PDA

View Full Version : Help me build a "Faerunian" JEDI.



SethFahad
2009-12-31, 01:59 AM
3.5 ed. Forgotten Realm Campaign setting.
Mission: Build A JEDI Knight (like) character.
Not to forget: Imitation of Jedi powers.
Options: Probably gish with good sword fighting or psionic fighter. No psionics.
Some random thoughts:
Race:Human???
Classes:(fighter,sorcerer,EldKnight,AbjChamp,Spell Sword)???
Spells to use: telekinisis,some force spells, some electricity based, jump, feather fall, charm monster or person....haste (thanks),
Weapon: A greatsword or a bastard sword (katana?) with... hmmm... Brilliant Energy special ability.

Any suggestions or corrections???
Thanks in advance

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-12-31, 02:02 AM
Warlock. Snag Eldritch Glaive. If you become Sith, go Hellfire Warlock. Next?

FlamingKobold
2009-12-31, 02:06 AM
So. You want to make the warrior who uses the power of his mind to aid him. With an energy blade. But you want to use thematically misplaced magic, rather than psionics, specifically a soulknife.

I'll get back to you to meet your criteria, but just out of curiousity: why no psionics?

Coidzor
2009-12-31, 02:10 AM
Welp, suggestion's going to be a spell on that list...

As is Haste...

SethFahad
2009-12-31, 02:12 AM
I want the best possible BA progression and the best spellcasting class progression.

So far with some calculations I've managed 18 BA and 17 SC in a 20Level character.

It's a non-psionic campaign.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-12-31, 02:18 AM
BAB and Spellcasting != Jedi. A Warlock gets you a small suite of abilities, usable as much as you want, rather than a massive list of abilities useable only according to weird rules. A Warlock allows you to cut through armor like it isn't there, rather than being stopped by thick skin. A Warlock allows you to beat immunities, use estoric devices, and generally be awesome.

Optimystik
2009-12-31, 02:22 AM
Without Psionics (perhaps even with) I'll agree with Sstoopid and say a Glaivelock does fit your needs best.

As for invocations, you probably want Leaps and Bounds (Force Jump), Flee the Scene (Force Speed), Charm (Jedi Mind Trick), Eldritch Chain (Force Lightning) and Fell Flight (Levitation) among others.

Kylarra
2009-12-31, 02:25 AM
If you don't go with the warlock idea, why not the classic sorcadin? That'll give you a pointless code to follow and be generally annoying to other people a high charisma based build and no memorization of spells needed.

IIRC Paladin 2/ Sorceror 4/ Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8
That gets you 18 CL and 16 BAB

or maybe something involving the swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327).

SethFahad
2009-12-31, 02:32 AM
Hmmm... warlocks... I don't know. A jedi is above all a master swordsman, a great fighter and warlocks have the rogues BA...

The build i was thinking was fighter2/sorc4/spellsw1/abjchamp3/eldknight10.

What about feats? [combat casting, weap foc, practiced spellcaster (sorc), Impr.Init., Escew materials. sudden empower, energy subst. (electricity),...]

Oh!!! And the variant for Sorcerer from PH2 "Metamagic Specialist" to aply meta-feats without increasing spellcasting time! Woot!!!

FlamingKobold
2009-12-31, 02:33 AM
BAB doesn't matter that much with a glaivelock. Touch attacks are convenient like that.

Kylarra
2009-12-31, 02:35 AM
Hmmm... warlocks... I don't know. A jedi is above all a master swordsman, a great fighter and warlocks have the rogues BA...

The build i was thinking was fighter2/sorc4/spellsw1/abjchamp3/eldknight10.Why oh why would you trade 2 levels of AbjChamp for dead eldritch knight levels?

Saintjebus
2009-12-31, 02:36 AM
Except for Yoda, the Jedi were either a master swordsman, or a force wizards. Rarely were they both. I have to throw in my vote for Warlock with the Glaive invocation. If you want, fluff that the reason he's using touch attacks is because he knows exactly where to hit to do the most damage. Find out if you can get your dm to allow the Glaive invocation to be finessable, and then don't dump dex. There, now you're a master swordsman.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-12-31, 02:38 AM
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/stoopidtallkid/touchnormalacro0.jpg
At level 20, the Warlock has a BAB of 5 lower. He also is targeting an AC of 22 lower. That makes him pretty masterful, wouldn't you say?

