PDA

View Full Version : My friend the BBEG



Rixx
2009-12-22, 08:33 PM
Something I always thought would be interesting to run...

Run a regular D&D game with your friends - typical adventure genre fodder, what with the distant BBEG sending out all his forces in an attempt to thwart THOSE ACCURSED ADVENTURERS!

But what if the BBEG himself was a player? Not in the traditional sense, of course - you'd run your game like normal as the Dungeon Master, giving your players challenges to overcome.

Then, at some other point in time, you'd go meet another friend - one who isn't in this gaming group at all. To him you play the role of the Advisor, telling him what his forces have learned of this upstart new threat, as well as giving status reports on other happenings unrelated to the heroes. The player playing the BBEG will then give his orders, and the next session will be about the heroes coping with the results of these orders.

I think this would probably work better for low-level play, and with a less-powergaming oriented group, or else Scry & Die cheese would end it pretty quickly on either end. Keeping the fact that the BBEG's plans aren't something you're just making up a secret might be a good idea, too - as well as only reporting information that the BBEG's spies could conceivably have heard or gathered.

Have any of you ever run an adventure this way?

MeTheGameGuy
2009-12-22, 08:49 PM
Ha. I love the idea, personally. Until the BBEG pulls out epic spellcasting. Provided it's sufficiently balanced, it'd be a cool way to run the villains.

Possibly have two full gaming groups, the heroes and villains, running on different days? :smallbiggrin:

What happens when the heroes finally arrive in the BBEG's secret lair, though? Do the two groups finally meet up? You can't exactly just run half a round of combat in a full gaming session. :smallconfused:

Iamyourking
2009-12-22, 08:51 PM
You'd have to get the other player to fight fair; he realizes who his real target is and there is nothing stopping him from just bringing out the big guns. For instance, the adventurers are level 3 or 4 and have stopped the villain's plans a few times. In most cases this is beneath the villain's notice and he only slowly escaltes until it's already too late. In this case though, the guy controlling the villain knows that they'll eventually kill him if not stopped and deals with it using the best stuff he's got. So you've got the level 3 heroes going up against a level 15-20 villain that they cannot possibly stop or hide from if he is actually using the resources avaliable to him.

jseah
2009-12-22, 09:02 PM
Well, it could work but it's a fine balancing act.

He's a BBEG. Everyone and their mother is trying to stop him. Level 3 adventurers wrecking a minion's plan in some faraway town? Mail him an item to help him out, you've got level 13 paladins camping at your front porch to worry about.

MeTheGameGuy
2009-12-22, 09:09 PM
He's a BBEG. Everyone and their mother is trying to stop him. Level 3 adventurers wrecking a minion's plan in some faraway town? Mail him an item to help him out, you've got level 13 paladins camping at your front porch to worry about.

Well, it depends. If the BBEG is sufficiently distanced from the actual game-world, he might not need to worry much about opposition until the PCs figure out where he's situated. Perhaps he's on an orbital command post, or some fantasy equivalent. Perfectly safe until the heroes can conclusively locate him for the final confrontation.

This could work. The BBEG would play his side of the game more like an RTS or wargame, initiating plans and giving orders to minions, which would all be actually handled by the GM. Maybe even use Warhammer miniatures for the BBEG's game? :smallwink:

Dogmantra
2009-12-22, 09:15 PM
What I'd do is give him several reports of what's "happened", and make only one be the party, without telling him which, so he can't just forget everything else and focus on the party, and his decisions would be more realistic.

Example:
"Your minions report a strike on your shipment of weapons for your army in the south, contact with the allied goblin tribe in the south west has been cut off and your spies have found that the neighbouring villages are planning to overthrow you."

The players could feasibly be responsible for any or all of those reports, and it forces the person playing the BBEG to deal with them all.

I'd love to be the BBEG in a campaign too, I expect it would be brilliant fun.

Rixx
2009-12-22, 09:41 PM
I think it would probably be best to run as an E6-type thing, so you don't have to worry so much about "why doesn't he send his level 17 minions after them" and the whole epic spellcasting deal...

Also, if the BBEG, out of character, isn't playing to win against these specific adventurers - at least not at first.

Evard
2009-12-22, 09:49 PM
I actually was going to do this in 4e, I told my friend that if he made a monarch character (yes from venture brothers) then he could be the BBEG of a cave... No the monarch being in a cave didn't make sense but it was purely for fun :D (the BBEG would have been played by a guy who would make it... interesting :p) he didn't make the BBEG though :( so i stuck him with a cleric or a paladin or something for the night... *sadness*

Temet Nosce
2009-12-22, 09:56 PM
I think it would probably be best to run as an E6-type thing, so you don't have to worry so much about "why doesn't he send his level 17 minions after them" and the whole epic spellcasting deal...

