[3.5] Best race for each class?

[Thurbane]

Just wondering, what do people consider the best LA +0 race for each base class? Is human the best in every case?

[elonin]

It really depends on what you are doing. Human is good for a lot of builds due to the bonus feat except for fighter which I tend to like dwarf.

[Thurbane]

OK, sure, some races are best for specific builds, but I guess I mean in general. i.e. If you were advising a new player which race to take for a class he hadn't played before.

[rockdeworld]

Human, same reason as above.

However, some good combinations IMO:
Cleric - Dwarf
Wizard/Sorc - Halfling
Bow user - Elf

[aje8]

For Core Classes:
Wizard: Lesser Tiefling or Strongheart Halfling
Druid: Human or Dragborn Buoman
Fighter or Barbarian: Water Orc
Cleric: Lesser Aasimar(Or however you spell that)
Rogue: Whisper Gnome
Sorcerer: Strongheart Halfling or Lesser Aasimar
Paladin: No idea.

So.... given all books allowed, I actually don't like human for any core class except Druid.

If it's core only..... then it's like human for every class. Orc for like Barbarians and Fighters I guess...... and then human for literally every other class.

[Random NPC]

Human, same reason as above.

However, some good combinations IMO:
Cleric - Dwarf
Wizard/Sorc - Halfling Gnome
Bow user - Elf

Fixed:smalltongue:

[HCL]

human - everything

gnome- caster, especially illusionist bard druid

dwarf- everything but pally, bard, sorc

halflilng- rogue mainly

dont use elf halfelf halforc

[CockroachTeaParty]

Dragonfire Adept: Dragonborn Mongrelfolk. +6 to CON, baby!

[Draz74]

Is this for Core-only? Because if not, then there are a LOT of classes and races to cover. (And some pretty decent LA +0 competition for Humans, too ... Whisper Gnomes, Lesser Tieflings, Strongheart Halfling ...)

[Flickerdart]

Gray Elves (MM) make the best Wizards by far, combining an INT and a DEX bonus, which are the two stats that Wizards enjoy most. The CON penalty can be shored up by Faerie Mysteries Initiate or staying out of harm's way, and the Elven Generalist substitution levels don't exactly hurt either.

Azurins are often better than Humans, since Essentia means an extra point from a Cobalt/Midnight/whatever feat, and a skill point is not very helpful if you have a shoddy list. Strongheart Halflings are also contenders, since the Halfling chassis is superior to the Human one, and the bonus feat can easily be Luck of Heroes, thus making them the same as the run of the mill Halfling but with an extra point of AC on top.

[HCL]

Gray Elves (MM) make the best Wizards by far, combining an INT and a DEX bonus, which are the two stats that Wizards enjoy most. The CON penalty can be shored up by Faerie Mysteries Initiate or staying out of harm's way, and the Elven Generalist substitution levels don't exactly hurt either.

Azurins are often better than Humans, since Essentia means an extra point from a Cobalt/Midnight/whatever feat, and a skill point is not very helpful if you have a shoddy list. Strongheart Halflings are also contenders, since the Halfling chassis is superior to the Human one, and the bonus feat can easily be Luck of Heroes, thus making them the same as the run of the mill Halfling but with an extra point of AC on top.

The basic issue is that elves don't have an awesome racial prestige class like Dwarves and Gnomes. Runesmith and Shadowcraft mage + focused specialist are way better than 2 more int and elven generalist subs

And you may get more milage out of the human/strongheart halfling bonus feat

And then there is Tieflings. Gotta love outsider type.

So no I would not consider grey elf to be the end all wizard race

[deuxhero]

Don't grey elfs get a con hit? Outside of the bonus feat races, I like lesser Tieflings (+2 int AND +2 dex) or (even better) LA bought off tiefling (alter self!)

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I'm a fan of half-nymph and draconic as far as templates go, due to the various stat boosts across the board. Admittedly, I wouldn't play either without LA buy-off on the table.

As always, any and every sort of human is boss for just about any and everything.

[Thurbane]

Is this for Core-only? Because if not, then there are a LOT of classes and races to cover. (And some pretty decent LA +0 competition for Humans, too ... Whisper Gnomes, Lesser Tieflings, Strongheart Halfling ...)
Nope, not just core only.

