just depends on what you want out of it. I like the latter, as you can use a paladin ACF to squeeze a bonus feat out of the build.
I would love to play this. With Perform (Oratory) as the favored skill, and Inspire Courage taking the form of drawing the sword and uttering some cheesy-but-heroic paladinly challenge.

Optimystik
2009-12-22, 11:55 AM
If you don't mind thinking outside of the circle, how about a Binder/Knight of the Sacred Seal? If you bind the vestige Andras, you can Smite Good or Evil once every 5 rounds all day long.

When you can bind multiple vestiges, throw in Buer and you have immunity to disease, and a healing touch.

I would bind and/or champion Savnok - +4 Fullplate with fortification ftw.

Evard
2009-12-22, 02:58 PM
I mostly like the core rule books with a few exceptions, so although I've looked at different classes from other books I don't deal with them to much. It almost feels that with the newer off branch books that they are trying to improve the classes already there instead of actually taking the classes that were underpowered and renewing them.

But anyways

Yeah i love some of these Paladin builds and makes the Paladin more playable in terms of a tabletop game.

Zaq
2009-12-22, 03:08 PM
With the advent of the SpC and Complete Champion, the Paladin got a big boost in the form of a bunch of actually decent spells (and Battle Blessing, which is huge, since it gives them an action advantage AND gives them an in-class use for swift actions, which they previously lacked). The problem is that they have far too few spells per day for this to actually be worthwhile... it's a nice perk, but it benefits Chameleons and Archivists more than the paladins themselves. Still, I think that it's a worthwhile effort to try to rebalance the paladin by taking advantage of the already existing spells that they get. Maybe give them a progression closer to that of the Duskblade? That alone won't push them up to Tier 3, but it'll help. Let's face it, all that a paladin gets after level 6 (it used to be level 5, but Complete Mage gave them Remove Curse and Break Enchantment as SLAs instead of the useless Remove Disease, which is not totally useless, even though it needs to be 1/day instead of 1/week) is more spells... but if the spells are good enough, I don't think that this is necessarily a problem. We just need to give them ENOUGH spells per day to actually accomplish something. I'm not sure what the best number per day would be, though.

Roderick_BR
2009-12-22, 03:14 PM
For starters? Give him a good Will Save, make his smites by encounter, as you said, take out Remove Disease, moving it to your spell list, and replace it with something more interesting, like the auras from the Marshall (use that Charisma bonus to pump up your party).
These alone would make you get a bit closer to a Dragon Stone/Write Raven crusader, without having to resort to Tome of Battle. And will finally pay off for those alignemnt restrictions.

And I second AslanCross: If you want to just be a divine magic user warrior, don't be a paladin.

Evard
2009-12-22, 03:31 PM
I could actually see the paladin getting spells earlier and let the paladin expend spells to use abilities like smite evil or remove disease. get rid of turn undead though.. i never liked how paladins get an ability that is more or less useless (as a cleric 4 levels lower ouch).

deuxhero
2009-12-22, 03:51 PM
Why do people need to make topics about fixing the Paladin when the Rebalanced Paladin has already done it? Sadly there is like one place that has kept it preserved from The Conception (It's in the Rebalanced Compendium on BG's homebrew forum) as far as I know.

Turning Undead is for either powering divine feats or trading for pounce (forgot what book allowed that).

Evard
2009-12-22, 05:43 PM
Did you read my original post? Also paladin's turn undead is to weak to be any real use.

I didn't know about the The Conception or how others have fixed the paladin while i also wasn't sure if certain changes would be alright to propose to a DM and make sure they didnt make the paladin to powerful or changed to much.

AslanCross
2009-12-22, 05:48 PM
Did you read my original post? Also paladin's turn undead is to weak to be any real use.

I didn't know about the The Conception or how others have fixed the paladin while i also wasn't sure if certain changes would be alright to propose to a DM and make sure they didnt make the paladin to powerful or changed to much.

Well, the core paladin is really really crappy. The Rebalanced paladin changed the least, while the Mantle paladin did change quite a bit. They're definitely not as strong as the Crusader, so I'd think a DM might be more willing to use them than Tome of Battle.

Turn Undead is used to power Divine Feats, which have been produced in a LOT of books. Basically you give up a single use of Turn Undead to activate an ability that usually runs off your charisma bonus. Divine Might, for example, gives you bonus damage on your attacks equal to your Charisma bonus. Divine Vigor gives you temporary HP and increased movement speed for a number of rounds equal to your charisma bonus. There are many more, but these are my favorites.

paddyfool
2009-12-22, 06:02 PM
EDIT: Also, a LG Knight (PHBII) can be pretty close to a Paladin.

Particularly if you start as a Paladin, and take whatever feat it is that allows class levels from the two to stack for class abilities and free multiclassing between them. You still get the MAD problems, however.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-12-22, 06:08 PM
Play a Crusader with a one-level dip into Incarnate for Detect Evil. Done.

Keld Denar
2009-12-22, 06:26 PM
You still get the MAD problems, however.

Not much MAD. Since you won't have many Pally levels, you're Wisdom won't really matter. Thus, you need Cha (for Pally and Knight Abilities), Con, and Str. Dex should be non-negative, or 12 at most. Int is likewise not terribly vital, and anything non-negative would be bonus.

So, 3 ability scores isn't too bad, better than a straight pally who needs 4.

Thurbane
2009-12-22, 08:06 PM
I would bind and/or champion Savnok - +4 Fullplate with fortification ftw.
Here's some Paladin like abilities granted by vesitges:
Agares (Fear Immunity) - a bit useless, since you get fear immunity from your sould guardian class ability anyway
Buer (Healing Gift)
Acererak (Detect Undead)
Andras (Mount)
Andras (Smite Good or Evil)
Tenebrous (Turn/Rebuke Undead)