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El Dorado
2009-12-22, 09:28 PM
Calm Emotions (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/calmEmotions.htm)

What are your opinions about this spell? Good, bad, meh?

Coidzor
2009-12-22, 09:54 PM
It seems like the most it can do is make a group of enemies unable to attack or deal with a mass of fear'd allies that are unbuffed in the ways that are suppressed.

So kinda Meh to us.

DabblerWizard
2009-12-22, 10:08 PM
The spell seems fairly similar to Daze, in that it stops a creature from acting (violently)... I like it for its potential roleplay implications.

You could say, for instance, that a monster realizes cognitively that it wants to harm the players, but can't get itself into a proper emotional state, to actually do so.

tahu88810
2009-12-22, 10:10 PM
The spell seems fairly similar to Daze, in that it stops a creature from acting (violently)... I like it for its potential roleplay implications.

You could say, for instance, that a monster realizes cognitively that it wants to harm the players, but can't get itself into a proper emotional state, to actually do so.
It then becomes a cold blooded killer, using its sudden lack of extreme emotion to carefully plan each attack and react to the enemy offense and defense accordingly.

Zeta Kai
2009-12-22, 10:14 PM
Calm Emotions (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/calmEmotions.htm)

What are your opinions about this spell? Good, bad, meh?

Diplomancy is usually better, but at low levels, it's alright. My players usually find better ways to end encounters, like putting pointy things in squishy things.

Glimbur
2009-12-22, 10:19 PM
Can be useful against barbarians and/or frenzied berserkers.

DabblerWizard
2009-12-22, 10:24 PM
It then becomes a cold blooded killer, using its sudden lack of extreme emotion to carefully plan each attack and react to the enemy offense and defense accordingly.

The question is, can motivation be based primarily in thought, or does motivation need to have a foundation in emotion?

It seems that WOTC assumes the latter, that emotion controls motivation, since the spell states that you can't attack while under its effects.

I suppose I question what it means to be a "cold blooded killer". There's clearly this aspect of calculation and intention, but can this same person actually complete the act, without emotions fueling them?

tahu88810
2009-12-22, 10:26 PM
actually complete the act, without emotions fueling them?

I believe that is the definition of a sociopath. Though I may be wrong.

DabblerWizard
2009-12-22, 10:30 PM
I believe that is the definition of a sociopath. Though I may be wrong.

If I remember correctly, sociopaths lack empathy (an ability to appreciate and relate to another person's feelings) vs. actually lacking emotion.

tahu88810
2009-12-22, 10:34 PM
If I remember correctly, sociopaths lack empathy (an ability to appreciate and relate to another person's feelings) vs. actually lacking emotion.

Most of the time when reading about sociopaths it seems to be that they lack emotion entirely. But you're probably right, because I'm not very knowledgeable in such areas and I've made mistakes in defining 'sociopath' in the past.
That being said, IF the spell does completely remove emotions, there is a current psychological theory that we require emotions to place value on decisions, and so without emotion we are basically unable to make decisions of any time. Which, if following that theory, would make the spell a save-or-lose spell. Which it pretty much is anyways, even if you don't argue that it makes a person catatonic, as it takes them out of the combat.

Optimystik
2009-12-22, 10:40 PM
It shuts down some nasty mind-affecting effects, like Fear and Confusion, on your allies. It also depowers enemy bard/cleric buffs, and enemy barbarians.

I like it, but then I also like the Apostle of Peace, who can poke people with it at will (not allowing a save and ignoring SR.)

DabblerWizard
2009-12-23, 10:32 AM
.... there is a current psychological theory that we require emotions to place value on decisions, and so without emotion we are basically unable to make decisions of any time.

Mr. Spock would be most displeased with that theory... well, actually, he would decide that the theory is illogical, and point out rather astutely, that he just made a decision without consciously accessing his emotions.

"Emotions are irrelevant" is probably a line used by Seven of Nine (another Star Trek reference) at some point.

On a more serious note, if the theory says you need emotion to evaluate a decision, it seems that you could still make a decision without emotion, you would just not be able to judge the rightness or wrongness of the decision, or, you wouldn't know if you liked a particular decision.

Ultimately, I believe that a person can make decisions without emotion, using basic logic and reasoning.

Optimystik
2009-12-23, 10:36 AM
The spell does not remove emotions entirely. It has no effect on sadness (e.g. Crushing Despair) or other morale penalties, only morale bonuses. If you're feeling down, CE will not perk you back up.

ghashxx
2009-12-25, 01:20 AM
This would be really nice for any time your rogue has just gotten caught picking someone's pocket, or any occasion that city guards need to be calmed down all of a sudden

Lysander
2009-12-25, 02:08 AM
The spell is good. It prevents violent creatures from attacking, which is always useful, in addition to specific anti-barbarian/anti-bard/anti-fear situations. You could use it to walk through a room of enemies although it probably works best with animals or anything else not intelligent enough to understand what you're doing to it.

Can emotionless creatures attack? Spock and the Terminator would say yes. But this isn't lack of emotion. This is utter calmness, which is an emotion. You're too serene to care about attacking.

Sliver
2009-12-25, 02:15 AM
Emotions shouldn't affect the creature's ability to attack.. Daleks have no issues with the lack of emotions..

CockroachTeaParty
2009-12-25, 02:17 AM
I'd say it's a... 'meh' spell. It's very fragile. If even one person makes their save, a single violent action (from within or without) ends the effect for everyone involved. Occasionally useful.

sonofzeal
2009-12-25, 02:25 AM
I've used a Vow of Nonviolence character, whose aura of Calm Emotions was a campaign-changer. It's powerful.

Lysander
2009-12-25, 06:42 PM
I'd say it's a... 'meh' spell. It's very fragile. If even one person makes their save, a single violent action (from within or without) ends the effect for everyone involved. Occasionally useful.

It's a calculated risk when using it on many creatures. It's pretty great if you want walk past a single powerful monster with a low will save.