[Tar Palantir]

Dwarf is pretty awesome. If you're wearing heavy armor and don't desperately need Charisma, you've just got a laundry list of amazing abilities, from the Con bonus to the bonus on saves vs spells and poison (which stack against spells involving poison, BTW), darkvision, stonecunning, miraculous dwarf carrying capacity, skill check bonuses, bonus attack vs orcs and goblins, huge AC bonus vs giants....It's quite handy. If dwarf doesn't fit for whatever reason, humans the natural pick. Other builds might prefer other races, but I find that the extra feat almost always helps (Strongheart Halfling has the same thing going for them, but I don't like the fact that I might very well not be able to carry a Bag of Holding without hitting medium load, since I tend to buy the entire PHB and Dungeonscape mundane item lists).

Of special note is the Warforged. Though not a true construct, their racial immunities are quite potent for LA 0, and an all-Warforged party can be practically unstoppable. Fighting battles inside a Stinking Cloud, healed by Wiz/Sorc spells so we can squeeze another arcanist into the party in the cleric slot (both are Tier 1, but I find doubled wizards more offensively potent than wizard and cleric), all of Necromancy's most fearsome offense (Enervation and Ray of Exhaustion, mostly) does jack squat to you, and you all get to be badass robots. What's not to love?

[Eldariel]

The basic issue is that elves don't have an awesome racial prestige class like Dwarves and Gnomes. Runesmith and Shadowcraft mage + focused specialist are way better than 2 more int and elven generalist subs

Shadowcraft Mage is the one exception. Otherwise, Gray Elf is pretty damn good, especially with the doubling of familiar bonus (hello, Hummingbird). The Con-penalty sucks, but frankly, outside Lesser Tiefling, nothing gains a more advantageous ability spread.

Elven racial abilities also somewhat help a Wizard, though of course, FMI shouldn't be expected to be the default. It's worth noting that Dragonborn Gray Elf gets rid of the Con-penalty, leaving +2 Int, -2 Str; ideal, all things considered.


Of course, that isn't to say Gray Elf is the only good Wizard-race (though I feel it beats out Fire Elf on back of Cha being somewhat relevant for Charm-line, Planar Binding-line and UMD); there's Neraphim (and base Outsider type for Polymorph-fun), Elan (and base Aberration-type for Alter Self-fun), Gnome (and the Illusionist Awesome), Lesser Tiefling (and...yeah, nice stats), Tiefling (with buyoff, it's a fine race; Outsider Awesome combined with great stats), Strongheart Halfling (let's face it, sometimes the feat really counts), Human (and sometimes even the skill point; most of the time, Strongheart beats out Human for a Wizard tho), Whisper Gnome (this needs no explanation) and company.

[Optimystik]

Psion - Kalashtar (get far more PP than Elan, and no Cha hit.)
Psiforged are a good choice as well, for the various immunities above.

Warforged also make great Artificers due to the flavor synergy and the ability to heal themselves.


Strongheart Halflings are also contenders, since the Halfling chassis is superior to the Human one, and the bonus feat can easily be Luck of Heroes, thus making them the same as the run of the mill Halfling but with an extra point of AC on top.

Yes, but the 20 ft. move speed can be a dealbreaker, not to mention the smaller weapon die.


The basic issue is that elves don't have an awesome racial prestige class like Dwarves and Gnomes. Runesmith and Shadowcraft mage + focused specialist are way better than 2 more int and elven generalist subs.

Dwarves and Gnomes don't get the awesomness of Arcane Hierophant Apparently they do, go figure!

[erikun]

I'm not quite sure what a +4 to Listen is going to do you, especially at mid levels with no skill ranks and low Wisdom.

Gnomes are my preferred wizards. Constitution bonus means they'll likely have twice the HP of their elven friends, bonuses to hide, bonuses to casting illusion, racial Spell-Like Abilities, and an additional dodge bonus against giants. Gray Elf has an Intelligence bonus, but loses the +1 AC and +1 to hit that the (small sized) Gnome still retains. Plus, if we're talking about variants, the Forest Gnome (MM) has a racial +4 to hide, with another +4 in forests; that's +12 to hide total. Whisper Gnomes don't have a Constitution bonus (still better than the Elf though) but get an additional boost to Dexterity, better speed plus better Spell-Like Abilities. And if that isn't enough, Tinker Gnomes get a bonus to Intelligence along with their Constitution bonus. (and a penality to Wisdom, but I believe they have a bonus to Will saves anyways)

Oh yes, and the Lesser Svirfneblin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a). Bonus to Dex, bonus to Con, darkvision, low light vision, and all the fun gnome bonuses, at LA +0.

