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RagnaroksChosen
2009-12-22, 09:24 AM
Just out of curiousity, are there any builds that have all creature types as favored enemy(or atleast enough favored enemies that cover90% of creature types)

I wonder how many we can get in a build any way...

at work atm but ill see if i can scrounge up any builds in a bit.

any way what does the playground think?

Edit:

Ok heres what i got so far.

half elf
Ranger 1 -construct
barbarian 1 -animal
paladin of freedom 1 -elemental
ranger 3 -undead
slayer 1 -psi
darkwood stalker 1 -orcs
scar enforcer 1 -elves/humans
Stone blessed(gnome) 3
giant slayer 1 -giant



1. expedius dodge
3. wild talent
6. devoted tracker
9.
12.
15.
18.

is there any class feature or feat out there that lets you change your favored enemy

The Gilded Duke
2009-12-22, 09:40 AM
Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but Stalker of Kharesh from Book of Exalted Deeds gains "Favored Enemy - Evil"

There is also a feat that gives you a bonus on power attack against favored Enemies somewhere, and the Scout/Ranger feat lets you skirmish creatures immune to criticals if they are your favored enemy.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-12-22, 09:56 AM
You can't cover every creature, but with a bit of cleverness, you can hit most of them. Stalker of...something(BoED) gets you FE:Evil, CArc gets you FE:Arcanist, which basically means everything the way they wrote it. Then just take Golems, Animals, and the other neutral types and you're good.

Zaq
2009-12-22, 03:13 PM
Knowledge Devotion. Done, or close enough.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-12-22, 03:17 PM
ya knowledge devotion with a ton a favored enemies would be fun.

Thurbane
2009-12-22, 09:12 PM
If you could work Chameleon into your build, you could use your floating feat for Extra Favored Enemy, and change it each day according to your needs. It's a 3.0 feat, though, so I'm not sure how legal it is.

Person_Man
2009-12-22, 10:29 PM
As has been mentioned, Stalker of Kharesh (BoED) gives you Favored Enemy Evil. Complete Mage has a Ranger alternate class feature or something that gives you Favored Enemy Arcanist (ie, anyone who casts arcane spells or spell-like abilities). Honestly, there's really no reason to go beyond that unless you're a Swift Hunter build. But if you wanted to make Favored Enemy your thing, you can also take the Favored Power Attack, Nemesis, and Wise to Your Ways feats, and the Extra Favored Enemy if you really need it.

Not the most optimal use of your levels or feats, but fluffy.

FMArthur
2009-12-22, 10:52 PM
Knowledge Devotion is what Favored Enemy should have been to begin with.

DragoonWraith
2009-12-22, 10:53 PM
Alternatively: Are there any builds that make FE bonuses especially meaningful? I mean, as opposed to trying to cover as many types as possible, I mean for a character who utterly destroys a given type of creature?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-12-22, 11:43 PM
Alternatively: Are there any builds that make FE bonuses especially meaningful? I mean, as opposed to trying to cover as many types as possible, I mean for a character who utterly destroys a given type of creature?There are PrCs that specialize in hunting certain types, but few of them actually bother with Favored Enemy.

Thurbane
2009-12-23, 12:10 AM
Leviathan Hunter is OK from memory.

Haven
2009-12-23, 12:19 AM
Alternatively: Are there any builds that make FE bonuses especially meaningful? I mean, as opposed to trying to cover as many types as possible, I mean for a character who utterly destroys a given type of creature?

Slayer might be what you're looking for, plus it's also really good besides that aspect: 9/10 manifester progression, d10 HP, full BAB, and complete immunity to nondetection and mind-affecting abilities (only works while psi-focused, but they even block Wish).

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2009-12-23, 03:00 AM
Yes, OP, I did that. I covered all the wierdly general FE types but there aren't enough class levels to hit non-evil outsiders or the humanoid types.


Alternatively: Are there any builds that make FE bonuses especially meaningful? I mean, as opposed to trying to cover as many types as possible, I mean for a character who utterly destroys a given type of creature?No, but swift hunter builds make having a FE actually useful (they can't block your rather small precision damage now).

In short, FEs are a non-casting, non-information nor action abuse class feature... so it sorta blows.

Coidzor
2009-12-23, 03:42 AM
We think there's one or two feats that if combined with the favored enemy: arcanists, or Favored enemy: evil can be quite the potent little thing, but we can't recall exactly.

Samb
2009-12-23, 10:40 AM
No one mentioned mortal slayer (hunter?) from BoVD which gives you FE: mortals. If it lives you get the bonus, I'm sure you can get more FE to cover the immortal ones like undead, outsiders and constructs (will affect warforged as they are classied as living constructs).

But the question is: how would FE: mortals affect Elans? Most abberations are mortal but Elans seem to live forever. So are they immortal the way sharks are or immortal the way gods are? If the former then should FE: mortals affect them?