Grynning
2009-12-31, 02:38 AM
I'm personally not too great at ToB builds, but I imagine there's a Warblade/Wizard->Jade Phoenix Mage build out there that might suit your needs, in addition to those posted above. ToB maneuvers, particularly Diamond Mind, have a very Jedi-like feel to me. Just somethin' a little different if you want to give it a try.

ex cathedra
2009-12-31, 02:40 AM
I suggest... Archivist.

Pick up Divine Power, Moon Blade (SpC) (via domain), and Whirling Blade (SpC) (via divine bard). You're now throwing a lightsaber.

Edit: To clarify, you're now throwing a lightsaber without "being a soulknife," where "being a soulknife" is a colloquial phrase for "sucking."

You can pull most other Jedi tricks, similarly, by pulling spells from every divine list.

SethFahad
2009-12-31, 02:43 AM
If you have a Brilliant energy weapon you don't actually need glaive invocation...

Throwing the Lightsaber!!! I completly forgot about this one! Thanks aethernox

Edit: Hmm... well you can take the "Throw anything" feat or add the Throwing special ability to the saber and... the returning.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-12-31, 02:43 AM
Furthermore, a 15 BAB at level 20 is not appreciatabally lower than the +16 BAB your proposed Gish build has...

But yea... glaivelock sounds about perfect. Repelling Blast for Force Push as well.


If you have a Brilliant energy weapon you don't actually need glaive invocation...

Throwing the Lightsaber!!! I completly forgot about this one! Thanks aethernox

Brilliant Energy weapons do not affect nonliving material at all. It could not, for example, cut through Blast Doors... or even affect 'droids.

SethFahad
2009-12-31, 02:46 AM
Brilliant Energy weapons do not affect nonliving material at all. It could not, for example, cut through Blast Doors... or even affect 'droids.

Oooook... then make it Adamantinum... :smallcool:

ex cathedra
2009-12-31, 02:47 AM
Brilliant Energy weapons are expensive, the Returning property doesn't return the weapon until your next turn (which means that you can't take iteratives or AoOs), and Throw Anything eats another feat. The archivist needs nothing but spells, and the Warlock needs... nothing.

Jack_Banzai
2009-12-31, 02:51 AM
Another vote for Glaivelock. It fits and it's uncomplicated.

SethFahad
2009-12-31, 02:59 AM
A 20lev char has 760k gp wealth.

Brilliant Energy= +4
Throwing=+1
Adamantine=+3000gp
Returning=+1


A +10 weapon equals 200k gp. I think i can manage that....easily...:smallwink:

ex cathedra
2009-12-31, 03:01 AM
You didn't mention that you're starting at 20th level.

Regardless, both the Glaivelock and the Archivist do the same, but with no gold and much more effectively.

So, yes, if you'd like, you could spend 200k to be strictly worse at attacking than the aforementioned suggestions.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-12-31, 03:01 AM
A 20lev char has 760k gp wealth.

Brilliant Energy= +4
Throwing=+1
Adamantine=+3000gp
Returning=+1


A +10 weapon equals 200k gp. I think i can manage that....easily...:smallwink:Yes, but can you full attack with it as a Swift Action?

Optimystik
2009-12-31, 03:04 AM
Except for Yoda, the Jedi were either a master swordsman, or a force wizards. Rarely were they both. I have to throw in my vote for Warlock with the Glaive invocation. If you want, fluff that the reason he's using touch attacks is because he knows exactly where to hit to do the most damage.

You don't have to refluff a jedi using touch attacks at all. Lightsabers generally ignore armor, shield and thick skin bonuses to AC anyway. You're either dodging a lightsaber or deflecting it - just like a touch attack.

It may work differently from this in actual Star Wars d20, but that's how I see them.


Edit: To clarify, you're now throwing a lightsaber without "being a soulknife," where "being a soulknife" is a colloquial phrase for "sucking."

Though I agree that Soulknife does suck, he can get the glowy sword plus a host of jedi-like powers by simply being a Psywar with the Soulbound weapon ACF (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) - if his playgroup is willing to give psionics a try, that is.

SethFahad
2009-12-31, 03:10 AM
Guys, Glaive is not a sword. Its a pole arm. I don't want a bloody pole arm. I want a sword!

Ok, so the best build for a JEDI is a 20lvl Warlock? I'll try it.

What about a race? or Feats?

