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Adamaro
2010-01-02, 08:27 AM
I would like to read a bit on how magic would change the world (exmpl. ressurection spell) and I am sure there are some similar threads out there, but as a hobby-lurker (and not hard-core member :-D) I heave no idea how to find these threads.

Could someone please do a bit of a search for me regarding threads dealing with the way world would look in which you can ressurect people, detect poison on a whim, comphrehend languages w. magic and - post some links to these threads?

mucho thnx :-D

taltamir
2010-01-02, 08:30 AM
that depends... what sort of magic... DnD magic? 3.5e? with which sets of books (some books are incompatible, like the deities books and the epic handbook), and how closely do you follow the RAW...

if you are playing dnd 3.5 with all books by the raw, then wizards rule the world and have killed all the gods, so resurrection is only available via wish...
unless you have pun pun as an overdeity...

part of the issue is that the deity sourcebooks assume no epic levels, the deities all max out at 20 levels per class, some have more than one class, or just extra "outsider HD"... but a single wizard or cleric who hits level 21 and gets access to epic spellcasting as per the epic handbook is more powerful then all the gods combined.

it gets difficult at times because there are several paths to an arbitrarily high amount of power due to broken mechanics stacking to give you "infinity X" where X is AC, HP, attributes, whatever.

search for "tippyverse" on the forums and you will see how by the RAW magic would alter a world.

IonDragon
2010-01-02, 08:35 AM
As for comprehend languages, I'd like to point you to what the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy has to say about the Babel fish:


...By effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation.

Resurrection, etc could be ruled to only be available "to those who's destiny has not yet been fulfilled" or some such, thereby limiting it's availability.

IMO it's Reincarnate that doesn't make sense. That's the key to immortality right there. All you have to do is pair up with a druid or 2, and you keep reincarnating each other when one dies until the end of time.

mostlyharmful
2010-01-02, 08:41 AM
look for interesting level 0 and 1 spells, even reincarnate you'll be hard pressed to get hold of because it's a high level spell, the things that'd really change the world are the cantrips and instantly available stuff the moment you get a casting level, magecraft, prestidigitation, create water, purify food,

put these together with the trap rules and you get the tippyverse, try to find tippyverse '84 for an indepth look at magic being a realized part of a setting rather than something only tacked on to a medieval world.

Slayn82
2010-01-02, 09:17 AM
Well, some time ago i posted this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7493690#post7493690), about the pratical uses of some spells, like a permanent Wall of Fire.

Adamaro
2010-01-02, 09:59 AM
Well, some time ago i posted this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7493690#post7493690), about the pratical uses of some spells, like a permanent Wall of Fire.
Awesome. Just what I was looking for.

Jack_Simth
2010-01-02, 12:16 PM
I would like to read a bit on how magic would change the world (exmpl. ressurection spell) and I am sure there are some similar threads out there, but as a hobby-lurker (and not hard-core member :-D) I heave no idea how to find these threads.

Could someone please do a bit of a search for me regarding threads dealing with the way world would look in which you can ressurect people, detect poison on a whim, comphrehend languages w. magic and - post some links to these threads?

mucho thnx :-D
A good chunk of this depends on quite a few things:

1) What limits are there in spell access?
a) Spell Level?
b) Source list?
c) Target list? (e.g., touch or greater, or can we use Personal spells for this stuff as well?)
2) Can we use the magic trap rules to make beneficial spells that are effectively at will?
a) Centralized places only (businesses, government facilities)?
b) In-home?
3) Are the custom magic item rules in play?
4) Do they come into mass use? (AKA, do the people who can do this want to set it up?)

For instance, if we let trap rules into the world, but not custom magic items, Core only, places that have a lot of capital available only (so not in your house, but there's a local government facility or business that stocks the traps, and grants access for cheap), nonpersonal spells only, and then pick spell levels available for the traps....

Spell Level 0:
Cure Minor Wounds traps mean everyone survives blunt trauma if they make it to the hospital alive (auto-stabilize... and repeated uses is also enough to get you back on your feet, no problem, no risks, within a few minutes - and you might be able to just put it in the ambulance).
Purify Food and Drink traps mean supplies don't spoil on the shelf.
Prestidigitation traps mean that you get lots of flavored outmeal at any food distribution point, and you might .
Most the rest aren't expected to impact society noticably - Detect Poison, for instance, would affect *almost* nobody.
Create Water means that everyone has a safe source of water, anywhere, and drought doesn't happen.

Spell Level 1:
As Spell level 0, plus:
Endure Elements means that summer clothing is always in style ... among city-dwellers, who can pay the minor fee to walk through the local magic-mart (minor fee because once established, there's no maintenance costs - I can totally see a $0.25 turnstile that trips an Endure Elements trap, giving you immunity to most weather for 24 hours).
Most the others don't affect much, and while Charm Person might help interrogations, society could do some strange things if mind control is in play. That's a can of worms you don't want to touch (and I'm ignoring further, similar things, such as Discern Lies, Detect Thoughts, Suggestion, Dominate Peron, and so on, as they come up later). Comprehend languages, likewise, doesn't much matter... because most people in a given area will be speaking the same language anyway, plus it's awkward to use.