[Dixieboy]

Dwarves and Gnomes don't get the awesomness of Arcane Hierophant :smallwink:

Pretty sure that thing doesn't have racial requirements. :smallredface:

[Optimystik]

Pretty sure that thing doesn't have racial requirements. :smallredface:

What do you know, it doesn't. Which leads me to wonder why it was in the "elf supplement." My mistake.

[erikun]

Possibly because elves have Favored Class: Wizard? So that you could take Wizard 3/Druid 3/Arcane Hierophant 10 and then progress whichever class they wish? Of course, that tends to ignore that Mystic Thurge is the best class to to take for the next 4 levels.

[Optimystik]

Possibly because elves have Favored Class: Wizard? So that you could take Wizard 3/Druid 3/Arcane Hierophant 10 and then progress whichever class they wish?

Humans have no problem doing so either (Favored Class Any).

Spellscales (+2 CHA, -2 CON) make powerful Sorcerers, and with their meditations have access to a variety of bonus feats for free (e.g. Eschew Materials, Silent Spell, Improved Counterspell etc.) which can easily make up for the Human's bonus feat.

[rockdeworld]

Fixed:smalltongue:
Only for illusionists. Otherwise I like the +Dex and save bonuses.

[Curmudgeon]

Some variant of Elf often works well for Rogues. You've got the DEX bonus, some help in avoiding magic that Rogues don't have good defenses for, low-light vision, a better ranged weapon proficiency, and automatic Search checks for secret doors. Plus there's the extra 4 hours of not sleeping every day when a Rogue can be out making some cash on the side.

[Optimystik]

Also, being 10ft. faster helps when you're escaping with the loot.

[BobVosh]

Human is never terrible, and usually best.
Grey Elf is great wizard.
Stronghearted halfing is great for whatever human is great for that isn't melee.
Lesser Asimar is of course good. Simply because it is a buffed LA1 race that counts as LA0.
ShadowWhisper Gnomes is promising for stealth based, also the best gnome race for the Deadly Gnome Race.

[Tetsubo 57]

For Core Classes:
Wizard: Lesser Tiefling or Strongheart Halfling
Druid: Human or Dragborn Buoman
Fighter or Barbarian: Water Orc
Cleric: Lesser Aasimar(Or however you spell that)
Rogue: Whisper Gnome
Sorcerer: Strongheart Halfling or Lesser Aasimar
Paladin: No idea.

So.... given all books allowed, I actually don't like human for any core class except Druid.

If it's core only..... then it's like human for every class. Orc for like Barbarians and Fighters I guess...... and then human for literally every other class.

I've never really looked at the Water Orc before. It is rather nice, isn't it? Make a great Marine. :)

[Eldariel]

I'm not quite sure what a +4 to Listen is going to do you, especially at mid levels with no skill ranks and low Wisdom.

Gnomes are my preferred wizards. Constitution bonus means they'll likely have twice the HP of their elven friends, bonuses to hide, bonuses to casting illusion, racial Spell-Like Abilities, and an additional dodge bonus against giants. Gray Elf has an Intelligence bonus, but loses the +1 AC and +1 to hit that the (small sized) Gnome still retains. Plus, if we're talking about variants, the Forest Gnome (MM) has a racial +4 to hide, with another +4 in forests; that's +12 to hide total. Whisper Gnomes don't have a Constitution bonus (still better than the Elf though) but get an additional boost to Dexterity, better speed plus better Spell-Like Abilities. And if that isn't enough, Tinker Gnomes get a bonus to Intelligence along with their Constitution bonus. (and a penality to Wisdom, but I believe they have a bonus to Will saves anyways)

Oh yes, and the Lesser Svirfneblin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a). Bonus to Dex, bonus to Con, darkvision, low light vision, and all the fun gnome bonuses, at LA +0.

Actually, Elves have Dex bonus over Gnomes so they're matched in Ac and To Hit. Gnome hides better, but whatever. Elf has bonus to casting stat. I needn't tell you why that's a good idea (it starts with extra spell per day and eventually comes down to extra 9th level spell, btw; in addition to DC increases and all that jazz).

[HCL]

Shadowcraft Mage is the one exception. Otherwise, Gray Elf is pretty damn good, especially with the doubling of familiar bonus (hello, Hummingbird). The Con-penalty sucks, but frankly, outside Lesser Tiefling, nothing gains a more advantageous ability spread.

Elven racial abilities also somewhat help a Wizard, though of course, FMI shouldn't be expected to be the default. It's worth noting that Dragonborn Gray Elf gets rid of the Con-penalty, leaving +2 Int, -2 Str; ideal, all things considered.


