[4e] What house rules do you have?

[Guinea Anubis]

So what house rules do you guy play by?

My group only has one house rule we use. If something can't see you it can not get an OA on you. So you can move through the rear of a normal monster and be fine. But this rule also applys to the PCs.

[Jack_Banzai]

We allow Rogues to trade in their Rogue Weapon Talent (+1 to hit with daggers, 1d6 shuriken damage) for a +1 to hit with crossbows.

[Mando Knight]

My group only has one house rule we use. If something can't see you it can not get an OA on you. So you can move through the rear of a normal monster and be fine. But this rule also applys to the PCs.

It's actually RAW. If you can't be seen, you're effectively (and, y'know, literally) invisible. PHB1, page 281: "Invisible" text box, third bullet point:
"You don't provoke opportunity attacks from enemies that can't see you."

[DabblerWizard]

To encourage the use of rituals during the game, I allow players with the ritual casting feat, to master rituals above their level.

Though they can master these rituals sooner than RAW would allow, they take a chance that the ritual will fail, and maybe (read: most definitely :smallamused:) have some backlash. I've thought that magic backlash potential was a nice mechanic in earlier d&d editions - 2e I think?

Mastering a ritual 1-2 levels above one's character level leaves one with a 50% chance that the ritual will fail.

3-4 levels above = 75% chance of failure
5+ levels above = 100% chance of failure (i.e. don't cast it!)

Naturally, once their character level equals the ritual's level, this danger no longer applies.

Once the character has finished prepping the ritual, I roll the percent die to figure out whether the ritual fails. If it fails, they also waste the ritual components they used to prepare it.

[edit] Additional thoughts

I like this rule because it allows players to accumulate rituals they want.

One might argue that it's not fair to let a "mastered" ritual fail, but I like the ambiguity that plays out between understanding a ritual vs. having the necessary arcane faculties to cast it without a hitch.

Besides, mastering can mean, studying and comprehending. It doesn't presuppose that one has the right tools (or skills) to cast it.

[Tengu_temp]

It's actually RAW. If you can't be seen, you're effectively (and, y'know, literally) invisible. PHB1, page 281: "Invisible" text box, third bullet point:
"You don't provoke opportunity attacks from enemies that can't see you."

Yeah, what is a houserule here is that monsters have sides in combat. Unless that was about sneaking past an unsuspecting creature before combat has even started.

[Doug Lampert]

So what house rules do you guy play by?

My group only has one house rule we use. If something can't see you it can not get an OA on you. So you can move through the rear of a normal monster and be fine. But this rule also applys to the PCs.

What is this rear you speak of? There hasn't been facing since 3.0 came out.

In any case. My house rules:
1) Minions have HP equal to (their level+4)/2, minions are no longer considered immune to damage from a miss, instead they have resistance equal to their (level+5)/2 against misses. Whenever enough damage to kill a minion is done then it dies or is disabled and the extra damage is ignored; however, damage not adequate to kill a minion accumulates in a single common pool and some of this may be added to later damage to any minion on that side. In the event that multiple minions are damaged in a single attack then the DM chooses which minions to “actually” kill (typically the most damaged minions or those closest to the source of the damage). Minions have no healing surges, if a power heals a minion as if it had used a healing surge then all accumulated damage is removed.

2) Minions can be intimidated into surrendering as if they were bloodied if at least one tenth of the characters of their level or higher on their side have been killed or knocked unconscious in the encounter.

3) I tend strongly to forget “goes off at death” type powers of monsters or other powers normally used in reaction to taking damage. Thus all “goes off at death” powers are considered daily powers that can be used as a minor action at any time after the monster is first bloodied in an encounter. Similarly, if I forget to activate a monster‟s power that is normally activated by being bloodied or some similar event that occurs on another character‟s turn then the power may later be used as a minor action.

4) Implement Expertise and Weapon Expertise do not exist. Instead weapons and implements can be “masterwork” and increase their proficiency bonus by half their enhancement bonus to hit. This bonus does apply to implements even though they normally don‟t give proficiency bonuses.

5) Epic Fortitude, Endurance, and Will grant only a +2 untyped bonus.

6) Any character "forced‟ to take the same skill twice, say by multiclassing from Paladin to Cleric or by adding a class template to a monster that gives a skill the creature already has receives skill focus instead. Note that if either occurrence of the skill can be retrained to something else then this benefit is not received.

[HMS Invincible]

My DM really early on said that anyone could become trained in Perception. Now we send in our fighter first to search everything.

Bringing in 3.5 items is also a nice thing. Very overpowered compared to 4.0 items though. I mean, what can compare to a headband of intellect or belt of strength?

[Jack_Banzai]

My DM really early on said that anyone could become trained in Perception. Now we send in our fighter first to search everything.

Bringing in 3.5 items is also a nice thing. Very overpowered compared to 4.0 items though. I mean, what can compare to a headband of intellect or belt of strength?

4e was deliberately designed to prevent players from having boosted stats. That is why those items are particularly overpowered.

[Asbestos]

I played in a game where the Fighter's Challenge activated if the monster attacked a target other than the fighter (standard) of if it shifted and didn't attack the fighter in that turn (standard is whenever the critter shifts). I think this only applied to melee monsters.

My houserules? Well, I was allowing Eldritch Strike to replace Eldritch Blast... but then WotC made that a real rule.

I'm considering a feat (or just allow it) that lets Grapple and Bull Rush count as Melee Basic Attacks as far as the Melee Training feat is concerned. I'm trying to figure out the feasibility of a feat that lets Grapple and Bull Rush count as Melee Basic Attacks (Bull Rush effectively is on a charge) and be used in place of them. I'm also trying to rework paragon multiclassing into something more viable (or at least not as mechanically inferior to a normal PP)

[Mando Knight]

5) Epic Fortitude, Endurance Reflex, and Will grant only a +2 untyped bonus.

...Ouch. Those were included in the PHB2 specifically to patch up a character's third NAD, which is generally far weaker (by about 4) than the other two... or even two of them being weaker the third, as is the case with doubled-up NAD stat classes like Rageblood Barbarians.

[kieza]

1) Saving Throws succeed on 11+ not 10+. (I like 50-50 better than 45-55)
2) You get Expertise for free. Also similar bonuses to defenses.
3) Marks trigger when a monster uses an attack power that doesn't include the marker; so if a monster has Twin Strike, it can use one on the marker and one on something else.
4) Aid Another only works if you get at least as good as the person making the check -5 AND the DC -10. (This makes Aid Another scale, and it makes it so that an expert doesn't get much help from a bumbling clod at higher levels)
5) I've reduced monsters' HP while giving them more damage.
6) I sometimes houserule powers, feats, etc. when they turn out to be too powerful. If someone's already using them, I give them the option to retrain immediately.

[Behold_the_Void]

Major one we use is Initiative keys off Dexterity OR Intelligence.

Another one we'll throw in on occasion is if you roll a one to hit, you grant Combat Advantage for the round. Sometimes people like a bit of critical miss rules so long as they aren't extremely retarded, and granting CA is enough to show you botched pretty good without going into the extremely dumb route that a lot of critical miss rules I've seen tend to do.

Sometimes we'll also use the "if you roll a 20 on a save, you can either end all effects or use a healing surge without defense bonuses," because it always feels like kind of a waste when you 20 a saving throw.

[Evard]

My two house rules are cutting the time for rituals and minions can't be affected by auras (goes well with not being hurt by missed attacks).

I can't really think of any other house rules besides letting players change the type of damage their power does, not at will but if a wizard wanted their fireball to be a acid ball then they can change it when they take it but not afterwards.

[Asbestos]

3) Marks trigger when a monster uses an attack power that doesn't include the marker; so if a monster has Twin Strike, it can use one on the marker and one on something else.

Isn't that how it always works "attack that doesn't include you"?

[Gralamin]

Isn't that how it always works "attack that doesn't include you"?

