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Arros Winhadren
2009-12-22, 04:40 AM
I've played a few 3.5 characters but I've never made a character that uses a reach weapon, which is something I've always wanted to do. I'm actually not too familiar with making martial characters, so I'm hoping I could get some suggestions around here. Is warblade a pretty solid class for making a spear-user? I definitely don't want to do the whole "spiked-chain lets me trip you for eternity" thing and I don't want to use a lance and rely on always having a mount nearby.

Short Haft in PHBII looked promising, but perhaps it's a trap.

Any tips for a total nub?


Thanks.

AslanCross
2009-12-22, 05:04 AM
Warforged is a good base character to use for a reached-weapon user, since they have a single natural weapon (thus it gets x1.5 strength bonus to damage), and switching a hand on and off the reach weapon is a free action.

It's hard to go wrong with Warblade; indeed if I'm not mistaken one could use Mithral tornado and Adamantine hurricane to great effect with the slam and the reach weapon (a glaive would be much better than a spear in this case due to higher base damage).

Now one of the most important advantages that reach weapons have is that you threaten a wider area, and thus can shut down more enemies by becoming an AOO machine. If you want an area control/tank build, multiclassing Knight with Crusader is an excellent way to go: you get Bulwark of Defense (your threatened area is considered Difficult Terrain), Vigilant Defender (enemies tumbling around you have to add your Knight level to their Tumble DCs), and Thicket of Blades (every hostile movement through your threatened area, even Five-foot steps, provoke AOOs).

Couple that with being able to execute maneuvers with both your glaive and your slam, Crusader damage pool, Constitution bonus, fortification, etc. and you'll come up with a very impressive melee powerhouse.

Blas_de_Lezo
2009-12-22, 05:49 AM
A fighter/warlock with Eldritch Glaive and Combat Reflexes is considered one of the best reach builds out there. Touch attack with reach?? oh yeah!!

Keld Denar
2009-12-22, 05:58 AM
Unless you are getting a natural attack for free with your race, consider using a Spiked Chain. Instead of sinking a feat into Short Haft or Improved Unarmed Strike to get an inferior close range attack, EWP: Spiked Chain gives you a much better close attack.

Granted, you could just use Spiked Gauntlets or Armor Spikes to forgo the feat requirement, but you can't PA with them, and they only get 1x Str bonus, plus you have to enchant them seperately.

For a straight up damage reach user, MOST of the time you can take a 5' step and attack as normal. For a more control oriented character, especially if you are using Standstill, you will want the biggest bang on all of your attacks, making the Spiked Chain the premier weapon of choice.

paddyfool
2009-12-22, 05:59 AM
Sticking to SRD material only, a guisarme is a nice choice for a reach weapon, especially if you have the feats to afford Combat Expertise -> Improved Trip -> Knockdown (and if you do, your party rogue will love you). And a spiked gauntlet is a nice cheap solution to the problems of reach, if a tad overused. Wherever possible, however, take a 5' step to use your main weapon rather than use the gauntlet, and try to position yourself so as to best enable this.

EDIT: Also, the Guisarme is less cheesy than the Spiked Chain, while at the same time requiring one less feat.

Bob
2009-12-22, 08:41 AM
I've always been under the impression that the intended advantage of reach came from the ability to attack "through" a more hearty ally, allowing for you to make melee attacks without having to acctually go into the melee.

AslanCross
2009-12-22, 08:49 AM
I've always been under the impression that the intended advantage of reach came from the ability to attack "through" a more hearty ally, allowing for you to make melee attacks without having to acctually go into the melee.

While that may have been the intention, it sure does not work that way in practice. Between monsters with high movement speeds, long reach, and the ability to just take a five-foot step around your enemy, tanks in 3.5 didn't really stop monsters from hurting the guys hiding behind the "tank" until the Knight and Crusader came along.

Saph
2009-12-22, 08:50 AM
I've always been under the impression that the intended advantage of reach came from the ability to attack "through" a more hearty ally, allowing for you to make melee attacks without having to acctually go into the melee.

Bad plan. They get cover from your attacks, and they can just 5' step around your ally every time they want to smack you.

Also, re Warblades, unfortunately the Mithral Tornado line doesn't work. It specifies adjacent enemies, so it's useless with a standard reach weapon. Warblades still make good reach weapon users, though - Steel Wind works just fine, as do all the other standard-action strikes, and having Tumble as a class skill is very handy.

AshDesert
2009-12-22, 09:05 AM
I'm going to echo the opinions here and say get a guisarme and at least the Improved Trip feat. Even if you don't want to rely on it, you can still have it for those times when you feel like doing something other than "I full attack, Power Attack for X". Spiked Chain is worth the feat over a guisarme and spiked gauntlet, but I personally don't like using swordchucks. Also, I definitely recommend Warblade, if only because they tend to have a high enough Int to get Combat Expertise. If, for some reason, you don't want Combat Expertise, or you don't want to use two feats on a tactic you don't want to rely on, I suggest a two level dip into Wolf Totem Barbarian (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#dragonTotemClassFeatur es) for a free Improved Trip. Add to that Rage 1/day (believe, once per day can come in handy) and Fast Movement, and it's actually a pretty good dip. The above information assumes you DM is not a jerkface and will allow UA ;)

Arros Winhadren
2009-12-23, 02:05 AM
Thanks guys! While I know that Spiked Chain is pretty good the flavor I'm going for is something like Mat Cauthon (not that I want to play Mat Cauthon, but he's a good example of what I want - a witty, skilled polearm user). I think I have a pretty good idea now of what to do.

I'm a little confused about Knockdown, isn't that a 3.0 feat? In general I try to avoid using 3.0 stuff in 3.5, simply because of power issues.

Lycanthromancer
2009-12-23, 02:19 AM
I would personally suggest something a bit gishy (it's a magical world, after all), and going for psychic warrior (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psychicWarrior.htm) with a one or two level dip in monk, along with the Talashtora feat (from Secrets of Sarlona; it allows monk to stack with psychic warrior for the purposes of several monk abilities). Take a glaive or guisarme, and rely on your monky poo-fling unarmed strike to reach adjacent foes. Use the expansion power to grow to Large (and later, Huge) size, and Combat Reflexes to hit and hurt, and you can trip without provoking on most enemies with your 20 ft+ reach (even more if you want to use EWP: whip and go for a dagger-whip, which is just like a normal whip except it's not useless...assuming your DM allows you to use expanded reach...which he should if he's not evil).

Alternately, psychic warrior with a warblade or crusader dip here and there, similar to above, except you use a spiked gauntlet or spiked armor (or be a race with a natural attack) to attack adjacent foes.

Really, psywars are absolutely awesome at dominating the battlefield through reach. Later you can even get metamorphosis (ie, psionic polymorph, but better) for all sorts of shenanigans. Get a psicrystal for even more fun.

Tavar
2009-12-23, 02:42 AM
Bad plan. They get cover from your attacks,


Doesn't that only apply against ranged attacks though? The rest of what you say is true, though.

Curmudgeon
2009-12-23, 03:15 AM
You could play a Favored Soul of Kossuth (FR deity). Kossuth's favored weapon is the spiked chain, so that will give you

Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain)
Weapon Focus (spiked chain)
Weapon Specialization (spiked chain)
for "free".