Okay, so how would you CAPTURE a gate?

[Conuly]

We all know how everybody would defend a gate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135336) (and at the moment, neither the gates nor the rifts can be teleported in any way that anybody knows of), but while the Scribblies have all been picked off one by one we can't deny that they've thus far succeeded in the goal of keeping anybody else from capturing an intact gate and using it. Team Evil has yet to get one usable gate. Clearly, they're doing something wrong.

So, now, what would you do? You want to get the gate (pick a gate, any gate), you know you can't move it, and you know which previous plans had failed. How are you gonna do it? (Also? Let's just assume you're evilly evil, why not, so you can go ahead and do ANYthing if it accomplishes your goal of "get the gate, rule the world".)

[Setra]

A very high diplomacy check

[Gift Jeraff]

Can we choose trying to research how to make our own Gate using one of the now-ungated rifts? Just become immortal (lichdom, brain-in-a-jar, whatever) and do the research. If some epic hippie druid and her epic wizard boytoy can do it, why can't you? Hell, you might discover something really important during the research.

[Conuly]

Can we choose trying to research how to make our own Gate using one of the now-ungated rifts? Just become immortal (lichdom, brain-in-a-jar, whatever) and do the research. If some epic hippie druid and her epic wizard boytoy can do it, why can't you? Hell, you might discover something really important during the research.

Where's the fun in that? I mean, when it comes to that, Xykon and Redcloak could go to any of the rifts, gate 'em, and do the rituals and it'd be easier and more reliable than taking over the remaining two, but what would be the point?

[ScottishDragon]

Would we be able to use epic level charachters?

[Kish]

By the terms here, we can go after a gate that Xykon and Redcloak already destroyed and know exactly what they did wrong, so: Attack Dorukan's gate with an epic-level sorcerer lich. If reasonably feasible, throw Dorukan, still alive, into his Gate. If not, grab someone good-aligned and Suggest that they touch the gate. Don't posture.

Or swarm Lirian's gate with undead, making sure to send no living spellcasters and no one who uses fire.

[Conuly]

Would we be able to use epic level charachters?

Yes... but if you can come up with a way of taking a gate without doing so, go for it.


Or swarm Lirian's gate with undead, making sure to send no living spellcasters and no one who uses fire.

Who woulda thunk she wouldn't protect them against fire? That was actually pretty clever on her part and made me laugh when I realized it was a self-destruct.

[ScottishDragon]

Gate:Serini
I can take it with one thing:Whatever the mitd is,an adult form of it that is chaotic evil

[Vulkan]

Oh I would just siege till I kill every thing in my way. Siege the gate with some bolders then some nice biological weapons of sorts. It's all good in the hood

[Acero]

it depends on how the gate is guarded.

but essentially, you need to:

Find gate
kill/remove any guardians


really, that's it

[Gift Jeraff]

Okay, three poorly conceived plans I thought of:

-Dorukan's Gate: Post a bill at every possible tavern asking for Good-aligned adventurers to stop some evil person from using the Gate. (They'll touch it out of their own curiosity.)

-Soon's Gate: Gain power and influence and Azure City and learn the tower's layout, weakness, etc. Seize the throne room via ninja! (Is it possible to never DO anything evil and actually qualify as Lawful Good, despite secretly wishing to use an existence-eating monstrosity for your own goals? You know, so you can become a member of the Sapphire Guard or something. :smalltongue:)

-Kraagor's Gate: Post a bill at every possible tavern asking for high-level adventurers to clear out the dungeon.

[Optimystik]

Xykon came fairly close three times, and he isn't even optimized.

More interesting is Redcloak - with the spells at his disposal, he should have much less trouble locating gates and doing away with opposition than he has been in-strip.

[slayerx]

for a non-epic level method of taking the gate...
simply become a lich and wait for dorukan to die of old age... epic level guardian gone

this method could be used for Lirian, but would take longer

Might work for girard and serini; though we have to see what else they have... serini's monsters might take epic level to take on for instance


By the terms here, we can go after a gate that Xykon and Redcloak already destroyed and know exactly what they did wrong, so: Attack Dorukan's gate with an epic-level sorcerer lich. If reasonably feasible, throw Dorukan, still alive, into his Gate. If not, grab someone good-aligned and Suggest that they touch the gate. Don't posture.

