Decisive Strike!

[AtwasAwamps]

THIS IS NOT A PURE OPTIMIZATION THREAD. I know there are many better ways to achieve a “battlefield control melee combatant”, but I’m wondering if I’m on the right track with an idea I had that might be fun to mess around with fluff-wise and crunch-wise.

I know monks are generally awful and that taking a level in monk has the generally awful in comparison to taking levels in something else, but I want to play around with an idea I had. The fluff for the character is fairly simple and I can provide it if people care, but the basics of the build would be something like this:

Race: Human

Level 1: Monk
ACF: Decisive Strike
Levels 2-3: Fighter
Levels 4-5: Psychic Warrior
Levels 6-15: Warmind
16-20: No idea (probably a psionic class for increased power points or back to fighter?)


I don’t have all my books with me at the moment, but what I’m going for is, in fact, a pole-master “monk”. I would like to use the combination of decisive strike + reach weapon + stand still to create ludicrously high reflex DCs to use to control the space around me. Augmented with psionic powers, especially Expansion, this character should be able to have some fun controlling the battle space around him with an extended reach and high DCs for his Stand Still feat.

Obvious Feats to Take:

Weapon Focus (some polearm) -> Pole Master – Will allow me to use Decisive Strike with a polearm.

Combat Expertise – More AoOs = more effective build

Power Attack – If you have a two handed weapon, you should pretty much have this feat…

Able Learner: I’ll be gaining four bonus feats from this build and I won’t have a ton of skill points. Considering I will need to invest a nice chunk of points into Knowledge: Psionics, I figure picking up this feat will give me all the skill versatility I could want.

Possible Feats to Take:

Psionic Weapon to Deep Impact – Touch Attacks are always good and this character won’t necessarily have the high BAB of a pure martial character. Psionic weapon is kind of a waste, though…

Two Weapon Fighting: This could, I believe, allow me to use my unarmed strikes from my monk level as an additional weapon in combat, giving me a way to strike opponents who slip past my reach weapon.

Robilar’s Gambit/Karmic Strike – Would these be useful? Both are great feats and are good ways of forcing AoO’s and thus expanding the benefit of my Decisive Striking, but wouldn’t I basically be utilizing only on enemies that had reach or enemies that are stepping through my unarmed strike range (which won’t allow for a ton of damage?). Not really sure if they are worth it for what I’m trying to do…

Short Haft – If I took two-weapon fighting, using this would allow me to go through a full attack routine, striking with my pole-arm and throwing in an additional unarmed attack. Might be fun to play with using Psionic Lion’s Pounce (or charge…I don’t recall the power’s full name).

Questions I have:

How does the Warmind’s sweeping strike work with reach? I’m not sure I understand…does it just not work, since targets I threaten will almost never be adjacent to one another? Or will it only work when I have expansion up and my threatening range is that much longer/expanded?

What would be a good polearm to choose? A part of me wants to go for a Greatspear, losing another feat for the exotic weapon proficiency, just because the idea amuses me. I’d like to avoid tripping, even though it’s a great way to expand this build, because in our current games we tend to have one tripper per party and I’d like to stay away from that option (especially since the game I would play this character in DOES have a tripper in it already, just…not really a good one, so I’d be there to provide additional support).

Decisive Strike doubles ALL damage done by an attack, correct? So if I were to use the Warmind’s Chain of Overwhelming Force (admittedly not an amazing capstone), that damage would be doubled, as would Psionic Weapon’s? This is more a curiosity factor, as it would be kind of fun to mess with.

What are ideal 2nd/3rd/4th/5th level powers to choose with this build? I have plenty of room with 1st level powers, but after that, things get messy. Should I grab expanded knowledge for some MUST HAVES?

Anyways, this was just a fun idea I wanted to mess around with, but I’m not sure it would work like I think it would. I’m hoping people can answer a few of my questions and make a few suggestions for the build. Thanks a bunch and I’m sorry if anything is vague, I’ll be happy to explain anything in further detail.

