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Lysander
2009-12-28, 10:41 AM
What are some of the best monsters to play as? Any suggestions?

DownwardSpiral
2009-12-28, 11:21 AM
Humans.



....What? We're sort of monsters.


But really, the best monsters are the ones with low/no RHD and a low LA. There, I said it.

....There are some decent templates that are (usually) worth the LA. Like Dark, Mineral warrior, and maybe phrenic? But other than that.....

Mongoose87
2009-12-28, 11:24 AM
Awakened Cat, the best rogue evar.

Flickerdart
2009-12-28, 11:27 AM
Thri-kreen (2 RHD, +1 to +3 LA depending on the version) make pretty good PCs because of the 4 arms and +30 (yes, +30) to Jump. Catfolk (LA +1) have Catfolk Pounce, and are generally pretty good. Half-Fey (+2 LA template) is awesome. Mineral Warrior (+1 LA template) and Feral (+1 LA template) are neat as well. Generally, high LA is very bad and you should avoid it.

mostlyharmful
2009-12-28, 12:00 PM
there's also the 'lesser' versions of a whole slew of stuff to make their fluff available without the hideous crunch, Drow, planetouched, deep gnomes, deurgar, all sorts...

that being said I'll add the provisio that LA is a mixed bag based on what you want to shoot for aswell as what you get out of it, there's some amazing abilities for skillmonkeys and beatsticks that get into +2 or even +3 and virtually nothing for casters beyound broken rubish like White Dragonspawn... that being said there's just about nothing worth it with more than +3 LA or more than 2 RHD or some combination, it's just a terrible mechanic.

Hat-Trick
2009-12-28, 12:09 PM
Pixies are awesome, even with a +4 LA, as long as you're not going heavy melee or the party caster.

Lysander
2009-12-28, 12:10 PM
One thing that caught my eye was the Couatl. +7 level adjustment gives you a host of at-will supernatural, extraordinary, and psionic abilities, including unlimited flying, invisibility, plane shift, and ethereal jaunt. You also get to cast spells as a 9th level sorcerer, meaning that you get 9 levels of sorcerer spells for a 7 level adjustment!

Sinfire Titan
2009-12-28, 12:14 PM
One thing that caught my eye was the Couatl. +7 level adjustment gives you a host of at-will supernatural, extraordinary, and psionic abilities, including unlimited flying, invisibility, plane shift, and ethereal jaunt. You also get to cast spells as a 9th level sorcerer, meaning that you get 9 levels of sorcerer spells for a 7 level adjustment!

And 9d8 HD. Whereas I can get At Will Ethereal Jaunt with Totemist levels, unlimited flight through a race (Dragonborn or Raptorian), Plane Shift for cheap, Detect Alignment from Incarnate 1, and 16th level Sorcerer casting from a 15th level Kobold Sorcerer. Without Loredrake abuse.

AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-28, 12:17 PM
I second thri-kreen and raise you Insectoid template. An extra 4 arms? Can someone say Warblade 20/Monk 13? Can anyone say "Most Broken Flurry of Blows?"

Zeta Kai
2009-12-28, 12:19 PM
One thing that caught my eye was the Couatl. +7 level adjustment gives you a host of at-will supernatural, extraordinary, and psionic abilities, including unlimited flying, invisibility, plane shift, and ethereal jaunt. You also get to cast spells as a 9th level sorcerer, meaning that you get 9 levels of sorcerer spells for a 7 level adjustment!

That's... actually a good deal... hmm...

mabriss lethe
2009-12-28, 12:21 PM
minotaurs make OK beatsticks and that "never considered flatfooted" caveat is pretty nice.

HCL
2009-12-28, 12:23 PM
Goliath is a classic, so are tiefling and aasimar

Lysander
2009-12-28, 12:24 PM
That's... actually a good deal... hmm...

It's actually better than a sorcerer, since you can also pick your spells from the cleric spell list.

