d20 Modern/Future/Apocalypse

[Manave_E_Sulanul]

I'm thinking of running a Post-Apocalyptic adventure and I'm wondering what the opinion of people is about the d20 Modern/Future/Apocalypse sets. I like what I see online, but I don't like the prices, even for used texts. Is it so rare for a good price because its good or its limited publication? o.O

[Crow]

I thought it was pretty good. It's not amazing or anything, but similar enough to 3.5 to make learning easy.

I found mine dirt cheap, used on amazon.

[Zincorium]

Rare because it had a very limited audience. Good enough game, despite borrowing a wee bit too much from D&D, but there are just too many competitors that have established positions in that market.

If you can't find a decent price for them used, don't worry too much, there are specific systems for any one genre/idea you care to name, and several generics if you want flexibility. Mutants and Masterminds is an excellent generic d20 system, if you're into that sort of thing.

Edit: If you can find the Dark Matter D20 setting book, and like X-files/conspiracy type stuff, I'd say that it's worth the price of new. It also has a glow in the dark cover, which is something we don't see enough of.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I enjoy the system greatly, I highly recommend even the cost of new, and wouldn't pass up the chance to get them. d20 modern allows for multiple genres and types of games, even fantasy (like D&D itself) with simple rules that are easy to get the hang of. I have all of the d20 books but Past and Urban Arcana, but I plan on getting those as well.

[mabriss lethe]

some of the cost can be eliminated since,just like 3.5, there's a d20 Modern SRD.

http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/Home.php

[Swordgleam]

If you don't want to shell out for a new system and have 4e, I can testify that it works just fine for post-apoc.

[Zincorium]

@Swordgleam:
That would seem to require quite a bit of work to be worth using- if you can post/link what you did, it'd be useful.

On supplements: Urban Arcana is a mishmash of 3.0 with D20 modern- if you own the components that went into it, you pretty much don't use it. Strangely, D20 Past is useful for anything between straight fantasy and the 1970's, so there's a good argument to be made for getting it. Weapons locker wasn't particularly impressive (if you're looking for that sort of thing, Ultramodern Firearms is better, IMO), nor was Apocalypse. Cyber is very specific in what sort of games it helps out in, and it really requires Future to work at all, but if you're interested in cyberpunk it's easier than buying and learning another system.

For plain old D20 Modern, it's best to walk in with the attitude that things are going to need some house rules- my personal pet peeve is that shotguns are universally weaker than any similar gun, for no coherent reason, so upping the damage or lowering cost means more useful variety for the players.

[Swordgleam]

I didn't really make any new rules, except for statting a couple firearms. Well, and house ruling low magic, but the DMG2 rules for running low/no magic games seem pretty similar to what I ended up doing.

And then the non-medieval stuff, like nuclear generators or the live rail of an abandoned subway, don't really need stats all that often. Just "How much damage does it do if you make it hurt you" and that can be solved by grabbing a handful of dice.

It could be that my post-apoc setting is very different from your idea, though. I'd have to know more about what you want to give better examples/suggestions.

[Sebastian]

If you are interested RPGobjects made a un-official revison of d20 modern called modern20 (http://www.rpgobjects.com/index.php?c=product&p_id=323) it looks interesting and should even be fully compatible with modern 20.

There is also a bundle, base book + post-apocalyptic book at 12$ (probably download only, tho)

[SurlySeraph]

On supplements: Urban Arcana is a mishmash of 3.0 with D20 modern- if you own the components that went into it, you pretty much don't use it. Strangely, D20 Past is useful for anything between straight fantasy and the 1970's, so there's a good argument to be made for getting it. Weapons locker wasn't particularly impressive (if you're looking for that sort of thing, Ultramodern Firearms is better, IMO), nor was Apocalypse. Cyber is very specific in what sort of games it helps out in, and it really requires Future to work at all, but if you're interested in cyberpunk it's easier than buying and learning another system.

Weapons Locker is pretty much pointless, it's almost entirely weapons with new names with identical stats to the weapons in core. I liked Apocalypse, though it's not amazing. Cyber didn't do much for me; it's got some interesting things, but most of it is fairly dull. There's also Future Tech, which makes a lot of stuff in core obsolete (Masterwork weapons, for example) and allows for considerably more min-maxing by screwing with weapon properties - which may be a good thing, depending on your group. I can't comment on the rest.


For plain old D20 Modern, it's best to walk in with the attitude that things are going to need some house rules- my personal pet peeve is that shotguns are universally weaker than any similar gun, for no coherent reason, so upping the damage or lowering cost means more useful variety for the players.

There were some great house rules in the WotC forums, that may or may not have been destroyed in the archive clearing. I'll see if I can find them.

EDIT: Here, (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19877042/Useful_D20_modern_links) but most of the best links seem to be dead. Damn.

[Manave_E_Sulanul]

I had never heard of Modern 20, thanks, I will definitely look into it!

I am most interested in it specifically for the post apocalyptic stuff; I am very inspired by Fallout 3 and how well the d20 system sort of emulates the ridiculous damage thresholds et cetera that I have become fond of.

I had looked at the SRD and found some PDF stuff online but I'm something of a bibliophile. 3.5 is one thing, the SRD is so elegant and quickly searchable but I find myself greatly frustrated when trying to use other online resources at the table.

