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taltamir
2009-12-31, 05:04 AM
is there a cleric / warlock dual progression class?
I know dual progression classes are sub par. I just want to know if it exists.

kamikasei
2009-12-31, 05:05 AM
Eldritch Disciple. Complete Mage. Pretty decent.

taltamir
2009-12-31, 05:07 AM
thank you very much. I appreciate the help.

Tokiko Mima
2009-12-31, 05:08 AM
Even more awesome if you drop cleric and enter with 2+ levels of Ur-Priest. :smallbiggrin:

taltamir
2009-12-31, 05:10 AM
oh, and how about a PrC that lets clerics convert touch attacks to range touch attacks like the archmage does for wizards?

kamikasei
2009-12-31, 05:12 AM
Even more awesome if you drop cleric and enter with 2+ levels of Ur-Priest. :smallbiggrin:

Bad Mima! Bad! *sprays with water*


oh, and how about a PrC that lets clerics convert touch attacks to range touch attacks like the archmage does for wizards?

Hierophant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/hierophant.htm)?

taltamir
2009-12-31, 05:16 AM
holy bazookas! An ur priest gets 9th level casting after only 10 levels?
9th level spells at CL10 is amazing!

mmm, but you have to be 5th level to take the class to begin with.

thanks kamikasei, ill look into the hirophant... cute catgirl avatar btw. who is she?

Tokiko Mima
2009-12-31, 05:19 AM
Generally, you use the Reach Spell metamagic feat for that. The archmage's advantage is he gets to do it basically for free. What spells are you looking to make ranged? Buffs? Heals?


Bad Mima! Bad! *sprays with water*

:eek:

:smallfrown: I can't help it.. I have a weakness for overpowering warlocks. :smallfrown:


pssst... also, you might want to try picking Pixie as a race. And you want Hellfire Warlock PrC in there somewhere... with Uncanny Trickster/Legacy Champion cheese if you can.... *eep* *runs*

T.G. Oskar
2009-12-31, 05:20 AM
oh, and how about a PrC that lets clerics convert touch attacks to range touch attacks like the archmage does for wizards?

As Kami said, Hierophant. Though...it's not exactly a good idea, given the class unceremoniously sucks. Sure, it's the divine version of the Archmage, except that it's a weird 0/5 spellcasting level progressing PrC. So...even a 1 level dip is pretty dangerous, considering Eldritch Disciple is already punishing (9/10ths divine, full invocation progressing class), and that you need as many levels as possible of Cleric to make the progression worthwhile.

Also...why not Warlock X/Ur-Priest 1/Eldritch Disciple 10/Hierophant 1? Warlocks are already pretty fiendish-themed, Ur-Priest doesn't force you to take a deity so you automatically comply with the Eldritch Disciple prereqs (not to mention that you get pretty much all options aside from Healing Blast if your character is CE), you get 9th level spells and a plethora of invocations...plus you can get close, if not perfectly so, to Deceive Item and use UMD so you can believe you're a Wizard.

Also...Hellfire Warlock.

ex cathedra
2009-12-31, 05:24 AM
Ur-Priest is fantastic. For everything. Forever. I use it for a lot of builds.

Divine Metamagic: Reach Spell, if you're desperate. It's a rather cheap MM, though, and there are often better prestige class levels.

It technically gets 9th level spells in 9 levels. Blighter, Divine Crusader, Sublime Chord, and Risen Martyr (I think? I can barely recall) Apostle of Peace similarly have highly advanced casting.

taltamir
2009-12-31, 05:25 AM
Generally, you use the Reach Spell metamagic feat for that. The archmage's advantage is he gets to do it basically for free. What spells are you looking to make ranged? Buffs? Heals?

Chain spell metamagic :)
I didn't realize that hirophant doesn't advance casting :(
at first I thought it was the awesomest class ever... forget the reach spell, take Spell Power 5 times and gain 10 caster levels from 5 levels... unfortunately it was not to be :(
it... makes no sense to have such a power... so you give up a caster level, to get part of what you gave up? a level of cleric gives you more than a level of hirophant where you chose spell power. It just makes no sense.


