help gestalt my barbarian?

[gallagher]

hey all

i have a barbarian, level 8, that needs gestalting. i was just told not an hour ago that the campaign is a gestalt game (starting in 2 days) and i agreed to be our fighting-class character. we have a rogue/wizard, a cleric/paladin who worships pelor (the one true god), and a fighter-scout who is doing ranged-weapons.

i was wondering how to make the uber-charger (it looks cool with a barbarian), if i can do it all at this level without taking levels of fighter, and what class/classes i should gestalt with?

we get to turn our lowest into an 18, so i got 18/16/16/13/12/9. 18 obviously becomes strength, and i pump that with my two points from leveling to 20. one of my 16s should be con, and i think that the other 16 should become dex. nothing is set yet, so all advice and strategy help is accepted and considered

[Sstoopidtallkid]

If you want to melee, you can't go wrong with Druid. Swordsage is also awesome, as are Scout and Rogue. Monk might work well, too. It really just depends on what you want to do.

[gallagher]

If you want to melee, you can't go wrong with Druid. Swordsage is also awesome, as are Scout and Rogue. Monk might work well, too. It really just depends on what you want to do.

well, i want to be the big mad damage dealer. if with shock trooper, i can make a full attack instead of just a standard attack at the end, i could potentially gestalt with a ranger and go TWF... could work out

[Siosilvar]

To get a full attack, you need the substitution level from Complete Champion that gives you pounce as a level 1 barbarian.

Also note that you can't Power Attack with light weapons.

[Roc Ness]

Hmmm. Well, to slightly contradict Sstoopidtallkid, you can't be a monk because they are lawful, and you can't be a druid (I'm guessing) because you have to be full melee guy. Swordsage is good, but how about try the Dragon Shaman or the Marshal? Both net you nifty auras (they include yourself), netting you heaps of Charisma to stuff as Marshal (one of them was damage on a charge, if I remember), and the Dragon Shaman also nets you some draconic abilities and the ability to breathe acid/fire/etc on your enemies every 1d4 rounds.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and you could use a swift hunter for gestalt as well.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

TWF isn't worth it, and Ranger is a poor choice to Gestalt with Barbarian. For a charger, you want Pounce(Spirit Lion Totem in CChamp is good), the biggest 2-handed weapon you can get, and something to guarantee you can charge every round. Monk, Scout, and Swordsage all do this well and give you stuff like skills and saves you don't get otherwise.

[Draz74]

Barbarian//Swordsage: d12 Hit Die, good BAB, all good saves, 6+Int skill points per level, not too MAD (pretty much the same as a normal Barbarian, except with a little more reward than usual for a high Wisdom), and combines melee awesomeness with ... more melee awesomeness.

It doesn't get much better than that.

The idea that Swordsages have to be Dex-based, and dump Strength, is a myth.

Depending on your maneuver selection, you can either keep pure Barbarian-flavor (pick from Tiger Claw, Stone Dragon, and the nonmagical bits of Desert Wind) or branch out and become more multifaceted (Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, and the magical stuff).

If ToB isn't available (:smallfrown:), then of course Druid is the most powerful option. Rogue sounds the most fun to me, though, except for that darn Will save.

Edit: Just saw the recommendation of Dragon Shaman. That does sound fun -- not optimal, but not bad either. Gives you an excuse to get high Charisma (which can lead to fun Barbarian tactics like Imperious Command), and at least it gets you a good Will save.

[Faleldir]

Dragonfire Adept could be fun, especially once you get a flight speed.

[mabriss lethe]

Binder is a good one for barbarian. since all of their powers are supernatural, you can activate them while raging if you need to. A good number of binder powers are passive, too. so you really don't have to worry with them.

[Gnaeus]

Druid is the best option mentioned. Having full casting on one side of gestalt is always helpful. Swordsage, with full initiator levels, is close second.

If you want to be a meleer and not have spells or maneuvers, a level adjusted race or templates works very well for a beatstick. For example (and I know someone can do better than this, but just to show the principle)
Barbarian 8//Half Ogre/Half Dragon any 3 class levels gives you huge bonuses to your stats, an elemental immunity, flight, and some other small bonuses.

[PinkysBrain]

Arcane/divine magic and raging doesn't combine well (if the optimal choice in any situation is to never rage that's a bit sad). Psionics and raging can combine ... but really Blade Magic is the goto choice for a barbarian gestalt, it also offers two good ways of breaking a frenzy.

