can someone help clarify lesser aasimar?

[taltamir]

I see that in players guide to faerun they have "lesser planetouched" template. those remove the +1 LA on a planetouched race, instead changing the type from outsider (native) to humanoid (planetouched).

This makes lesser aasimar with its +2 wis +2 con very attractive. @ LA0.

An interesting aspect of the chance is that they are now susceptible to spells that affect humanoids or outsiders. as an example, they could be affected by both charm person, and banishment.

I thought native outsiders could not be banished. So does that mean a lesser planetouched can now be banished and runs the risk of being banished?

Also, what about their traits like darkvision, are any of those lost?

[Tadanori Oyama]

They basically lose anything supernatural. They aren't native outsiders, they are humanoids so no banishing and no special immunities or abilities (so vision is gone, yeah). I believe they retain the ability to use Light once per day.

[taltamir]

They basically lose anything supernatural. They aren't native outsiders, they are humanoids so no banishing and no special immunities or abilities (so vision is gone, yeah). I believe they retain the ability to use Light once per day.

the book explicitly says that they CAN be banished. yet that they are not outsiders... which makes no sense, since native outsiders cannot be banished.

[Siosilvar]

This makes lesser aasimar with its +2 wis +2 con very attractive. @ LA0.

It's +2 Wis and +2 Cha, not Constitution.

[Asbestos]

the book explicitly says that they CAN be banished. yet that they are not outsiders... which makes no sense, since native outsiders cannot be banished.

The book is wrong? Because if they're native... where are they being banished to? Two blocks over?

[Flickerdart]

Dismissal and Banishment both work only on Extraplanar creatures. At no point is the Lesser Aasimar Extraplanar (unless it uses Plane Shift or similar), so it cannot be Dismissed or Banished. Note that the creature is sent to its home plane anyway, so even if the Lesser Planetouched was a valid target, it wouldn't DO anything. The spells don't only work on Outsiders, but any extraplanar creatures, so the clause doesn't actually make any sense.

[Tadanori Oyama]

The book is wrong? Because if they're native... where are they being banished to? Two blocks over?

I suppose if you banish them than they'll reappear somewhere else on the same plane at random. Which would make for a pretty good escape plan really.

[Curmudgeon]

An Aasimar Sorcerer get both a primary casting stat boost and access to all sorts of Alter Self cheese because of their Outsider type. Being Humanoid (planetouched) shortens the reins on that abuse potential.

[Flickerdart]

An Aasimar Sorcerer get both a primary casting stat boost and access to all sorts of Alter Self cheese because of their Outsider type. Being Humanoid (planetouched) shortens the reins on that abuse potential.
But an Aasimar Sorcerer is also a whole spell level behind a Lesser Tiefling Wizard, and when he's Altering Self into weak Outsiders, the Wizard has access to much better toys.

[Kylarra]

But an Aasimar Sorcerer is also a whole spell level behind a Lesser Tiefling Wizard, and when he's Altering Self into weak Outsiders, the Wizard has access to much better toys.
LA +1 can be bought off at level 3, so eh, he's a bit behind early on, but afterwards just fine.

[Flickerdart]

LA +1 can be bought off at level 3, so eh, he's a bit behind early on, but afterwards just fine.
Afterwards, Alter Self stops mattering. Polycheese still lets you grab Outsider forms, but there's a much better assortment available for the Wizard than there was with Alter Self, and by Shapecheese none of this matters.

[deuxhero]

They also lack weapon proficiencies (all martial, from the outsider type) that are handy for accessing some prcs,

[Pluto]

Afterwards, Alter Self stops mattering. Polycheese still lets you grab Outsider forms,
Nope.

This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin.
This is why Tieflings make neat gishes.

[Flickerdart]

Nope.
By "you" I meant the Aasimar. You will note that I say the Wizard's expanded selection makes this largely irrelevant.

[taltamir]

The book is wrong? Because if they're native... where are they being banished to? Two blocks over?

yes, it is a pretty nonsensical thing for the book to say, my problem is that it is the primary and only source of said mechanic. I guess I could work out something with my DM to be more specific.

from the player's guide to faerun:
P190: Lesser versions... basically it says that having a lesser version means that every being of said race has less power than what was originally designated. And have no LA as a result.
The DM is advised that they are no different then other members of said races, instead, it is an alteration to the world and setting where every member of said race is the "lesser" variant.

P191 describes the lesser planetouched:

Lesser Planetouched
All less planetouched have the following racial trait in common, in addition to all the racial traits detailed elsewhere in this book

* Planetouched: Planetouched are humanoids (not outsiders) with the planetouched subtype. They are susceptible to spells and effects that specifically target both humanoids or outsiders. Charm person works against them, and so does banishment. This trait replaces the outsider entry in each planetouched description.

that is word for word all it has to say about them. That is the ONLY source for the existence of lesser aasimar; it doesn't specify anything about aasimar directly, just about planetouched in general..
Lesser Aasimar is made by taking the Aasimar and applying the lesser planetouched modification to it.

So what I am trying to figure out is how to apply it.
Firstly, the modifcation means no LA, and it means that type is now humanoid (planetouched)... the problem is, that they explicitly state that they are susceptable to both banishment and charm person... they are treated as outsiders and as humanoids by every spell that targets one of those.
It specifies nothing about other changes... do the Aasimar keep their energy resistance to acid, cold, and lightening? do they keep their martial training for being outsiders?
the description does state that said trait is "in addition to all the racial traits detailed elsewhere in the book"... so it would seem that they do keep their reistances, etc...

