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View Full Version : Character creation (3.5): point buy AND rolling!



JonestheSpy
2009-12-28, 07:50 PM
Saw the PB vs. rolling thread and thought I'd bring this up. I was starting a new campaign a couple of months ago (currently on hold for the holidaze), and one of my players and I were discussing the merits of various character generation systems. After some back and forth, we decided the best way is to combine the two, so as to allow some control of character concept but still allow the random factors.

Players chose three stats to buy for, and the other three were rolled randomly, in order, no switching around (best 3 out of 4D6). Was definitely a lot of fun, and resulted in a couple of particularly odd arrangements - a Fighter with a CHA of 5, which he has a lot of fun roleplaying as his main role is to be a bodyguard, and an aasimar Wilder with a strength of 18. We decided the wilder's strength was a quirky result of her celestial heritage - she looks like a lithe but in-shape 18 year old girl, and occasionally will casually bash down a door or hoist a boulder over her head.

Lots of fun. Definitely the way I'll go from now on.

taltamir
2009-12-28, 07:54 PM
actually, that sounds like a really really cool idea...
roll your dump stats and you can have some hilarious combinations.

Draz74
2009-12-28, 08:02 PM
How many points is a good amount for the three scores they're buying? Just half of what you would usually use for point-buy? (7 to 16?)

Another way I've seen this done is "buy all six stats with point-buy, then, for each ability score, roll 3d6 and, if the rolled result is higher than the score you bought, replace it."

Unfortunately this can't lead to a score of less than 8 still; and worse, tends to reward players for choosing a SAD casting class and buying an 18 in their casting stat.

JonestheSpy
2009-12-28, 08:26 PM
How many points is a good amount for the three scores they're buying? Just half of what you would usually use for point-buy? (7 to 16?)


It was something like that - can't remember the exact number, but definitely not so high that anyone could max out a stat without compromising the other two. No one started off with a bought stat higher than 16.

UserClone
2009-12-28, 10:08 PM
What you can do is have your players roll randomly, and then take a look at what they've rolled. Fin the player with the highest scores, work out the point-buy of that set of scores, and allow your other players the difference in points from what their own scores would come out to in point buy. So it's random-ish, but fair, too.

SethFahad
2009-12-29, 04:55 AM
Roll 4d6, keep best 3. Count the points, then point buy.

f.e.: 16,12,15,11,9,13 equals 31 points. Use them appropriately. :smallwink:

Grumman
2009-12-29, 05:01 AM
Roll 4d6, keep best 3. Count the points, then point buy.

f.e.: 16,12,15,11,9,13 equals 31 points. Use them appropriately. :smallwink:
That seems like the worst of both worlds. People so inclined will still put their 18 into the casting stat and damn everything else, but you also keep the random differences in the strength of each player's stat array.

SethFahad
2009-12-29, 05:10 AM
That seems like the worst of both worlds. People so inclined will still put their 18 into the casting stat and damn everything else, but you also keep the random differences in the strength of each player's stat array.

If you put an 18 with 31 points, that leaves you with an average of 10-11 for the remaining stats. That is a bad choice... Do you think that having one high stat is making your player good? I think not...
A character like this is going to the grave...

Serenity
2009-12-29, 05:12 AM
For the game I'm running at college, I had my players roll, and then told them they could have their pick of what they rolled or a 32 point buy.

Grumman
2009-12-29, 05:22 AM
If you put an 18 with 31 points, that leaves you with an average of 10-11 for the remaining stats. That is a bad choice... Do you think that having one high stat is making your player good? I think not...
A character like this is going to the grave...
Can you tell me one thing your idea does better than at least one of the two alternatives?

SethFahad
2009-12-29, 05:29 AM
Listen mate, the title to this thread is "Character creation (3.5): point buy AND rolling!"

So, thats my proposal. Roll for points rather for abilities and then point-buy the stats.

A character with one high stat, and average to bad remaining stats is not a PC. Is an NPC Commoner with "Expert" npc class...

Again, that is my proposal for this thread. I'm not posting in "point buy VS rolling".

Fortuna
2009-12-29, 05:40 AM
I use a system which has stood me in good stead. It is something of a mixture of the two.

Each player receives a certain number of points, about 8-13. They may then allocate these points to their stats. For no points, roll 3d6. For 1, roll 2d6+6. For two, roll 1d6+12. And for 3, roll 1d3+15. It works well for us, particularly with the addition that you are allowed to save points up and then boost your stats on a one-for-one basis. I've run the numbers on the average modifier for a stat with each number of points - they go 0, 1.25, 2.5, 3.3 recurring.

PhoenixRivers
2009-12-29, 05:45 AM
If you put an 18 with 31 points, that leaves you with an average of 10-11 for the remaining stats. That is a bad choice... Do you think that having one high stat is making your player good? I think not...
A character like this is going to the grave...