Lion totem Barbarian 2/Fighter 4/Frenzied Berserker 2//Swordsage 8?

[Pluto]

I'd support Swordsage. Good skills, all good saves, the best maneuver options of anyone and compatability with rages.


Totemist would be my second choice: It provides a heap of very nice benefits to high-Constitution melee types. (Too many shiny things to list individually.) The only problem is that its weak Will save means you'd probably have to blow two feats on Steadfast Determination (PHB2) or two levels on the Resolute Fighter Alternate Class Feature (CChamp).

[Tyndmyr]

Barbarian//Bard is just fun. Singing gleefully as you hack your way through rows of bodies is all sorts of fun and games.

[Evard]

Well i skimmed through the posts and didn't see this but...Barbarian/Wizard ... why? true strike http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueStrike.htm and a few other spells like enlarge person ^ - ^

Note that true strike is personal so your friendly wizard/sorcerer can't cast it on you

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Well i skimmed through the posts and didn't see this but...Barbarian/Wizard ... why? true strike http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueStrike.htm and a few other spells like enlarge person ^ - ^

Note that true strike is personal so your friendly wizard/sorcerer can't cast it on you

But you can't cast spells while Raging, which he'll likely want to do at every opportunity.


Bard is indeed a fun choice, you'd get a lot of skill points/level, all good saves, and Inspire Courage combines well with a melee combatant. Plus your spells and skills will give you something to do when swinging a sword isn't the best course of action.

Using Druid will probably end up being the most powerful character. Wild Shaping into a large size creature, an animal companion that's probably just as powerful as your single-classed barbarian would have been, and spellcasting for long duration buffs, healing, and utility outside of combat. I'd probably take it a step further and go Druid 5/ Master of Many Forms 7/ Warshaper 4, then more MoMF and maybe a level of Nature's Warrior if you make it to 20. Use the Lion spiritual totem barbarian variant in Complete Champion to trade Fast Movement for Pounce. There are other barbarian variants (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#barbarianVariantTotemB arbarian), keep in mind that they are completely apart from the spiritual totem variants in CC. Wolf Totem is good because it gets Improved Trip, though I'd probably go with either Dragon Totem if you intend to stay single-classed Barbarian, or Bear Totem if you plan to use forms with Improved Grab. Starting out you'll be able to take the form of an Annis Hag, in one level you'll be able to use Cave Troll from MM3, which you should use until level 12 when you can take the form of a War Troll also in MM3. Take two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) if you can, and pick up Power Attack, Alertness, Endurance, Natural Bond, and Leap Attack starting out. Make your highest stats Con and Wis and get a Monk's Belt with a Wilding Clasp so you'll get your Wisdom bonus to AC when Wild Shaped. Try to get Armor of the Beast in Complete Champion asap, which won't count as wearing armor when Wild Shaped so you'll still get your Wis bonus, along with the Mantle of the Beast from that same book. If you can pick up the Ring of the Beast as well you can take War Troll form at level 11, but Cave Troll will be good enough until then.

[Demons_eye]

Totemist, they are awesome and work well with barbarians. Otherwise scout for skirmish and skills.

[Hida Reju]

Well Swordsage has already been mentioned once so no need to harp on the ToB classes any more.

To be honest I would think about what you want to do, is it hit things or something else?

Barbarian is unique because it really reduces your ability to do more than hit things while under Raging conditions.

My recommendation is to go plain fighter if you do not go with at ToB class. You get better skills with barb, Better HP, Better class abilities but lose out on feats that can get you Ubercharging fast. Plus the Weapon master chain is not bad if you have other things to do with it.

[Thurbane]

How about the feat variant Rogue? You'll get a sackload of skill points, and a lot of Fighter feats.

[Sharkman1231]

Cleric isn't bad, you can get fun domain powers like FoM or smite. Also healing spells.

[AirGuitarGod32]

I second swordsage. Hell! focus on Tiger Claw and raise serious hell.

and I also second Totemist. Judging from the Soulmelds in cahoots with Rage, that'll hurt people

and I suggest either Wildshape Ranger for wildshape in Rage or Scout, because skirmish+rage+pounce=nearly broken damage stacking

[Jack_Simth]

Druid. Put the 9 in Dex, the 18 in Wis, 16 Con, 16 Str.

Reasons?