Oh and isn't slayer's FE illithid? OP has it listed as psi..... that is the SRD version, but since this is DnD we are talking about, shouldn't we use the XPH instead of the SRD? Plus the flavor fits better IMO

Gamerlord
2009-12-23, 10:48 AM
There are PrCs that specialize in hunting certain types, but few of them actually bother with Favored Enemy.

Not that I know of, but I myself always pick something with a high CR as my first favored enemy, so that once I do start fighting that enemy, I have quite the bonus against it :smallamused: .

RagnaroksChosen
2009-12-23, 10:50 AM
Oh and isn't slayer's FE illithid? OP has it listed as psi..... that is the SRD version, but since this is DnD we are talking about, shouldn't we use the XPH instead of the SRD? Plus the flavor fits better IMO

We use SRD for our Psi that's why.

Raewyn
2009-12-23, 10:56 AM
Most aberrations are mortal but Elans seem to live forever. So are they immortal the way sharks are or immortal the way gods are?

A little off topic, but... could I get a citation on that one? :smalleek:

Samb
2009-12-23, 11:09 AM
A little off topic, but... could I get a citation on that one? :smalleek:

Something about rapid cell regeneration found on sharks, gators and some jellyfish that make them almost immortal. Sorry I can't provide any sources, but from I have read, it is almost impossbile to find one to die of old age.

Back on topic, I'm pretty sure FE: mortals would affect sharks...... just saying. So for any FE build mortal hunter should be on your list, unless you are not playing evil....

RagnaroksChosen
2009-12-23, 11:34 AM
Something about rapid cell regeneration found on sharks, gators and some jellyfish that make them almost immortal. Sorry I can't provide any sources, but from I have read, it is almost impossbile to find one to die of old age.

Back on topic, I'm pretty sure FE: mortals would affect sharks...... just saying. So for any FE build mortal hunter should be on your list, unless you are not playing evil....



I wish the FE specific feats... would work for all your FE's not just ones you choose.

Samb
2009-12-23, 11:54 AM
I wish the FE specific feats... would work for all your FE's not just ones you choose.

Oh I thought you were looking for a way to cover 90% of all creatures, I figured mortal hunter would fit, as most things die.

Hmm not a feat, but there is an item called pouch (or purse) of sealed souls in MIC that gives +2 bonuses to a specific critter type. Since it is a neck peice you could have multiple ones for each FE type, but same critter types don't stack.

ericgrau
2009-12-23, 12:05 PM
Just out of curiousity, are there any builds that have all creature types as favored enemy(or atleast enough favored enemies that cover90% of creature types)


It's called weapon specialization and greater weapon specialization, or "any generalist combat build a ranger can do, a fighter can do better". Favored enemy is best when you expect a certain kind of campaign, and even then it's best as a dip if you only want combat. Usually it's to give a little more combat ability in a mixed combat / utility class which is the ranger. You're best off finding a campaign with a common enemy type like undead and focusing on a high bonus on that one enemy, plus doing other ranger utility stuff to make up for the fact that you're still weaker even when fighting your most specialized favored enemy.

Ruinix
2009-12-23, 12:19 PM
Tactical Advantage. DR 335 pg 90. chose a FE and add the bonus to attack, skill checks, and any oposed check like disarm, trip, or bull rush.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-12-23, 12:26 PM
Oh I thought you were looking for a way to cover 90% of all creatures, I figured mortal hunter would fit, as most things die.

Hmm not a feat, but there is an item called pouch (or purse) of sealed souls in MIC that gives +2 bonuses to a specific critter type. Since it is a neck peice you could have multiple ones for each FE type, but same critter types don't stack.

I was... just all the post made me think about it...

Mortal, psi, and arcane and i think i would have every thing covered.

Flickerdart
2009-12-23, 12:37 PM
Nope, you still have nothing for, say, Undead Incarnum users, or Martial Adept Oozes.

jiriku
2009-12-23, 12:39 PM
A good favored enemy build that's highly effective...

From a DM's perspective, favored enemy is easy to optimize. For a lot of parties, favored enemy (humans) impacts 50-100% of the PCs. Combine that with Knowledge Devotion and maxed ranks in Knowledge (local), Improved Favored Enemy, Power Attack, and Favored Power Attack, with a high-threat weapon like a falchion and Improved Critical. A monster x/fighter 1/ranger 5 could swing a 16+ on Knowledge devotion and gain a total of +2 to hit/+9 damage, or I think around +0/+15 if using the Knowledge Devotion bonus for power attack, with a nasty 15-20 threat range. Put that on a bugbear or ogre for a CR 8 brute that deals 40+ damage on a full attack. Good times.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-12-23, 12:43 PM
Nope, you still have nothing for, say, Undead Incarnum users, or Martial Adept Oozes.

martial adept oozes... ROFL... almost fell out of my chair.