31 PB?

Str 8, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 8

Such a character is quite survivable, as a wizard.

Str 13, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 18, Cha 8

This one's solid for a cleric. Or Druid.

Roc Ness
2009-12-29, 06:12 AM
I use a system which has stood me in good stead. It is something of a mixture of the two.

Each player receives a certain number of points, about 8-13. They may then allocate these points to their stats. For no points, roll 3d6. For 1, roll 2d6+6. For two, roll 1d6+12. And for 3, roll 1d3+15. It works well for us, particularly with the addition that you are allowed to save points up and then boost your stats on a one-for-one basis. I've run the numbers on the average modifier for a stat with each number of points - they go 0, 1.25, 2.5, 3.3 recurring.

That seems like a good idea, except the 3 pointer roll seems quite a bit too high.

DonEsteban
2009-12-29, 07:26 AM
I once suggested a system that goes like this:

Part I
- Roll 3d6 six times
- Assign results to stats
Part II
- Change two scores (raise or lower) until PB 32 is reached.

You can of course combine any rolling method for Part I with any PB value in part II. This way any character concept should usually be playable, but you can still have very low or uneven stats. I'm not sure how it competes to the other systems suggested here.

Draz74
2009-12-29, 01:22 PM
It was something like that - can't remember the exact number, but definitely not so high that anyone could max out a stat without compromising the other two. No one started off with a bought stat higher than 16.

Interesting. I may have to try out your method.

16 Points seems like it would be about right for 3 ability scores. You could end up with the following scores with 16 points:

18, 8, 8
16, 12, 10
14, 14, 12

Hmmm, posting that, I'm realizing something. Min-maxers would likely make two "dump" stats their point-bought ones, and roll for their medium-importance stats. (E.g. "I'm a wizard with 18 INT, 8 CHA, 8 STR, and I'll take my chances with the dice for CON, DEX, and WIS.") Was that the intent of this method?

JonestheSpy
2009-12-29, 04:02 PM
Interesting. I may have to try out your method.

16 Points seems like it would be about right for 3 ability scores. You could end up with the following scores with 16 points:

18, 8, 8
16, 12, 10
14, 14, 12

Hmmm, posting that, I'm realizing something. Min-maxers would likely make two "dump" stats their point-bought ones, and roll for their medium-importance stats. (E.g. "I'm a wizard with 18 INT, 8 CHA, 8 STR, and I'll take my chances with the dice for CON, DEX, and WIS.") Was that the intent of this method?

Looking at your numbers, our game must have been a bit higher - enough to get somewhere around 16,14,12. Not playing with any minmaxers, no one used the point buy for dump stats, just the ones they wanted to be sure to get something decent (I run games where magic items are much rarer than standard, so characters are a bit more buff to make up for it).

randomhero00
2009-12-29, 04:16 PM
How about, base stat of 8s, then roll 1d6 for each stat resulting in a stat between 9-14, then do a point buy. Not sure on the number though, probably like 14 pb. Or a base of 6s with a slightly higher pb. Personally I've never seen much of a problem with higher stats, so long as they don't have multiple 18s or something anyway. In the games I play we either die...or we survive. It's rarely much of a close call except at very low levels which I've never particularly enjoyed playing (and doesn't take long to get through anyway). So having higher stats isn't much of a difficulty factor IMO, its just less of a headache.

Draz74
2009-12-29, 05:01 PM
Looking at your numbers, our game must have been a bit higher - enough to get somewhere around 16,14,12. Not playing with any minmaxers, no one used the point buy for dump stats, just the ones they wanted to be sure to get something decent (I run games where magic items are much rarer than standard, so characters are a bit more buff to make up for it).

Hmmm, ok, so you probably were doing 20-point buy. So, now the min-maxing player says "I'll take 17 WIS, 14 CON, and 9 DEX. And I'll take my chances with the dice for STR, INT, and CHA. And play a Druid."

That's great if your players don't think that way ... but if I'm going to adopt something like this as the stat-generation method in my system, I'll need to consider those possibilities.

I'm thinking of adopting something like the following:

Assign your character a 16, a 14, a 12, and an 8 to any four scores you choose. Then generate the other two scores by rolling 4d6b3 in order.

Alternatively, if that still leaves too big a gap between different characters within the same party (when one rolls a 4 and a 7, while the other rolls an 18 and a 13), you could roll only once, and have the result of the roll determine both of the "random" scores. E.g.:

"I assigned my character all his scores except STR and CHA. Now I'll roll 4d6b3 and assign the result to STR, then look up what my CHA will be on this table. Rolled a 3 for STR? OK, then I get an 18 in CHA. Rolled a 12 for STR? OK, CHA is an 11."