Broken crap from forgotten realms

[dougch]

besides Greenbound summoning what else can you guys mention that needs the fixer hammer
?

[Signmaker]

A good portion of Faerun, 'nuff said. Incantatrix is the obvious one, Gem Magic one I brought up in ToS somewhat recently. Actually, the ToS list is a pretty good indication, as most of the 'tricks' that have been banned were performed via exhibition (therefore demonstrated) before getting the banhammer. Dey is thorough like that.

[Kurald Galain]

Elminster Sue.

[Duke of URL]

I'll have to nominate Incantatrix. Metamgaic abuse sucks, and a class built pretty much entirely on it REALLY sucks.

[dougch]

a little searching found me this

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-rules/128424-what-have-i-missed-about-greenbound-summoning-3.html#post2195156

apparently it was orignally intended as a +2 LA metamagic

can i get some locations \
what are your views on spellfire?

[Signmaker]

can i get some locations \
what are your views on spellfire?

The mechanic? Interesting, and not that easy to break if you're actually trying. The fact that you're a spell magnet that has the tendency to overload due to an insufficient Con score makes it a bit tedious though. And since you can only unload a certain amount of spellfire per attack (See: Spellfire Channeler), it's capped in usefulness. The most annoying thing about it is probably the static DC to save against it, which means it declines in usefulness pretty quickly. I frankly see it better for minor healing than actual offense.

[Yuki Akuma]

Those-things-that-made-dragons-originally-that-I-can't-possibly-spell? Most broken ability ever.

[Signmaker]

Those-things-that-made-dragons-originally-that-I-can't-possibly-spell? Most broken ability ever.

Do elaborate?

[hamishspence]

technically they didn't make dragons, but the various snaky and lizardlike races- their name was the Sarrukh. They were in Serpent Kingdoms.

Dragons turned up long after the Sarrukh were on the way out.

My guess is the power was there for DMs to explain how weirdly modified races crop up "a Sarrukh did it" rather than for the players' use.

Sadly it didn't turn out that way.

[Signmaker]

technically they didn't make dragons, but the various snaky and lizardlike races- their name was the Sarrukh.

Dragons turned up long after the Sarrukh were on the way out.

My guess is the power was there for DMs to explain how weirdly modified races crop up "a Sarrukh did it" rather than for the players' use.

Sadly it didn't turn out that way.

Oh. Those.
Yeah, Serpent Kingdoms is hard to find nice things in. Nice as in, "your DM won't laugh/throw things at you, but is still a viable choice in game". Quite the extreme book, it is.

[hamishspence]

Nice things for the DM to throw at the party on the other hand- it does have a few.

Drow snake whips- which mysteriously did not appear in any 3.0-3.5 books before Serpent Kingdoms, for example- only in a web enhancement to City of the Spider Queen.

[deuxhero]

Anything that required Deity:Mystra is a good place to start.

[Claudius Maximus]

Initiate of Mystra

Streamers

Spelldancer

Red Wizards and Hathrans, due to Circle Magic.

Perhaps Halruaan Elder

[Optimystik]

Initiate of Mystra
Red Wizard (of Thay)

EDIT: And Kara-Turan Ninjas. :smallannoyed:

[hamishspence]

Which book has Kara-Tur ninjas?

The Shou Disciple is a monk prestige class, a bit boosted compared to standard monk (can wear light armour, proficient with all martial weapons) but that doesn't seem especially overpowered, considering it's for monks.

[Optimystik]

Which book has Kara-Tur ninjas?

It... they...

I was referring to the speed with which I was ninja'd, not an actual class :smallredface:

[hamishspence]

Oops. Forgot that the comment might simply refer to being ninjaed.

Which classes, PRCs, feats, etc are broken in the other direction? As in, a massive trap and not worth it?

[Akisa]

Mystic Theurge :P

[Yuki Akuma]

Mystic Theurge :P

"Broken"?.

[hamishspence]

Not a forgotten realms PRC. Unless I'm missing something and it appeared in a Realms book.

[Tavar]

From Forgotten realms?

[mostlyharmful]

There's a huge crapton of missable feats and PrCs in FRs, it's the most fleshed out setting by miles so there's bound to be the same accumulation of pointless, untested wallfiller as other books, likewise for borked things that should never have seen the light of day.

