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Noble Savant
2009-12-22, 09:40 AM
Now then, I'm a big fan of Dungeon Crasher, ramming my way through anything and everything has always been one of my favorite things, so a class feature that works with that is top grade in my book.

Sadly, I don't have any good ways of starting out as large with my current character, so Knockdown is out of the picture. Are there any other ways to get in a few bull-rushes with my regular attack pattern?

Also, this came up in a discussion with my GM. What are the effects of bull-rushing someone into another character? What if I have dungeoncrasher?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-22, 09:42 AM
There's a FR regional feat that gives you powerful build, I believe.

Thrice Dead Cat
2009-12-22, 10:02 AM
Jotunblood, I believe is the feat PF is talking about. Another easy way is just be permanently enlarged.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-12-22, 10:07 AM
Permanancy Enlarge Person(or an item, or PsyWar levels) can get you Large for every combat.

Ernir
2009-12-22, 10:13 AM
There's a FR regional feat that gives you powerful build, I believe.
Jotunbrud doesn't give you "real" Powerful Build, just a bonus on opposed checks as if you had it. :smallfrown:

Bayar
2009-12-22, 11:01 AM
Although it is not large, a warforged dungeoncrasher fighter gets good bonuses from the Warforged Juggernaut PrC.

jiriku
2009-12-22, 12:24 PM
There is a relic shield in MiC, Shield of the Bloody Hand or somesuch, that gives you a free bull rush once per round. There's also a knockback quality to apply to your weapon, but it's ridiculously expensive and not very effective IIRC.

Dusk Eclipse
2009-12-22, 12:50 PM
Goliaths (RoS) get powerful build and they are only LA plus IIRC they got some bonus to STR and CON

Haven
2009-12-22, 12:55 PM
Sadly, I don't have any good ways of starting out as large with my current character, so Knockdown is out of the picture. Are there any other ways to get in a few bull-rushes with my regular attack pattern?

I suggest dipping Warblade: there's a first-level Stone Dragon maneuver that combines a Bull Rush with a charge that doesn't provoke AoOs. And if the bull rush attempt succeeds, it's another 2d6+Str bludgeoning damage. (You could get that with any initiator class, but Warblade lets you do that every other round if you want, and still make regular attacks in the intervening round).

Zaq
2009-12-22, 03:21 PM
Permanancy Enlarge Person(or an item, or PsyWar levels) can get you Large for every combat.

Be careful if you take this route. If your Permanency gets Dispelled, your entire build (or a significant chunk of it) becomes useless until you can find another wizard willing and able to reapply it. I'm wary of any choice that turns Dispel Magic into Disjunction. Make sure you talk with your GM about this, since that can get really ugly very quickly.

dyslexicfaser
2009-12-22, 03:46 PM
Most DMs I know will okay Jotunbrud as qualifying for Knockback.

After all, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and gains bonuses to grapple like a duck...

Noble Savant
2009-12-23, 06:13 AM
Magic Items and Permanencied items are unavailable, and according to my DM I can't qualify for Knockback even if I have Psy-Warrior levels.

The shield looks interesting, though it does limit my concept a bit.

The ToB maneuver though... That's precisely what I was looking for. I also looked up the Brutal Surge property in the MIC, and it looks like it would be nice for the rounds where I can't use that Maneuver.

If I wanted to combine Battle Jump with all this fun, for awesome Dragoon action, would I be able to? Are their rules for jumping with a charge?

Haven
2009-12-23, 07:29 AM
Well, there's the Leap Attack feat.


Leap Attack

You can combine a powerful charge and a mighty leap into one devastating attack.

Prerequisites: Jump 8 ranks, Power Attack.

Benefit: You can combine a jump with a charge against an opponent. If you cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with your jump, and you end your jump in a square from which you threaten your target, you can double the extra damage dealt by your use of the Power Attack feat. If you use this tactic with a two-handed weapon, you instead triple the extra damage from Power Attack.

This attack must follow all the normal rules for using the Jump skill and for making a charge, except that you ignore rough terrain in any squares you jump over.

Aside from that, if you're dipping Warblade there are some Tiger Claw maneuvers you could use for similar effects.

dyslexicfaser
2009-12-23, 08:54 PM
Some people say you can Battle Jump people to Dungeon Crash them into the ground, but that seems extremely suspect to me.

Eldariel
2009-12-23, 08:57 PM
There's the Driving Attack in PHBII Fighter Melee Weapon Mastery-tree. It's not nearly as good as Knockback (specific action vs. generic bonus, requires tons of feats, etc.) but it's available to Fighters and medium characters, so there. Oh, and the Bull Rush Attempt seems to be doable against opponents of any size and with your DAMAGE BONUSES instead of Str check, you should NEVER EVER EVER fail. So there's something there. Still, BAB +14 too. And not available on AoOs still.