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View Full Version : 1st level wizard spells to persist.



MichielHagen
2009-12-28, 05:43 AM
What are good 1st level Wizard spells to persist. Also 2nd level is an option for the near future.

I play D&D 3.5, all books allowed, except for non-Faerun-setting books and no Dragon Magazine or internet stuff.

I can persist some lvl 1 spells with an Incantatrix. My spellcraft is not higher to persist higher level spells. I do not need methods to increase my spellcraft, i know them, but will not use them.

What i have so far is:
Shield
Protection from Evil

And some utility spells i am considering:
Comprehend Languages
Detect Secret Doors
Detect Undead
Disguise Self
Ebon Eyes
Eyes of the Avoral

taltamir
2009-12-28, 06:31 AM
true strike... if you use ranged touch attack spells.

Greymane
2009-12-28, 06:42 AM
I don't believe you can Persist True Strike, as its effects are discharged after the round the spell is cast, and Persistent Spell mentions that discharged effects can't be Persisted.

Johel
2009-12-28, 06:51 AM
Expeditious Retreat can be fun.

MichielHagen
2009-12-28, 07:04 AM
I considered Expeditious Retreat, but it does not fit the flavor of my character at all. I forgot to mention that spell.

He is a very old man, who can hardly move at all. He uses Persistent Greater Dimension Door as his movement mode most (almost all) of the time.

Radar
2009-12-28, 07:16 AM
True Strike is good for one attack anyway, so persisting it doesn't do anything usefull. Critical Strike (Complete Adventurer) might be a nice buff tough, if you could share it with other party members (range is Personal).

Nerveskitter (Magic of Faerun) is a +5 to initiative, so nothing to sneeze at.

pasko77
2009-12-28, 07:18 AM
Expeditious Retreat can be fun.

Only if you have Benny hill soundtrack.

MichielHagen
2009-12-28, 07:18 AM
Nerveskitter from the Spell Compendium has a range of close, does the Magic of Faerun have a different range?

Optimystik
2009-12-28, 07:39 AM
Nerveskitter from the Spell Compendium has a range of close, does the Magic of Faerun have a different range?

MoF's version is touch range.

Radar
2009-12-28, 07:42 AM
Nerveskitter from the Spell Compendium has a range of close, does the Magic of Faerun have a different range?
It's a touch spell, as far as I know.

MeTheGameGuy
2009-12-28, 07:47 AM
Prestidigitation (0th level) allows you to perform cheap conjuring tricks all day long. Although you are spending a 6th level slot on what amounts to sparkly lights and small hovering objects. :smallbiggrin:

Optimystik
2009-12-28, 08:15 AM
IIRC, you can't persist prestidigitation because it has a variable range. Nerveskitter fails this litmus as well, having a variable range not only across editions (touch in 3.0, close in 3.5) but due to its 3.5 range not being fixed. (25ft., +5 ft./2 levels.)

MichielHagen
2009-12-28, 08:21 AM
Sounds like fun, but simply memorizing a few (they last one hour) would have about the same effect.

J.Gellert
2009-12-28, 08:21 AM
Persistent Disguise Self to look like a heavily armed and armored brute. With a tower shield.

And that's the last you will hear your enemies crying "CASTER! Kill him first!"

Might not fit your style, though :smallbiggrin:

MeTheGameGuy
2009-12-28, 09:00 AM
IIRC, you can't persist prestidigitation because it has a variable range.

Nope, SRD says (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/Prestidigitation.htm) the range is a flat 10 feet. Should persist just fine.

I can't actually find the Persist Spell feat in the SRD anywhere, though... :smallconfused:


Sounds like fun, but simply memorizing a few (they last one hour) would have about the same effect.

True. The best result would be some way to use Permanency with it, since then you could use simple conjurations as much as desired forever. But preparing three or four should really be enough.

Optimystik
2009-12-28, 09:05 AM
Nope, SRD says (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/Prestidigitation.htm) the range is a flat 10 feet. Should persist just fine.

I can't actually find the Persist Spell feat in the SRD anywhere, though... :smallconfused:

Ah, I was reading the wrong line of the spell. It should be fine for persisting then, though why you'd want to do it would indeed be curious.