Yes, it is. Similarly, if a monster uses a double strike power, and chooses a defender and other creature to attack, the defender does not get the effects of ignoring his mark.

[Tequila Sunrise]

There are no enhancement bonuses, masterwork armors, Expertise or other feat taxes in my campaign. Instead I use this (http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B13rBX1CAB0XYmU0MzI3OTUtNjRkMi00NTY0L Tg5NTgtYjhkMTQ1ZjllMWI1&hl=en).

I also write all of my own monsters using this. (http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B13rBX1CAB0XZmZlNDlmODEtOTk1YS00MTBmL WI4OWUtOTkwMDI5NzA1ZTI3&hl=en) One of my monster inventions is the Goon, which is halfway between a minion and a standard monster. They each have 2 hp -- a typical at-will deals 1 damage, while anything more (a striker attack, an encounter/daily power, etc.) kill it outright.

[Doug Lampert]

...Ouch. Those were included in the PHB2 specifically to patch up a character's third NAD, which is generally far weaker (by about 4) than the other two... or even two of them being weaker the third, as is the case with doubled-up NAD stat classes like Rageblood Barbarians.

RaW it doesn't work. The Epic feats stack with the Paragon ones and you don't fall behind 2 points in Paragon and 4 MORE points in epic.

Over 20 levels a weak NAD gains roughly +15 with no feats and no unusual or power bonuses, a strong NAD gains +17 with no feats or fancy stuff. [+10 levels, +4 enhancement, +1 or +3 abilities]

So we want to add 3-5 points, the epic feats are fine for that, IF you don't take ANY of the paragon feats, in which case why not just make the paragon feats scale?

In any case your weak NAD is two points behind your strong NADs. Why are we adding 4 points with a single feat to "fix" this? Assuming that this does fix it, then we're guaranteeing that the allegedly good NADs will either actually fall behind the weak one or be well ahead depending on whether or not they are epic boosted.

By giving the +4 you actually need, but giving it as two feats per defense, I allow that they can all be fairly close to "correct" as long as the player boosts the ones he actually needs to boost.

[Swordgleam]

We have crit failures and successes any time you roll a d20, including times when no specific rules apply so I just tell the player, "Roll a d20."

Our other major house rule is that everyone gets some kind of "fate point" type mechanic based on their character's beliefs. Our divine characters get Divine Favor Points, which are based on doing stuff their gods like. Our player who is obsessed with his character becoming the father of the dragonborn race (post-apocalyptic campaign, not many dragonborn around) gets Destiny Points whenever he does something especially dragonborn-y. Our ranger, who is staunchly against anything metaphysical but rolls 1s more often than most people blink, gets a Karma Point every time he does so.

I wrote up an article (http://www.roleplayingtips.com/readissue.php?number=428) about them a while back for the RPT e-zine, if you're interested in more about the rule.

I might have also ruled that feat bonuses can stack when they shouldn't if you make pathetic enough puppydog eyes about it.

[zoobob9]

if a wizard has expanded spellbook, they also get a third utility power.

and undead creature without muscles(lich, skeleton, wraith) has the strength how much you can carry modifier cut in half.

an imporvised weapon can do more damage depending on what it is. A shovel could function as a club or if im feeling generous a weak axe(turn it sideways), if you rip the fang off of a snake or something else that does ongoing poison damage on a bite attack and attatch it to a spear, then the spear does x ongoing poison damage for the next encounter. Stuff like that.

if you hit a fire creature with a wooden weapon then you get a 50/50 chance of doing half damage the next time you use it. Not a miss, half damage. If you do miss and it says "half dagage" you do a quarter damage (yay for fractions!)

those are all that we had, but i read most of the above, and somme of those i really like.

[R. Shackleford]

A nat20 always hits/succeeds, regardless of modifiers, resistances and the like, and something beneficial happens. A nat1 is always a miss/fail, regardless of modifiers, resistances and the like, and something bad happens. Both good/bad things happening are always scaled to match the situation, though, though enemies rolling nat1's tend to die depending on the importance of the encounter.

The only things that augment those rules are effects that mess with crit ranges.

[Mando Knight]

Over 20 levels a weak NAD gains roughly +15 with no feats and no unusual or power bonuses, a strong NAD gains +17 with no feats or fancy stuff. [+10 levels, +4 enhancement, +1 or +3 abilities]

The weak NAD also starts out one or two points lower than the strong ones, and can drop by another point during Heroic. What the Epic NAD feats are meant to do is correct that, which is extremely useful for a frontliner with a weak NAD. If the NAD starts 2 behind, and falls behind 2 more points in the course of leveling, then it's 4 points behind... which is exactly how much the Epic NAD feats adjust it.

[tcrudisi]

RaW it doesn't work. The Epic feats stack with the Paragon ones and you don't fall behind 2 points in Paragon and 4 MORE points in epic.

Over 20 levels a weak NAD gains roughly +15 with no feats and no unusual or power bonuses, a strong NAD gains +17 with no feats or fancy stuff. [+10 levels, +4 enhancement, +1 or +3 abilities]

So we want to add 3-5 points, the epic feats are fine for that, IF you don't take ANY of the paragon feats, in which case why not just make the paragon feats scale?

In any case your weak NAD is two points behind your strong NADs. Why are we adding 4 points with a single feat to "fix" this? Assuming that this does fix it, then we're guaranteeing that the allegedly good NADs will either actually fall behind the weak one or be well ahead depending on whether or not they are epic boosted.

By giving the +4 you actually need, but giving it as two feats per defense, I allow that they can all be fairly close to "correct" as long as the player boosts the ones he actually needs to boost.

Consider a typical point spread: 18, 18, 13, 10, 10, 8. In this one, the 13 goes to 15 by epic levels, where the 18's become 24-28. That's a difference of 5-7 points of defense. The +4 almost corrects this difference. If the players take the paragon defense as well, that puts them right in the middle of where their NAD should be. Just by taking the epic feat, though, they are only slightly behind at the cost of one feat. Considering the power level of other epic feats, this is not overpowering. Personally, if my DM said that the epic feats only gave +2 instead, I would never, ever take those feats. It's just not worth it to spend an epic feat for the same thing as a paragon feat. Sure, they stack, but that's still a bad choice.

When running a game, the only house-rule I'll use is that a really high damaging ability (perhaps the player rolled high or scored a crit) will kill a monster if the monster has <4 hps left after the attack resolves.

[Shardan]

Our only house rule is a free expertise feat since it was made to be a patch.

Well, a couple things that have been recently erratted were on there as well.

[Oracle_Hunter]

(1) Passive Perception / Insight only give "feelings" that something is off. So if the PC walks into a room with an illusion and a trap, they just get a "funny feeling" - it's up to them to actually locate it.

This was to prevent Panopticon PCs from having a supernatural ability to detect objects that are actually hidden. As a compromise, it works OK - my players need to think more, but the Panopticon PC still gets major benefits from the high Perception.

(2) Only Trained individuals may make an Aid Another on a Skill or Ritual check.
This is to resolve the ambiguity on when someone may assist on a Skill check, and to make Rituals a little less easy to boost. It also felt real flavorful.

(3) Objects have Hardness, but melee attacks against them do automatic Critical Hits.
It's a bit more complicated than that, but this fixes the "kobald spearmen vs. ship" problem without making it impossible for a peon with an axe to chop through a door.

[Zocelot]

1. Free Weapon/Expertise is given, but the bonus is reduced by 1.

2. If you're prone, you can't shift.

3. Minions have a small amount of health, and take damage on misses.

Anything else the DM rules doesn't make sense, or would be funner, as it comes up.

[oxybe]

when rolling an AoE attack, you can choose to roll once and compare VS all defenses or roll individually.

other then that nothing else really comes to mind.

[Mystic Muse]

on a critical miss the attack fails and you can be hit by anything except a one. This affects both monsters and players. My players seem to enjoy it. This can turn the tide pretty easily in battles.

