What would you prefer: No spending on/getting presents or getting/spending?

[Pika...]

Well, since becoming an atheist a few years back I have not bothered celebrating xmas. Seeing the Fable mistake thread and seeing the OP there is $350 in debt due to buying gifts makes me think that not getting much/any presents sure beats the cash sink it takes out of you. If my grandmother was not so insistent on giving me a few dollars and some pants I would have gotten nothing, which I am OK with.

Also, the stress is insane. My family was SO stressed out over all this. I mean, isn't this supposed to be all relaxing and stuff? I who was not celebrating all this was the calmest and most relaxed off us all. I would even go as far as to say I enjoyed the holiday season more than anyone.

So what about all of you? Would you prefer not needing to spend so much on gifts, but not getting any as a consequence? Or do you preferring spending the fortune knowing you will get some stuff in exchange? Is the stress a big deal for all of you?

[BizzaroStormy]

I too am an atheist, so I celebrate x-mas instead of christmas.

The reason I was in debt was due to the fact that I had $0 to my name when I started thinking about getting gifts. I mainly use x-mas as a way to make up for forgetting all my firned's birthdays since I can't remember a birthday to save my life.

[Crimmy]

Now, supposedly, Pirate, you shouldn't celebrate Christmas because, well, it's a religious holiday, and you say you're atheist. I'm sorry, but I can't compute.

Also, given the fact of real-life and religion, I smell a warning of some sort in this thread.
And if people don't watch it, it might get closified.

[Pika...]

I too am an atheist, so I celebrate x-mas instead of christmas.

The reason I was in debt was due to the fact that I had $0 to my name when I started thinking about getting gifts. I mainly use x-mas as a way to make up for forgetting all my firned's birthdays since I can't remember a birthday to save my life.

I see. Still seemed stressful.


Hmm. Maybe I am just ascending above material possessions?

Honestly, a good few hours talking to some nice people seems more valuable to me than them getting me a gift, and not to mention having to deal with all the issues (cash, time, stress) of getting them one. >_>

[BizzaroStormy]

Now, supposedly, Pirate, you shouldn't celebrate Christmas because, well, it's a religious holiday, and you say you're atheist. I'm sorry, but I can't compute.

Also, given the fact of real-life and religion, I smell a warning of some sort in this thread.
And if people don't watch it, it might get closified.

I don't celebrate christmas, I already said that I celebrate x-mas. A non-religious holiday in which people exchange gifts because no matter what they say, everyone loves presents.

As for what Pika... said, I can talk to these people any day of the week but this is the one time of year that I can give out awesome stuff and not seem creepy for it.

[Pika...]

As for what Pika... said, I can talk to these people any day of the week but this is the one time of year that I can give out awesome stuff and not seem creepy for it.

You can seem creepy for giving people awesome stuff? O.o

[BizzaroStormy]

You can seem creepy for giving people awesome stuff? O.o

I spend roughly $40-$80 per person when it comes to x-mas. If I tried that any other time of the year, it would seem weird. Not to mention I would go broke.

[Boo]

Better to concentrate on the question than the reasoning, people. We want to avoid religious discussion, remember?

Q: "Would you prefer not needing to spend so much on gifts, but not getting any as a consequence? Or do you preferring spending the fortune knowing you will get some stuff in exchange? Is the stress a big deal for all of you?" ~ Pika...

This question is rather black and white. It's simplifying the whole gift exchange idea in that it's saying "you get something for something or nothing for nothing". Really I could get something for nothing (or vise versa) in terms of cost, but it could still be something for something.

Cost has little to do with the actual giving/acquiring of gifts in my experience. My family and I really don't spend that much, and we all get some neat things from one another. Celebrating the holidays has nothing to do with the gifts either. It's just as you described in your second last post:

"...a good few hours talking to some nice people..."

Gifts are sort of a bonus to a celebration in my opinion. Like a birthday. You don't NEED the presents to celebrate, but you can still receive them.

@Pika's latest post: Yes. Yes you can.

[Mando Knight]

...Stress? What stress?
...
...
...Oooh.

Sorry, I've long since abandoned paying attention to the materialistic view of the holiday. Of course, it probably has something to do with who my father is...

[BizzaroStormy]

Sorry, I've long since abandoned paying attention to the materialistic view of the holiday. Of course, it probably has something to do with who my father is...

Santa Claus?

[Pika...]

...Stress? What stress?
...
...
...Oooh.

LoL.

I had to stop by my local big mall the night before xmas to bring something to my aunt who was last minute shopping. Have you seen malls on that night? Actually it was still afternoon, but you could really see the stress on her, my grandmother, my cousin, and pretty much everyone in the mall. It made me feel stressed, even though I was not there to buy a thing.

[thubby]

getting and giving gifts is fun. besides which, you can get all the gifts for dirt cheap because of the holiday.

[UnChosenOne]

I don't celebrate christmas, I already said that I celebrate x-mas. A non-religious holiday...

