So did they change the rules on Succubi?

[Turkish Delight]

Because I seem to recall from 2nd edition sleeping with a Succubus results in getting your soul sucked out and sent to the Abyss. Kissing a succubus results in instant death.

Nale and Sabine don't seem to have this particular problem. I guess the soul-sucking genitalia can be turned on and off at will? Huh.

[Innis Cabal]

Or you know. They can control it.

[Turkish Delight]

Or you know. They can control it.

Pfft. The Giant's D&D canon is violating that of Planescape: Torment. That's sacrilege.

[Closak]

Or maybe Deathward works against Succubi just as well as it does against instant kill spells.

[Gamerlord]

Because I seem to recall from 2nd edition sleeping with a Succubus results in getting your soul sucked out and sent to the Abyss. Kissing a succubus results in instant death.

Nale and Sabine don't seem to have this particular problem. I guess the soul-sucking genitalia can be turned on and off at will? Huh.

Changed in 3.5, you just lose a level.

[Turkish Delight]

Changed in 3.5, you just lose a level.

Interesting. And since I doubt Nale is simultaneously dating a nymphomaniac horny demon and losing a level every time he has sex with her, she must be able to turn it on and off at will.

It also makes the potential danger of Sabine going rogue and 'forgetting' to put a damper on her soul-sucking when Nale has outlived his usefulness somewhat less powerful. You can presumably notice when a level is gone and react accordingly, but when your soul gets sucked out overnight? Typically it's for keeps.

So less of a possible plot point than it would have been in 2nd edition, I guess.

[Gamerlord]

Interesting. And since I doubt Nale is simultaneously dating a nymphomaniac horny demon and losing a level every time he has sex with her, she must be able to turn it on and off at will.

It also makes the potential danger of Sabine going rogue and 'forgetting' to put a damper on her soul-sucking when Nale has outlived his usefulness somewhat less powerful. You can presumably notice when a level is gone and react accordingly, but when your soul gets sucked out overnight? Typically it's for keeps.

So less of a possible plot point than it would have been in 2nd edition, I guess.

You can also make a saving throw to resit the affects, and there are many ways to recover a lost level.

[Turkish Delight]

You can also make a saving throw to resit the affects, and there are many ways to recover a lost level.

I've gotta admit, that's kind of lame. I liked it better when sex with the incredibly hot demon temptress sent you to the Abyss in one go, no second chances beyond maybe a saving throw. By the sounds of it, sleeping with a succubus now is basically just like sleeping with someone who has a relatively easy to treat venereal disease. The walking embodiments of the temptations of carnal lust and depravity should not be of a comparable danger with syphilis.

[Gamerlord]

I've gotta admit, that's kind of lame. I liked it better when sex with the incredibly hot demon temptress sent you to the Abyss in one go, no second chances beyond maybe a saving throw. By the sounds of it, sleeping with a succubus now is basically just like sleeping with someone who has a relatively easy to treat venereal disease. The walking embodiments of the temptations of carnal lust and depravity should not be of a comparable danger with syphilis.

There are far worst ways to die in 3.5 though.
The main threat of the level drain is the now, the succubi drains your levels and then has some orcs spring an ambush on you.

[Douglas]

Actually, it's 1 level per kiss, not 1 level for the act of sex, and you have to make a will save on each kiss or accept another kiss - and each lost level gives you a penalty to further saves so it gets harder to stop the further you go. If your will save isn't high enough to stop it in the first 2 or 3 kisses, you are quite likely to be unable to stop the death spiral before she's drained all of your levels, which results in your instant death.

Even if you do get lucky with a natural 20 somewhere along the line, you've got a large number of negative levels already making it ridiculously easy for her to beat you in other ways - probably grappling you, pinning you, and kissing you again despite your resistance, at which point the loop starts over again with your will save already in the dumps.

[Turkish Delight]

Actually, it's 1 level per kiss, not 1 level for the act of sex, and you have to make a will save on each kiss or accept another kiss - and each lost level gives you a penalty to further saves so it gets harder to stop the further you go. If your will save isn't high enough to stop it in the first 2 or 3 kisses, you are quite likely to be unable to stop the death spiral before she's drained all of your levels, which results in your instant death.

Even if you do get lucky with a natural 20 somewhere along the line, you've got a large number of negative levels already making it ridiculously easy for her to beat you in other ways - probably grappling you, pinning you, and kissing you again despite your resistance, at which point the loop starts over again with your will save already in the dumps.

That's much better and more of what I'd expect from a self-respecting succubus.

You didn't mention anything about the effects of actual sex, though. Is that still instant death and a one-way ticket to the Abyss? If so, I can see all sorts of fun story applications in-comic.

[BatRobin]

Artistic liscense.

[Woodsman]

That's much better and more of what I'd expect from a self-respecting succubus.

You didn't mention anything about the effects of actual sex, though. Is that still instant death and a one-way ticket to the Abyss? If so, I can see all sorts of fun story applications in-comic.