[Decoy Lockbox]

Free expertise, paragon defenses, robust defenses.

Daily ritual points instead of component costs, ritual casting time reduced to 1 minute (10 rounds) for anything that would take one hour or less to cast*

Players get a linked encounter slot instead of encounter powers. They choose two legal powers to put in that slot, and once one of them is used, the other also counts as being expended. Increasew versatility, lets players pick niche powers that would otherwise never see the light of day due to superior generalist options*

Players gain new utility powers every odd level*

Instead of having 1hp, minions have a number of "wounds", similar to those in Warhammer/Warhammer 40k. So a two wound minion can take two "hits" before it perishes. Based on the level of the minion, a single hit of a sufficient magnitude counts as an instant kill. So in the last session I ran, the players and some NPC barbarian allies faced off against a horde of enemy barbarians featuring, among other things, 45 of these "minions". The party is not very optimized level 9, so I set the kill number at 20 -- a single hit of 20 or more damage insta-kills one of the psuedo-minions. When a minion had taken a non-fatal hit, I used a little doodad next to the miniature's base to indicate this, as you would do for a status effect or mark.


* These rules were instituted due to the lack of magic items and money in my setting, and are probably inappropriate for "normal" games.

[Swordgleam]

* These rules were instituted due to the lack of magic items and money in my setting, and are probably inappropriate for "normal" games.

I like those rules. My game also lacks money and magic, but I've just been giving them an extra feat every few levels.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I like those rules. My game also lacks money and magic, but I've just been giving them an extra feat every few levels.
There is RAW for running a game without magic, y'know.

[Swordgleam]

There is RAW for running a game without magic, y'know.

For 4e? And it's not without magic - it's low-magic.

[Oracle_Hunter]

For 4e? And it's not without magic - it's low-magic.
Yes.

You gain extra +1's at certain levels. It's even built into the Character Builder as an option.

...it does kind of amuse me how many "home rules" in this thread are actually RAW :smalltongue:

[tcrudisi]

For 4e? And it's not without magic - it's low-magic.

Yes. It's specifically designed for low or no-magic worlds. DMG 2 on page 138 has the guidelines for removing magic items from your campaign, since the players will need inherent bonuses to their attacks, damage, and defenses to compensate.

[Swordgleam]

Yes. It's specifically designed for low or no-magic worlds. DMG 2 on page 138 has the guidelines for removing magic items from your campaign, since the players will need inherent bonuses to their attacks, damage, and defenses to compensate.

That would explain it. I don't have the DMG 2. I've heard good things about it, but I don't really see the need.

[Oracle_Hunter]

That would explain it. I don't have the DMG 2. I've heard good things about it, but I don't really see the need.
Then shell out $10 for one month of DDI. It gives you the fully updated character builder (which incorporated DMG 2 rules), and the nifty Custom Monster Creator.

All you lose when your account expires is further updates.

[tcrudisi]

That would explain it. I don't have the DMG 2. I've heard good things about it, but I don't really see the need.

If you have the character builder, there is an option for inherent bonuses as well. Basically, it just adds +1 to attacks, damage, and defenses at certain intervals. It's much easier to handle it that way than to lower the monsters defenses and hit points. Personally, I would then handle weapon properties by then giving out "Frost Weapons" (or whatever) without any enhancement bonus attached. So if your players have an inherent +2 bonus, great. It also means that finding these weapons and armor should be rare... as they will be useful from level 1 to level 30. But that's what you want, yes?


Then shell out $10 for one month of DDI. It gives you the fully updated character builder (which incorporated DMG 2 rules), and the nifty Custom Monster Creator.

All you lose when your account expires is further updates.

+1

[Swordgleam]

If you have the character builder, there is an option for inherent bonuses as well. Basically, it just adds +1 to attacks, damage, and defenses at certain intervals.

At 5 level intervals, the same as magic items do? Yeah, that sounds worth money. :P

That's a good tip about the character builder, though.

[tcrudisi]

At 5 level intervals, the same as magic items do? Yeah, that sounds worth money. :P

That's a good tip about the character builder, though.

haha. I wish I could tell you what the intervals were, but I honestly don't know. I would assume that it is 5 level intervals, but I'm not sure when they would start.

[Somebloke]

Hmmm....

1) Both the players and the monsters have hp reduced by 25%. Special attacks and sneak attack damage suddenly means something, and players have less of a buffer if they do anything stupid.

2) I use the DMG 2 guidelines for treasure without treasure, slightly modified to provide staggered bonuses across 4 levels, and I have set a limit of one 'blessing' (a 'treasure daily' ability derived from player accomplishments and/or roleplaying moments per two levels, until a total of 5 at 10th level.

3) A caster can cast one ritual per day for every 5 levels they possess.

4) Monster threat level guidelines are...erred on the side of danger. n+1 is typical, and n+3 is common.

5) 1 adventure = 1 level. Not really a houserule but that's how I like to design the campaign flow.

[TheEmerged]

a>We kept the old alignment system.
b>Certain races (tiefling/deva/warforged) and classes (warlock/artificer) aren't available, but this has more to do with the campaign flavor than the rules.
c>Attributes are decided by putting an 18 in your most important stat, then spending 22 points on the remaining five.
d>We're currently toying with a system for the 'spellbook' classes that allow faster swapping of powers but haven't nailed it down.
e>Books aren't handy right now, but that one Half Elf feat that gives everyone *else* in the party a bonus to initiative? Affects the Half-Elf too.
f>A couple of my power changes have sense been errata'd in.
g>I am firmly from the "The Party Levels When the DM SAYS They Level" school of thought, if that counts as a house rule.

We were originally using a background system backward-engineered from the Forgotten Realms campaign backgrounds, but have since moved to the official one.

[Swordgleam]

haha. I wish I could tell you what the intervals were, but I honestly don't know. I would assume that it is 5 level intervals, but I'm not sure when they would start.

Paged through it today in the bookstore. Attack bonuses start at 2, defense at 4, and then you give PCs "boons" which are essentially magic item powers that become inherent in the character.

[Swordgleam]

3) A caster can cast one ritual per day for every 5 levels they possess.


Do you mean once per day for free, or just only one ritual per five levels per day, period?

[Somebloke]

For free (low money campaign).

[DragonBaneDM]

My early on house rule was that you could spend your action point to reroll a daily. I know this makes Kensai obsolete, so I ditched it recently.

One I'm quite fond of is letting encounter powers deal half damage with a miss. Combat goes a lot faster!

And of course the old alignment system remains a solid foundation of any and all campaigns I am a part in.

[nepphi]

Because I hadn't taken the time to make myself as familiar with the skill system, I ruled that all speaking-actions (such as intimidate, bluff, etc) take a minor action in combat. This was to head off the 'but talking is a free action' brigade I seem to be stuck with. Our other DM allowed all manner of such abuses, and I didn't want my team to just spam talk-strikes.

Then I find out they're usually -standard- actions in most cases. Not sure if I should go with RAW or my house rule at this point, because it does speed up combat considerably when the PCs aren't giving up their attack just to shout something intimidating.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Because I hadn't taken the time to make myself as familiar with the skill system, I ruled that all speaking-actions (such as intimidate, bluff, etc) take a minor action in combat. This was to head off the 'but talking is a free action' brigade I seem to be stuck with. Our other DM allowed all manner of such abuses, and I didn't want my team to just spam talk-strikes.

Then I find out they're usually -standard- actions in most cases. Not sure if I should go with RAW or my house rule at this point, because it does speed up combat considerably when the PCs aren't giving up their attack just to shout something intimidating.
This is because the game-mechanical effects of these powers are quite large.

(1) Intimidate allows the PC to force any number of bloodied enemies within range to surrender

(2) Bluff allows the PC to make a Stealth check to Hide as if they had Superior Cover/Total Concealment.

Of course, if you use the effects differently, then a minor action is the norm for skill checks.

