how long do Goblins normally live?

[Mystic Muse]

I'm thinking of playing a Goblin character in a campaign and was wondering, how long do Goblins live on average? I've looked at the SRD and there's nothing. the best I have to go off of is the online comic goblins where it says thirty winters. Is this the case?

[Yuki Akuma]

What are the chances of it actually coming up in the game?

[Crow]

It depends on how close the goblins live to the Player Characters.

[Mystic Muse]

What are the chances of it actually coming up in the game?

well If I put my character as an age of 35 and they have an average lifespan of 30 years the aging penalties will be a real killer.

[The Dark Fiddler]

What are the chances of it actually coming up in the game?

The chances of a person playing as a goblin combined with the chances of the life of any player character coming up plus the chance of the age of any NPC coming up?

[Dixieboy]

This raises an interesting question:
Which place has so sloppy adventurers that goblins get to live to old age?

[Mystic Muse]

This raises an interesting question:
Which place has so sloppy adventurers that goblins get to live to old age?

Sadieland I don't actually know if Goblins would live that long in Sadieland. I'll have to ask my friend.

[Foryn Gilnith]

It can affect psychology a lot. I'd do a hybrid of half-orc and halfling - monstrous short life, but Small-sized long life. middle age at 31, old age at 47, venerable at 62, 4d6 years of life after venerable.

[JeenLeen]

I believe most fantasy settings I've seen have them at about half a human's lifespan, so about 50 years max.

I checked Monster Manual I and it didn't have the info. Maybe some racial book that deals with goblins (if one exists), like how Races of the Wild goes into deeper detail with elves?

[Grumman]

Bhukas from Sandstorm are a goblinoid offshoot, so that's a place to start. It lists their age as adulthood at 14, middle age at 25, old age at 37 and venerable at 49.

[John Campbell]

About three rounds, on average.

[Tiktakkat]

Digging deep . . .

Monster Manual 1 (as in 1st edition)
"Goblins reach the age of 50 years or so."

PHBR10 The Complete Book of Humanoids (2nd edition)
Starting Age
Base Age 12 + 1d6

Maximum Age Range (Base + Variable) 40 + 1d20
Average Maximum Age 50

Middle Age (1/2 Base Max.) 20 years
Old Age (2/3 Base Max.) 27 years
Venerable (Base Max.) 40 years

[Mystic Muse]

okay. thank you. Now I have one other unrelated question.

What book/page are the wealth by level guidelines on?

[Tyndmyr]

okay. thank you. Now I have one other unrelated question.

What book/page are the wealth by level guidelines on?

DMG. I can never remember, so I'd point you at the index, it's in there. If I had to guess, I'd say around 135.

[Fhaolan]

If you go back to 2nd edition, the Complete Book of Humanoids have Goblins at this:

Middle Age: 20
Old: 27
Venerable: 40
Maximum Age: +1d20

When the age categories for other races were transcribed from 2nd edition to 3rd, most of the time the Middle Age and Venerable stayed the same, Old was averaged between them, and Maximum Age was changed to a more bell-curve like thing, so for 3.x it's probably:

Middle Age: 20
Old: 30
Venerable: 40
Maximum Age: +2d10

I was expecting to find this stuff in Savage Species for 3.x, but I couldn't find it.

[Mystic Muse]

DMG. I can never remember, so I'd point you at the index, it's in there. If I had to guess, I'd say around 135.

thanks. struggles to avoid saying something about DMPCs to annoy you

[taltamir]

my suggestion, rather then put years, put "young / adult / old / venerable / etc" on your character sheet...

or better yet, get with your DM and decide yourselves how long goblings live in your world... it doesn't have to be the same as any WOTC source...

i wonder, if goblins have no mentioned ages, does that mean they live forever unless killed? simple (biologically) easy to kill fast breeding critters... who never die unless kill. Actually that would be hillarious awesome.

[Mystic Muse]

:smallsigh: one other question I should ask.

are there any good aligned Goblin gods?

[Yuki Akuma]

No, but goblins don't have to worship goblin gods.

Just like a dwarf could worship Pelor if he liked.

[Mystic Muse]

okay thanks.

[Tiki Snakes]

Personally, I'd suspect that the goblin age figures take into account mostly consensus type information, basically 'when goblins actually die', and so on, rather than maximum biological age.

So, basically, a 30+ year old goblin is an Elder as far as Goblins are concerned, but in captivity (and a nice safely padded captivity with no small, loose or combustable items), they could reach human maximum ages with little problem.