Crow
2009-12-28, 12:29 PM
Half-Minotaur is pretty good for +1 LA

deuxhero
2009-12-28, 12:37 PM
Steel Dragon (4 hd 2LA, alt form 1st level spell casting and some other goodies) Wyrm of war/crusader/Arbujent Champion/JPM isn't better than sorcer/crusader/Arbujent champion/JPM, but you have some things the human/DW kobold can't do and it's close in power.

sombrastewart
2009-12-28, 12:41 PM
My favorite is Tome of Magic's Dark Template. +1 LA and you get Su Hide in Plain Sight, +10ft movement, 10 resist cold and +8 to Hide and +6 to Move Silently. Any rogue that has the ability to take this has this option.

mabriss lethe
2009-12-28, 12:45 PM
My favorite is Tome of Magic's Dark Template. +1 LA and you get Su Hide in Plain Sight, +10ft movement, 10 resist cold and +8 to Hide and +6 to Move Silently. Any rogue that has the ability to take this has this option.

The best thing about the Dark template is that you can get it from an item. Money is much easier to get than levels in D&D, and an Umbral collar is such a good investment.

Adumbration
2009-12-28, 12:54 PM
Does anyone know any good LA +1 races? Preferably without any racial hitdice?

Flickerdart
2009-12-28, 12:56 PM
I second thri-kreen and raise you Insectoid template. An extra 4 arms? Can someone say Warblade 20/Monk 13? Can anyone say "Most Broken Flurry of Blows?"
Where's this Insectoid template from? I am intrigued and wish to learn more.

AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-28, 01:07 PM
Where's this Insectoid template from? I am intrigued and wish to learn more.

Savage Species Pgs 121 & part of 122

ericgrau
2009-12-28, 01:13 PM
In core orcs, lizardfolk, grimlocks and pixies are all excellent options. Outside of core goliaths and half-giants are great.

Ranos
2009-12-28, 01:14 PM
I like ghosts. Currently playing one, nerfed to fit in with the party's power level, and it's still pretty powerful for a +5 LA.

AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-28, 01:18 PM
I also wish to include Maug. 3LA construct? Oh yeah.....

Yuki Akuma
2009-12-28, 01:21 PM
It's actually better than a sorcerer, since you can also pick your spells from the cleric spell list.

...What happens when a coatl takes levels in sorcerer? Monsters who cast as clerics, sorcerers, psions, etc. improve their innate talents when they take the right class, but...

Would he still have access to the cleric spell list? Or be forced to stick to the sorcerer one from then on?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-12-28, 01:51 PM
One thing that caught my eye was the Couatl. +7 level adjustment gives you a host of at-will supernatural, extraordinary, and psionic abilities, including unlimited flying, invisibility, plane shift, and ethereal jaunt. You also get to cast spells as a 9th level sorcerer, meaning that you get 9 levels of sorcerer spells for a 7 level adjustment!


That's... actually a good deal... hmm...


It's actually better than a sorcerer, since you can also pick your spells from the cleric spell list.


...What happens when a coatl takes levels in sorcerer? Monsters who cast as clerics, sorcerers, psions, etc. improve their innate talents when they take the right class, but...

Would he still have access to the cleric spell list? Or be forced to stick to the sorcerer one from then on?

The nine racial hit dice are not optional, a Couatl is ECL 16 before taking any class levels. A Couatl Sorcerer 1 is only playable in a party of other level 17 characters, and it will only have 10th level spellcasting. You'd be better off going Sorcerer 7/ Rainbow Servant 10, to get 13th level spellcasting and be able to pick from the entire Cleric list. Couatl is not a good race to use for a PC, racial hit dice are not optional and do count toward your total character level.