Even though this will mostlikely make me look like bessserwisser.
The "X" in Xmas is from the Greek letter Chi, which is the first letter of Χριστός, Christ in Greek
For those of you who want chack it by our own eyes. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas).

[Swordgleam]

Even though this will mostlikely make me look like bessserwisser.
For those of you who want chack it by our own eyes. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas).

Beat me to it. As a classics geek, I felt duty bound to point out that "Christ" was being abbreviated "X" even in ancient times.


My housemates and I are all different religions - Catholic, Jewish, Unitarian, and gods only know what. We exchanged gifts without calling it anything in particular. My best friend and I celebrated Saturnalia last year, and I was thinking of having a Solstice party this year. You don't need to subscribe to a particular religion to exchange gifts this time of year, though it certainly helps in terms of timing things - it's awkward to give/receive a gift and then wait a week for the opposite.

As for the original topic, I like giving and receiving gifts. It's nice to give people things they wouldn't have gotten on their own, and it's fun to be surprised by things for me that I haven't picked out myself. I wouldn't go into debt or expect anyone else to do so, though. One person gave me a plastic sword and a chocolate bar this season, and I'm perfectly happy with that.

[Escef]

Because of my time in the Army, this past Christmas was the first I spent at home since '05. I could have gotten nothing and I would have been perfectly happy.

It has also occurred to me that couples in a good marriage must find Christmas rather odd. Your partner got you something nice. That's great. Who paid for you it? Oh, yeah, you did. You got your partner something nice as well. Who paid for that? They did. When for most purposes you are one economic entity, does it matter who gets what for which of you? Either way you're both paying for it.

[Swordgleam]

It has also occurred to me that couples in a good marriage must find Christmas rather odd. Your partner got you something nice. That's great. Who paid for you it? Oh, yeah, you did. You got your partner something nice as well. Who paid for that? They did. When for most purposes you are one economic entity, does it matter who gets what for which of you? Either way you're both paying for it.

My best friend and I have a similar arrangement, in that we split purchases and loan each other money so often that we joke about having a joint checking account. We never buy each other things we couldn't afford on our own, and usually spend about the same amount. What makes it different is that neither of us would feel justified in buying, say, a sword, for ourselves. But buying one for your friend? Totally justified. And getting one as a gift? Totally awesome. Each person gets something that makes them happy without having to feel guilty about it, even though, for all practical economic reasons, we might as well have bought our own swords for ourselves.

[Felixaar]

I love getting people presents, but doing it out of obligation can be a little weird at times. The problem is that most people I see at Christmas, I only see at Christmas, and dont keep in contact with them enough to have a decent idea of presents. I mean, I could get my brother a hang glider and my sister a deck of tarot cards, because I know those are their interests, but they both already have those.

And what would I get my other siblings? Child care. Or in my brothers case, a big sign saying "Run, Run While You Still Can." (he's moving in with his girlfriend and I'm one to crack jokes.)

[Setra]

I flat out tell everyone I know: Don't bother getting me anything because I won't be getting you anything.

I also tell everyone the same for Birthdays, don't get me anything because I won't be getting you anything for yours.

I still do get a gift or two on occasion but the people giving them understand I won't be getting them anything.. (Except I do because I feel guilty)

[Mando Knight]

Santa Claus?

No, that's my mom's older brother.

I'm only half-joking.

[Solaris]

I flat out tell everyone I know: Don't bother getting me anything because I won't be getting you anything.

I also tell everyone the same for Birthdays, don't get me anything because I won't be getting you anything for yours.

I still do get a gift or two on occasion but the people giving them understand I won't be getting them anything.. (Except I do because I feel guilty)

I do the same thing. Well, kinda. I will sometimes give out a few presents. It's not about money - I'm a single soldier living in the barracks with few bills and no responsibilities. It's really the people expecting a gift that annoys me most. They're just not grateful if you give 'em a gift that they were expecting.

[Syka]

I only do presents for immediate family (mom, sister, dad, Aunt), my boyfriend, and said boyfriend's family. With my family, it's...odd. Like, this year my sister got her Christmas present in October, lol. My boyfriend knew weeks before I picked it up what he was getting, just as I know what he's getting me (he didn't order it until the day after Christmas, though, haha).

With us it's not the presents or the money that matters. For my boyfriend, it's getting him something he didn't really have the money for (Borderlands). With people's presents to me, for items that weren't cash (which...cash was awesome...my textbooks are way expensive this term), it was stuff I wouldn't have bought for myself otherwise 'cause I'm weird like that (like the XKCD book Oz is getting me). I really don't care that what I got him cost 3x more than the book- I love books and I love XKCD and that's what matters. He's been dying for a good multiplayer and loves Borderlands, and THAT'S what matters. Getting something we'd enjoy that we wouldn't otherwise get ourselves is how my family rolls on Christmas. And we don't stress about it. :)

Would I ever go in debt for Christmas? Only if it was for my children. Anyone else would understand my situation, and my friends and I (being poor college students) already don't ever exchange gifts.