Also...why not Warlock X/Ur-Priest 1/Eldritch Disciple 10/Hierophant 1? Warlocks are already pretty fiendish-themed, Ur-Priest doesn't force you to take a deity so you automatically comply with the Eldritch Disciple prereqs (not to mention that you get pretty much all options aside from Healing Blast if your character is CE), you get 9th level spells and a plethora of invocations...plus you can get close, if not perfectly so, to Deceive Item and use UMD so you can believe you're a Wizard.

WOW! I need to check with my DM if we are playing a good or an evil party... if evil I'd take that in a snap!

Tokiko Mima
2009-12-31, 05:30 AM
...since the MM3 update, you can use Quicken SLA, Empower SLA, and Maximize SLA all in the same round, and if you apply that to Eldritch Glaive + Wand of Divine Power....

*looks around*

Nothing to see here folks! Move along! :smallbiggrin:

taltamir
2009-12-31, 05:31 AM
...since the MM3 update, you can use Quicken SLA, Empower SLA, and Maximize SLA all in the same round, and if you apply that to Eldritch Glaive + Wand of Divine Power....

*looks around*

Nothing to see here folks! Move along! :smallbiggrin:

that... is impressive.

My DM banned wizards/sorcerers... so I doubt he will allow ur priest.

Question, is there a class that gives spell reach other than hirophant? specifically, is there a class which can give me arcane reach without sacrificing caster progression.

is there another class as crazy as ur priest? (aka, 9th level casting in 10 levels... technically, it gives 9th level casting at Ur Priest 9)

Eloel
2009-12-31, 05:37 AM
They're not the best, but they exist.

Blighter (Druid-went-bad)
Apostle of Peace (something went bad. very bad, when someone decided to write BoED)


Then there's Sublime Chord...

gorfnab
2009-12-31, 05:37 AM
Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Hellfire Warlock 3 :smallbiggrin:

Tokiko Mima
2009-12-31, 05:44 AM
I can't think of any other way to get divine arcane reach, sorry. You're kinda faced with two choices: using Reach Spell (possibly with metamagic reducers like Easy Metamagic [Chain Spell] or Arcane Thesis [the spell you want]) or dipping into Hierophant for a single level (which is ok if it's very important for your character.) At least the prerequisites don't require you to take anything you wouldn't have otherwise.


Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Hellfire Warlock 3 :smallbiggrin:

:smalltongue:

Real warlocks don't need Binder. They take their CON damage as the designers intended.... then use a nice cheap Rod of Bodily Restoration to heal right back up. Plus, you don't have to take a chance of having to act like Naberius all the time. That's really annoying! :smallbiggrin:

taltamir
2009-12-31, 05:52 AM
thank you everyone for your help.

I will do without reach.

at least eldrich desciple has can convert its eldrich blast into a healing blast. With chain / spear / cone it could do a lot more.
but its limited to healing spells (and takes a turn attempt). so thats a downside.
If I really need it i will take a 1 level dip in hirphant.

Right now I am looking at (for a chaotic good char) cloistered cleric 4/warlock 1/eldrich disciple 10/I don't know yet.

if evil and if DM allows ur priest, warlock X/ur priest/eldrich disciple.

taltamir
2009-12-31, 07:14 AM
question. what happens to my domains if I start progressing in eldrich disciple?
say, if I take the travel domain:
http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/domain.pl?Travel


Granted Powers: For a total of 1 round per cleric level per day, you can act normally regardless of magical effects that impede movement (similar to the effect of the spell freedom of movement). This effect occurs automatically as soon as it applies, lasts until it runs out or is no longer needed, and can operate multiple times per day ( up to the total daily limit of rounds). This is a spell-like ability. Survival is a class skill.