I am bookmarking that useful links section though! It looks as the name implies.

One more question I am wondering about though, since d20 past was brought up.

Typically for non-D&D Sci-Fi and Fantasy I like Alternity (Google it, if you arn't familiar. Its wonderful, but everyone is pretty damn squishy. Bullets kill...). Is there any specific advantage to d20 past, other than its going to have the same sort of ridiculously badass normal style toughness attached?

[Zincorium]

Hey, another Alternity player! I was starting to get the impression they'd all died of old age. I've got a complete set of books in storage and no one to play with.

D20 Past is a thin, paperback book with chapters on various historical eras- it's a supplement for D20 Modern, same as D20 Future and D20 Apocalypse. If you're not playing in the eras it covers, it really won't add much for you.

D20 Modern overall is a lot deadlier than D&D, given that the damage threshold will be routinely exceeded and the save isn't trivial for most characters, even as you get higher in level. Essentially, instead of casters getting save or die spells, everyone who can do a lot of damage gets them. And since it's rare for anyone to wear armor, ambushes becoming slaughters isn't uncommon.

[Manave_E_Sulanul]

Die of old age? Nah, we have a small group up at where I live that plays but we play a little lossey-goosey with some of the rules; for most of us our first system was 3.0 so its a lot of traveling to the past...

[bosssmiley]

I am most interested in it specifically for the post apocalyptic stuff; I am very inspired by Fallout 3 and how well the d20 system sort of emulates the ridiculous damage thresholds et cetera that I have become fond of.

You want need to read:

Gamma World (its' 4E was a d20 system game),
Mutant Future (old D&D turned into a Gamma World clone) or
After the Bomb (the Palladium system post-apoc game).

Only these bring True Scientific Realism(TM) and hot sexy Spidergoat action to your post-apoc gaming. All else is mere dabbling in the shallow end of the mutagen pool. :smallwink:

[Uin]

Edit: If you can find the Dark Matter D20 setting book, and like X-files/conspiracy type stuff, I'd say that it's worth the price of new. It also has a glow in the dark cover, which is something we don't see enough of.I concur, d20 Dark Matter is a classy publication.

[jmbrown]

# After the Bomb (the Palladium system post-apoc game).


With mutant anthropomorphic animals set in the TMNT universe.

[Chaelos]

d20 Modern has its charms, but I really dislike certain design choices in the character advancement scheme--especially (in my experience with the system) those that render melee-based classes the most worthwhile in the game. Also, all the weapons are more or less identical; the only difference in most of them is flavor. And nobody wears armor. And wealth is handled... very, very abstractly.

It's a fun system if you have a sufficiently wacky campaign to roleplay in, or if you want to try and capture the Buffyverse in a gaming experience. I think I prefer Call of Cthulhu to d20 Modern, but, hey, it never hurts to try new things.

[jmbrown]

d20 Modern has its charms, but I really dislike certain design choices in the character advancement scheme--especially (in my experience with the system) those that render melee-based classes the most worthwhile in the game. Also, all the weapons are more or less identical; the only difference in most of them is flavor. And nobody wears armor. And wealth is handled... very, very abstractly.

It's a fun system if you have a sufficiently wacky campaign to roleplay in, or if you want to try and capture the Buffyverse in a gaming experience. I think I prefer Call of Cthulhu to d20 Modern, but, hey, it never hurts to try new things.

The irony of d20 modern is that you probably don't want to play it in a modern setting. At least not one based on real life earth. You'll notice the default campaign settings are geared towards fantasy. The system also works well with pulp action (spies, A-team style mercenaries, gritty Watchmen-esque superheroes) but just like D&D if you're searching for realism you'll have to search elsewhere.

[Zincorium]

The irony of d20 modern is that you probably don't want to play it in a modern setting. At least not one based on real life earth. You'll notice the default campaign settings are geared towards fantasy. The system also works well with pulp action (spies, A-team style mercenaries, gritty Watchmen-esque superheroes) but just like D&D if you're searching for realism you'll have to search elsewhere.

Anything in the 'Action' section of the video rental store matches up with D20 Modern- if you're more of a 'suspense' or 'documentaries' guy, you'll have to find a system that suits your taste.

Jon Maclain from Die Hard, Marv from Sin City, whatsisname from the Transporter- these characters are what the system does well. They are difficult to kill, but still bleed a lot, they are capable of astounding acts of physical prowess, and they're excellent at both ranged and melee combat.

I can't name any RPGs off the top of my head that are realistic in the sense you're talking about. Certainly nothing D20 based. Realism requires a level of attention to detail that's pretty tiring when instead of a computer doing all the calculations, you have to look up tables and do the math yourself.

[Jimp]

GURPS or Unisystem for a more realistic system maybe? Unisystem worked well for me in a zombie apocalypse game.
D20 Modern is pretty good imo, it worked really well for an action packed cinematic style mecha game I used to run. Can't say I've ever used it for anything that requires a more down to earth approach.

[SurlySeraph]

World of Darkness is good for simple, relatively realistic modern stuff.

But if you want lots of detail and a post-apocalyptic world, you can't do better than Twilight 2013. Its base mechanic is clunky as hell, but everything else in the system is absolutely perfect. I once toyed with the idea of recalculating everything in it so it'd work with the d20 base mechanic, but didn't get very far.