It's just that goblins barely ever even approach dying of old age. :smallsmile:

[Elfin]

Well, in Tolkien goblins/orcs live at least hundreds of years, and possibly much longer; in my games I usually pin their max ages at 500 or so.
But that's just me; most D&D-esque fantasies seem to put their lifespans at around 50.

[Roderick_BR]

About three rounds, on average.
I'd say 6 seconds, actually. Adventurers need to spend a whole round to kill them. Unless a quickened spell is used...

[Kris Strife]

:smallsigh: one other question I should ask.

are there any good aligned Goblin gods?

A third party source had some of them worshipping a disgraced dwarven god of mercy. I believe it was called Gods as a matter of fact...

[drengnikrafe]

I'd say 6 seconds, actually. Adventurers need to spend a whole round to kill them. Unless a quickened spell is used...

I love how you kill baby goblins that are 0 seconds old when you begin your attack.

[LibraryOgre]

I love how you kill baby goblins that are 0 seconds old when you begin your attack.

Goblins are like Rosencrantz and Guildenstern (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosencrantz_and_Guildenstern_Are_Dead)... they have no independent existence, coming into being the moment they are necessary, and leaving the moment they are not.

[Optimystik]

No, but goblins don't have to worship goblin gods.

Just like a dwarf could worship Pelor if he liked.

To elaborate on this response; in a strict divine setting (e.g. Faerun), major deities can grant spells to anyone who venerates them appropriately and matches them alignment-wise. So you could have a goblin farming community worshipping Chauntea and their clerics getting spells from her.

In Eberron, faiths are very inclusive - e.g. the Sovereign Host practically grants spells to anyone that can pronounce their name half-right, and their clerics frequently annex the customs of even barbarous and savage tribal faiths.

In Greyhawk, a goblin merely has to dedicate himself to the cause of "goblin-ness."

[bosssmiley]

Goblins are like Rosencrantz and Guildenstern (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosencrantz_and_Guildenstern_Are_Dead)... they have no independent existence, coming into being the moment they are necessary, and leaving the moment they are not.

Schrodinger's Goblins? Haggenblarg's Uncertainty Principle?

That way madness lies!

[taltamir]

so... nobody else likes the idea of making them immortal unless killed? with the average goblin dying by the age of 15 due to adventurers... but a rare few high level casters have lived for hundreds of years?

[Yuki Akuma]

so... nobody else likes the idea of making them immortal unless killed? with the average goblin dying by the age of 15 due to adventurers... but a rare few high level casters have lived for hundreds of years?

No.

Goblinoids are meant to be natural creatures - they don't live forever.

[taltamir]

there are a lot of simple creatures that live "forever unless kill"...
even IRL, bacteria and some simple creatures only die if killed.

and it doesn't have to be forever than... lets say, 1500 years. slightly longer than an elf.

[Yuki Akuma]

Bacteria could be said to live forever because they're incredibly simple. They don't really have moving parts that can wear out.

You'll notice that there are no animals that live forever. There may be creatures that live forever (bacteria, maybe a few lucky plants), but no animals.

Edit: Also, another well-known fact about goblins is that they breed quickly. If they lived naturally for one and a half thousand years, they'd have overrun the planet by now, adventurers or no.

Kobolds, the other low-level pest race, live far longer than goblins and don't breed nearly as fast.

[belul_kegbreaker]

This reminds me of the last campaign I was in we were a party of two elves and a goblin. Well this was a fairly long winded campaign and with having a artificer and our own keep(two actually at this point). Eventually one of us decides to add up all the time we have been doing things and it happens that while our elves hair seemed to have harldy grew our spry little goblin friends was now months short of his grave:smalleek:. When we found this out our party dropped everything and started lichifying the goblin thankfully he was already a high lvl dread necro so it didnt take much.

Sorry felt I just had to share this story here to show just how important age can be sometimes.:smallamused:

[hamishspence]

According to Races of Faerun (3.0 source)

Goblinoids are pressed into service as adults at just 10 years of age. They rarely live to be older than 40, although some few lucky or wily individuals have been known to make it to 60 years of age,

and:

Goblinoids have the same life expectancy and age categories as half-orcs.

Aside from unique variants like Varags (MMIV) or Bhukas (Sandstorm), I suspect the same applies to all goblinoids.

[taltamir]

Bacteria could be said to live forever because they're incredibly simple. They don't really have moving parts that can wear out.