[nepphi]

ANY number? Yike, ok, standard it is! *stabs his house rule with Therkla's weapons*

[Dimers]

I'm waaaaay behind the curve on 4e. The only houserule I know I'd like to make regards the initial multiclass feats -- I want to be able to select a weapon, armor or shield proficiency appropriate to the secondary class, instead of a skill.

[Decoy Lockbox]

That would explain it. I don't have the DMG 2. I've heard good things about it, but I don't really see the need.

I came up with a jury-rigged version of the inherent enhancement rules about a year ago, when this campaign started. I just give them a +1 enhancement bonus to all defenses, attack and damage, at the following levels -- 1, 6, 11, 16, etc. There is certainly an argument for spreading it out like the DMG2 version, but I like the way I've done mine, and the players are used to it at this point.

Swordgleam, I'm intrigued by your campaign/setting, since I don't often hear about people running item-less and money-less campaigns. Can you PM me with the details for the sake of my curiosity?

[Doug Lampert]

The weak NAD also starts out one or two points lower than the strong ones, and can drop by another point during Heroic. What the Epic NAD feats are meant to do is correct that, which is extremely useful for a frontliner with a weak NAD. If the NAD starts 2 behind, and falls behind 2 more points in the course of leveling, then it's 4 points behind... which is exactly how much the Epic NAD feats adjust it.

The weak NAD is intended to be at least slightly weaker. If not then why do they even HAVE a weak NAD or base NADs on abilities at all?

Dropping further behind in heroic levels is covered in my analysis, any given point in heroic is 20 levels behind some point in epic, and since there are NO FEATS to fix heroic (and heroic play is the most common) then all levels of heroic must be considered acceptable. Thus we need to be at about the same spread 20 levels later, and it doesn't matter which 20 levels.

And the feats STILL work fine on the non-weak NADs so they don't actually stop you from being behind in the weak NAD at all and they STILL STACK with the paragon feats so you end up equally ahead on the strong NAD if you want to.

A feat that REPLACED the ability mod with a +4 or so would fix the weak NAD, but that's not what they did.

What they did doesn't work. It really doesn't. I posted the analysis of EXACTLY how much you fall behind between Heroic and Epic (baring taking demigod at which point I'm off by 1 point), and +4 doesn't work under ANY analysis of what they want to do, its either too much or too little for EVERY POSSIBLE BUILD and pretty much every single defense! That's not good.

[Doug Lampert]

Consider a typical point spread: 18, 18, 13, 10, 10, 8..

That's not a possible build with any standard array or point buy for any race! That's typical?


In this one, the 13 goes to 15 by epic levels, where the 18's become 24-28. That's a difference of 5-7 points of defense. The +4 almost corrects this difference.

If the goal is to have the defenses be more or less equal then they shouldn't add abilities at all! That's not the design goal. The design goal is for the weak NAD to the weak NAD. The difference in heroic is at the desired level, if you disagree then this "Epic" feat should be available at level ONE by your own logic.

In any case by level 30 ALL NAD defenses are behind so you'll take the Epic feats on ALL NAD defenses. At which point the weak NAD defense is right back to being behind by what you claim is an unacceptable amount. But that makes the other two too strong.


If the players take the paragon defense as well, that puts them right in the middle of where their NAD should be. Just by taking the epic feat, though, they are only slightly behind at the cost of one feat.

But they're not going to skip the epic feat on their other NAD defenses. Why should they? It's +4 to a defense for one feat, which is VERY good.


Considering the power level of other epic feats, this is not overpowering. Personally, if my DM said that the epic feats only gave +2 instead, I would never, ever take those feats. It's just not worth it to spend an epic feat for the same thing as a paragon feat. Sure, they stack, but that's still a bad choice.

Name 16 better epic feats for any one build. Noting that I've eliminated all the expertise feats so that frees up 2 or so right there.

By level 30 you have up to 16 epic feats. +2 untyped to a defense is plenty good enough.

[Yakk]

RaW it doesn't work. The Epic feats stack with the Paragon ones and you don't fall behind 2 points in Paragon and 4 MORE points in epic.

Over 20 levels a weak NAD gains roughly +15 with no feats and no unusual or power bonuses, a strong NAD gains +17 with no feats or fancy stuff. [+10 levels, +4 enhancement, +1 or +3 abilities]
Weak gains +1 (stat)+15 (level)+6(enhance) over 29 levels, or +22 (-7 behind).
Strong gains +4 (stat)+15 (level)+6(enhance) over 29 levels, or +25 (-4 behind).
Typical characters have 2 strong and 1 weak, for an average gap of -5 behind.
Double-defence tapping characters have 1 strong and 2 weak, for an average gap of -6 behind.

Paragon/Robust defence feat patches reduce this to a gap of -3/-4.

Taking all 3 epic defence feats reduce this to a gap of +1/+0 ahead.

Getting a belt, headband and boots of defence bonus brings this to +4/+3 ahead.

Adding in demigod brings this to +4.67/+3.33 ahead.

So problem 1: you can massively invest in NADs and go from being "far behind" to "far ahead".

Problem 2: double-dip issues with over-investment in the same defence.

Problem 3: The over investment items and feats are booooring.

...

Fix: All belts add +1 item bonus to fort/tier. All head, will. All boots, reflex. The "only boosts the defence" items gain an extra +1 over standard (so +2/3/4).

Paragon/Robust defences are removed.

You can add 1/2 (rounded down) your lower stat in the pair to your defence (so someone with 20 str and 18 con has a 17 fortitude at level 1). This shores up the double-stat-dippers a tad.

Kill the untyped +4 bonus to a specific feat. They are both boring and not needed anymore.

...

So now you have:
+15 (level) +3 (item) +6 (enhance) +1.5 (stat and half-other stat) = +25.5 / 29 for weak, and
+15 (level) +3 (item) +6 (enhance) +4.5 (stat and half-other) = 28.5/29 for strong, and
+15 (level) +3 (item) +6 (enhance) +6 (stat and half-other) = +30/29 for double-dip strong.

Which gives averages of +27.5/29 for strong/strong/weak and +27/29 for strong/weak/weak.

Add in demigod (+0.67 to +0.5), and a single feat invested in defences (+0.67), and the gap is basically gone. If they neglect their NADs, they fall behind ~-1.5 to -2.0 points over 30 levels (on average). If they invest fully (burn 3 feats, and 3 item slots, and demigod), they end up being ~+1.5 to +2.17 ahead (on average).

Note that the double-dipper who focuses on a defence can become nearly immune to attacks of that kind by end epic; but that is made up by their relative weakness in the 2 other kinds of NAD. It seems fair that a level 30 goliath demigod battlerager wearing an epic belt of vim might be nigh immune to fort-based attacks.

And the feats that add to your defences have neat side effects by epic. I'm tempted to make evasion and mettle into paragon-tier versions (granting +1 feat to reflex, and to will/fortitude, respectively).

[Faleldir]

I haven't played 4e yet, but when I do, I'd like to use 3.5's rules for item sizes and ignore the stupid "all mounts are large" rule, while giving small races 1/2 carrying capacity to compensate. Small characters still can't wield reach weapons though.

[herrhauptmann]

We have a bunch of houserules, but probably one of our favorites was the result of an accident.
One player went to roll an attack, and cuz he dropped his dice, snagged my d30 that had been sitting in my dice pile. And rolled a 30.
So the DM declared that each game session (not an encounter, or day), one person in the party could roll the d30. If he got a 10, 20, or 30 it counted as a crit. If it was a 30, something cool would happen.
If it was a 1, something horrible would happen. :)
We haven't fumbled yet.

[Mando Knight]

The weak NAD is intended to be at least slightly weaker. If not then why do they even HAVE a weak NAD or base NADs on abilities at all?
Weak, not dead. Without means of patching up your weak NAD, it's a couple behind the strong NADs at best (i.e. 15/16-Dex Strength Paladin with Heavy Shield as compared to his 26/24-ish Str and Cha/Wis) and 4-6 behind at worst. Being that many points behind doesn't mean that it's the weak NAD, it's the way frickin' open NAD. If you want to have a character with a crippling weakness (such as always falling to that flying skank's domination power (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0516.html), or always getting wiped out by any trace of poison), that's fine... but most of us don't.