As for Persistent Spell, it's under the Divine section (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#persistentSpell) of the SRD for some reason.

MeTheGameGuy
2009-12-28, 09:11 AM
Ah, I was reading the wrong line of the spell. It should be fine for persisting then, though why you'd want to do it would indeed be curious.
For roleplaying! :smallwink:


As for Persistent Spell, it's under the Divine section (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#persistentSpell) of the SRD for some reason.

... does it still work as an arcane feat if it's in there? :smallconfused:

Bayar
2009-12-28, 09:24 AM
Detect magic could work as well.

Saintjebus
2009-12-28, 10:08 AM
It's under Divine because it appeared in Complete Divine. But yes, it will work with arcane.

Douglas
2009-12-28, 10:13 AM
As for Persistent Spell, it's under the Divine section (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#persistentSpell) of the SRD for some reason.
That's because the only OGL source it's printed in is Deities and Demigods. WotC wanted that book to be independent of all non core rulebooks but they also wanted to use several non core feats for their deity builds, so they just reprinted every non core feat they wanted to use for a deity.

Persistent Spell is also in Complete Arcane, but that book is not open content that can legally be included in an online SRD.


He is a very old man, who can hardly move at all. He uses Persistent Greater Dimension Door as his movement mode most (almost all) of the time.
How do you pull that one off if your spellcraft is only enough for level 1 Persistent spells? Instant Metamagic was changed by errata to not work if you don't have a spell slot high enough level to use the metamagic without it. Unless you've reduced Persistent Spell to a 4 level metamagic you'd have to be epic to pull that off, and even with that reduction you'd need 9th level spells.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-12-28, 10:34 AM
Nightshield (SC) gives a nice bonus on saves.

Note that touch-range spells do not have a 'fixed' range as per Persistent Spell's requirement. A touch-range spell has a variable range based on the caster's size/reach, only a spell with a range of personal or one that gives a set, non-variable number of feet can be made Persistent. Expeditious Retreat would not be a valid choice, but Swift Expeditious Retreat has a range of personal and would work.

Douglas
2009-12-28, 10:45 AM
Note that touch-range spells do not have a 'fixed' range as per Persistent Spell's requirement.
That is debatable and depends on interpretation. If you consider touch range as being counted from the caster's space, then it is variable and depends on the caster's reach. If you consider touch range as being counted from the caster's touching appendage, then it is fixed at 0 and is eligible. True, under the latter interpretation touch spells would be the only ones not counted from the caster's space. On the flip side, under the former interpretation touch spells are the only ones where the range part of a spell can be blocked by physical obstructions that don't actually block line of effect.

Personally I think the "range" of a spell should be treated as referring to the distance that has to be covered solely by the spell's own magic, and any physical assistance used to get it close enough is a separate issue.

Arakune
2009-12-28, 11:03 AM
Protection from X, if you have enough spell slots.

taltamir
2009-12-28, 03:32 PM
IIRC, you can't persist prestidigitation because it has a variable range. Nerveskitter fails this litmus as well, having a variable range not only across editions (touch in 3.0, close in 3.5) but due to its 3.5 range not being fixed. (25ft., +5 ft./2 levels.)

prestidigitation is a spell that you cast on yourself. Afterwards, for one whole hour, you may perform the various prestidigitation actions at will.
At a game where "cantrips are at will" this came to play quite often... specifically, cleaning yourself.
Fell into the sewer? prestidigitation to clean yourself... murdered a shop keeper? prestidigitation on yourself to remove blood stains (after dumping his body in the lava pool), etc...


Prestidigitations are minor tricks that novice spellcasters use for practice. Once cast, a prestidigitation spell enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour.
The description says "see text" not "variable"... it is a personal spell, always has been, it just that personal does not describe its effects properly...

kinda like how mage hand is a personal spell that give you the power to move things with your mind... you affect other things, but the spell is cast on you.

deuxhero
2009-12-28, 06:12 PM
Sounds like fun, but simply memorizing a few (they last one hour) would have about the same effect.

And a ring of the spell permanent is only 1000 gold (.5*1*2000, MIC officially prints it), plus the ring's effects, being permanent stay as long as it isn't taken into an AMF/dispelled/destroyed.