Kylarra
2009-12-31, 03:15 AM
You're shaping an energy blast from your hands... go ahead and make it look like an oversized sword.

Heck, go ahead and fluff your eldritch blast to be you throwing that sword.

Pluto
2009-12-31, 03:25 AM
I like Bard/Sublime Chord here:

-Charm, Suggestion, Unseen Servant (and later Telekinesis), Expeditious Retreat (+12 Jump), Ghost Sound, plenty of "Mind Tricks" as spells.
-Ability to UMD wands of Flame Blade.
-Skillset and skill points to be a cabable diplomat, acrobat and sneak.
-Decent BA, proficiencies, etc.
-Good Reflex and Will saves.

I can't really think of any Jedi traits that are missing.

ex cathedra
2009-12-31, 03:27 AM
Race... Human, as always, works. Strongheart Halfling would be better in... nearly every way, since your damage isn't based on size. You'd lose the 1 skill point per level, but in exchange you'd get all of the halfling bonuses.

Feats? I'd strongly suggest Quicken, Empower, and Maximize Spell-Like Ability (Eldritch Blast), among other things. Power Attack would be fantastic, since you're making touch attacks.

Andras
2009-12-31, 03:44 AM
Guys, Glaive is not a sword. Its a pole arm. I don't want a bloody pole arm. I want a sword!

On a related note, can you use Short Haft with the eldritch glaive?

Because if so, you have yourself a sword.

sofawall
2009-12-31, 03:47 AM
Oooook... then make it Adamantinum... :smallcool:

How does that even begin to help it cut through blast doors or droids?

Cespenar
2009-12-31, 06:13 AM
How does that even begin to help it cut through blast doors or droids?


Weapons fashioned from adamantine have a natural ability to bypass hardness when sundering weapons or attacking objects, ignoring hardness less than 20.

Blast doors, at least.

sofawall
2009-12-31, 06:17 AM
Blast doors, at least.

Brilliant Energy Adamantium is fairly useless against doors.

hamishspence
2009-12-31, 06:48 AM
Hence- switch off the Brilliant Energy while attacking the doors, and switch it on again when fighting normal creatures.

Most of the major magical properties are switchable- on-off.

sofawall
2009-12-31, 07:19 AM
I do believe I have yet to see a magical property that could be turned on and off at will. FAQ suggests allowing this, and Flaming/Frost etc. might allow it, but I do not think it works with the vast majority of abilities.

Sintanan
2009-12-31, 08:12 AM
Might I suggest a Soulknife?

To counteract psionics, reflavor the "mind blade" as "lightsaber" and replace Wild Talent with Adamantine Mind Blade (to counteract hardness, since lightsabers cut). And replace the mind blade shapes:
"Apprentice Lightsaber" Replaces 'Short Sword', Short Sword stats
"Lightsaber" Replaces 'Long Sword', Long Sword stats
"Grand Lightsaber" Replaces 'Bastard Sword', Bastard Sword stats
"Dual Lightsaber" Replaces '2 short swords', Two-bladed sword stats

Honestly, a little adjustment to the flavor of Soulknife can get rid of psionics taste easily. Other reflavors:

*Psychic Strike becomes something akin to Iaijutsu... in fact you could give your "jedi" Iaijutsu Focus as a skill, and replace the Psychic Strike with bonus feats (one of the web enhancement variants.. Psychic Strike -> Bonus Feats).
*+1 mind blade... no big deal... you're getting better at using it.
*mind blade enhancement... I empower my lightsaber with jedi powers.
*throw mind blade... no changes here
*Bladewind... the lightsaber cuts through many foes in one throw using jedi mind tricks
*just nix Knife to the Soul since you get iaijutsu and bonus feats...

Add in some ToB maneuvers for jedi leaps and dodges and fancy attacks, and you can multiclass into a caster to enhance your jedi mind tricks.

'Soulknife': Lightsaber-combat focused Jedi
'Soulknife'/Warblade: Jedi focused on wuxia training.
'Soulknife'/Warlock: Jedi with advanced mind tricks.

Arakune
2009-12-31, 08:16 AM
Might I suggest a Soulknife?

