CL * CL type spells

[taltamir]

So, I noticed that haste lets you affect CL targets, for up to CL rounds, each getting a set bonus that doesn't change no matter your level (so, a constant)... this makes haste a spell whose power increases quadratically. with the formulae total spell power = CL*CL*Constant
(although, the size limitation of a party becomes an issue, you could use it to great effect in large scale combat).

This made me think, what other spells are there that do that?

[Signmaker]

Chained (Insert Spell Subject to Chain Spell here)

[Mando Knight]

this makes haste a spell whose power increases exponentially.

Quadratically, not exponentially. Its power, as you've described it, is directly proportional to the square of the caster level.

[taltamir]

Chained (Insert Spell Subject to Chain Spell here)

very nice.


Quadratically, not exponentially. Its power, as you've described it, is directly proportional to the square of the caster level.

oops. yes you are right. Thanks for the correction (no sarcasm, I mean it)

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Chained Greater Magic Weapon. CL targets*CL duration*a bonus based on CL.

[PhoenixRivers]

A few symbols are open ended, making large scale combat use invaluable. The one the does 3d6 Strength Damage, for example, is limited only by time, and can neutralize entire brigades of cavalry (horses can no longer bear the fully loaded rider and barding), render most armies with some paralyzed troops, and the rest practically ineffectual, with severely reduced accuracy and damage.

The only limit on how many people can be affected? How many move across it in the time frame.

[taltamir]

can you put them on a bouncy ball and throw it on people like xykon did in OOTS?

[PhoenixRivers]

can you put them on a bouncy ball and throw it on people like xykon did in OOTS?

I don't see why not, provided you can find the RAW stats for a bouncy ball.

[2xMachina]

Why not stick it onto an arrow and fire it across the entire army? Range penalty hurts a little, but targeting and hitting an empty square the other side is not too hard.

Symbol of Insanity? Whee! Instantaneous crazy army.

[taltamir]

I don't see why not, provided you can find the RAW stats for a bouncy ball.


Why not stick it onto an arrow and fire it across the entire army? Range penalty hurts a little, but targeting and hitting an empty square the other side is not too hard.

Symbol of Insanity? Whee! Instantaneous crazy army.

its the ultimate weapon! a DnD nuke...

[Sliver]

Dungeonscape has rubber balls.

[Tyndmyr]

can you put them on a bouncy ball and throw it on people like xykon did in OOTS?

Even better, you can put them on say, a headband. Those who look at you suffer.

Im sure as an enemy, you can find some way to make people look at you.

[taltamir]

how many can you fit on a headband at once?
forget a basilisk stare... you look at me, you make 10 saves or die/suck/lose.

[Tyndmyr]

how many can you fit on a headband at once?
forget a basilisk stare... you look at me, you make 10 saves or die/suck/lose.

Dunno. It has to be both visible and legible at 60 feet. If it's too small to see, presumably it doesn't work. If you're worried about this, you could strap a banner to your back.

Obviously, the given trigger of "looks at the rune" is preferred.

But yeah, it's like a vastly better version of a gaze attack. Ignores action economy, and allows you to walk through armies, carving a path of death, without bothering to use spells and such, so you can focus on those few people who make their save.

I imagine somebody, somewhere, will try to justify this somehow working with mirror image.

[taltamir]

ok so basically... take a full plate fighter.
put one big symbol on the front of his armor. one big one on the back of his armor. strap some banners to his back, each one with a large symbol... and have him charge at the enemy?

I really really want to try this in a simulated war right now. I think we just invalidated / rewrote the entire system of warfare for DnD world!

[Brendan]

If it was "the enemy must read it", then a barbarian would move up a tier or so due to that excellent immunity. they would never be able to read it. thus, it is simply looking at it.