Yuki Akuma
2009-12-28, 01:52 PM
The nine racial hit dice are not optional, a Couatl is ECL 16 before taking any class levels. A Couatl Sorcerer 1 is only playable in a party of other level 17 characters, and it will only have 10th level spellcasting. You'd be better off going Sorcerer 7/ Rainbow Servant 10, to get 13th level spellcasting and be able to pick from the entire Cleric list. Couatl is not a good race to use for a PC, racial hit dice are not optional and do count toward your total character level.

Yes I know that.

(They might not, but I do damnit.)

I just wanted to know what spells an ECL 17 Coatl Sorcerer 1 can cast! There's no need to be all bold inflation at me. :smallfrown:

rockdeworld
2009-12-28, 01:56 PM
It's actually better than a sorcerer, since you can also pick your spells from the cleric spell list.
No it's not, because you're a 16th level character casting as a 9th level sorcerer.

Edit: Ninjad.

To answer Yuki: it makes sense to say anything from its coatl HD it keeps, but once it can only choose spells from the sorcerer spell list for the levels it takes as sorcerer.

Flickerdart
2009-12-28, 02:07 PM
...What happens when a coatl takes levels in sorcerer? Monsters who cast as clerics, sorcerers, psions, etc. improve their innate talents when they take the right class, but...

Would he still have access to the cleric spell list? Or be forced to stick to the sorcerer one from then on?
You could ignore that problem by taking more Couatl HD, which are better than Sorcerer HD anyway.

Eldariel
2009-12-28, 02:09 PM
Black Ethergaunts are alright; they're pretty much ECL 20s, but they cast as pretty much an ECL 20 Wizard. They're pretty much ECL 20 Wizards in a can. A Wizard with PrCs is better, but they aren't BAD.

Other than that, Centaur is fairly good being a relatively low LA Large race that's fast and Racial HD at least grants full BAB. One of the best Hulking Hurler chassis thanks to being quadroped.

Half-Giant and Goliath are both decent. Thri-Kreen, as mentioned (especially the non-Psionic variant) is also fairly good.

Yuki Akuma
2009-12-28, 02:11 PM
You could ignore that problem by taking more Couatl HD, which are better than Sorcerer HD anyway.

You can't do that. Coatl with more HD were born that way, they can't gain more by 'levelling up'.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-12-28, 02:13 PM
Yes I know that.

(They might not, but I do damnit.)

I just wanted to know what spells an ECL 17 Coatl Sorcerer 1 can cast! There's no need to be all bold inflation at me. :smallfrown:

The bolding was for everyone quoted, you just happened to be the last one on the list.

If you take class levels to advance a racial spellcasting ability, the specifics of the racial ability will keep. True Dragons who take Sorcerer levels can pick more Cleric spells, for example. In any case, I wouldn't get more Sorcerer, I'd probably grab something like Abjurant Champion or some other +1/level spellcasting prestige class. Outsiders are proficient in all martial weapons, so even Eldritch Knight would be better than more Sorcerer.

Edit: Actually, Couatls advance by adding HD, according to their entry in the MM. It would make more sense for one to gain racial HD instead of class levels.

rockdeworld
2009-12-28, 02:14 PM
You can't do that. Coatl with more HD were born that way, they can't gain more by 'levelling up'.
Strange, I always thought monsters gained HD by growing older.

Signmaker
2009-12-28, 02:15 PM
I like ghosts. Currently playing one, nerfed to fit in with the party's power level, and it's still pretty powerful for a +5 LA.

I prefer the LA0 ghost template, even if it is saddled with far more restrictions.

Flickerdart
2009-12-28, 02:17 PM
You can't do that. Coatl with more HD were born that way, they can't gain more by 'levelling up'.
I'm pretty sure you're allowed to advance by monster HD like that.

Yuki Akuma
2009-12-28, 02:18 PM
Edit: Actually, Couatls advance by adding HD, according to their entry in the MM. It would make more sense for one to gain racial HD instead of class levels.

That means if the DM wants a more powerful one he should add HD, not class levels.

Yes, monsters get more HD by growing older. The HD values in the MM are the average values for an adult. A baby will have less.