Well,
1) Power Curves - the Druid, as a Full Caster, has a power curve that goes up pretty fast, but starts comparatively low - the Barbarian, as a melee class, has a power curve that starts fairly high but doesn't end up as high. Merging the two means you do well at any level...
2) Wildshape gets you Pounce (many of the cats, as well as some of the dinosaurs) which goes well with an Ubercharger build. Oh yes, and you don't need to trade away the speed boost for Lion Totem Barbarian.
3) Druid makes a better team player, in that you've got lots of boosting spells for your fellow party members.
4) Rage stacks with Wildshape.

[Lycanthromancer]

Well Swordsage has already been mentioned once so no need to harp on the ToB classes any more.

To be honest I would think about what you want to do, is it hit things or something else?

Barbarian is unique because it really reduces your ability to do more than hit things while under Raging conditions.

My recommendation is to go plain fighter if you do not go with at ToB class. You get better skills with barb, Better HP, Better class abilities but lose out on feats that can get you Ubercharging fast. Plus the Weapon master chain is not bad if you have other things to do with it.Psychic warrior is better all the way around. Gestalted with barbarian, all you lose out on (compared to gestalting with fighter) is tower shield proficiency (which you wouldn't use anyway), some fighter variants which usually aren't all that great (although dungeoncrasher is an unfortunate loss), and like 3 feats over the course of 20 levels. Psywar gives a great deal of flexibility both in and out of battle, and crafting a psychoactive skin of proteus would let you do something equivalent to a druid with wild shape, and you could get a psicrystal you could turn into a buff-buddy of doom. I do believe there's a feat that allows a barbarian to use abilities which require concentration (don't remember what it is, however), so you could manifest while you rage.

Of course, a well-optimized bardbarian would be incredible (Snowflake Wardance and Dragonfire Inspiration!), as would any of the ToB classes.

A high-Int barbarian would get some mileage out of factotum (but then, who doesn't?), though not nearly as much as any full-caster class would.

I made a barbarian//dragonfire adept for the wife of a friend, using Quicken Breath and Entangling Exhalation. You're immune to your own breath weapon, so you can Quicken/Entangle your fire-breath, then run in and chop-chop-chop the debuffed foes down. Maybe artfully mix in a couple of totemist levels and a swordsage level or two, and you could have a ton of tricks that synergize insanely well.

[Hida Reju]

Well if there is a feat to be able to manifest powers while raging then it would be cool to do Psi Warrior but without that....

You could buff up before the fight and burn link power to get off some stuff prior to rage "Example: Vigor/Force screen" but then its still feels meh when you could be using maneuvers or getting feats. Does make you more awesome without raging though hands down.

[EnnPeeCee]

If you want to focus on hitting stuff with a weapon, but still like the idea of druid, might I suggest the Hunter Druid variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druid)? It gives you fast movement speed as well as favored enemy progression, which would likely benefit a guy who wants to hit things.

[Hida Reju]

Now that I think about it Ranger is not a bad choice.

Get the ACF to lose the spells and get some feats to help out.

Better skills

Decent progression on Favored enemies that I see no reason not allow when raging.

Two weapon fighting without having to dump Str at all? Not optimal but still an option. Or you get some Archery feats in case its out of range for charging/flying.

[PinkysBrain]

Well if there is a feat to be able to manifest powers while ragingExpanded knowledge schism.

[Eloel]

Try being a Wizard. on the 2nd side
Good Fort, d12 hit dice, full BAB, random stuff like Fast Movement & Uncanny Dodge.
While at it, go for the variant Barbarian for archery feats & FE in place of Rage, and you can be the best arcane archer ever - without even using the class.

That's only one way to play a barbarian in gestalt - there are MANY ways...

[Evard]

But you can't cast spells while Raging, which he'll likely want to do at every opportunity.

Yes but he can cast that before raging. Then he will have the rage spell eventually so he will have even more rages per day and also after he rages and it ends... he can cast true strike to help with the penalties he takes after raging.

[Keld Denar]

Rage Mage is a combination class, and thusly not technically "legal" for gestalt, but it does include rules for casting while raging. Being only 1/2 casting, you might be able to argue it, alternating casting levels with barb levels on one side and taking full Rage Mage on the other so that you aren't advancing CLs faster than your HD.

Its not a very strong PrC, but could be fun non-the-less. Spell Rage + Fire Spells is like "My anger burns with the fury of a thousand suns, which are made up of thousands of smaller suns, which are also on fire!".

Get a bit 2handed +1 Spellstoring weapon and load it up with Combust.

[Evard]

I wasn't even aware of a rage mage, before and during his rage he could be melee but after his rage he could fall back and be support artillery.

But spell storing weapons are my fav :3