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AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-22, 03:40 PM
I know, "Arcane leads the way!!!"...Whatever. Divine casters are damn good too!

However, using Base Races (or racial variants), I need a 20 level build focused on using Shugenja. Multiclassing is okay, however, I want to keep the spontinatety core and cast lots of magic from both ballparks.

Also, I'm considering either Illumian or a hybrid High/Drow as my race. DM says Illumian are a human subspecies. Any other suggestions?

Narazil
2009-12-22, 03:50 PM
Shugenjas aren't very impressive mechanically. Whatever you want to do, a Cleric should be(read: probably is) able to do better.

Any focus on your build? Buffing, blasting, healing?

AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-22, 03:52 PM
Kind of a spiker build (Massive Damage to few targets)

Aquillion
2009-12-22, 03:56 PM
Shugenjas aren't very impressive mechanically. Whatever you want to do, a Cleric should be(read: probably is) able to do better.
While this is true, that applies to almost every other class, too.

Anyway, there's a Shugenja handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870718/Shugenja_Handbook) that is worth reading.

What element were you thinking of?

AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-22, 03:59 PM
While this is true, that applies to almost every other class, too. Shugenjas are among the weaker full casters, but they're still full casters, so they'll do fine in any but the most brutally hardcore optimized of groups.

Anyway, there's a Shugenja handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870718/Shugenja_Handbook) that is worth reading.

What element were you thinking of?

Kanton probably. Blast 'em

and to the comment on how clerics are better than shugenja, thats like saying Wizard is better than sorcerer. Admittendly, more spells/cl is good, not having to pray every 5 min or write **** down is nice to have.

Narazil
2009-12-22, 04:05 PM
Kanton probably. Blast 'em

and to the comment on how clerics are better than shugenja, thats like saying Wizard is better than sorcerer. Admittendly, more spells/cl is good, not having to pray every 5 min or write **** down is nice to have.
Well, not saying you have to go Cleric. I'd just consider other options myself (Cloistered Cleric, for example).

Of course, it depends on the party. If you're all playing lower tier characters, it doesn't realler matter. However, if they're using the stronger mechanical choices to represent a concept, obviously so should you.

The Shugenja handbook should tell you all you need to know, basicly.

Aquillion
2009-12-22, 04:09 PM
and to the comment on how clerics are better than shugenja, thats like saying Wizard is better than sorcerer. Admittendly, more spells/cl is good, not having to pray every 5 min or write **** down is nice to have.If you actually want to talk power, the difference between Clerics and Shugenja is much more extreme than Wizards and Sorcerers. Wizards and Sorcerers still share the same spell list (more or less).

Shugenja, on the other hand, have an overwhelmingly more limited spell list when compared to the vast cleric list. They also have lower HD and no armor proficiencies, both of which actually matter for a divine caster given that your best strategy is often to buff yourself and wade into combat (well, Shugenja also lack some of the best of those buffs, but that's not a point in their favor...) The spells they get that Clerics don't are generally not worth it, either, especially given that Clerics can get most of them via domains.

The extra spells per day are less of a benefit than you'd think when a cleric can just buff themselves and win a fight, while a Shugenja has to constantly bleed spells to contribute.

...now, again, don't let that discourage you from playing Shugenja; they're still a full caster, so they'll do fine as long as your build doesn't lose CLs. But don't chose one over a Cleric because you expect extra power. They're a pretty clearly toned-down caster overall, one less likely to overshadow the rest of the party.

Narazil
2009-12-22, 04:12 PM
...now, again, don't let that discourage you from playing Shugenja; they're still a full caster, so they'll do fine as long as your build doesn't lose CLs. But don't chose one over a Cleric because you expect extra power. They're a pretty clearly toned-down caster overall, one less likely to overshadow the rest of the party.
For example by taking a LA race.

Keld Denar
2009-12-22, 04:17 PM
Don't forget that Shugenja also don't get Turn Undead, a mechanic which is behind the use of [Divine] and [Devotion] feats. Even if you aren't using DMM Persist, losing out on the option for things like Divine Spell Power, Divine Might, ANY of the Devotions, etc makes Shugenja's lag dramatically behind clerics.

If you really want to blast on a divine chassis, I'd suggest something like a Cloistered Cleric with the Fire and Cold domains. Lots of wizardy evocations there, and with the PHBII ACF to spontaneously cast from a domain, or the Complete Divine feat that allows you to burn Turn Undead attempts to do the same allows you similar flexibility that a Sorcerer or Shugenja would give.

Narazil
2009-12-22, 04:21 PM
Don't forget that Shugenja also don't get Turn Undead, a mechanic which is behind the use of [Divine] and [Devotion] feats. Even if you aren't using DMM Persist, losing out on the option for things like Divine Spell Power, Divine Might, ANY of the Devotions, etc makes Shugenja's lag dramatically behind clerics.