Of course, that isn't to say Gray Elf is the only good Wizard-race (though I feel it beats out Fire Elf on back of Cha being somewhat relevant for Charm-line, Planar Binding-line and UMD); there's Neraphim (and base Outsider type for Polymorph-fun), Elan (and base Aberration-type for Alter Self-fun), Gnome (and the Illusionist Awesome), Lesser Tiefling (and...yeah, nice stats), Tiefling (with buyoff, it's a fine race; Outsider Awesome combined with great stats), Strongheart Halfling (let's face it, sometimes the feat really counts), Human (and sometimes even the skill point; most of the time, Strongheart beats out Human for a Wizard tho), Whisper Gnome (this needs no explanation) and company.

Hummingbird is Dragon material and isn't allowed in most games, and it can't talk so no UMDing items for you.

[KurtKatze]

Hmm i found the substitution level in "Races of Wild" for an elven Generalist Wizard quite interesting. Although i agree the bad constitution sucks...

Is the racial substitution also possible with a grey elf or wild elf or only with the PHB elf?

[HCL]

Hmm i found the substitution level in "Races of Wild" for an elven Generalist Wizard quite interesting. Although i agree the bad constitution sucks...

Is the racial substitution also possible with a grey elf or wild elf or only with the PHB elf?

It does not specify high elf, any elf can do it

Not sure why you would want to play a wild elf wizard though :)

[Eldariel]

Hummingbird is Dragon material and isn't allowed in most games, and it can't talk so no UMDing items for you.

Eh, not every Wizard has access to UMD anyways. It's one of the better uses of Familiar-slot. And sure, it's Dragon-material, but hey, FMI was already brought up.

Basically, want to make a Shadowcraft Mage? Go Rock Gnome. Want to make anything else? Go Gray Elf, Lesser Tiefling, Human, Strongheart Halfling or Type Abuse Race. Just never underestimate bonus to casting stat on a caster.

[ericgrau]

PH classes & races:
Barbarian: Dwarf or Half-orc
Bard: Half-elf (social skillmonkey) or Elf (skillmonkey)
Cleric: - (see below)
Druid: Gnome or Dwarf
Fighter: Dwarf
Monk: Half-orc
Paladin: - (see below)
Ranger: - (melee, see below) or Elf (range)
Rogue: Elf (skillmonkey)
Sorcerer & Wizards: Gnome, or maybe Dwarf

Human is good for all but a straight fighter, because of the extra feat. Gnomes and halflings are also good for every full BAB class due to the size bonuses, but if falls apart if you want a tripper or etc.

[KurtKatze]

It does not specify high elf, any elf can do it

Not sure why you would want to play a wild elf wizard though :)


Yeah ^^ minus to int, wasnt it?

Just wanted to state some examples of elf-variants didn't really think about that.

[dspeyer]

Three I'm surprised haven't been mentioned:

Kobold for arcane casters. Small size, +dex, natural armor, 30' speed. Helps with your AC, which needs it. The con hit can be a problem, but no worse than an elf. Kobolds might make good rogues too, but the strength could become a problem. This is just in core -- if you add Races of the Dragon, they get even better.

Goliath for any tank over level 5 or so. The size and strength bonuses make the la worth it, especially once the con bonus fills in the missing hit points. And that's before la buyoff.

Half-celestial whatever paladins over level 10 or so. Sure the LA is high, but when you're MAD as can be this fills in nicely. The fluff fits too. And you're not losing the high-level paladin class features because they don't get any.

[aje8]

Kobold for arcane casters. Small size, +dex, natural armor, 30' speed. Helps with your AC, which needs it. The con hit can be a problem, but no worse than an elf. Kobolds might make good rogues too, but the strength could become a problem. This is just in core -- if you add Races of the Dragon, they get even better.
Thing about Kobolds though is that Strongheart Halfling is usually better. The Halfling doesn't take the con hit AND gets a bonus feat.

If you add races of the dragon..... they're kinda outright broken so I usually ignore their existance.

Oh and for another thing:
Ranger or Scout with an Archer Build: Wild Elf. +2 Strength and Dex.