So, an advanced couatl will just be naturally tougher than a normal one - he didn't get more XP and level up, he was born that way. An adventuring couatl has to take class levels to get stronger.

Lysander
2009-12-28, 02:19 PM
Hmm. That sucks, although you do get quite a bit besides just the spellcasting. I suppose the correct way to think of it is a flying ethereal jaunting invisible grappler that also dabbles in spells. How does the Couatl compare to other level 17 characters overall?

Yuki Akuma
2009-12-28, 02:20 PM
Hmm. That sucks, although you do get quite a bit besides just the spellcasting. I suppose the correct way to think of it is a flying ethereal jaunting invisible grappler that also dabbles in spells. How does the Couatl compare to other level 17 characters overall?

Well, it's CR 10, so... not well?

dyslexicfaser
2009-12-28, 02:23 PM
Black Ethergaunts are alright; they're pretty much ECL 20s, but they cast as pretty much an ECL 20 Wizard. They're pretty much ECL 20 Wizards in a can. A Wizard with PrCs is better, but they aren't BAD.
Also remember that for an ECL 20, they cast as 17th level wizards and have +20 racial int modifer. That bit's important. Not to mention at least +5 to every other stat, and some good abiltiies. Like immunity to bad spells 6th or lower.

They are to high-level ECLs what the Feral, Dark and Mineral Warrior are to low levels.

Swordwraith (+3 LA) is also pretty cool. It's kinda like the Fighter's ghost.

Gorgondantess
2009-12-28, 02:26 PM
Yeah, my biggest beef with the whole LA thing is it's woefully underpowered for a PC race, and they throw it right in your face. As a PC, CR=class levels, and yet you can be playing with a bunch of 15th level characters- i.e. 15 CR characters- as a 15 ECL monster, which is only CR 9. So, yeah, you're effectively 6 levels below all the other party members. Sure, some creatures are over/under CR'd, but wouldn't it just make sense to say 'yeah, this is a CR 15 monster, so you can play as it with all of its HD with a group of level 15 characters." So you might be overpowered or underpowered compared to the other characters- why is this a problem? If you play a batman wizard you'll be overpowered compared to the other characters.
Seriously...:smallannoyed:

dyslexicfaser
2009-12-28, 02:31 PM
Doesn't CR equate to take on a group of four PCs of that level?

sonofzeal
2009-12-28, 02:33 PM
Core LA Races
Pixie
Centaur
Ghost
Minotaur
Lizardfolk
....that's about it.


Non-Core LA Races (off the top of my head; there's tones more)
Marrulurk
Maug
Catfolk
Anthropomorphic XYZ
Black Ethergaunt
Half-Giant


Templates
Dark
Shadow
Lolth-Touched
Mineral Warrior
Phrenic
Half-Fey
Tauric
Warbeast (for animals)
Magebred (for animals)

sonofzeal
2009-12-28, 02:36 PM
Doesn't CR equate to take on a group of four PCs of that level?
Only if "take on" means "lose to". Something of equal CR to the party ECL should take them a bit of effort to beat, but shouldn't be a real threat. Something of CR+2 or more might actually be evenly matched with the party.

ericgrau
2009-12-28, 02:41 PM
Or CR+4. CR+2, while threatening to kill a PC, is unlikely to result in a TPK. This is a fairly fuzzy scale though.

Yuki Akuma
2009-12-28, 02:44 PM
But still, while a Couatl's abilities are far too powerful for a 10th-level character - ninth-level spellcasting from both sorcerer and cleric spell lists, crazy ability adjustments and spell-like abilities - ECL 16 is a bit much.

He might be useful in a dungeon but as soon as some level-appropriate critters attack them he'd better fly to safety or get slaughtered.

sonofzeal
2009-12-28, 02:57 PM
Or CR+4. CR+2, while threatening to kill a PC, is unlikely to result in a TPK. This is a fairly fuzzy scale though.
Indeed. It's been my experience, though, that a lot of CR+4 creatures just result in total slaughter, even against larger or more optimized parties.