Samb
2009-12-23, 12:59 PM
I was... just all the post made me think about it...

Mortal, psi, and arcane and i think i would have every thing covered.

Undead, outsiders and constructs fall under what? Outsiders could be mortal on their home plane right?

RagnaroksChosen
2009-12-23, 01:03 PM
Undead, outsiders and constructs fall under what? Outsiders could be mortal on their home plane right?

/shrug

???

SurlySeraph
2009-12-23, 05:30 PM
Undead, outsiders and constructs fall under what? Outsiders could be mortal on their home plane right?

Most outsiders, many undead, and some constructs have spell-like abilities, thus allowing FE: Arcanist to target them. You would need FE for them as well to make sure, though.

Samb
2009-12-23, 08:09 PM
Most outsiders, many undead, and some constructs have spell-like abilities, thus allowing FE: Arcanist to target them. You would need FE for them as well to make sure, though.

Good point, so what would the build like like then? Let's say in 20 levels....

Race: Githyanki
Fulfills several requirements of mortal hunter and slayer. Mortal hunter requires one to be an outsider, evil and have PLA/SLA for mortalbane, Githyanki meets all of them. Slayer requires a PP reserve and killing an illithid/psi-monster both of which are easy for a race that is psionic and hunts illithids. So race alone will qualify for a vast chunk of the PrCs. We will assume you can use LA buyback of 6000 XP.

Base class: ranger with ACF FE arcanist. You can qualify for mortal bane by level 3 since it was made with high LA NPCs in mind that had 5+ LA/RHD. A githyanki only has an LA of 2 so a githyanki 2/ranger 2 would qualify at level 4 even without LA buyback. Could go 3 or 5 levels, if you really want that extra FE and the bonuses at 5. I would pick either undead or construct since they don't always have SLA/PLA to apply.

Class dip: psywar just because you need a manifesting class to advance when you do slayer. Also the bonus feat (for metamorphic transfer) and powers like claws of the beast, psionic lion charge are always welcome and don't need high ML to be effective.

Mortal Hunter: a githyanki ranger only needs to pick up mortalbane and alertness so he doesn't even need flaws to get into this by level 3 (again with LA buyback). This PrC specializes in killing stuff and it does it well. You will only need 5-6 levels in this since the abilities you gain from 7-10 are all Fort based and quite frankly, the powers you gain from psywar and slayer are better. In 5 levels you get mortal slaying +2, and mortal skin (basically polymorph self almost at will). Remember that metamorphic transfer? Now you can use Su abilities of your mortal skin. At 6th level your mortal hunting goes to +3, not sure if it is worth trading out a level of slayer though.

Slayer: If you take ranger5/psywar1/mortal hunter 5 you should be able to get 9 levels in this PrC. In 9 levels you are undetectable, get +6 FE: psionic and a 9ML psywar.

Feats:
extra FE: to cover any mobs you missed.

Imporved FE and favored PA: will add more damage to your selected enemies but not all the other stuff like skill checks or attack bonuses.

Murderous intent: just to make you even more feared by you FEs.

Favored crit: could just make you a killing machine if you have keen weapons or improved crit since it does stack.

Knowledge devotion: just max out on stuff that you plan on killing. As others have said, this is how FE should have been, but that doesn't mean you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Metamorphic transfer: mortal skin with this feat is good no matter what build.

Practised manifester: Go from 9 ML to 13ML, not essenital since psywar powers often don't rely on augmentation to be effective but can't hurt.

In sum:
FE arcanist +4
FE undead or construct +4
FE psionic +6
FE mortal +4
Note: The FE from mortal hunter stacks with rangers, but slayer FE does not.
Not sure if the bonuses stack if the enemy falls into multiple categories or if you just take the higher one.

Final build: ranger5/psywar1/mortal hunter 5/slayer 9.

gorfnab
2009-12-24, 02:08 AM
If you could work Chameleon into your build, you could use your floating feat for Extra Favored Enemy, and change it each day according to your needs. It's a 3.0 feat, though, so I'm not sure how legal it is.

Or set it to the feat Nemesis (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Nemesis) of whatever favored enemy you plan to fight that day.

Zaydos
2009-12-24, 02:13 AM
FE: Arcanists only works (as written) on creatures that can cast Arcane spells or use invocations. It specifically says it does not function on creatures with general spell-like abilities, but only invocations and actual arcane spells. Too bad about that, it would be nice if it was broader (yay Outsiders and Dragons as well).

Coidzor
2009-12-24, 02:34 AM
FE: Arcanists only works (as written) on creatures that can cast Arcane spells or use invocations. It specifically says it does not function on creatures with general spell-like abilities, but only invocations and actual arcane spells. Too bad about that, it would be nice if it was broader (yay Outsiders and Dragons as well).