Anyways, for high end broken a small list:
1. NPCs as written, most are crappy but of such high/epic level that their builds don't really matter - it's not like every bartender is an epic mage whatever anyone here says but enough of them are for it to be an understandable meme. And enough of them get involved in anything big to be annoying from either a gameplay or a versimilitude standpoint.
2. Dweomerkeeper, Cheater of Mystra, Incantatrix, Circle Magic using PrCs, Greenbound, and Gem magic have all been covered
3. The shadow weave and 1 level dips into shadow adepts for illusion-specialized builds,
4. The Shadovar, Phaerimms, Mythal loving High mages and generally all the Epic Casting abuse going on in some parts of the world
5. Sarrukh and Underdark expansions such as Illithid Slayer (I'm away from my books and I'm not sure that last one is right, just remember the soulsucking mindflayer PrC that lets you nick Su abilities)
6. The backstory artifacts/portals/mythals/decaying whatevers you constantly trip over with someone at the table wanting it included.

Really if you're firm that this is your version of FR, have a decent reason beyound cold war MAD for all the high end mages not to get involved and keep an eye on any meta abuse or PrC mentioned sofar its a lovely little world with plenty of cool areas. :smallsmile: Just make sure to ritually go kill Elminster and Driz'zt in a fire. :smallyuk:

[hamishspence]

Savage Species is the one with the illithid PRC- Illithid Savant.

[bosssmiley]

Incantatrix
Sarrukhs
Circle Magic ("Here are you free DC boosts/metamagic sir")
Portable Mythals
Chain contingency spells

Shou Disciple: not broken, just more evidence that taking levels in Monk is for suckers. :smallamused:

[Akisa]

"Broken"?.

Yes mystic thuerge is broken, it's just broken the other way :P, just like the post above mine. There is probably some source book or novel with a npc that took the "mystic trap" :p.

[Spiryt]

Yes mystic thuerge is broken, it's just broken the other way :P, just like the post above mine. There is probably some source book or novel with a npc that took the "mystic trap" :p.

Using pretty well known Tier system, what Tier would being "standard" Wizard3/Cleric3/Mt 5+ make you, BTW?

In Playgrounds opinion?

[Gnaeus]

It is hard to tier correctly. What level is the character. if level 20, bottom of tier 1. If level 7, near bottom of tier 4.

[Yuki Akuma]

Mystic Theurge is very good. It's a full caster! That makes it automatically better than everything that doesn't get 9th-level spells.

Sure there are better ways to get access to both arcane and divine spells (many of which even let you get to 9th level in both), but Mystic Theurge was printed very early on and was very good back then.

[Spiryt]

It is hard to tier correctly. What level is the character. if level 20, bottom of tier 1. If level 7, near bottom of tier 4.

If it's true, I would dare to say that Mystic Theurge is pretty Ok (non broken), it's "regular" full Spellcaster who are broken.

[Gnaeus]

None of the tier levels are "broken" they are just balanced differently against each other. In a tier 4-5 party, none of the characters are broken. In a tier 1-2 party, the same applies. They are just unbalanced against each other.

Mystic theurge is strong at level 1-4 (cleric 3, wiz 1 is not underpowered). Then weak at levels 5-10 (roughly). They often won't have spells that are meaningful against cr equivalent encounters. Decent at 11-17, although they will look weak against a full caster. By level 20, they have level 9 spells, so they are just as broken as a wizard.

If Strong, Weak, Balanced, Insanely strong is your idea of balanced, they are balanced.

JaronK (who wrote the most common tier chart) says that in his opinion, tier 3 is the goal. They can almost always contribute and are rarely broken through most of the level ranges. Mystic Theurge spends relatively little time in the sweet spot. It is either gimpy or uber for most of its progression.

As to the "its awesome, it gets 9th level spells" argument, I respectfully disagree. It is great if built at level 20. But few games play at that level, at least for long. On the other hand, many more games play through the 5-10 level where it is way undergunned compared to other casters, or even well built melee.

[nekomata2]

Spelldancer


Doesn't spelldancing take too long to be of practical use in combat?

Side note: spellfire seems weak without the PrC's extra storage and draining power, but what is a good base for the PrC to use, its a d4 1/2 BAB class that doesn't advance spellcasting?

[tyckspoon]

Doesn't spelldancing take too long to be of practical use in combat?


Doesn't matter how long it takes to do it as long as you can use it to make practical use of Persistent Spell.

[taltamir]

I think its not "classes" so much as individual spells and abilities that are broken.

For example, the feat "arcane thesis" as written is broken.
Gate as written is broken
Polymorph as written is broken

If you individually fix the broken spells / feats you find that suddenly full casters are not destroying the universe... sure they are more versatile than your tier 4 classes, but they are not killing gods, breaking the economy, building/razing cities in a hours, etc...

Metamagic needs a lot of work, metamagics vary from "horribly worthless" to "break the game" to "situationally break the game or worthless". They also make it significantly harder to actually balance anything...