To counteract psionics, reflavor the "mind blade" as "lightsaber" and replace Wild Talent with Adamantine Mind Blade (to counteract hardness, since lightsabers cut). And replace the mind blade shapes:
"Apprentice Lightsaber" Replaces 'Short Sword', Short Sword stats
"Lightsaber" Replaces 'Long Sword', Long Sword stats
"Grand Lightsaber" Replaces 'Bastard Sword', Bastard Sword stats
"Dual Lightsaber" Replaces '2 short swords', Two-bladed sword stats

Honestly, a little adjustment to the flavor of Soulknife can get rid of psionics taste easily. Other reflavors:

*Psychic Strike becomes something akin to Iaijutsu... in fact you could give your "jedi" Iaijutsu Focus as a skill, and replace the Psychic Strike with bonus feats (one of the web enhancement variants.. Psychic Strike -> Bonus Feats).
*+1 mind blade... no big deal... you're getting better at using it.
*mind blade enhancement... I empower my lightsaber with jedi powers.
*throw mind blade... no changes here
*Bladewind... the lightsaber cuts through many foes in one throw using jedi mind tricks
*just nix Knife to the Soul since you get iaijutsu and bonus feats...

Add in some ToB maneuvers for jedi leaps and dodges and fancy attacks, and you can multiclass into a caster to enhance your jedi mind tricks.

'Soulknife': Lightsaber-combat focused Jedi
'Soulknife'/Warblade: Jedi focused on wuxia training.
'Soulknife'/Warlock: Jedi with advanced mind tricks.

Too much soulknife. The Soulbound ACF (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) does exactly what the soulknife does, have powers (Force powers) and lots of bonus feats. Not only that, but the flavor is better.

Edit: check the previous posts.

hamishspence
2009-12-31, 08:42 AM
I do believe I have yet to see a magical property that could be turned on and off at will. FAQ suggests allowing this, and Flaming/Frost etc. might allow it, but I do not think it works with the vast majority of abilities.


True- Flaming, Frost, etc explicitly have "On command, the weapon is sheathed in energy" in their descriptions- whereas most don't have something like this.

The Magic Item Compendium has a lightsaber-like Rod Of Force- can be used 5 times per day, and one of these uses it to project a +1 brilliant energy longsword, which lasts 10 rounds. The other uses involve a blast of force, and a wall of force.

Trixie
2009-12-31, 11:42 AM
Um... why no one suggested Duskblade yet? :smallconfused:

This is pretty much ultimate class when it comes to casting and doing magic with your sword.

Sintanan
2009-12-31, 04:48 PM
Too much soulknife. The Soulbound ACF (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) does exactly what the soulknife does, have powers (Force powers) and lots of bonus feats. Not only that, but the flavor is better.

Edit: check the previous posts.

Yes, but the O.P. does not want to use psionics, which blocks access to the psychic warrior. I was suggesting possible variations the player can apply to the soulknife to nix the psionics feel, as the closest class to allow the lightsaber concept without psionics is the soulknife... seeing as the soulknife is hardly psionic at all anyhow (only true psionics comes from Wild Talent, rest is flavor and fluff).

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-12-31, 10:47 PM
Hence- switch off the Brilliant Energy while attacking the doors, and switch it on again when fighting normal creatures.

Most of the major magical properties are switchable- on-off.

Then you'd still have to go through not only the target's AC, but also their (generally rediculous) DR. Adamantine does not "guarantee" that you can cut through it, specially not most Constructs.

This is, of course, assuming your GM lets you 'turn it off' and still have a functioning sword, as opposed to a handle.

ex cathedra
2010-01-01, 12:29 AM
Um... why no one suggested Duskblade yet? :smallconfused:

This is pretty much ultimate class when it comes to casting and doing magic with your sword.

Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, and Archivist do it better.

Demons_eye
2010-01-01, 02:02 AM
Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, and Archivist do it better.

Duskblade do it easier, less work to do and less hoops to jump.

ex cathedra
2010-01-01, 03:23 AM
Perhaps, but, once again, worse. Their most unique feature would be channeling. Archivist and Cleric do it very easily, via Ordained Champion. All four of the above can use Smiting Spell to achieve similar, if less action-efficient, results.

icefractal
2010-01-01, 03:42 AM
Another vote for Glaivelock. Simple, does what you want, has invocations that fit Jedi powers well, and is fairly effective. Use Short Haft and your Glaive becomes a sword (even without that, you can simply fluff it as a sword + great mobility that lets you attack people 10' away) - it's a heck of a lot more like a lightsaber than a Brilliant Energy weapon would be.