Dragons cast as a sorcerer. As do some fiends, if we recall correctly. Solars and such wouldn't be affected due to casting as clerics. :/

Samb
2009-12-24, 10:13 AM
FE: Arcanists only works (as written) on creatures that can cast Arcane spells or use invocations. It specifically says it does not function on creatures with general spell-like abilities, but only invocations and actual arcane spells. Too bad about that, it would be nice if it was broader (yay Outsiders and Dragons as well).

Dragons count as both mortal and arcanist. Outsider is a bit tough. Not all of them cast, and they can't die on the Prime. If you encounter them on their home plane maybe mortal hunter could apply to them?

FE in outsider, evil, good and neutral (or lawful and chaotic) will cover all of them but that might need to take up 2 feats on extra FE.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2009-12-24, 09:50 PM
No one mentioned mortal slayer (hunter?) from BoVD which gives you FE: mortals.This is why people should look before posting for citations...

Mortal Hunter doesn't give a FE. So all those FE feats will not work with it. (BoVD 65)


From a DM's perspective, favored enemy is easy to optimize.... Favored Power AttackFEs simply are weak. They are not optimal. They are minor bonuses even if cranked to the max (compared to what other classes get at that level)

FPA is the only good use for maxing your FE (and by then its simply gravy on top of a PA build).


Favored crit: could just make you a killing machine if you have keen weapons or improved crit since it does stack.Though this statement is controversial to some, crit stacking from 3.0 -> 3.5 was nerfed in all examples. This one is no exception. So no dice unless you are playing 3.0


the feat Nemesis (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Nemesis)This is also a good feat, but too specific :(


take up 2 feats on extra FE.Again, please look up what u reference. This feat may not be taken multiple times. (GW 32)

except for the nemesis feat my first reply was /thread.

DragoonWraith
2009-12-24, 09:53 PM
martial adept oozes... ROFL... almost fell out of my chair.
Uh... I'm actually playing one of those. No joke. Though he also has psionics and spellcasting, so, ya know, the Slayer or FE:Arcanists would get him.

Flickerdart
2009-12-24, 10:08 PM
Dragons count as both mortal and arcanist. Outsider is a bit tough. Not all of them cast, and they can't die on the Prime. If you encounter them on their home plane maybe mortal hunter could apply to them?

FE in outsider, evil, good and neutral (or lawful and chaotic) will cover all of them but that might need to take up 2 feats on extra FE.
True Dragons are immortal, though. So I don't think they count.

Coidzor
2009-12-24, 10:53 PM
Though this statement is controversial to some, crit stacking from 3.0 -> 3.5 was nerfed in all examples. This one is no exception. So no dice unless you are playing 3.0

nerfed? We thought that crit-stacking was out and out cut and made impossible to do within the rules.

Samb
2009-12-25, 12:02 AM
This is why people should look before posting for citations...
Mortal Hunter doesn't give a FE. So all those FE feats will not work with it. (BoVD 65)

Why you should read the entry on mortal hunter. Here I'll post it for you.



Mortal Hunting (Ex): A mortal hunter gains a bonus
against mortals due to its extensive study of them and training
in the proper combat techniques. The mortal hunter
gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls against mortals
and the same bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot,
and Wilderness Lore checks when using these skills against
mortals. The damage bonus applies to ranged weapons only
against targets within 30 feet (the mortal hunter cannot
strike with deadly accuracy beyond that range). The bonus
does not apply to damage against creatures that are immune
to critical hits. At 3rd, 6th, and 9th level, the mortal hunter’s
bonus associated with mortals goes up by +1. This bonus
stacks with a ranger’s favored enemy bonus.

The bolded part contradicts you. Sigh...... you should read the citation. Wether this is really a FE is up for some debate though. The thing is: it acts just like FE, it stacks with FE...... if it walks and talks like a duck......what else would you call it?



FEs simply are weak. They are not optimal. They are minor bonuses even if cranked to the max (compared to what other classes get at that level)

He wasn't asking for optimal, he was asking how to cover 90% of creature types under FE. This is why people should read the OP before posting.



FPA is the only good use for maxing your FE (and by then its simply gravy on top of a PA build).

Though this statement is controversial to some, crit stacking from 3.0 -> 3.5 was nerfed in all examples. This one is no exception. So no dice unless you are playing 3.0

Hmm the text specifically says it does stack with keen. I will need a 3.5 text to verify this (like when they said keen and imp crit don't stack) otherwise its just heresy.

There recently was a thread on max'ing crit range and this wasn't brought up. Disiple of Disapter, weapon master (and psychic) were all part of the debate.



Again, please look up what u reference. This feat may not be taken multiple times. (GW 32)

That's too bad :(


except for the nemesis feat my first reply was /thread.
Yeah, we acknowledged that was a swell idea already. And next time try not be so condescending maybe then things might go a bit smoother.