It's not in the Monster Manual, so it's anyone's guess.

[rewinn]

That's much better and more of what I'd expect from a self-respecting succubus.

You didn't mention anything about the effects of actual sex, though. Is that still instant death and a one-way ticket to the Abyss? If so, I can see all sorts of fun story applications in-comic.

Two words: Wax Lips.

[Turkish Delight]

It's not in the Monster Manual, so it's anyone's guess.

:smallconfused:

What an utterly bizarre decision to write a whole entry for a demon sub-type and say nothing whatsoever on the subject of the whole reason said sub-type exists in the first place. Maybe it's 'not suitable for general audiences' or something to mention that succubi tend to go in for a bit more than hugging and kissing, but wow, that kind of bowls me over with it's pointlessness.

DM's call then, I guess....which in this case means Rich's call, of course. I'll be interested to see if anything is ever done with Sabine's 'powers' in this regard. As I say, it seems an excellent way to dispense with Nale if the IFCC ever starts to find him a liability.

[Zevox]

It's not in the Monster Manual, so it's anyone's guess.
Yes it is. The Energy Drain ability activates not only during kisses, but during "some act of passion." Sex counts as "some act of passion" last I checked.

Zevox

[martinkou]

Yes it is. The Energy Drain ability activates not only during kisses, but during "some act of passion." Sex counts as "some act of passion" last I checked.

Zevox

I guess Nale had sex with Sabine in full-body condoms every time, then.

[hamishspence]

I think the general rule for supernatural abilities is that the creature doesn't have to use them. So unless Sabine chooses to activate it, Nale is safe.

[SoC175]

As has already been said Death Ward offer complet protection against it

[factotum]

It's slightly inconsistent. Sabine is apparently capable of "switching it off" because of the reasons in this thread, but Wights aren't (note that Tsukiko asks for someone who WON'T drain a level from her to get the cat off when she's being attacked by Mr. Scruffy).

[TheSummoner]

Maybe Nale has the same personal rival thing with Elan that Crystal did with Haley. If that were the case, Nale would always have to be the same level as Elan if not higher... thus Nale has nothing to fear from "contact" with Sabine unless she actively tries to finish him off...

[Asta Kask]

It's slightly inconsistent. Sabine is apparently capable of "switching it off" because of the reasons in this thread, but Wights aren't (note that Tsukiko asks for someone who WON'T drain a level from her to get the cat off when she's being attacked by Mr. Scruffy).

Or perhaps the wight isn't smart enough to do it. Read its lines, it is not a bright wight.

[Green Bean]

That's much better and more of what I'd expect from a self-respecting succubus.


Also, keep in mind that the vast majority of the population is going to have only one or two class levels. Only particularly heroic or important individuals are going to last more than a few minutes with a succubus.

[drengnikrafe]

First of all, it probably isn't death ward. Nale is a Fighter/Rogue/Sorcerer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131219). Death Ward (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deathWard.htm) is a Cleric/Druid/Death/Paladin Spell. He also has no evidence of having any item that would grant him that ability.

Next, I always imagined it is silly to state you can turn on or off your abilities at will. It's only mildly dissimilar to stating "A fish can turn off it's gills at will". Yes, there is a difference, and yes, I am exaggerating it. The point still exists by some small means.

Next, to what Zevox said. About it being "Some act of passion". It would be fairly lame for Sabine, but what if that was never passionate to her?

[Shale]

To me, it's more like saying that a wasp can land on a person without stinging them.

[Porthos]

If abilities aren't turnoff-able at will in OotS land, at least by some people, them Redcloak is in a heap of trouble each and everytime he is touched by Xykon.

Paralysing Touch, and all.

Heck there's even a minor joke about this in SoD, fwiw.

[Maximum Zersk]

To me, it's more like saying that a wasp can land on a person without stinging them.

They can do that. Stinging somebody is up to them, completely.

[Shale]

Which is exactly my point.

[Porthos]

Let me expand upon this a bit. There doesn't have to be a rule for everything that covers all circumstances that might occur in a situation. That is, DMs can go ahead and make rulings for things that the rules don't discuss.

I can't recall if there are any rules about suppressing Supernatural Abilities or not. But I would think that it would easily fall under the perview of DM Discression if it didn't. Besides, people can Auto-Fail saves (which on some level are supposed to be instinctual and luck based). So why can't someone else turn off something else that is automatic in nature?

As for examples in the comic, we have two explict references that cover this situation:

Tsukiko tells wights not to touch her because of their level draining abilities

and

Redcloak has to tell Xykon about his Paralysing Touch ability.

But in the case of the latter, that has NEVER accidently happened again with this character. And we have seen plenty of times when that character has been in a similar situation where nothing occured.

So the most logical answer is that sufficient self-awareness/intellegence/what-ever-you-want-to-call-it gives one the ability to suppress Supernatural Abilites in OotSland.

Besides the very fact that Nale hasn't been turned into a Wight thanks to Sabine's level draining, of course. :smallwink: