PDA

View Full Version : what do you lose by becoming a dragonborn?



Mystic Muse
2009-12-29, 12:02 AM
I'm just wondering. If a character of mine became a dragonborn what from their previous race would they lose? For example, If I was a Dark elf but later became a draognborn would I lose certain racial things like light blindness and immunity to sleep and paralysis?

deuxhero
2009-12-29, 12:27 AM
Fun fact, if you are a hellborn your soul is basicly a fiends plaything and has various issues (no res) with it, but if you become a dragon born you lose that ability.

Eldariel
2009-12-29, 12:27 AM
You basically lose the whole "abilities"-list. Then 2 points of Dex. So Drow would lose their spell-likes, light blindness, darkvision, spell resistance, etc. Generally, Level Adjusted races suffer of being Dragonborn since all their ultracool abilities they have the level adjustment for in the first place disappear.

LA +0 races can range from "neutral" (Mongrelfolk, Elf, Gnome, etc.) to "boosted" (Orcs of all kinds, some Goblinoids, etc.) to "curbstompnerfed" (Humans, Strongheart Halflings, Dwarves, etc.) depending on how many, and how big a part of the class their racial abilities are.

Nate the Snake
2009-12-29, 12:28 AM
You keep your racial ability modifiers, racial subtype, movement modes, and level adjustment. You lose everything else.

So yes, your dark elf would lose light blindness and immunity to sleep.

EDIT: Ninja'ed.

Draz74
2009-12-29, 12:29 AM
There are a couple exceptions that aren't lost, though, like movement modes. Making e.g. Raptoran Dragonborn popular in CharOp.

Mystic Muse
2009-12-29, 12:29 AM
I thought you could only become a dragonborn if you were humanoid and that's why Tieflings/Aasimars don't work for the class? Or am I making that up?

EDIT: I'm making that up. the only requirements seem to be non evil and an intelligence score of greater than 3.

Nate the Snake
2009-12-29, 12:37 AM
There are a couple exceptions that aren't lost, though, like movement modes. Making e.g. Raptoran Dragonborn popular in CharOp.

Isn't the raptoran's flight listed as an (Ex) ability instead of a movement mode? I read somewhere that dragonborn raptorans lose flight. It seems to me like a RAW vs. RAI argument, but it's still worth clarifying.

deuxhero
2009-12-29, 12:38 AM
Hmm, can dragonborn be applied to your familiar/psycrystal? Animal Companion requires animal, and I think Paladin mounts have the same issue, but familar doesn't have an issue with it.

Draz74
2009-12-29, 12:40 AM
Isn't the raptoran's flight listed as an (Ex) ability instead of a movement mode?

Are those two things mutually exclusive? I would think if the text uses the words "fly speed" it counts as a movement mode, regardless of whether it has an [Ex] or a [Su] or anything else in front of it.

Narmy
2009-12-29, 12:49 AM
I thought you could only become a dragonborn if you were humanoid and that's why Tieflings/Aasimars don't work for the class? Or am I making that up?

EDIT: I'm making that up. the only requirements seem to be non evil and an intelligence score of greater than 3.

Not sure if listed, but both Tiefling and Aasimar are INDEED humanoid creatures.

Solaris
2009-12-29, 12:51 AM
Not sure if listed, but both Lesser Tiefling and Lesser Aasimar are INDEED humanoid creatures.

Fixed it for you. While humanoid-shaped, regular aasimar and tieflings are still native outsiders.

Nate the Snake
2009-12-29, 01:17 AM
Are those two things mutually exclusive? I would think if the text uses the words "fly speed" it counts as a movement mode, regardless of whether it has an [Ex] or a [Su] or anything else in front of it.

I agree that "fly speed" means movement mode. The confusion comes from the fact that raptorans have "Flight (Ex)" instead of "fly speed," whereas other races with alternate movement modes have them listed separately as such, not as racial abilities.

Magnor Criol
2009-12-29, 01:20 AM
Fixed it for you. While humanoid-shaped, regular aasimar and tieflings are still native outsiders.

Which is one of their redeeming values that can compensate for LA in a potential wizard's eyes; the different creature type allows for great polymorph cheese.

Grumman
2009-12-29, 01:35 AM
Fun fact, if you are a hellborn your soul is basicly a fiends plaything and has various issues (no res) with it, but if you become a dragon born you lose that ability.
Translation: when Bahamut called "Dibs!" on your soul the devils sat back down, muttering under their breaths.

ZeroNumerous
2009-12-29, 01:39 AM
Translation: when Bahamut called "Dibs!" on your soul the devils sat back down, muttering under their breaths.

Translation: Asmodeus was busy that day and/or didn't want to bother to bring up the Pact Primeval.

Nate the Snake
2009-12-29, 01:45 AM
Translation: when Bahamut called "Dibs!" on your soul the devils sat back down, muttering under their breaths.

May I sig this? :smallamused:

Thurbane
2009-12-29, 02:04 AM
Catfolk Dragonborn is interesting: +2 DEX, +2 CON, +2 CHA; Humanoid (Dragonblood), +2 Dodge vs Dragons, Immune to Frightful Presence, Draconic Aspect, 40 ft movement, Automatic Languages: Common, Feline & Draconic, Favored Classes: Ranger and Fighter.