Also, if the BBEG, out of character, isn't playing to win against these specific adventurers - at least not at first.

Why E6? In that case, the end fight isn't gonna be much of a challenge (1 v entire party) unless the party never reached level 6.

Personally I'd say just don't have the BBEG be epic. It's perfectly reasonable to have a level 10 or so BBEG if the party starts at level 2 or 3. Either that or use E6, but have the BBEG (not his minions, just him) not be subject to it (or have him be subject to it - but the only Spellcaster in the world).

As far as "who are the adventurers" I'd agree with presenting him with contradictory reports (and having the ones that aren't the party be serious threats as well).

Roam7
2009-12-26, 11:01 PM
Why E6? In that case, the end fight isn't gonna be much of a challenge (1 v entire party) unless the party never reached level 6.

Personally I'd say just don't have the BBEG be epic. It's perfectly reasonable to have a level 10 or so BBEG if the party starts at level 2 or 3. Either that or use E6, but have the BBEG (not his minions, just him) not be subject to it (or have him be subject to it - but the only Spellcaster in the world).

As far as "who are the adventurers" I'd agree with presenting him with contradictory reports (and having the ones that aren't the party be serious threats as well).


The thing is, you're assuming that he would be facing the party on his own.

He more than likely has followers or minions of some sort, so I doubt it'd be 1 vs. the entire party.

Grumman
2009-12-26, 11:08 PM
Maybe even use Warhammer miniatures for the BBEG's game? :smallwink:
I think you'd want something more like Mighty Empires for this: the BBEG works on the strategic level, while the Adventurers work on the tactical level against whichever forces they encounter.

Lysander
2009-12-26, 11:15 PM
You could let the BBEG design his own lair and defense, constrained within a level of expense. He wouldn't know the strengths and weaknesses of the party, unlike a DM that can plan ways to help or screw them.

Forevernade
2009-12-26, 11:31 PM
The thing is, you're assuming that he would be facing the party on his own.

He more than likely has followers or minions of some sort, so I doubt it'd be 1 vs. the entire party.

E6 allows enemies and BBEGs to be above CR 6 up to CR8 and CR10. You could have a BBEG PC at level 12 for all we know and care, it wouldnt be breaching E6, as long as the BBEGPC's game is being ran not as a 'must win and wipe out the good party' game and more as a thought-challenge game.

ZeroNumerous
2009-12-26, 11:37 PM
... Scry&Die is not cheese or even remotely related to any form of cheese. Cheese refers to builds that are above and beyond normal character optimization and is usually used to refer to theoretical optimization. Scry and Die is just an incredibly basic tactic that would, in a world with instantaneous teleportation, become frequently overused.

And to answer your question: No, I've never heard of that happen but it sounds like a novel idea. The logistics, in particular for the final encounter, would be tiresome to put together though.

Rixx
2009-12-27, 02:31 AM
... Scry&Die is not cheese or even remotely related to any form of cheese. Cheese refers to builds that are above and beyond normal character optimization and is usually used to refer to theoretical optimization. Scry and Die is just an incredibly basic tactic that would, in a world with instantaneous teleportation, become frequently overused.

I mean "cheese" as in "a really cheesy way for the story to end".

TheCountAlucard
2009-12-27, 06:41 AM
Have any of you ever run an adventure this way?I've actually been doing this; a friend of mine played a human Dread Necromancer in one D&D game, and his character's now a villain for the PCs in my current game. I regularly talk with him about how the game's going and ask what sort of things his character might do.

742
2009-12-27, 07:24 AM
try multiple groups of decoy heroes for the BBEG, so he/she/it/they can plausibly start killing off their opposition without just snapping up the low level PCs and crushing em to bits. it also keeps them either sneaky or spreading their minions around. in fact they might not even get which group of heroic people is the biggest threat to them long term(PCs) until later, that way you can have them active in world and still avoid direct conflict for a while. or maybe add in a magical macguffin or some chosen-one corniness so at least one of the hero PCs (or the villian PCs, or even both) has to be killed at a specific place or time, or with some obscure method. maybe "so they wont be reincarnated later" or something. or maybe have that only apply directly to the PCs so they would have a good reason to send their minions after each other but not go themselves. just remember to give both groups actual goals not just "kill the other group".

double points if you dont tell your players your doing this until later on.