I have a DM friend who wanted a "challenging" encounter for a party of eight PCs. They were individual ECL 8, but since there were twice as many of them she was working off the CR 10 list as a baseline, and was looking at a CR 12 Kolyarut for the "challenging" encounter. That sounded reasonable until I pointed out that there were, perhaps, two members of the party who could do anything to it, and even those two were pretty much consigned to "grease" and "magic missile". Granted they were a pretty unoptimized bunch, but they'd been slaughtering CR/EL 10 encounters by sheer weight of numbers and action economy. Still, for normal characters there's a brick wall you generally run into at a certain point, where you lose the ability to meaningfully affect the encounter.

A cleverly-played and well-chosen CR+2 is usually enough to put the party in serious danger of defeat. A CR+4 is going to have the potential to be unbeatable for them, depending on the team. As a general rule I almost never throw anything higher than CR+2 at my PCs unless there's specific extenuating circumstances.

That's just me though.

Yuki Akuma
2009-12-28, 03:00 PM
For large parties you really should be throwing CR-appropriate monsters at them. Just more of them, increasing the EL but not the strength of the individual monsters.

hiryuu
2009-12-28, 03:09 PM
Doesn't CR equate to take on a group of four PCs of that level?

No, it means "get trounced by" four PCs of that level. Remember, a level 10 human fighter is CR 10.

Yuki Akuma
2009-12-28, 03:11 PM
No, it means "get trounced by" four PCs of that level. Remember, a level 10 human fighter is CR 10.

So is a level 10 human wizard.

Sinfire Titan
2009-12-28, 03:21 PM
Only if "take on" means "lose to". Something of equal CR to the party ECL should take them a bit of effort to beat, but shouldn't be a real threat. Something of CR+2 or more might actually be evenly matched with the party.

Actually, it means that the monster has a chance of absorbing 25% of the party's daily resources (spell slots, /day class features). Individual monsters, however, will not require that much.

If it's a party of 3, 2-5 enemies who's CR is within 2-4 levels of the party's ECL (accounting for optimization and tactical advantages such as surprise rounds and terrain) should be roughly equal. I found that a CR 7 encounter against 3 ECL 3's (optimized) was a fair fight (using 2 or more creatures for that CR 7).

Larger parties need more monsters. Solo players should be able to take on solo enemies fairly easily, but will die horribly to multiple unless the player knows how to abuse the action economy and gets a little lucky.

Tahlathali
2009-12-28, 03:41 PM
going back to the insectile Thri-Kreen, I once made an encounter (pcs never got to him as I ended up having to move before campaign finished to another state) but he was a lancer...... with a severely oversized spear, leap attack and all the other charging power attack multiplying goodies and he just had all 8 hands on the one spear, further amplifying his strength modifier to damage and the power attack damage. I think minimum with his leap into battle he would have done about 170 damage.

sonofzeal
2009-12-28, 03:49 PM
Actually, it means that the monster has a chance of absorbing 25% of the party's daily resources (spell slots, /day class features). Individual monsters, however, will not require that much.
Well, in theory. But "25% of the party's daily resources" is usually a pretty fuzzy concept and doesn't tend to translate well into actual play, in my experience. I tried to cover that under "take them a bit of effort to beat". IMO, what defines a good CR+0 encounter is that it loses, doesn't do too much serious damage, but felt like it was a viable threat. Actual expenditure of resources will depend highly on who was fighting it and how their daily resources (if any) are organized, and is, imo at least, a poor metric in practice

taltamir
2009-12-28, 03:55 PM
raptoran: +0 ECL creature that can fly non magically. also has a special extra powerful racial use only bow... that is used with their legs (leaving their hands free to do other things).

lesser aesimar: +0 ECL creature, gives +2 wis and +2 cha... perfect for anything with divine casting.