[taltamir]

If it was "the enemy must read it", then a barbarian would move up a tier or so due to that excellent immunity. they would never be able to read it. thus, it is simply looking at it.

yes... doesn't it actually specify that a person who knows how to read can "look" at a book without "reading" and thus avoid triggering sepia snake sigil?

lemme look it up:

from snake sigil:
Simply seeing the enspelled text is not sufficient to trigger the spell; the subject must deliberately read it


from symbol of death:
As a default, a symbol of death is triggered whenever a creature does one or more of the following, as you select: looks at the rune; reads the rune; touches the rune; passes over the rune; or passes through a portal bearing the rune. Regardless of the trigger method or methods chosen, a creature more than 60 feet from a symbol of death can’t trigger it (even if it meets one or more of the triggering conditions, such as reading the rune). Once the spell is cast, a symbol of death’s triggering conditions cannot be changed.

In this case, “reading” the rune means any attempt to study it, identify it, or fathom its meaning. Throwing a cover over a symbol of death to render it inoperative triggers it if the symbol reacts to touch. You can’t use a symbol of death offensively; for instance, a touch-triggered symbol of death remains untriggered if an item bearing the symbol of death is used to touch a creature. Likewise, a symbol of death cannot be placed on a weapon and set to activate when the weapon strikes a foe.

Other symbols (like symbol of insanity) work like symbol of death...
So the trick is to set it to "look at" instead of "read" and then you don't have a problem with either size or barbarians.

[term1nally s1ck]

They cost a LOT in terms of components though.

Symbol of Sleep is pretty nice though...30 minutes of sleep minimum, and an average of 105...for 1k, and no HP limit.

Symbol of Insanity is just awesome, and no HP limit...and Symbol of Fear makes everyone run away, and then they have to make another save when they get within 60 feet.

[2xMachina]

The symbols trigger can be when you pass over it. Shouldn't be imba to change to walk under it right?

Too bad the range is still 60 feet. Wonder if we could change the range of the symbols to trigger condition only? Otherwise....

use Permanency + Nailed to the Sky epic spell on it. Whee! Auto insanity/pain/sleep/... to everyone in 24 hours.

EDIT: Still can stick it on the ceiling. Plain sight + Prominent, except no one ever looks up.

[Jack_Simth]

Well, the Symbol also permits you to define other trigger conditions - so you could, in theory, make one that says "immediately" as the trigger condition, and then if it's permanencied, it's running for caster level * 10 minutes, and then does nothing for ten minutes, and then runs again. The caster can never trigger it themselves, and the caster is always immune, but otherwise? Meh.

There's also other practical limits - it can't affect you if you're out of range, even if you meet the trigger condition - so if it's nailed to the sky, and someone looks at it, nothing of note happens.

Then there's also that pesky clause that it can't be used offensively. If I've got an active Symbol, and move the symbol so that it's area overlaps you, how is that not attempting to use the Symbol offensively?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I am very surprised that the most evocative abjuration spell has yet to be mentioned. Yea for Maw of Chaos and its incredibly silly Xd6 for X rounds plus daze!

[Prime32]

If it was "the enemy must read it", then a barbarian would move up a tier or so due to that excellent immunity. they would never be able to read it. thus, it is simply looking at it.

Symbols are particularly useful if, say, you're fighting elves, you write it in Elvish and none of your men speak Elvish. :smallwink:

[deuxhero]

Dungeonscape has rubber balls.

Didn't The Giant work on that book? Wouldn't surprise me if he was the one to add it with that scene in mind.

[Tyrmatt]

Didn't The Giant work on that book? Wouldn't surprise me if he was the one to add it with that scene in mind.

Rich did indeed write a significant part of Dungeonscape. It's where the acid-breathing shark came from as well. Since Dungeonscape follows a world where adventuring is a career choice, you can see a lot of parallels with the way he writes OotS

[Ernir]

Not quite what you seem to have been thinking of originally, but... stacked Consumptive Fields.

:smalleek:

[Zaydos]

Mass Whelm from PHBII. Do CL (max 10)d6 subdual damage to CL targets. Save negates and so not too good except for Vow of Nonviolence Beguilers but still.