That's not a possible build with any standard array or point buy for any race! That's typical?
You're right. It's 18/18/13/11/10/8, after racial modifiers.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

We have a bunch of houserules, but probably one of our favorites was the result of an accident.
One player went to roll an attack, and cuz he dropped his dice, snagged my d30 that had been sitting in my dice pile. And rolled a 30.
So the DM declared that each game session (not an encounter, or day), one person in the party could roll the d30. If he got a 10, 20, or 30 it counted as a crit. If it was a 30, something cool would happen.
If it was a 1, something horrible would happen. :)
We haven't fumbled yet.
THAT sounds so fun...

[Asbestos]

Oh, and melée training affects the Minotaur racial power, forgot about that rule.

[tcrudisi]

That's not a possible build with any standard array or point buy for any race! That's typical?

16+2 = 18
16+2 = 18
13
11
10
8

I was actually off by one point (a 10 should have been an 11), but that hardly changes anything.


If the goal is to have the defenses be more or less equal then they shouldn't add abilities at all! That's not the design goal. The design goal is for the weak NAD to the weak NAD. The difference in heroic is at the desired level, if you disagree then this "Epic" feat should be available at level ONE by your own logic.

No, I believe that the epic feats were there to improve the disparity between PCs defenses improving slower than the monsters attack bonuses.


In any case by level 30 ALL NAD defenses are behind so you'll take the Epic feats on ALL NAD defenses. At which point the weak NAD defense is right back to being behind by what you claim is an unacceptable amount. But that makes the other two too strong.

But they're not going to skip the epic feat on their other NAD defenses. Why should they? It's +4 to a defense for one feat, which is VERY good.

Name 16 better epic feats for any one build. Noting that I've eliminated all the expertise feats so that frees up 2 or so right there.

By level 30 you have up to 16 epic feats. +2 untyped to a defense is plenty good enough.

The only defensive feat I find myself taking is the +2 all NADs.

I have yet to see anyone take 16 epic feats. Why? Because it's insane. There are heroic feats that are better than epic feats. Weapon Expertise, Weapon Focus, Weapon Proficiency, etc...

Now, it's much more reasonable to assume that someone might take 7 epic feats by retraining two prior feats. What would those be? Well, that definitely depends on the class. I recently created a Sorcerer, and at level 21 I found myself taking a heroic tier feat. "What? But how can that be?" Well, at level 21 my Wisdom hit 13 so I took Enlarge Spell... which was a superior option to even the epic level feats that I had available. At 22 I took Ruthless Spellfury and 24 Quickened Spellcasting. I also retrained two feats to Sorcerous Flux and Fury of the Storm. However, one of the feats I retrained out is the next one on the list (Echoes of Thunder). At level 28, I plan on taking Sorcerous Reserves for a permanent +1 to hit (I have no Sorcerer daily attack powers despite being a Sorcerer). At level 30? Robust Defenses.

I'm an optimizer, too. I focus on doing everything I can to eek out the most of my character. Unfortunately, and it does pain me, I can't take Robust Defenses until level 30. Epic Fortitude? Epic Will? Epic Reflexes? They are nowhere to be found.

Even my level 25 Swordmage which prioritizes defense first and offense second has only taken Robust Defenses and not the Epic line of feats. Why? Because they just aren't quite good enough. Although I do plan on taking Epic Will at level 26 to shore up my weakest NAD. That'll be the only one I take, though, and it will still be my weakest defense by a couple of points.

Basically, if a player is taking epic defenses, then either they are the defender (and the defenders really need defense boosts; it is terrible seeing strikers with higher defenses, but that's another topic entirely) or making sub-optimal choices anyway. The epic defense feats are good, but not the best choices that you make them out to be. Also, what would you do with Robust Defenses, which is +2 to all NAD's? It is clearly better than +2 to a single NAD.

I apologize in advance if my side isn't very coherent. I've been chatting with a friend from the other side of the world and every time I come up with a point I want to make, I quickly forget it when I get lost in conversation.

[Jayabalard]

It's actually RAW. If you can't be seen, you're effectively (and, y'know, literally) invisible. PHB1, page 281: "Invisible" text box, third bullet point:
"You don't provoke opportunity attacks from enemies that can't see you."His statement also implies another house rule: they've added facing into the game, and you cannot see squares behind you.

[Blackfang108]

His statement also implies another house rule: they've added facing into the game, and you cannot see squares behind you.

Would someone PLEASE tell my DMS in 3.5 and 4e they're playing with a house rule?

For the love of Bahamut, they believe it's CORE RAW.

[Yakk]

(I have no Sorcerer daily attack powers despite being a Sorcerer)
Interesting. How?

You cannot be a hybrid sorcerer, because they must have a sorcerer daily attack power.

Multiclassing only lets you swap out one daily attack power.

So, how are you avoiding having any sorcerer daily attack powers?

Even my level 25 Swordmage which prioritizes defense first and offense second has only taken Robust Defenses and not the Epic line of feats. Why? Because they just aren't quite good enough. Although I do plan on taking Epic Will at level 26 to shore up my weakest NAD. That'll be the only one I take, though, and it will still be my weakest defense by a couple of points.
*nod*, +4 to one defence is a bit situational... and boring.

The problem is both in the patching and the boringness.

[Artanis]

I'm currently a player in a campaign that uses "**** You I'm Awesome tokens". Each player starts with one FYIA token, and can earn more by doing really awesome stuff like thinking up a great outside-the-box idea or giving an awesome description or such. These tokens can be used to let you automatically succeed on an attack or skill check, make the enemy automatically miss, or pretty much anything else you can convince the DM to let you use them on.

[Duos Greanleef]

If you have an awesome description for your skill / attack / movement / whatever / etc, you get a +2 bonus to whatever you're doing.
If you have an epically awesome description for your skill / attack / movement / whatever / etc, you get a +4 bonus to whatever you're doing.
This encourages creative thinking and exciting combat.
For instance, a man being castrated on the fly, and his giblets being used for the next intimidate check.
:amused:

[tcrudisi]

Interesting. How?

You cannot be a hybrid sorcerer, because they must have a sorcerer daily attack power.

Multiclassing only lets you swap out one daily attack power.

So, how are you avoiding having any sorcerer daily attack powers?

*nod*, +4 to one defence is a bit situational... and boring.

The problem is both in the patching and the boringness.

Eternal Seeker epic destiny. "When you gain a class encounter or daily power by gaining a level..." The char builder (possibly incorrectly) interpreted my retraining at each epic level to be me gaining a new class daily (although, it does actually make sense, so the DM and I let it fly). Therefore, I've just retrained all my dailies to be something good, since Sorc dailies are, well, not.

And yeah, +4 to one defense is very situational and boring. I'm a huge fan of modifiers that are always active.


I'm currently a player in a campaign that uses "FYIA (**** you I'm awesome) tokens". Each player starts with one token, and can earn more by doing really awesome stuff like thinking up a great outside-the-box idea or giving an awesome description or such. These tokens can be used to let you automatically succeed on an attack or skill check, make the enemy automatically miss, or pretty much anything else you can convince the DM to let you use them on.

hahaha. I like this. I would only use this house-rule in a silly campaign... but I can see how it would spice up the adventure for the right group. It seems a lot like action points, though.

[skywalker]

Would someone PLEASE tell my DMS in 3.5 and 4e they're playing with a house rule?

For the love of Bahamut, they believe it's CORE RAW.

I nominate you for the task. :smallamused:

[dsmiles]

My group only has one house rule we use. If something can't see you it can not get an OA on you. So you can move through the rear of a normal monster and be fine. But this rule also applys to the PCs.