You'll notice that there are no animals that live forever. There may be creatures that live forever (bacteria, maybe a few lucky plants), but no animals.

Edit: Also, another well-known fact about goblins is that they breed quickly. If they lived naturally for one and a half thousand years, they'd have overrun the planet by now, adventurers or no.

Kobolds, the other low-level pest race, live far longer than goblins and don't breed nearly as fast.

all the more reason for then to be hunted down and killed routinely. if they weren't, they would over populate the world and drive everyone else to starvation as they battle over dwindling food resources...

but yea... I might be take it too far.

[Amphetryon]

That way madness lies!Madness? (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/804504/this_is_sparta_techno_remix/) MADNESS?

[Yuki Akuma]

Madness? (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/804504/this_is_sparta_techno_remix/) MADNESS?

Oh God hasn't that movie been out long enough for that to have gotten old yet?

[cheezewizz2000]

No.

Goblinoids are meant to be natural creatures - they don't live forever.

Actually, considering they were originally related to Brownies (at least in myth) I see no problems with them being immortal. A mate of mine runs goblins as fey, gives them DR1/cold iron and makes them immune to pain during the night (not that that gives any mechanical benefit): It makes for quite fun goblin-y encounters. No longer do they raid and pillage, they just sneak onto farms, pluck all the chickens, knock over the cows and open up the grain silos. In their encounters with adventurers they tend towards running away and throwing things (knives, forks, plates, chickens etc etc...).

[Yuki Akuma]

Actually, considering they were originally related to Brownies (at least in myth) I see no problems with them being immortal. A mate of mine runs goblins as fey, gives them DR1/cold iron and makes them immune to pain during the night (not that that gives any mechanical benefit): It makes for quite fun goblin-y encounters. No longer do they raid and pillage, they just sneak onto farms, pluck all the chickens, knock over the cows and open up the grain silos. In their encounters with adventurers they tend towards running away and throwing things (knives, forks, plates, chickens etc etc...).

Okay sure but those aren't traditional D&D goblins anymore, are they?

(Not that fey are generally immortal either. They just have longer lifespans than elves.)

[taltamir]

Okay sure but those aren't traditional D&D goblins anymore, are they?

(Not that fey are generally immortal either. They just have longer lifespans than elves.)

not the traditional gobbos, no... but they are certainly fun / cool.

[LibraryOgre]

According to the Complete Humanoids book, Goblins hit middle age at 20, Old at 27, venerable at 40 and most are dead by 50.

[Tanuki Tales]

Bacteria could be said to live forever because they're incredibly simple. They don't really have moving parts that can wear out.

You'll notice that there are no animals that live forever. There may be creatures that live forever (bacteria, maybe a few lucky plants), but no animals.

Edit: Also, another well-known fact about goblins is that they breed quickly. If they lived naturally for one and a half thousand years, they'd have overrun the planet by now, adventurers or no.

Kobolds, the other low-level pest race, live far longer than goblins and don't breed nearly as fast.

Well, what exactly do you classify as animals? There are breeds of jellyfish and Hydras that can theoretically live indefinitely. Though you'll probably handwave them as not being "complex" enough.

Plants on the other hand are very complex organisms and there are many kinds that can live indefinitely.

[Tiki Snakes]

so... nobody else likes the idea of making them immortal unless killed? with the average goblin dying by the age of 15 due to adventurers... but a rare few high level casters have lived for hundreds of years?

Actually, yes, I'm down with that. The idea that they are basically capable of not-dying-of-old-age in and of itself (or close enough so as to make it difficult to tell) is an interesting one. Given the dangerous nature of Goblin lives, habits, recreation and general enviroment, it'd still leave them with normal actual lifespans, because quite frankly the body can only take so much abuse before it simply ceases to function all together.

(By comparison, other creatures who live 100's of years by default would likely have more capability for healing and renewing themselves on a fundemental level, and 'immortal' creatures might easily live until forcefully killed.

[Coidzor]

Actually, considering they were originally related to Brownies (at least in myth) I see no problems with them being immortal. A mate of mine runs goblins as fey, gives them DR1/cold iron and makes them immune to pain during the night (not that that gives any mechanical benefit): It makes for quite fun goblin-y encounters. No longer do they raid and pillage, they just sneak onto farms, pluck all the chickens, knock over the cows and open up the grain silos. In their encounters with adventurers they tend towards running away and throwing things (knives, forks, plates, chickens etc etc...).