Human: +0 ECL creature, favored class: any, gives 1 free feat, and 1 extra skillpoint per level (4 on level 1). in pathfinder, also gives +2 to attribute of your choice

Yuki Akuma
2009-12-28, 03:56 PM
raptoran: +0 ECL creature that can fly non magically. also has a spell extra powerful racial use only bow... that is used with their legs (leaving their hands free to do other things).

No, it requires them to use both arms to draw it as well. They hold it with both feet and draw it with both hands.

Sure, they can carry it and keep their hands free...

taltamir
2009-12-28, 04:29 PM
No, it requires them to use both arms to draw it as well. They hold it with both feet and draw it with both hands.

Sure, they can carry it and keep their hands free...

exactly... you can spend a round doing something with your hands (such as drinking a potion, casting a spell, etc) without having to drop the bow and later pick it up.

having to use their arms to draw it doesn't matter... if you are actually firing it you are already using your actions... so it doesn't matter if it requires your arms or not, you use your actions and your turn is over

Ranos
2009-12-28, 07:44 PM
I prefer the LA0 ghost template, even if it is saddled with far more restrictions.
First time I hear about that one. Where can I find it ?

Gnaeus
2009-12-28, 08:09 PM
+1 for Marrulurk

ECL+1 with 3 racial hit dice,
+2d6 sneak attack
great stat bonuses.
Racial bonuses to rogue skills, including senses almost as good as blindsense
crummy breath weapon
2 Bonus feats (rapid and Precise shot)
some minor immunities
poison use and assassination

Great for rogues, especially archer rogues.

Volthawk
2009-12-29, 05:18 AM
I like Stone Giants:

+16 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +8 Constitution, +2 Wisdom.
Large Size
10ft Reach
40 base land speed
Darkvision and low-light vision
14d8 hit dice
+10 BAB
Saves of: Fort+9, Ref+4,Will+4
17 × (2 + Int modifier) skill points for Hide,Climb,Listen and Spot.
+8 Hide in rocky terrain
5 feats
11 Natural Armour
Rock Throwing and Catching
Automatic Languages: Giant. Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc.
LA +4

sonofzeal
2009-12-29, 05:38 AM
I like Stone Giants:

+16 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +8 Constitution, +2 Wisdom.
Large Size
10ft Reach
40 base land speed
Darkvision and low-light vision
14d8 hit dice
+10 BAB
Saves of: Fort+9, Ref+4,Will+4
17 × (2 + Int modifier) skill points for Hide,Climb,Listen and Spot.
+8 Hide in rocky terrain
5 feats
11 Natural Armour
Rock Throwing and Catching
Automatic Languages: Giant. Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc.
LA +4

For ECL 18, though? That's tough.

Tokiko Mima
2009-12-29, 05:40 AM
Someone already mentioned Pixies, but I want to add my 10¢. +4 LA is very difficult to make work, as being 4 levels behind is a killer to almost any character. That being said, Pixies make for fantastically survivable and deliciously lethal warlocks.

They get huge bonuses to Dexterity and Charisma (the only stats most warlocks care about) as well as a few others, and while they take a penalty to Strength, their Weapon Finesse racial feat means they never need to use that ability score for anything Warlock related except encumbrance. They're Small size, not Tiny, so they benefit from reach when using Eldritch Glaive. They start out at ECL 5 with two things Warlocks don't achieve until much later: Flight and greater invisibility at will. They also come loaded with a bunch of 1/day spell-likes that round out the 'gleeful trickster assassin' role. Much fun can be had with permanent illusion 1/day all by itself.

Think of a pixie warlock as the Predator, only it sees better that you, flies twice as fast as you can run, never melees if you have a chance at hitting back, and oh, it's a foot and a half tall. Pixie and Warlock just have a beautiful synergy. :smallamused:

SethFahad
2009-12-29, 05:46 AM
hmmm... Half-Fey Tiefling....