I'd probably do this... but being more specific, i'd probably use a naive good aligned orphan child and tell him that if he touches the gate their will be cake



it depends on how the gate is guarded.

but essentially, you need to:
1) Find gate
2) kill/remove any guardians

Well ya... the question is HOW would you kill and remove their guardians aswell as preventing the gate's destruction

[Conuly]

Oh I would just siege till I kill every thing in my way. Siege the gate with some boulders then some nice biological weapons of sorts. It's all good in the hood

That's great! Then what? Now that you've pretty much ensured the gate's destruction, if not via your boulders than via the self-destruct mechanism because, y'know, sieges take a long time and whichever Scribbly has that particular gate is sure to have destroyed it rather than let it fall into your hands.

Any idiot can capture a gate, I guess - I mean, Xykon? But let's make sure we can capture it intact so it's not totally useless except as a cosmic garbage can.

[magic9mushroom]

I use a Kobold Paladin 1. I Alter Reality until there's no more guardians or defences. (Yes, THAT Kobold Paladin 1.)

Failing almighty Pun-Pun, a Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/Shadowcraft Mage 3/Tainted Scholar 2 should be able to get through the more mundanely defended ones (ie, Lirian's, Soon's, Kraagor's).

Or were you looking for without cheese?

[Magdela]

This reminds me, what's currently happening at Soon's gate? I mean, the rift is still expanding, right?

OT: I would chain gate solars.

[Aldrakan]

Depends on the gate of course, but the plan for each gate has constant requirements.

*Must work fast or suddenly enough to stop its defenders from activating the gate when it looks like they're going to lose.
*Shouldn't attract too much attention, or people will come after you before you can utilize the gate.
*Doesn't rely on extremely volatile components eg. recruiting a powerful dragon that might double cross you. Or, to criticize ScottishDragon's suggestion, a chaotic evil superbeing of unknown methods and goals.

For Serini's gate it might be advisable to bypass as many of the monsters as possible. Fighting them would just take too long and drain your spells. A small number of people with access to invisibility, ghostform and so on set to reach the gate. Scrying to seek out the route that avoids as many creatures that could see through those as possible.
Presumably the nastiest thing would be guarding the gate itself, and might be a problem, especially if its life is linked to the gate somehow. Try and subdue it as quietly as possible. Domination, instant death spells, just put it down fast.

For Lirian's gate, Undead and constructs, things not harmed by mind effecting spells and poisons.
And try to petrify or stun the safeguard as soon as they appear.

For Durokan's gate, actually pretty much exactly what Xykon did. That was a good plan. Well have some backup hidden in case you're not confident of your ability to solo an epic level caster.

For Soon, go for the gate. If you besiege the city and it's falling, they're likely to destroy it. But you pretty much need an army, because you are going to end up fighting the entire city unless you manage some truly epic infiltration. Take a troop of elite fliers, invisible if possible, and head for the tower when the army starts attacking. As soon as you get in try and separate them from the gate with Wall spells, confusion, domination and sleep. Once you have the tower you have to hold it, but they're not going to be able to mount a concerted counterattack with their best troops dead or busy at the walls, a fairly small force should be able to hold it. At this point you just need to hold the city long enough to finish work on the gate.

[magic9mushroom]

@Aldrakan: Running out of spells isn't a problem for a Tainted Scholar. :smalltongue:

[AlfredAmeoba]

Keep an opening in case a crazy beige psychopath wants to blow up the gate, as a matter of courtesy.

Conveniently leave the self destruct rune active. Because, you know, those things are cool.

Turn you back to the hero and start monologuing. Its not like he is going to attack.

I'm currently leaning towards- "Don't be Redcloak or Xykon"

[Kish]

I use a Kobold Paladin 1. I Alter Reality until there's no more guardians or defences. (Yes, THAT Kobold Paladin 1.)
There is no indication that either sarrukhs or Pazuzu exist in the OotS universe.


OT: I would chain gate solars.
And they would hunt you down as soon as the Gate spells compelling them to do something evil for you ended, assuming they had no more immediate contingency plans for evil spellcasters using Gate on them.

[ScottishDragon]

Wait,i can take ANY gate withought even lifting a finger.
1:Be elf
2:go to oracle
3:Ask oracle the exact time and date that i can just walk in and no one would be guarding it.
4:Wait,then go when the date is correct.

[Kish]

Wait,i can take ANY gate withought even lifting a finger.
1:Be elf
2:go to oracle
3:Ask oracle the exact time and date that i can just walk in and no one would be guarding it.

And what do you do when the Oracle replies, "Never" or, "After it's been destroyed"?

[BatRobin]

I'd Hire Xykon, Tsukiko, Redcloak, and Belkar, and tell them lots of power, money, whores, and dead things await them if they help me. :smallamused:

[ScottishDragon]

And what do you do when the Oracle replies, "Never" or, "After it's been destroyed"?