I use this one, because I use a hex grid and facing. You're right handed, that means your shield's on the left. That means no shield bonus on the right.

[Telok]

Our first 4e game is only up to level 4 so far but we already have a couple, and I can forsee a few more coming.

First, quadrapeds have x1.5 Str carrying capacity instead of x1.25. This is so that dragonborn can ride horses. It dosen't help the warforged fighter wearing plate, he's still over the normal carry weight for an elephant with this rule.

Second, we've reintroduced the movement costs for diagonal movement from 3.5e. Because they were not really any difficulty and it stopped all the "square wheel/ball" jokes I was making. There's so little to do between sessions in 4e that I started working up a form of geometry for D&D that squared circles.

The upcoming house rules I can see are going to involve vehicles, paticularly when we get to airships and boats that have fewer HP than the passengers. Another is going to be the magic items and resale values. The weapon users won't touch anything with a less than +3 proficency bonus, nobody with heavy armor will wear anything but dwarven, and everybody wants a cloak of displacement.

[Tiki Snakes]

Our first 4e game is only up to level 4 so far but we already have a couple, and I can forsee a few more coming.

First, quadrapeds have x1.5 Str carrying capacity instead of x1.25. This is so that dragonborn can ride horses. It dosen't help the warforged fighter wearing plate, he's still over the normal carry weight for an elephant with this rule.

Second, we've reintroduced the movement costs for diagonal movement from 3.5e. Because they were not really any difficulty and it stopped all the "square wheel/ball" jokes I was making. There's so little to do between sessions in 4e that I started working up a form of geometry for D&D that squared circles.

The upcoming house rules I can see are going to involve vehicles, paticularly when we get to airships and boats that have fewer HP than the passengers. Another is going to be the magic items and resale values. The weapon users won't touch anything with a less than +3 proficency bonus, nobody with heavy armor will wear anything but dwarven, and everybody wants a cloak of displacement.

The Cloak of Displacement was really, really tasty, but it has been hit by the nerfbat, and is now much more balanced. (I can choose other items again without extremely difficult will-power-tests! Yay!) +3 proficiency bonus means no mauls, Mordenkrad or Execution axe. It's nice, but they are balanced by having a generally lower damage, so no biggy I feel.

But they can't find anything better than Dwarven heavy armour? I mean, it almost makes sense, fluffwise, but It doesn't speak for varied character builds if they can't find any more fun toys than simply healing quicker.

[dsmiles]

Would someone PLEASE tell my DMS in 3.5 and 4e they're playing with a house rule?

For the love of Bahamut, they believe it's CORE RAW.

It's not Core RAW. But it is an option laid out in the 3rd ed version of UA. So, technically it is a "rule as written," but only technically.

[Blackfang108]

It's not Core RAW. But it is an option laid out in the 3rd ed version of UA. So, technically it is a "rule as written," but only technically.

Yes, but they believe that this is gospel from the DMG I. (they DID cut their teeth on older editions, however. not sure if facing was Core back then or not.)

It still doesn't let my true seeing character get an AoO (while in combat, mind you) when someone moves behind me.

[Theodoric]

It dosen't help the warforged fighter wearing plate, he's still over the normal carry weight for an elephant with this rule.
Look on page 114 of the Eberron Player's guide; it's possible to turn that Plate armour into an attached armour (for free, even), which reduces its weight by a quarter. Every little bit helps. :smallwink:

[Satyr]

I pretty much gave up on D&D4, when I saw , that I would probalby have to rewrite the whole system to create something i would really enjoy to play, but beforehand, I had quite a few houserules which I still think make a better game.



No Retraining. People don't just forget stuff they have learned. That's stupid. Once any character feature is taken, it stays and cannot be changed until there is a plausible ingame reason for the change (mutation spells, amnesia... be creative).

No Loss of Known Powers. Since Retraining is out anyway, characters don't suddenly forget powers they knew beforehand just because they have learned new stuff. They still learn new stuff, but they don't forget the maneuvers, spells and effects they have used for ages, just because there is a new trick in their portfolio. Whenever characters would have the ability to relearn a power, they gain a new power of their current level or lower instead. The old power stays right were it is. Yes, this means that characters will have many more powers at higher level, but some of them will be weaker than usual. At 13th and 23rd level, players may chose to take an additional of the class' At-Will powers instead of a new encounter power.
There is one exception though: if a multiclassed character takes one of the power swap feats, he must lose one of his powers for the new one, if the feat is not taken on a level when the character would gain a new power anyhow.

Players make all the rolls: Player characters must roll for their defenses against enemies. Normal NPC's (unnamed ones at least) always take 10 for their attacks; instead Players role for their defenses – just replace the flat +10 bonus to all Defenses with a D20 roll which should meet the total of the attacker's attack bonus +10 (a match is always counted in favor of the attacker). A natural one on the defense roll indicates a critical hit (if the attack has the high critical property, a natural 2 also counts as a critical hit). Important named NPC (including all Elite and Leader monsters) roll for their attacks as usual, making these encounters a bit less predictable. Damage is rolled as usual.

Stamina instead of Hitpoints: Hitpoints are now called Stamina; they are a measure for the character's fitness, dedication and even luck. Characters lose Stamina when they are “hit” which emulates very narrow escapes, scratches and the like, not real injuries. Endurance is regenerated through Healing Surges, Rest and so on. If the Stamina of a character reaches 0, the character is knocked out for the rest of the encounter and all additional damage is directly dealing injuries. Characters are bloodied when they reach the usual margin, and in most cases Stamina works just like HP worked beforehand, This is mostly a semantic change.

Injuries: Apart from the true Hitpoints, every character has a number of injuries equal to his or her constitution score + half level. Injuries are real wounds and more serious damage than superficial scratches, the kind of damage that takes time and professional aid – or magic – to heal. Every hit deals one point of injury damage, each critical hit two points. If an attack deals more damage than the Character's Constitution Score, it deals an additional point of injuries. If a Character is dropped to 0 Stamina, all additional damage is injury damage. When a character reaches 0 injuries he is completely and utterly dead. In addition, injuries hinder a character's ability to move, concentrate and so on and therefore grant flat disadvantages to all forms of action once a character is hurt enough. Once a character has lost half his injuries (rounded up), he is “mauled” - the character bleeds from several wounds, feels pain and may even have problems to keep up standing. A mauled character is automatically weakened and slowed (Save ends both) when he reaches this amount of damage, and suffers a flat unnamed -2 penalty to all his rolls and checks, with the exception of his Saving Throws until he is not considered mauled anymore.

Combat Options. The very idea of encounter powers is remarkably retarded. “Yeah, I just show what an awesome swordsman I am with this Blow of the Angry Mandrill Maneuvering, but I have suddenly forgotten how it works.” Sure. Whatever. But there is a way out: Encounter Powers can be used again and again. A character has an “Combat Option Pool” equal to his highest ability modifier. This pool is increased by 5 points at 11th level and by 10 points at 21st level. The Combat Option Pool describes, how many encounter powers a character may use per encounter – at the end of each encounter, the pool is completely refreshed. Using an encounter power cost a number of points equal to its rank – heroic tier powers cost one point, paragon tier powers two and epic tier powers cost 3 points per use. Therefore it is so nice to keep the older powers even though the character becomes more powerful. It doesn't matter which encounter power is used, or how often it was used before – as long as there are remaining points in the action pool, the character may use encounter powers, even if he only uses the same power over and over again. This only affects encounter powers, though. Daily powers and At-Will powers work exactly the same as before.

Regeneration: Stamina is regenerated as usual – through Healing Surges, Powers with the Healing key word (just read “HP” as “Stamina”) and so on. Injuries heal much slower – a character heal 1 (yes, exactly 1 (one)) point of injuries per day when he or she rests. Characters may heal one additional point of injuries when they are healed with a daily power with the healing key word, spent one of their healing surges to do so (this healing surge is lost for the day, and does nothing for the character's stamina) or if the Healing skill is used (DC 15, DC 20 when used on self). A character may profit from several of these aspects, but can never regenerate more injuries than his constitution modifier per day.