Spell Level 2:
As Spell level 1, plus:
Lessor Restoration means that most poisons and diseases are merely inconvenient.
Continual Flame means you can mass-manufacture lighting.
There's also a few minor things that affect workplaces - Darkvision and False Life are available for anyone who needs them for their work (miners, firemen, law enforcement, anyone who has a job that has a high accident rate), as they last for hours - you just walk through the trap every three hours, and you're covered. This may cause some issues with workplace safety, but doesn't much affect the general populace.

Spell Level 3:
This is where things start to get ... interesting.
Animate Dead makes for cheap manual labor... if allowed.
Create Food and Water goes well with Prestidigitation, to make farms useful only for luxury goods, as there's enough food for everyone, and it's reasonably tasty. This SERIOUSLY changes society, as those who control the traps get to control the world (if you charge, say, $1 per person to go through the Endure Elements trap and take your bowl into the Create Food and Water trap's drop-zone, ) - and they're much more defensible and controllable than farmland. More reliable, too - famine is a thing of the past, except where manufactured for one reason or another.
Water Breathing expands where you can have workplaces... but not homes or cities, as you have to make sure it lasts a long time, and getting distracted would be fatal.
Speak with Dead means that murder is really dangerous, unless you arrange for the body to never be found.
Shrink Item helps with moving, but isn't overly useful, as at this point, nonmagical goods aren't exactly overly needful.
With Remove Disease and Remove Blindness/Deafness, people pretty much only die of old age, accidents, poisons, or deliberate action - illness is dead. People can still be crippled, though... for now.

4th:
Neutralize Poison and Restoration mean that anyone who gets to the hospital alive makes a full recovery from anything short of amputation or old age.
Reincarnate can take care of even that. People still eventually stay dead even if they don't want to die (due to level and con loss), but it takes a looong time. This would cause population issues, but fortunately, the Create Food and Water traps mean that it's just a matter of how much land is available to expand into - and there's a LOT of that.

5th: Is another big one.
Fabricate means that you've got magical factories producing goods. Only raw materials are needful, and skilled labor is no longer needed except on-site (buildings and such, although those are barely needed thanks to Endure Elements).
Wall of Stone combines with the lower-level Stone Shape to make housing easy, although it takes a 9th level caster on-site for a day or so. Still - you get a house in a just a day or two. Seriously cuts down on expenses. And Illusory wall makes decorating a snap... for the Wizard-7.
Plane Shift deals with population expansion issues (colonize another world), as well as raw materials issues (mine another world)
Raise Dead makes living again much more convenient, except in cases where you are close to dying of old age.
Teleport makes for a very small world.... but doesn't get used much, as it can kill you. Still, as the trap-makers are likely "very familiar" with the destination, you're unlikely to get killed, you've just got a 3% chance of getting lost (woe betied the commoner-1 that steps into a "studied carefully" teleport trap, though... 1% chance of instant death)

Beyond that? Surprisingly little changes until you get to Greater Teleport (no-error travel), Wish (Anything mass-manufactored for free), and True Resurrection (old age and suicide being the only killers ... or really skilled mages).

Yahzi
2010-01-02, 12:53 PM
I would like to read a bit on how magic would change the world (exmpl. ressurection spell) and I am sure there are some similar threads out there
How about a whole world book?
World of Prime (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=64422)

And the novel that inspired it:
Sword of the Bright Lady (http://www.amazon.com/Sword-Bright-Lady-M-Planck/dp/B002ACW00Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258221596&sr=8-1)

But to sum up:
Cure Minor Wounds means no women die in childbirth.
Remove Disease stops plagues before they get out of control.
These two alone = huge population explosion (unless monsters eat a lot of your people all the time).
Zone of Truth creates either flawless justice or perfect police states.

deuxhero
2010-01-02, 12:59 PM
Hmm, in a setting that did this, would it be reasonable to have the settings shifter/catfolk home have been mostly destroyed by a Chernobyl esqe magic backfire?

awa
2010-01-02, 02:03 PM
you know in a world with no dm and all as raw i imagine that the gods would cast divination's all the time to kill any caster who would grow up to threaten them in the cradle. Use divination to detect pepole about to create an infinite combo and curb stomp him "before" he does it or gets strong enough to prevent the curb stomp. Hell the gods could even have a pact none of us will try and take over the world or the rest will all gang up on you before you have a chance to do it.

Bunny of Faith
2010-01-02, 02:48 PM
Just use the search function and look for "Tippyverse", it should give you a bunch of information on this sort of thing.