<_< Chicken infested goblin bbeg?

[ericgrau]

This raises an interesting question:
Which place has so sloppy adventurers that goblins get to live to old age?

By RAW at least 51% of goblins are neutral evil, but certainly not all of them. Interestingly enough less than 50% of orcs are chaotic evil. The SRD also says that only extremely zealous cities will execute people for being evil. Most try and jail them only for actual crimes.

Since goblins multiply like rabbits I'd assume they have a short lifespan. A google search shows estimates of around 30 years based on old material and similar monsters.

[Tawmis]

It depends on how close the goblins live to the Player Characters.

ZING! That's funny! :-)

[aboyd]

are there any good aligned Goblin gods?
If you go back to AD&D 1st edition, there is the god named Earth Dragon. It was worshiped by Goblins, and was neutral, I believe (but not a nice god -- a spirit that reveled in conquest and required sacrifices of good dragons). It comes from the Scourge of the Slave Lords modules. Not only goblins worship this spirit -- any activity involving earth, stone, and the underground is pleasing to the Earth Dragon, so the cult is equally popular among farmers, miners, and masons.

Kikanuti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kikanuti#Kikanuti) is a neutral good goddess of the desert goblins -- she's responsible for goblins mating like rabbits and reproducing so much. She's from the 3.5 edition Sandstorm book.

If you need more, the lawful neutral god Meriadar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meriadar) comes close to what you need. That god is like a flesh golem in the sense that he/she/it appears to be made from many parts of many creatures. There is a bit of elf, goblin, and so on in his features. That god is not on good terms with most goblinoid gods, as his stated goal is to teach goblinoids to blend with other races. The portfolio includes patience, respect, open-mindedness, and crafting.

[shadow_archmagi]

Dwarf Fortress goblins live forever AND constantly kidnap members of other races to supplement their numbers, but their numbers dwindle due to their tendency to murder each other.

[Grumman]

By RAW at least 51% of goblins are neutral evil, but certainly not all of them. Interestingly enough less than 50% of orcs are chaotic evil. The SRD also says that only extremely zealous cities will execute people for being evil.
They might not execute people for being evil, but it's not like they wouldn't execute people for being mindflayers, or trolls. It's just a question of whether they encounter enough peaceful goblins to not have a "shoot on sight" policy.

[Optimystik]

Well, what exactly do you classify as animals? There are breeds of jellyfish and Hydras that can theoretically live indefinitely. Though you'll probably handwave them as not being "complex" enough.

However complex they are, equating them with vertebrates like goblins is just silly.

Also, I think hamish nailed this one.

[elonin]

One or two rounds once near pc's.

[taltamir]

However complex they are, equating them with vertebrates like goblins is just silly.

Also, I think hamish nailed this one.

in a world of magic?

[Sintanan]

My group I'm a player in has jokingly adopted a "Six-year plan" for the life of the goblins, and the DM has even worked into complete racial fluff.

Our Goblins:
* Goblins live to a maximum of 5+1d3 years.
* Goblins are considered adults at their first birthday. If the goblin is breaking the family "business" so-to-speak, they usually are a "cursed child" (see below) and are ready for adventuring at 2 years old.
* Goblins reproduce in litters of 2-4, with 2 being the norm. Large litters are possible and there is the possibility of a "cursed" child (one born without a twin).
* Goblins have developed an advanced hereditary memory in which all memories of the parents are passed to the children (which explains the sage-y goblins... their family line traces back to scholars).
* Goblins carry a child-like curiosity. In fact the saying that best fits is "curiosity killed the cat goblin."


There's a few other quirks, but this mostly covers goblins as a whole. Surprisingly, playing a goblin (or a family line :smallwink:) tends to be quite fun when the games lean towards humor.

[taltamir]

with those rules the goal of every goblin should be "adventure until you gain 1 wizard level, then reproduce ASAP with as many female goblins as possible"...

pretty soon you will have tons of goblins being born as level N wizards.

[Tanuki Tales]

However complex they are, equating them with vertebrates like goblins is just silly.

Also, I think hamish nailed this one.

The point is, in a physical universe that currently lacks any form of mystical element there are living entities that possess a form of biological immortality. So if it can occur, even on mostly simple levels, in a non-mystical universe, then in a universe where pure thought applied correctly can warp the very fabric of space time, then its not so far fetched to put forward the concept that Goblins live indefinitely unless physically killed.

I mean, just look at the Tetramorph.