Volthawk
2009-12-29, 05:48 AM
For ECL 18, though? That's tough.

Yeah, I just re-read that section in the SRD. I didn't realise the Hit Dice added on to the ECL as well. Ouch.

sonofzeal
2009-12-29, 05:51 AM
Yeah, I just re-read that section in the SRD. I didn't realise the Hit Dice added on to the ECL as well. Ouch.
Erm, yeah. To be fair, my first ever character was a Satyr Bard1 in an ECL 3 game, so I'm guilty of that myself.

Would be pretty sweet otherwise, no? :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Volthawk
2009-12-29, 05:54 AM
I was actually thinking there had to be a catch somewhere, I mean up to 112 extra HP for a level 5 was a bit too much, I think.

paddyfool
2009-12-29, 05:55 AM
Was it nymphs or sylphs that get caster levels at least equal to their ECL?

JaronK
2009-12-29, 07:13 AM
Lernean (variant of Multiheaded in Savage Species) Lumi. 4HD, 6LA, and you're completely invincible to method of being harmed except disintegrate. You're also immune to any light based spells, so as a tank the party mages can drop Glitterdust on you without problems. Though the HD and LA are steep, that's nothing compared to near complete invincibility, and the 4 HD are at least outsider HD (so all good saves, 8 skill points, and full BAB). You also get the equivalent of perfect two weapon fighting, with the bonus that both hands count as mainhand (which is awesome with Power Attack). It's perfect for a charger character or a crit monkey (or both).

Feral (Savage Species) is an incredible template for +1LA, granting great melee stat boosts, pounce, fast healing, and a variety of other goodies. Some interpretation is required as to whether the HD the template talks about is racial HD only or whether it includes class levels.

Half Minotaur is awesome as well at +1LA, as it explicitly gives you the stat bonuses for changing size (and it makes you large if you were medium). Being large is already awesome for melees, and the overall stat boosts of the half minotaur are the largest you can get for a single LA (IIRC it's something like +12 strength with a solid con boost).

Mineral Warrior is of course nice for +1LA due to the incredible con boost and solid DR (at least at low levels). Burrow speeds are always fun too, but you need to find someone who can cast Mineralize Warrior, which makes it tricky.

And there's also Lolth Touched, another +1LA that this time gives +6Str and Con. Not bad. Makes you evil though, so not appropriate for all games.

White Dragonspawn is also +1LA but gives a complete level of Sorcerer casting to make up for it, along with impressive natural armor. You must serve a White Dragon though, so it's really only appropriate for Kobolds who'd consider it an honor anyway.

As a final template, don't forget Dragonborn. No LA at all, but it removes a lot of things from the base race. It gives a Con bonus though and has a few nice abilites of its own added in. It's great with races that give good stats but few special abilities, especially ones that have penalties (Water Orc comes to mind, as Dragonborn strips the light vulnerability).

For base races, Water Orc is a great melee race with +4 Str, +2 Con, and -2 to mental stats. You also get a swim speed. As above, it combos great with Dragonborn, or for awesome power it's great with Half Minotaur for awesome strength.

Desert Kobolds are of course the best Sorcerers out there. Don't forget the Dragonwrought feat... it makes you count as a dragon and more importantly explicitly removes penalties for aging, so a Venerable Dragonwrought Desert Kobold has +3 Int and Cha with +1 Wis and no con penalty (you have a noticable Str penalty but a Dex bonus). All that for no LA... nice. Dragonborn again combos well here, stripping off light vulnerability and boosting con. White Dragonspawn is also nice here for the Sorcerer boost. Also, Kobolds can use the Greater Draconic Rite, which costs you 1 feat, 1100gp, and 4hp permanently for +1 Sorcerer level and a 3/day first level sorcerer spell like ability (I recommend Identify, for the cost savings). Technically, a Dragonwrought Kobold is a True Dragon, since the definition of True Dragon is any creature of the Dragon type that gets more powerful due to aging and has age catagories. Races of the Dragon states that Kobolds use the standard dragon age catagories, and a Dragonwrought Kobold definitely gets stronger by aging (a total of +3 to mental stats by the time he's venerable). This matters because being a True Dragon lets you be a Loredrake (Dragons of Eberron), which gives you +2 levels of Sorcerer casting at no cost (other than not being able to take any other Sovereign Archtypes). End result? You can cast 3-4 levels above your actual Sorcerer level. That's power baby. Other Sovereign Archtypes do other stuff like adding all Cleric spells plus some domain spells to your spell list (great with a Kobold Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, or Warmage). What's not to love?

