Leadership

[J.Gellert]

We will be starting a new short campaign tomorrow, and I am rolling a knight-in-shining armor, 6th-level Fighter.

Fighter, because I want to go for mount/sword&shield style, and that needs a whole bunch of feats (going to be picking flaws as well, I think).

The thing is, no paladin; so no special mount.

Can I take the Leadership feat to attract a cohort warhorse? And if I do, will it have HD up to my cohort's level?

[ericgrau]

There are several intelligent magical beasts that make excellent mounts and have LA listed specifically for use as cohorts. They will advance by character class as your cohort level increases. Take a look at griffon, unicorn, pegasus, hippogriff, nightmare, etc.

[Fhaolan]

I recently had this pointed out to me. It might be a better option:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a

[J.Gellert]

I know I'd love a griffon, and a warhorse might be silly compared to, say, a dragon cohort... but I'd rather not drive my DM crazy yet... So I think I'll keep it simple.

The Wild Cohort feat looks like a good idea to try, thank you! :smallsmile:

[Draken]

Dragon Cohort (Draconomicon) for... A wyvern, perhaps, is probably a better option (plus you don't have to bother with the followers), and Ashworm Dragoon (prestige class, Sandstorm, gives you a stunted purple worm mount) is just plain cooler, probably better too.

[Twilight Jack]

Alternately, instead of looking for a RAW workaround, ask your DM if your Cohort can be a heavy warhorse, advanced by HD to the appropriate level.

[Shademan]

I know I'd love a griffon, and a warhorse might be silly compared to, say, a dragon cohort... but I'd rather not drive my DM crazy yet... So I think I'll keep it simple.

The Wild Cohort feat looks like a good idea to try, thank you! :smallsmile:

Asperi?
:smalltongue:

[Foryn Gilnith]

How is that any more or less of a RAW "workaround" than riding a pegasus (for example) is?

[Johel]

Or, given that your wealth should already be comfortable at that level, why don't you simply BUY a horse ? :smallconfused:
At 6th level, a light warhorse is like 1% of your WBL.


Drop the armor for a chain shirt, above which you'll put green clothes.
Get yourself a REAL sword, the more magic the better.
And a shield.
And a hat. A freaking green hat.
And NOW, take leadership...and drive your DM crazy by asking a Lantern Archon called Navy, whose only intelligible speech would be "-Listen !!" :smallamused:

[ZeroNumerous]

Drop the armor for a chain shirt, above which you'll put green clothes.
Get yourself a REAL sword, the more magic the better.
And a shield.
And a hat. A freaking green hat.
And NOW, take leadership...and drive your DM crazy by asking a Lantern Archon called Navy, whose only intelligible speech would be "-Listen !!" :smallamused:


Don't forget to never, ever, talk.

[J.Gellert]

Asperi?
:smalltongue:

I approve :smallbiggrin:

[Mando Knight]

Why no Paladin? :smallconfused: Unless you're spamming Feats for things like mounted Ubercharger builds, Paladin 6 is stronger than Fighter 6 for a Knight In Shining Armor archetype character...

[tyckspoon]

Why no Paladin? :smallconfused: Unless you're spamming Feats for things like mounted Ubercharger builds, Paladin 6 is stronger than Fighter 6 for a Knight In Shining Armor archetype character...

He's going for a feat-intensive build, and Fighter lets him have enough feats to have that and be reasonably good at something *else* as well. He may not want to be stuck with the Paladin Code even for a shining-armor type. His stats may simply not support being a Paladin- you need around a 14 Cha to make those levels worth your time.

..and even if all of those things didin't or don't apply, the stronger build would still be multiclassing. Fighter 2/Pal 4 or Pal 4/Fight 2 using Leadership/Wild Cohort for a good mount will be better than straight Fighter or straight Paladin.

[Jergmo]

Find yourself a warhorse wild cohort, open Savage Species, point at the templates section, and just tell your DM "I want that."

See if he'll let you have a Multiheaded Feral Monstrous warhorse. *Cackles madly*

[Mando Knight]

His stats may simply not support being a Paladin- you need around a 14 Cha to make those levels worth your time.

Leadership. If you're going for a good Leadership build, you want Charisma. Synergy!

I get the feat-intensive bit. Though, really, at level 6 you can cover the basics (Mounted Combat, Leadership, choice of two others with Human...) even without the 4 bonus feats from being a Fighter 6. The reason why I brought it up is because the Paladin has no dead levels before level 7 (including getting minor casting ability and very worthwhile abilities for a Charisma-focused build), while the Fighter has 2 of them.

[J.Gellert]

To show you what I mean, here's my current list of feats:
Luck of Heroes
Power Attack
Combat Expertise
Focus: Lance
Focus: Longsword
Mounted Combat
-Ride-by Attack
-Spirited Charge
Wild Cohort
Improved Shield Bash
Shield Specialization: Heavy Shield
-Agile shield Fighter

Yes, I am taking 4 flaws :smallcool:

And right now, I'm thinking of ditching Luck of Heroes for Specialization: Longsword or Lance. I'm not sure which. Might ditch Wild Cohort and take both, actually. At level 6 it doesn't make such a big difference on my warhorse, and it wouldn't be hard to just buy 4 horses in case one or more die quickly. That's probably more realistic from a historical knight's point of view, anyway :smalltongue:

[ericgrau]

I know I'd love a griffon, and a warhorse might be silly compared to, say, a dragon cohort... but I'd rather not drive my DM crazy yet... So I think I'll keep it simple.

The Wild Cohort feat looks like a good idea to try, thank you! :smallsmile:

You can't get a griffon until level 12 anyway. It's ECL 10. So, whoops, it's too early for a leadership cohort mount. The wild cohort idea OTOH could do it for now. And if you aren't flying by "legendary" levels (11+), what kind of legendary hero are you? :smallbiggrin:

[Sstoopidtallkid]

To show you what I mean, here's my current list of feats:
Luck of Heroes
Power Attack
Combat Expertise
Focus: Lance
Focus: Longsword
Mounted Combat
-Ride-by Attack
-Spirited Charge
Wild Cohort
Improved Shield Bash
Shield Specialization: Heavy Shield
-Agile shield Fighter

Yes, I am taking 4 flaws :smallcool:

And right now, I'm thinking of ditching Luck of Heroes for Specialization: Longsword or Lance. I'm not sure which. Might ditch Wild Cohort and take both, actually. At level 6 it doesn't make such a big difference on my warhorse, and it wouldn't be hard to just buy 4 horses in case one or more die quickly. That's probably more realistic from a historical knight's point of view, anyway :smalltongue:Lose the Weapon Focus feats, and probably the shield-focused ones, too. You want to be 2-handing your Lance. Combat Expertise is a waste as anything other than a prerequisite, replace it with Imp Bull Rush so you can snag Shock Trooper.

[ericgrau]

I see no shock trooper with the power attack or other such craziness. So compared to the other feats shield spec, combat expertise and weapon focus are quite good. But he really should talk to the DM about ditching improved shield bash (unless it's a pre-req?) as he doesn't even have two weapon fighting, nor a great reason to get TWF.

Do also get quick draw to quickly switch from lance to longsword. That way you can full attack on round 2. That'll be a good trade for improved shield bash. Weapon specialization would also be great to have - especially at low levels - but as you can probably tell applying the fighter tree to two weapons might get costly later. It does get multiplied in a charge, btw. You might want to see which weapon you use more and focus more on that one.

A lance may be used one handed while mounted, allowing him to use a shield at the same time with a mere DC 5 ride check. At early levels as part of a charge you may prefer two handed with power attack, but spending two move actions drawing and securing a shield is a bit problematic. It may be better to ditch power attack and stick with one handed use if you want to use a shield. On a charge you might be able to afford -2 AB to power attack even one handed, but this would be worse than simply getting weapon specialization (lance). Again, it seems like you're getting feats for everything when you might have to make a choice on which ones you actually use most of the time.

[J.Gellert]

So, we played today, and I brought that character on the table.

Got Specialization for both Sword and Lance, instead of Luck of Heroes and Wild Cohort. Didn't need either.

One-shotted a bunch of things with charges. Rocked all around unhorsed.

PS @ ericgrau: Agile Shield Fighter is TWF for sword&shield. And you also have move actions to spare (preparing a shield - switching to longsword) when you ride-by-attack. Liberal use of Combat Expertise barely saved my butt against the big bad, twice (completely worth it to wipe the smug smile from the DM's face, after he announced two attacks he thought were successful). Didn't regret any of the feats I picked :smallamused:

[Glimbur]

Or, given that your wealth should already be comfortable at that level, why don't you simply BUY a horse ? :smallconfused:
At 6th level, a light warhorse is like 1% of your WBL.


It'll die. Horribly. A stock war horse has no place on a serious battlefield.