1 - Longstrider
2 - Locate Object
3 - Fly
4 - Dimension Door
5 - Teleport
6 - Find the Path
7 - Teleport, Greater
8 - Phase Door
9 - Astral Projection

My guess is that the benefits of "freedom for rounds per level" will not continue to increase, and remain at my cleric level (which is 4), while I continue to gain higher level spells from the domain.
is this correct?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-31, 07:19 AM
Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Hellfire Warlock 3 :smallbiggrin:

Ah, the witchalock.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-12-31, 10:44 AM
You know of Shivering Touch and Celerity but you're not familiar with Ur-Priest? For shame.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-12-31, 12:17 PM
DM here.
1: I hope this party won't be evil, but they might. However, I'm ignoring required alignments for classes. Because Paladins should be able to get Rage.
2: Ur-Priest may be allowed, depending on your build(I greatly prefer buffer Clerics to CoDzilla). However, the earliest entry possible is level 6, and I plan for the campaign to only reach 11. So you'd end up with 6th level spells at ECL 11(5th level spells at 11 with Eldritch Disciple). Not broken at all, especially since you don't get turn attempts.
3: Healing Blast is Cone/Chain-able. That's one of the things that makes Eldritch Disciple awesome, it can do relevant in-combat healing with little effort.

taltamir
2009-12-31, 02:05 PM
You know of Shivering Touch and Celerity but you're not familiar with Ur-Priest? For shame.

I have heard of it, but I never realized it was a 10 level class that gave out spell level 9 divine casting by class level 9


Ah, the witchalock.

you win the internet.


DM here.
1: I hope this party won't be evil, but they might. However, I'm ignoring required alignments for classes. Because Paladins should be able to get Rage.
2: Ur-Priest may be allowed, depending on your build(I greatly prefer buffer Clerics to CoDzilla). However, the earliest entry possible is level 6, and I plan for the campaign to only reach 11. So you'd end up with 6th level spells at ECL 11(5th level spells at 11 with Eldritch Disciple). Not broken at all, especially since you don't get turn attempts.
3: Healing Blast is Cone/Chain-able. That's one of the things that makes Eldritch Disciple awesome, it can do relevant in-combat healing with little effort.

1. alright. I will hope for the same. if they do decide to go evil, I know what to do.
I never liked arbitrary class alignment requirement. The "match your god" requirement is sensible. But things like "monks are lawful because you need to study hard", or "barbarians are chaotic because they are savages"... just blech; it is a straightjacked for your creativity.
What if I want to play a monk who has a firm philosophical belief in personal freedom and a philosophical opposition to authority; but is extremely studious and a hard worker?

2. My idea is to be a healbot / buffer / warlock blasting.

My previous idea was to be a healbot / buffer / archer (straight cleric). That is why I liked the partial BAB of the cleric over the cloistered. But if I replace it with cloistered + warlock I get a nicer thematic build, lower bab but only 1 attack a round anyways and vs touch AC. So it works out well. The ranged healing also means I don't need to go into melee and thus don't need the plate for such situations.

Then I came up with the idea of being a warlock, I really wanted to play one... but, well, tier 4; they don't exactly have options. Plus the whole demonic contract thing... I was thinking be a tiefling and say its not from a contract but from birth... or maybe even have a contract with a fey being. Although, the descriptions say that you can get it from a contract with an eladrin, specifically: an eladrin serving your cleric deity.
I am still thinking if I wanna go that route, or the route of being a tiefling (or maybe a "human" with "demon ancestry").

I couldn't decide if I wanted warlock or cleric, so mixing both up works well.
I am not seeking to dominate the game or make a CoDZilla, I promise. I am not going to go into melee (well, maybe if I run out of rnaged healing and someone is down in the negatives)...
Oh and I am not gonna even ask about DMM (to everyone else, DMM and other metamagic reducers are only by permission, and permission really depends on how powerful your build already is)

but I really want to be able to do worthwhile in combat ranged healing, so naturally I am optimizing the build within said parameters... I am gonna try to get ridiculously well optimizing healing... which I don't think presents a problem since its, well, healing :). I am ok with losing the caster levels.

I will present a preliminary build so you could tell me if some aspects need nixing.

3. Sweet, that will be interesting.