[The Glyphstone]

Monk isn't universally a horrible class, even we agree. It does have a couple redeeming points, but the key to not crippling yourself is to take as few Monk levels as possible and get out once you have what you need, which you did. Myself, I love this sort of build...though that may be because the first one I did was a monster campaign, and I was a 7-headed Hydra...OH GOD THE AOOS.:smallwink:


If you have the feat slots, Gambit and Karmic Strike are definitely good picks. With a Decisive Strike build, every way to get another AoO you can is a good one.

[Yuki Akuma]

I'd go with PsyWar for your last five levels, rather than Fighter. They have useful buff powers and more power points are never a bad thing.

Consider taking Practiced Manifester.

[AtwasAwamps]

Glyph, you just confused the hell out of me, as apparently you managed to edit your post as I was hitting the "quote" button to explain that heavy AoOs were exactly my plan...

I stared at the quote for like a minute going "Wait...waait what? Wait..."

Ahem, anyways, understood about RG/Karmic Strike...again, I'm just wondering if using Expansion + Reach weapon makes it too difficult to land those hits with the enlarged polearm and if striking them with my unarmed attacks (whatever 1d6 ends up as with large size, which I think is just 1d8) is worthwhile.

[Yuki Akuma]

He's done it three times since I first saw the thread.

Glyph, are you channeling my posting style or something?

[AtwasAwamps]

I think he just re-read my post, is all.


I'd go with PsyWar for your last five levels, rather than Fighter. They have useful buff powers and more power points are never a bad thing.

Consider taking Practiced Manifester.

The only reason I would not go back to PsyWar is that this build finishes out Warmind progression, and Warmind a better progression of PsyWar powers than the PsyWar does. Dipping back into PsyWar would mean picking up powers at levels I had already passed.

Forgive me, what does Practiced Manifester do?

[Yuki Akuma]

The thing with powers is that lower-level ones aren't automatucally superfluous once you have higher ones. So really it doesn't matter if you're getting some more 4th-level powers once you already have 6th-level ones.

Practiced Manifester adds up to four non-psionic class levels to your manifester level. In your case, you'd get three manifester levels added on for power durations and augmentation caps.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, I'm sorry. I posted, read the post in more detail, and realized you were already doing exactly what I was going to recommend.:smalleek:

[AtwasAwamps]

Practiced Manifester sounds wonderful.

I just realized that while Warmind has a fast progression, it doesn't have a lot of powers. So while dipping back into PsyWar would give me extra 1st level powers, it would also net me more 2nd level powers and one more third level power. Wow, Warmind's have a way more limited selection than I thought...

Edited OP with question regarding powers

[The Glyphstone]

Frankly, Warmind's class features aren't really that good, particularly in a build that relies on Reach and Decisive Strike as you noted. Since all of its granted bonuses are Insight-typed and 1/day, they're not that much better than manifesting the corresponding powers, with the sole exception of the +2 Str/Con that eventually improves to +4. It's really generally used in combination with Slayer to add a handful of beneficial self-buff powers to a completely non-psionic build, but since you're already including PsyWar, most of what it offers is nullified. You'd probably be better off going with ten levels of Slayer instead of Warmind if you're willing to, considering all the nice goodies Slayer gets you and the fact that it advances manifester progression 9/10.

Monk 1/Fighter 2/Psychic Warrior 2/Slayer 10/Psychic Warrior +5 with Practiced Manifester nets you ML20th at the end, and the power access/PP of a 16th level PsyWar. You get Decisive Strike, a couple of nice bonus fighter feats (5 total), and eventually selective (Ex) Mind Blank, plus you get to pick one type of psionic creature and kick the unholy tar out of it in the offchance you run into one.

[Sinfire Titan]

I'd actually use Ardent over PsiWar unless you seriously need the feats (or even dipping Ardent instead of the last few levels of Fighter for more bonus PP). Practiced Manifester+other ML boosting abilities/items means you get access to powers above what PsiWar would give you.

[ZeroNumerous]

I'd actually use Ardent over PsiWar unless you seriously need the feats (or even dipping Ardent instead of the last few levels of Fighter for more bonus PP).

What about combining the two?

Monk 1/Ardent 1/Psy Warrior 3/Warmind 10/Slayer(Ardent) +5.

Maintains full BAB for 15 levels to make up for PsyWar/Monk, gives 5th level Ardent or 9th level as a Practiced Manifester plus Warmind powers.