If you really want to blast on a divine chassis, I'd suggest something like a Cloistered Cleric with the Fire and Cold domains. Lots of wizardy evocations there, and with the PHBII ACF to spontaneously cast from a domain, or the Complete Divine feat that allows you to burn Turn Undead attempts to do the same allows you similar flexibility that a Sorcerer or Shugenja would give.
There's also a feat called Domain Spontaniety, choose a Domain. You can now convert spells into your Domain spells from that domain.

Keld Denar
2009-12-22, 05:03 PM
There's also a feat called Domain Spontaniety, choose a Domain. You can now convert spells into your Domain spells from that domain.


or the Complete Divine feat that allows you to burn Turn Undead attempts to do the same allows you similar flexibility that a Sorcerer or Shugenja would give.

That feat? Yea, I already covered it.

Narazil
2009-12-22, 10:02 PM
That feat? Yea, I already covered it.
Oh, sorry, actually didn't know it burned Turning Attempts.

AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-23, 01:18 AM
right.............

I don't want to be bound to some deity, because should that deity die, I'm screwed/Should I displease them, see previous.

Thats why Shugenja struck me as cool. No "bindings"

and I had the coolest race/story twist EVER!!!

I'd be a Szarkai (DotU), though my starting race would be an Arctic Elf (Pale skin, reclusive, ect.) At a moment my DM dictated, a drow would call me out as a Szarkai, and thus switching my race.

Is this a cool race/story element?

Grumman
2009-12-23, 01:36 AM
and I had the coolest race/story twist EVER!!!

I'd be a Szarkai (DotU), though my starting race would be an Arctic Elf (Pale skin, reclusive, ect.) At a moment my DM dictated, a drow would call me out as a Szarkai, and thus switching my race.

Is this a cool race/story element?
No, it's not. The szarkai are supposed to be used by the drow as infiltrators and saboteurs. The last thing a drow that thinks you are a szarkai would do is call you out as a szarkai.

Sir Homeslice
2009-12-23, 01:36 AM
If gods spontaneously biting the dust is what concerns you, your cleric can just as easily worship ideals instead of gods.

Aquillion
2009-12-23, 03:05 AM
No, it's not. The szarkai are supposed to be used by the drow as infiltrators and saboteurs. The last thing a drow that thinks you are a szarkai would do is call you out as a szarkai.Yes, but only a genuinely evil Drow would do that. How many of those are there? It's all Chaotic Good traitors now.

Milskidasith
2009-12-23, 03:11 AM
I'm just curious... do you ever play any of your games, Air? From what I can see, you ask for a new build or three every day... I'm wondering how you manage to play them all.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-12-23, 03:18 AM
You want spontaneous casting from both arcane and divine?

Beguiler/Rainbow Servant10

Spontaneously cast from the entire Cleric spell list, and the entire Beguiler list, whenever you want. You are the ultimate Schrodinger's Cleric, plus all the skillmonkey and shutdown of the Beguiler. You are, in fact, an entire party rolled into one (with Divine Power and Righteous Might, you even double as the Tank).

Everyman
2009-12-23, 10:23 AM
Shneeky is right. For Ultimate Cosmic Power*, you can't go wrong with a Beguiler/Rainbow Servant combo. Truth be told, you can switch out Beguiler for pretty much any arcane class that has access to its full class spell list (like Warmage or Dread Necromancer), but Beguiler gets the most bang for its buck from having access to all Cleric spells at the 10th level of RS in my opinion. Just make sure to check whether or not the DM uses the table or text for determining your spell progression. By RAW, the rules in text trump any table ,which means RS actually gives full spell progression. However, some DMs (arguablely sane ones) might enfore the partial progression on the table.

* In rare cases, users of Ultimate Cosmic Power have experienced dry throat, spontaneous combustion, dejavu, swelling of the feet and nose, pixies, gnomes, explosive bowl movements, samurai ninja cats, rashes, eye twitching, critical hits, high divore rates, dejavu, baldness of the tongue, cloven hoofs, hiccups, dejavu and itty-bitty living spaces. Please contact your local cleric if you experience any of these symptoms.

AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-23, 11:57 AM
Yes, but only a genuinely evil Drow would do that. How many of those are there? It's all Chaotic Good traitors now.

well, I'm acutally using a Neutral Alignment (LN or NG) considering I was an informant who simply cut myself off from the Drow world.

and I only have one. Problem is, I need to find "just the right one" for me. The Beguiler (Need Book!)/ RS seems optimal to say the least.

And to those who claim Im a troll, I simply want the optimal character. this 1'd be probably the best over clericzilla builds

Kylarra
2009-12-23, 12:27 PM
Beguiler is PHB 2
Rainbow Servant is Complete Divine

To simplify things for you a little since this pops up in nearly every one of your threads and you seem incapable of googling,

List of noncore base classes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alternate_Dungeons_%26_Dragons_classes#Oth er_sourcebooks)
Prestige classes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prestige_classes)

Refer to them as needed for locations of classes.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2009-12-23, 01:39 PM
No, it's not. The szarkai are supposed to be used by the drow as infiltrators and saboteurs. The last thing a drow that thinks you are a szarkai would do is call you out as a szarkai.You just killed the boy's hopes and dreams right there.