And of course there's always Humans. Hey, a bonus feat is pretty nice.

JaronK

ex cathedra
2009-12-29, 07:25 AM
White Dragonspawn, Feral, and Lolth-Touched are probably the three best LA+1 templates.

For races, Greensnake Naga [OA] is my favorite RHD0 LA+1.
I mean, look at it. +2 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis. Telepathy (with world-spanning range), Natural poison, and the females can pretend to be human. RHD0, LA+1.

Seriously.

Edit: Ninja'd on the templates, but I think I'm the first to mention this race, at least.

Curmudgeon
2009-12-29, 07:34 AM
My favorite is Tome of Magic's Dark Template. +1 LA and you get Su Hide in Plain Sight, +10ft movement, 10 resist cold and +8 to Hide and +6 to Move Silently.
Better check page 161 of Tome of Magic:
Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): Use the Hide skill even while being observed (except in natural daylight, the area of a daylight spell, or a similar effect).
It's Extraordinary, not Supernatural like the Assassin/Shadowdancer ability. You still need cover/concealment to be able to make a Hide check. With the additional lighting condition restrictions, this is the weakest of all forms of Hide in Plain Sight.

sonofzeal
2009-12-29, 07:47 AM
For races, Greensnake Naga [OA] is my favorite RHD0 LA+1.
I mean, look at it. +2 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis. Telepathy (with world-spanning range), Natural poison, and the females can pretend to be human. RHD0, LA+1.

Seriously.
Hmmmm....

According to the official update (DR318), their stats are merely +2 Str, +4 Dex. Also, it's unclear if the Telepathy is world-spanning or 30 feet (fluff says one thing, crunch another). Still a decent race though.

Which reminds me: Poison Dusk Lizardfolk are quite solid, with +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha, +3 NA, small size, no speed reduction, chameleon skin, pretty nice racial skill bonuses, and three natural attacks. Wouldn't be worth it for LA +2 likely, but a really solid LA +1, especially for Rogues.

Cyanic
2009-12-29, 09:08 AM
Tossing another vote to Feral, the most dakka I have ever seen in one template for +1.

ex cathedra
2009-12-29, 09:51 AM
Hmmmm....

According to the official update (DR318), their stats are merely +2 Str, +4 Dex. Also, it's unclear if the Telepathy is world-spanning or 30 feet (fluff says one thing, crunch another). Still a decent race though.

While it's a reasonable change, I've never played in a game that allowed dragon magazine material. As such, I don't often see things like that change accounted for. And, yes, the telepathy is a bit odd.

sonofzeal
2009-12-29, 10:06 AM
While it's a reasonable change, I've never played in a game that allowed dragon magazine material. As such, I don't often see things like that change accounted for. And, yes, the telepathy is a bit odd.
Indeed. However, I believe you require the update for it to actually be legally playable, since the original doesn't list an LA, and the LA can only be reasonably applied to the updated version. If the LA is listed anywhere else, in context of the original, disregard this.

ex cathedra
2009-12-29, 10:25 AM
Indeed. However, I believe you require the update for it to actually be legally playable, since the original doesn't list an LA, and the LA can only be reasonably applied to the updated version. If the LA is listed anywhere else, in context of the original, disregard this.

Oriental Adventures, page 203, table 10-3. 'Monsters as Races'