Injuries and Stamina for NPCs and Monsters: NPC's and Monsters have no Injuries or Stamina. They work exactly like before, with one exception: Once a monster is bloodied, it becomes weakened and slowed (Save ends both), just like a character which became mauled. All creatures which gain a special effect when they are bloodied, are only weakened and slowed until the end of their next turn. Than the usual effects of their powers set in.

The extreme deadliness of death: One of the most laughable and at the same time sad aspects of D&D is that a character's death is often no more than a speed bump, which absolute cheapens the drama of the game. On the other hand, revivify magic is so hard-triggered into the game (even for good reasons) that it cannot – and probably should not – be removed from the game. Nonetheless, a character's death should always have more impact on the game – and especially on the character – than the sad state of fact in Vanilla D&D 4.
Whenever a PC dies, something bad happens to him, even when he is revived. A character who is revived suffers from a semi-permanent disadvantageous trait or loss. The player should suggest a fitting change, but the last word is always up to the gamemaster. If the player does not come up with an suitable idea on his or her own, the “Death Effect” table below is consulted. The table can also serve as a source of inspiration. The effects of the revivification are permanent until the next level or a similar condition and no means whatsoever short of direct divine intervention (meaning absolute and condescendingly merciful DM fiat) could change them.

No more Minions anymore. As it is, the minion rules are stupid, since they lack an internal logic and only work (if they would work, that is) on a metalevel of the game, but not consistently within the reality of the game. Therefore, minions are treated as more cowardly creatures instead of ridiculously fragile ones. A minion has exactly so many Hitpoints as a usual representative of its kind or species with the same level – they are only much more easy to intimidate. Once a minion is hurt, it runs away, if possible. It counts as beaten for the purpose of XP, but may regroup in another part of the dungeon and attack the PC's another time, when they have time to regain their morals if this makes sense within the game's setting. In this way, they could grant XP more than once for their defeat. Since a fleeing minion is not dead, any power or ability triggered by downing a foe are not activated through a hit which sends a minion running.
If a minion cannot flee for whatsoever reason (perhaps the PC's cover the only door or the creature would suffer a fate worse than death (TM) if it flees) and it must fight to the death, it fights on, but desperately so: All attacks with the fear key word and all uses of the intimidate skill gain a flat +2 bonus against minions who have to fight on.
All Minions are automatically killed through critical hits, though. With extremely brutal and gory effects.

More diversified Power Sources. As it is in Vanilla D&D 4, the different power sources are only descriptive but have little to no influence on the mechanical level Which I consider as a waste of potential – the different power source should have an impact on the game. Therefore, every character gains an additional feature based on his or her power source. This feature is chosen during the character creation and may not be changed afterwards.

Arcane:
Able Learner: The character has a knack for learning new and exotic spells. The character may take the Power Swap Feats for Powers with the Arcane keyword without needing to multiclass.
Fast Rituals: The Character has such a deep and large understanding of the trappings of magic that he or she can easily and quickly use ritualistic magic. The time to cast a magical ritual is halved for this character. You may also spent an action point to use any Ritual you know as a Standard action.
Magic Resistance: The character knows so much about magic, he has little difficulties to resist it most of the time. Once per day for one round, the character gains Resist 5 against one type of damage from the following list: acid, cold, fire, force, lightning, necrotic, poison, psychic, thunder. The character may chose the item of this resistance every day anew.
Magic Affinity: The character has a strong affinity for one specific element. The character may chose one of the following types of damage: acid, cold, fire, force, lightning, necrotic, poison, psychic, thunder. When the character uses a power with the same key word, he gains a +1 bonus to the attack roll. This bonus increases to +2 at paragon tier and +3 at legendary tier.

Divine:
Bringer of the Eternal Rest: The character has a strong power to face and fight the Undead and bring them back into the natural state of death. Characters with this class feature may add their Wisdom or Charisma bonus to all damage rolls against creatures with the undead type when using a power with the divine keyword.
Godsworn: Any character with the Channel Divinity class feature can be sworn to a god – with more than the usual compassion and duty. A Godsworn character gains the corresponding Channel Divinity feat of his deity as a free bonus feat at 1st level, but must always keep up the commandments and alignment of his chosen god. If the character violates the core beliefs of his faith, he loses the ability to use any Channel Divinity powers until he or she attunes. What counts as a violation of the faith's believes or as an atonement is determined by the GM.
Master of Lore: The character has spent many years studying a variety of topics, which grants him a broad and deep knowledge about almost everything. You gain a +2 bonus to all knowledge skill checks.
Zealot: The Character is filled with a strong and fanatic faith, which let him overcome most challenges through his fanaticism – The character gains a +1 bonus to saving throws (but may be hard to deal with due to his fundamentalist views).

Martial
Bloodthirsty: When the character delivers an attack that reduces a not yet bloodied foe to 0 or less hitpoints with a single hit, he or she gains a +1 bonus to all attack rolls and damage rolls per tier until the end of the character's next turn. Killing several foes in one turn does not bring a higher bonus.
Faithful Friend: The Character is a loyal and true comrade and is willing to risk his life for his friends. When his friends needs it most, this character is at his or her best. The character may designate up to six people he or she considers as close friends. These individuals don't have to be other player characters. When one of these friends grants combat advantage, the character gains a ++1 bonus to attack and damage rolls per tier against all foes who threaten this friend. No matter how many friends are threatened, the bonus never increases.
The Terror: The Character obviously looks very dangerous. The character may add a +2 bonus per tier to the Intimidate skill and when he wields a magical weapon, gains the weapon's enhancement bonus to all Intimidate skill checks. The character also gains a +2 bonus to Saving Throws against fear effects.
Weapon Bond: The character has a natural talent for wielding one specific weapon, such as a longsword or a shortbow. The character may select a single simple, military or superior weapon. When wielding this weapon, the character gains a +1 bonus to attack rolls. This increases to +2 at paragon tier and +3 at legendary tier. This bonus stacks with similar bonuses from feats or the fighter's Weapon Talent.



The Death Effect Table (D 12)

Feebleness: You lose a point of Strength. This point is lost and only regained when the character would increase any ability score by leveling for the next time. Your death has atrophied some of your muscles.
Rigor Mortis: You lose a point of Dexterity. This point is lost and only regained when the character would increase any ability score by leveling for the next time. Your death made you slower.
Sickness: You lose a point of Constitution. This point is lost and only regained when the character would increase any ability score by leveling for the next time. Your death has left you more vulnerable.
Brain Fever: You lose a point of Wisdom. This point is lost and only regained when the character would increase any ability score by leveling for the next time. Your death has damaged your common sense.
Brain Damage: You lose a point of Intelligence. This point is lost and only regained when the character would increase any ability score by leveling for the next time. Your death has let to a critical shortage of oxygen in the brain.
Paleness. You lose a point of Charisma. This point is lost and only regained when the character would increase any ability score by leveling for the next time. You have taken the pale skin of dead meat.
Partial Amnesia: You have forgotten so much. You lose all XP you have collected since the last gaining of a level.
Trick Knee. The injury that killed you hurt your leg. Your speed is reduced by one, until you gain the next level.
Horrible Nightmares. Every time you fall asleep, you live through the moments of your death. Again and again. Reduce the number of your Healing Surges by one until you gain the next level.
Haunted. You have seen something on the other side, and you can't forget it. Your nerves are suffering from it. Reduce your Will Saves by one point, you gain the next level.
Post-Mortal Stupor. Sometimes in dangerous situations, you just freeze. Reduce your Reflex saves by one point, until you gain the next level.
Bad Infection. The wound that killed you got a bad infection, leaving you ill for quite a time, with a lot of fever. Reduce your Fortitude saves by one point until you gain the next level.