ETA: And I never give with the hope of recieving in return. If I give a gift, it's a gift given with no strings. Attaching strings to get something in return ignores the purpose of gift giving.

ETA 2: I never want to work another holiday season in retail ever ever again. Evar. It's...insane is a polite term.

[Dracomorph]

I'm an atheist who celebrates Christmas, and I love gift-giving. (Christmas is pretty much a cultural holiday in the US, religion or no.)

Giving and receiving gifts is one of those little things that tie people together, and I'll take any excuse to do a gift exchange. I wish there were more, honestly. Nothing says "I care about you," like considering what the other person wants, and putting your money (or time: handmade is great too) where your mouth is. You just can't argue with it.

Even so, I'm disappointed with commercialism being as rampant as it is, and with the truly ludicrous amounts of toys people buy. Gifts, in my opinion, should be about getting a person what they need as well as what they want, and there should be more focus on little useful things, that aren't terribly expensive.

[BizzaroStormy]

Even so, I'm disappointed with commercialism being as rampant as it is, and with the truly ludicrous amounts of toys people buy. Gifts, in my opinion, should be about getting a person what they need as well as what they want, and there should be more focus on little useful things, that aren't terribly expensive.

Well keep in mind that traditionally, children get toys for x-mas. Christmas may be a whole 'nother story depending on your family but I wont get into that. Anyway, toys (which children don't really need, but they want) will make them happy, and stuff they need (like clothes) will often make them sad.

There's a reason little bobby throws his new pair jeans in the pile with the torn wrapping papaer and empty boxes...he just doesn't care. Even nowadays I really don't like getting stuff like clothing and soap for x-mas. Witty t-shirts, awesome hats, and things of that nature are fine but the next pair of socks I get are going to be someone's x-mas dinner. :smallfurious:

[Harr]

The issue here isn't about money. You can always avoid spending a fortune on gifts, by going to token-gifts, home-made gifts, sentimental or nostalgia gifts, joke-gifts, or fan-gifts or even cards for pete's sake. Of course people will try to make it sound like it's all about the money, because that's a lot more legitimate-sounding than what it's really about: Laziness.

People who choose not to give gifts are doing so not out of some post-modern religious enlightenment like they would have you believe, but because they just can't be bothered to deal with it. "Oh maaaan.... you mean I actually have to walk into a mall deal with numbers of people?? Like, I actually have to put some thought or effort or time into someone else for a change?? Unnngghhh...... I'd so rather just sit here and play video games all day, and all the effort I would have made getting gifts I can instead put it into making up justifications why I didn't. Yeah, awesome idea."

Giving gifts in this day and age has nothing to do with religion. It's just what you do. It's called being a nice and well-adjusted person who has their life under control. Sure, the "I'm an atheist now" arguments may fly with your family and loved ones for two, maybe three or even four years, but don't be surprised if the more holiday seasons pass, the more that a thin invisible wall of silent resentment builds up between them and you, as they realize just how little effort you'd really need to make just to be nice to them during a time of year that is stressful for them, and how you consistently choose to be nice to yourself instead.

[Escef]

The issue here isn't about money. You can always avoid spending a fortune on gifts, by going to token-gifts, home-made gifts, sentimental or nostalgia gifts, joke-gifts, or fan-gifts or even cards for pete's sake. Of course people will try to make it sound like it's all about the money, because that's a lot more legitimate-sounding than what it's really about: Laziness.

How about sincerity? If all you get someone is a token gift that simply shows that you are only getting them a gift from a sense of social obligation. You don't actually want to get them anything.

I enjoy giving gifts as much as anyone. But I will give them to immediate family and close friends only. I will not expend the time, energy, nor money to get gifts for cousins, aunts, uncles, etc. that I haven't heard from in years. I was away from home for a few years. When I was in Germany my family back home had my phone number and address. Only a handful of family members and friends stayed in contact. If you can't be bothered to call me or shoot me an email so much as once in 3 years why should I spare you a second thought?

[Dracomorph]

The issue here isn't about money. You can always avoid spending a fortune on gifts, by going to token-gifts, home-made gifts, sentimental or nostalgia gifts, joke-gifts, or fan-gifts or even cards for pete's sake. Of course people will try to make it sound like it's all about the money, because that's a lot more legitimate-sounding than what it's really about: Laziness.

No, that's sure not the only factor, and time and money tie in together, too. If you can't make enough money to pay for Christmas presents, you probably don't have the spare time to make them either.

And, you know, as much as I like gift-giving, that doesn't mean that those who don't celebrate Christmas are somehow without moral fiber. Refusing to participate in a holiday for moral/ethical/philosophical reasons is a perfectly legitimate means of protest, and denigrating the people who do such is just being thick.

@PirateJesus: Sure, kids only get excited about toys. That ties back in to consumer culture in a broader sense than just Christmas, but Christmas just really brings it into sight.

Not to say that I would refuse to give kids toys, just that the reasons they want them are less... self-derived.