Grumman
2009-12-29, 02:13 AM
May I sig this? :smallamused:
Be my guest. Thank you.

DabblerWizard
2009-12-29, 10:29 AM
You don't lose anything by becoming a dragonborn during character creation.

Oh wait, that's only for 4.0, my bad. :smallwink:

Yuki Akuma
2009-12-29, 10:40 AM
I agree that "fly speed" means movement mode. The confusion comes from the fact that raptorans have "Flight (Ex)" instead of "fly speed," whereas other races with alternate movement modes have them listed separately as such, not as racial abilities.

All movement modes are Ex abilities. (Well, some, like a demilich's flight or a monk's 90ft land speed, are Su...) They're just generally not listed because there's a blanket rule for them.

Raptorans, however, get a very odd flight movement speed, so it has to be spelled out.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-12-29, 11:48 AM
A Raptoran would only keep their fly speed if they take Dragonborn at level 6+. If gained before that, they lose the racial ability which would have eventually granted the fly speed.

JasonP
2009-12-29, 12:19 PM
Hmm, can dragonborn be applied to your familiar/psycrystal? Animal Companion requires animal, and I think Paladin mounts have the same issue, but familar doesn't have an issue with it.

Since no one answered this, I think I can help.
When something becomes dragonborn it dies and is reborn, so doing that to your familiar would cause it to die and thus be no longer linked to you. It's iffy as to whether it would re-link to you after being reborn but at the very least you would lose xp and maybe even lose the familiar altogether.
I do wonder though if a DM would allow you to take a familiar that was already dragonborn (though it would be tough to meet the 3 Int requirement without it gaining Int from being a familiar).

ZeroNumerous
2009-12-29, 01:22 PM
I do wonder though if a DM would allow you to take a familiar that was already dragonborn (though it would be tough to meet the 3 Int requirement without it gaining Int from being a familiar).

Improved Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedFamiliar). The Formian Worker has Int 6, the Pseudodragon has Int 10, all the elementals have Int 4, the Ice Mephit has Int 10 and the Homunculos has Int 10.

Ultimately the question is: Why would you want to?

EDIT:


Catfolk Dragonborn is interesting: +2 DEX, +2 CON, +2 CHA; Humanoid (Dragonblood), +2 Dodge vs Dragons, Immune to Frightful Presence, Draconic Aspect, 40 ft movement, Automatic Languages: Common, Feline & Draconic, Favored Classes: Ranger and Fighter.

Yes, but to get that you have to have LA +1. LA +1 for +2 DEX/CON/CHA? I don't think it's worth it.

Hunter Noventa
2009-12-29, 02:15 PM
Translation: Asmodeus was busy that day and/or didn't want to bother to bring up the Pact Primeval.

I think it would be more like...
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/8840/asplannedrd3.jpg

deuxhero
2009-12-29, 03:42 PM
Improved Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedFamiliar). The Formian Worker has Int 6, the Pseudodragon has Int 10, all the elementals have Int 4, the Ice Mephit has Int 10 and the Homunculos has Int 10.

Ultimately the question is: Why would you want to?

EDIT:



Yes, but to get that you have to have LA +1. LA +1 for +2 DEX/CON/CHA? I don't think it's worth it.



Blindsense?

Mystic Muse
2009-12-29, 03:51 PM
Dragonborn have level adjustment?:smallconfused:

deuxhero
2009-12-29, 03:52 PM
No, Catfolk do (+1).

I suspect in my 30 sec delay of posting I will be ninjaed.

Mystic Muse
2009-12-29, 06:15 PM
ah okay.

What kind of sight do Dragonborn get? and are they in a sourcebook or just on the WOTC website.

Thurbane
2009-12-29, 06:38 PM
Dragonborn have their own chapter in Races of the Dragon. They only get special visual abilities if they chose the Mind aspect, in which case they get Low Light Vision and Darkvision, which extends in range as your level increases, and they eventually get Blindsense.

What strikes me as odd is that you don't get natural AC - I mean, you're covered in scales. In fact, if you had natural AC before the transformation *poof* it's gone...

"Me Lizard Folk become mighty Dragonborn of Bahamut! Why me scales gone all soft?"


Yes, but to get that you have to have LA +1. LA +1 for +2 DEX/CON/CHA? I don't think it's worth it.
True, but it's a better deal the Hogboblins get (+1 LA for +2 DEX & +2 CON).

Foryn Gilnith
2009-12-29, 07:01 PM
Translation: when Bahamut called "Dibs!" on your soul the devils sat back down, muttering under their breaths.

Translation: Asmodeus was busy that day and/or didn't want to bother to bring up the Pact Primeval.

Nice mental images here.

Bahamut: Dibs on the ginger.
Asmodeus: Damnit, Bahamut, you're not... Ah, screw it; I don't have time for this.

JaronK
2009-12-29, 08:36 PM
All movement modes are Ex abilities. (Well, some, like a demilich's flight or a monk's 90ft land speed, are Su...) They're just generally not listed because there's a blanket rule for them.

False. Movement modes are Natural Abilities, not Ex abilities. See PHB page 180, bottom right side.

JaronK

olentu
2009-12-29, 08:43 PM
False. Movement modes are Natural Abilities, not Ex abilities. See PHB page 180, bottom right side.

JaronK

Hmm, so that started earlier then I had thought.