[Oracle_Hunter]

That's the angriest set of house rules I've ever seen :smalleek:

I'm almost afraid to ask what your house rules to make 3.5 playable were.

[Satyr]

I took most system and rewrote it. That's the Serpent and Sewers crap mentined in my sig.

[Shazbot79]

I took most system and rewrote it. That's the Serpent and Sewers crap mentined in my sig.

I don't think D&D is a good choice for you.

This isn't a knock on your GM skills, but if I had signed on to play a game of Dungeons & Dragons, and you handed me what is essentially a completely rewritten version, then I wouldn't even stick around for the first session.

There are probably games out there that cater more closely to your style....you should seek out one of those.

[Telok]

That's the angriest set of house rules I've ever seen :smalleek:

I'm almost afraid to ask what your house rules to make 3.5 playable were.

Pish tish.

Everything is a benefit to the players except for the wounds and death penalties. The wounds make it a more beliveable damage system than just having the surges heal everything from arrows to lava to broken legs in 5 minutes. The death penalties are actually less penalizing than the standard 4e -2 boring bit, they just last about twice as long.

Mostly it looks like a nice set of rules that reminds me of AD&D.

As for the "nothing better than dwarven armor" thing, more healing is always useful and applies to all combat situations. The other armors have situational effects that won't always be useful. The de-emphasis on cool or interesting magic items in favor of player powers makes the magic items just a bookkeeping exercise, and not a terribly difficult one at that.

"A +1 axe of eviceration? Melt it down for the residum. I can't knock them prone if I can't hit them, I'll stick with my +2 longsword of boring."

[Satyr]

I don't think D&D is a good choice for you.

I don't think that either, but I like to play the system from time to time, even though it is usually annoys me as hell, if I do so, and I have a bad feeling afterwards. It's a lot like ouzo in this regard.


This isn't a knock on your GM skills, but if I had signed on to play a game of Dungeons & Dragons, and you handed me what is essentially a completely rewritten version, then I wouldn't even stick around for the first session.

It depends on what you rewrite and what kind of role the PC's have in the game. Serpents and Sewers characters have a lot more options, depth and layers than usual D&D characters. You can basically do a lot more stuff. It is also a bit better balanced. Most importantly, it is a fun version of the game.


There are probably games out there that cater more closely to your style....you should seek out one of those.

I know, I know... but none of those make as much fun to hate and rewrite. D&D and me is a pretty disfunctional relationship, but sometimes, just sometimes, I want to switch out the brain and just have a simple-minded game of no depth whatsoever. And for this, there is nothing better than D&D.


Everything is a benefit to the players except for the wounds and death penalties.

It's a lot easier to sell any house rules when one of the core stuff is "and you players get some cool new stuff, too".

[Katana_Geldar]

* No one is allowed to make a Monty Python reference once the game begins, not even the GM, if you are you are shot in the head with the nerf gun.
* If you miss more than one session without telling the GM and then return, your character gets left behind and has a very embarrassing story (concocted by everyone but you) to relate to the party before they can make a single dice roll.

[dsmiles]

Yes, but they believe that this is gospel from the DMG I. (they DID cut their teeth on older editions, however. not sure if facing was Core back then or not.)

It still doesn't let my true seeing character get an AoO (while in combat, mind you) when someone moves behind me.

I never even used a battlemap in older editions, and there were no AoO's in 1e/2e. But back then, you could backstab just being behind the enemy.

Also, I just remembered another house rule we use:

We play 4e with *gasp!* good-aligned metallic dragons and evil-aligned chromatic dragons. OH THE HUMANITY!!!!!

[tcrudisi]

Also, I just remembered another house rule we use:

We play 4e with *gasp!* good-aligned metallic dragons and evil-aligned chromatic dragons. OH THE HUMANITY!!!!!

That's only half of a house rule. Per the MM:


Chromatic dragons are generally evil, greedy, and predatory.

It further goes on to list all the chromatic dragons as "evil" in their alignment.

Metallic dragons? Yeah, that's a house-rule, but one I'm willing to bet that many groups use (even if only accidentally). Heck, I still find myself defaulting to "gold dragons are good aligned" when I think about them.

[dsmiles]

Metallic dragons? Yeah, that's a house-rule, but one I'm willing to bet that many groups use (even if only accidentally). Heck, I still find myself defaulting to "gold dragons are good aligned" when I think about them.

Hard to change your ways of thinking after a quarter-century of gaming. I still use a lot of rules from AD&D as "house rules" for 3.x and 4e.

[tcrudisi]

Hard to change your ways of thinking after a quarter-century of gaming. I still use a lot of rules from AD&D as "house rules" for 3.x and 4e.

Definitely. It's also amazing to me to go play/run for different groups and find out that rules I assumed were RAW are actually house-rules. But the main guy that I play under does use a lot of house rules. Periodically, one sneaks into my mind as being actual RAW. Once it's in there as RAW, it's tough to get out.

I also benefit (heh) from what I like to call "a terrible memory." For instance, I played a lot of 2nd ed. back in the day. What do I remember about 2nd? Well, I could calculate THAC0 and I remember that -10 AC was tops. Beyond that, I really don't remember anything. Likewise, my memory of the rules of 3.x have almost completely faded. I couldn't even create a level 1 character from memory any more and I used to pop out epic level characters (minus spells) from memory with no problem.

But you are correct -- sometimes those pesky rules sneak in there from previous editions and can't be shaken out.

[Shazbot79]

It depends on what you rewrite and what kind of role the PC's have in the game. Serpents and Sewers characters have a lot more options, depth and layers than usual D&D characters. You can basically do a lot more stuff. It is also a bit better balanced. Most importantly, it is a fun version of the game.


Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that your houserules are inherently bad...in fact I quite like the injury rules and the power source options.

(Tangent: I feel that in 4E, power sources should have remained implicit...having power sources as part of the character without any sort of mechanical support violates the rule of Chekhov's Gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov's_gun) to me. /Tanget)

But I look at this as being akin to signing up to play Exalted and finding out that the game has essentially been houseruled into another version of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.

But then again, I can forgive heavily houseruled games if the additions are good.



I know, I know... but none of those make as much fun to hate and rewrite. D&D and me is a pretty disfunctional relationship, but sometimes, just sometimes, I want to switch out the brain and just have a simple-minded game of no depth whatsoever. And for this, there is nothing better than D&D.


I don't find D&D to be lacking in depth, just the sort of depth that some people, yourself included, are looking for.

The depth that you want is realism. Other people favor tactical depth, while others want narrative depth.

Back on topic:

My houserules are few and far between.

I use inherent bonuses, and make magic item availability very limited. There are no magic marts because the secrets behind enchanting items have been lost to the ages. the Enchant Item ritual exists, but players are going to have to go on a quest if they want to find it.

I also tend to make up my own items to give to players.

Also, when players spend healing surges inbetween encounters, say during a short rest, they heal an amount of HP equal to their bloodied value.

Monsters have less HP...my formula is Type x Level + CON with elites having twice that amount of HP and solos having 4x HP. Also, I increase static values of monster damage...general +2 for heroic tier monsters and +4/+8 for Paragon and Epic monsters respectively.

(Type: Controller/Artillery: 4; Skirmisher/Lurker: 5; Soldier/Leader: 6; Brute: 7)

I award XP for noncombat challenges differently, but I'm not going to detail that here because if they become aware of my system they will exploit the hell out of it.

Oh yes and *bump*

[Chaelos]

Our DM loves rituals and the effects they produce, and dislikes the way the monetary cost tends to restrict their usage. He was originally going to just let us cast (non item creation) rituals for free, but I--feeling guilty, since this was everyone's first time playing 4E (including mine)--asked to homebrew an Eschew Materials-style feat that reduces the cost of rituals by 50 gp for every character level of the caster. It's very flavorful, to say the least.

This probably works only because 1) there are no munchkins in our group and 2) we're all newbies to this system, though.