O.k. it won't work then:smallfrown:

[Fragenstein]

O.k. it won't work then:smallfrown:

You could always dangle the oracle out of an open window until he gives you a better answer.

[ScottishDragon]

You could always dangle the oracle out of an open window until he gives you a better answer.

But he can't change the answers to his question.This would work if i wan't more questions.

[Aldrakan]

I'd Hire Xykon, Tsukiko, Redcloak, and Belkar, and tell them lots of power, money, whores, and dead things await them if they help me. :smallamused:

You'd hire people that already want the gate for themselves to get the gate for you? Good luck with that.

[Fragenstein]

But he can't change the answers to his question.This would work if i wan't more questions.

Dangling always works. If it's not working, just use more dangle.

[ScottishDragon]

Dangling always works. If it's not working, just use more dangle.

why dangle?there's alot more ways of making kobolds squeal:belkar::belkar:

[Fragenstein]

why dangle?there's alot more ways of making kobolds squeal:belkar::belkar:

... I think you're looking for the Crack Pairings thread. Though I suppose it would depend on your definition of 'Capture the Gate'.

[Nerdanel]

1. Before taking my first level, I would research optimizations.
2. I would determine how to make a twinked-out diplomancer.
3. I then would level up as normal, taking advantage of my extreme likeability to gain powerful team members to protect me and help me gain XP as I become better at diplomancing.
4. After I have become sufficiently godly, I would seek out the guardian of the gate while posing as a good guy (alignment disguised against magical detection, of course).
5. Once I encountered the guardian, I would diplomance him into liking me a lot.
5a) If the guardian isn't protected from mind-affecting effects, he's now my fanatical follower.
5b) If the guardian is protected from mind-affecting effects, he's just helpful to me. This is not so good, but I can work with it, possibly making the guardian fanatic later if his guard slips.
6. I would convince the guardian that I needed to gain the control of the gate for all the best reasons. I would make up some plausible lie with my godly bluff check, probably something about needing the gate to save the world.
7. The guardian handles all of the traps for me.
8. MUAHAHAHA!

[TriForce]

Id suggest taking over a gate WITHOUT raping a rulebook, but by actual wits and tactics :P


in case of durokans gate, xykon already had control over it, just stoneshap every door to the gate shut, and teleport 2 good guys to it, put one in a hidious painfully torture device, and do whatever you please until you are convincing enough for the other random good guy to touch the gate

[Conuly]

Id suggest taking over a gate WITHOUT raping a rulebook, but by actual wits and tactics :P


in case of durokans gate, xykon already had control over it, just stoneshap every door to the gate shut, and teleport 2 good guys to it, put one in a hidious painfully torture device, and do whatever you please until you are convincing enough for the other random good guy to touch the gate

Oh, that never works, just ask Elan. Either the other random good guy is so full of Honor and Righteousness that all your torture means nothing and he won't touch it, or the tortured good guy screams out "Don't do it! I can take it!" and whatever and convinces you not to betray him in this fashion, or you figure out how to Take that Third Option, or the Bigger Heroes burst in right at the last minute.

It's never gonna work.

[Kish]

This is why Suggestion is better than torture.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Helm of Opposite Alignment. Then torture them. Or Dominate Person.

Information is your friend. Divine like crazy.

[TVTMaster]

Simple diplomacy and misdirection. Again, Soon's gate is pretty much defended by anti-scrying and a city full of paladins. Azure City's gate is easy enough to grab- get a handful of sufficiently powerful casters and arrange a meeting with Soon/Shojo/Hinjo, magically conceal alignment if necessary, and then just set your casters to holding the two entrances to the tower with stacked abjurations and a few fireballs, while you and your other caster go about prepping the gate for world domination.
A necromancer would also be useful for this purpose (or anyone who can maintain a few good summons for the time necessary for the gate rituals) in order to stave off the inevitable siege. A number of casters placed within the city itself would also be useful in disrupting military operations, and you'd need some kind of reinforcement against any attempts to destroy the tower. The basic idea is

Soon's Gate:
Get inside with powerful casters, use more powerful casters to disrupt enemy siege.

[Larspcus2]

Id suggest taking over a gate WITHOUT raping a rulebook, but by actual wits and tactics :P


Have you seen the ideas in the how would you defend a gate thread? Those people are abusing rulebooks left and right :smallamused:

[Aldrakan]

Have you seen the ideas in the how would you defend a gate thread? Those people are abusing rulebooks left and right :smallamused:

True, very much so. But thus far the thread has been about attacking the in-comic gates, that play fair. I mean the answer is pretty much always going to be Pun-Pun otherwise.