This basically makes no sense.
I started this thread to basically ask the experts...
What are the traits of a lesser aasimar. specifically.

[Foryn Gilnith]

They lose the Outsider type and everything associated with it. So no darkvision, no martial weapons, no conditional shield proficiency.

Humanoid (planetouched)
+2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma.
Medium size.
An aasimar’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Racial Skills: Aasimars have a +2 racial bonus on Spot andListen checks.
Daylight 1/day
Resistance to acid 5, cold 5, and electricity 5.
Automatic Languages: Common, Celestial. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling,
Sylvan.
Favored Class: Paladin.

Lesser Aasimar can be banished. So can humans. Anything with the (extraplanar) subtype is vulnerable to banishment. On the Material Plane, Aasimar do not have the subtype and cannot be banished. On other planes, they can be targeted by Banishment.

[Thurbane]

+2 to two ability scores, no ability penalties, LA +0? Smells like mozzarella. Or maybe FR limburger.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Yes, Lesser Aasimar is renowned. Along with Shivering Touch, Celerity, Genesis, Ur-Priest, Simulacrum, the Sarrukh, Dragonwrought, Candles of Invocation, Incantatrix, Divine Metamagic, Dweomerkeeper, Cancer Mage, and Ice Assassin. Well, Lesser Aasimar isn't quite on their level, but you get the point.

I prefer Lesser Chaond and Lesser Zenithri myself.

[Tengu_temp]

Lesser Tiefling is no less notorious. Show me a better race for a wizard.

[deuxhero]

Human? Strongheart Halfling? Gnome (for illusionist sub level)?

[Tengu_temp]

+2 to your main caster stat is better than an extra feat. Gnome substitution levels might be worth it, but I forgot what exactly they give you. Same deal with Grey Elf substitution levels - it's another LA 0 race with +2 int, but suffers from -2 con.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Dragonwrought Venerable Kobold? +3 to a main casting stat.

[deuxhero]

+2 to your main caster stat is better than an extra feat. Gnome substitution levels might be worth it, but I forgot what exactly they give you. Same deal with Grey Elf substitution levels - it's another LA 0 race with +2 int, but suffers from -2 con.

Strongheart Halfling also makes you harder to hit, let's you carry more (small sized items have a greater weight reduction from medium than the carry reduction from medium) and other benefits I forget.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

+2 to your main caster stat is better than an extra feat. Gnome substitution levels might be worth it, but I forgot what exactly they give you. Same deal with Grey Elf substitution levels - it's another LA 0 race with +2 int, but suffers from -2 con.Doesn't matter with Faerie Mysteries Initiate, which is only available to Elves. And the bonus feat matters for feat-heavy builds like Cindy(metamagic abuse Orb of Fire) that don't gain much of anything for the boosted casting stat, while a Strongheart Halfling's small size adds an additional +1 to touch attacks. Or go Dwarf for Runesmith. There's actually a lot of reasons not to take Lesser Planetouched at the higher cheese levels.

[Roderick_BR]

LA +1 can be bought off at level 3, so eh, he's a bit behind early on, but afterwards just fine.
I think he meant the late level that all sorcerers have compared to wizards. And this aasimar being commented is the LA 0 one.

[Foryn Gilnith]

An Aasimar Sorcerer get both a primary casting stat boost and access to all sorts of Alter Self cheese because of their Outsider type. Being Humanoid (planetouched) shortens the reins on that abuse potential.


But an Aasimar Sorcerer is also a whole spell level behind a Lesser Tiefling Wizard, and when he's Altering Self into weak Outsiders, the Wizard has access to much better toys.

That particular tangent was discussing "true" Aasimars.

[taltamir]

They lose the Outsider type and everything associated with it. So no darkvision, no martial weapons, no conditional shield proficiency.

Humanoid (planetouched)
+2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma.
Medium size.
An aasimar’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Racial Skills: Aasimars have a +2 racial bonus on Spot andListen checks.
Daylight 1/day
Resistance to acid 5, cold 5, and electricity 5.
Automatic Languages: Common, Celestial. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling,
Sylvan.
Favored Class: Paladin.

Lesser Aasimar can be banished. So can humans. Anything with the (extraplanar) subtype is vulnerable to banishment. On the Material Plane, Aasimar do not have the subtype and cannot be banished. On other planes, they can be targeted by Banishment.

thank you... that is still a very, VERY nice list of abilities. especially for a +0 race...
especially since I am looking to make a dual progression cleric / warlock / eldrich desciple. So +2 to wis +2 to cha is beautiful.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

By the way, have you considered Favored Soul?

[taltamir]

By the way, have you considered Favored Soul?

you know, it did not occur to me that favored soul would make me less MAD... I could dump wisdom and focus entirely on charisma (and dex, and con, and a good dose of int)...

although they are a level behind on casting compared to clerics, and have no undead turning. The eldrich disciple abilities, like healing blast, all work off of turn attempts. And that puts my divine casting at 3+LA levels behind vs 2+LA for being cleric.
I would need to make some modifications to the character history, but it might be a good approach. lemme think on it for a bit.

I said I'd get right on making the character so you could review it, but right afterwards my parents invited me over for new years... I just got back though so I will make it now.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Forgot about the Turning, sorry.

[taltamir]

to be honest, making a mad character feels oddly good. I feel all warm inside, having a wide array of stats instead of a series of 8 and 18s... still all even numbers though :(