[Soranar]

It would take too long to review each an every class so I'll just comment on the races themselves

human is really hard to beat for any spellcasting class, and the lack of a favored class makes strange combos possible that you would never get otherwise

any -INT race is usually fairly terrible = they're usually decent at fighting but most fighting classes (except Barb) need INT to get their basic skills

any -CON race is always a problem, offense and defense is nice and all but if you lack HP you will die long before your cleric gets to you

ECL hits are bad for any spellcasters, you want to cast as high as possible as quickly as possible, unless you're playing at epic levels you will not see a true improvement over taking a human with the spellcasting prodigy feat

small races are good for rogues and , oddly enough, for mounted charging builds (since they ride medium creatures they get to charge in dungeons)

the crown goes to Strongheart Halfling for small mounted builds: you get a bonus feat and access to Halfling Outrider PrC

Halfling make decent spellcasters, just like humans, but their lack of mobility can get them in trouble at lower levels when they're especially squishy

I rarely play gnomes but their bonus to spellcasting combined with the CON bonus is significant enough to say they probably make the best illusionists

Dwarves a good at everything , a lot like humans, and get access to very good prestige classes too (Dwarven Defender, Runecaster)

And since you can pick a - in DEX or CHA I would say they can make excellent Paladins (Paladin+ Dwarven Defender makes one tough tank)
and great Clerics (Dwarven waraxe access)

since divine casters don't require as many feats IMO, I think dwarves are superior to humans for cleric builds, but barely

finally Half-elves are inferior to humans but get access to elf and half-elves only PrC so they might be superior in very specific builds

most other races should be covered by the -INT, -CON or the ECL comment

and ECL adjusted race can usually pull off MAD builds but, as stated earlier, you won't get to really enjoy the stats until you reach higher levels (12-15+)
so I would rarely if ever recommend them

MAD builds also tend to be subpar in proper groups , if you're soloing a campaign in a video game they look great but specializing is usually the way to go in a normal campaign with companions

[HCL]

For a mounted build I would actually go for Wild Dwarf (Faerun), one of the few a small races without a negative strength mod.

[Eldariel]

Thing about Kobolds though is that Strongheart Halfling is usually better. The Halfling doesn't take the con hit AND gets a bonus feat.

If you add races of the dragon..... they're kinda outright broken so I usually ignore their existance.

The environmental variant Kobolds are fine tho; Jungle/Desert Kobolds (penalty to Wis/Int respectively) make for fine casters not focused on the stat they have a penalty to. And Dragonwrought only makes 'em better.

[erikun]

Some variant of Elf often works well for Rogues.
Yes, I find it interesting that standard Elves make excellent rogues, while standard Halflings make excellent wizards. Very strange how that worked out. :smalltongue:


Actually, Elves have Dex bonus over Gnomes so they're matched in Ac and To Hit... Elf has bonus to casting stat.
It's one or the other, though. The standard Elf has the same AC and To-Hit as a small race, but no bonus casting stat. The Grey Elf has a bonus to the casting stat, but no bonus to AC or To-Hit.

And there's no extra spell slot unless you're starting with 20 INT - common in optimization but not so common in most games.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Kobolds actually make good low level Rogues. 3 natural attacks+SA=Pain, and you can snag Desert Kobold for a penalty to Wis over Con.

Sorcerer? Kobold, for the free level of spellcasting.

[Eldariel]

It's one or the other, though. The standard Elf has the same AC and To-Hit as a small race, but no bonus casting stat. The Grey Elf has a bonus to the casting stat, but no bonus to AC or To-Hit.

And there's no extra spell slot unless you're starting with 20 INT - common in optimization but not so common in most games.

No, it's definitely both. In addition, not instead of.

[erikun]

Well now, it seems I was wrong. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm#grayElf) You learn something new every day.

[Flickerdart]

Dwarven Defender isn't a good PrC at all, so that's hardly a plus for the Dwarves; not that they need one. The universal dump stat gets a penalty in exchange for the one ability everyone wants? Yes please!

[Optimystik]

Dwarven Defender isn't a good PrC at all, so that's hardly a plus for the Dwarves; not that they need one. The universal dump stat gets a penalty in exchange for the one ability everyone wants? Yes please!

I'd rather have 30 ft. move myself :smalltongue:

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I'd rather have 30 ft. move myself :smalltongue:If you're a Cleric or a Fighter, though, you do. :smallwink:

[Thurbane]

I'd rather have 30 ft. move myself :smalltongue:
Human in full plate + Boots of Striding & Springing = 30 ft.
Dwarf in full plate + Boots of Striding & Springing = 30 ft.

[Zaydos]

Human in full plate + Boots of Striding & Springing = 30 ft.
Dwarf in full plate + Boots of Striding & Springing = 30 ft.

Gets better.
Human running in full plate + Boots of Striding & Springing = 90 ft.
Dwarf running in full plate + Boots of Striding & Springing = 120 ft.
Not that you ever run in the first place normally.

[Samb]

The changling is already a great race but a changling rogue is even better.