The Greatclub[3.5]

[Androgeus]

So I was looking at the greatclub and comparing it to the other greats (sword and axe) and I have to ask, why is it slightly worse than either of them?

The greatsword and greataxe seem to be on approximately the same power level. The greataxe having a higher crit multiplier than the greatsword which has a large threat range instead. Also the greatsword's 2d6 dmg means more chance at average dmg but less of a chance to get max compared to the greataxe's 1d12.

The greatclub has no strict mechanical benfits, minimum crit range and multiplier coupled with a loss of a potential 2 dmg (this means you are more likely to hit max dmg than the greatsword and greataxe, however I think that they both have a higher chance to do 10 or more dmg than the great club has to do 10).

The only possible advantages is the relative cheapness of the weapon (5gp compared to 20gp for the greataxe and 50gp for the greatsword), and the fact it deals bludgeoning (I'm not sure but I have a feeling that more creatures have dr -/bludgeoning than slashing).

[ex cathedra]

Weapons quickly stopped being designed with inter-weapon balance in mind, sadly. It's strictly worse, disregarding Greater Mighty Wallop.

[pres_man]

The greatclub should be simple weapon, but some people don't like the idea of clerics swinging them around.

[J.Gellert]

The greatclub should be simple weapon, but some people don't like the idea of clerics swinging them around.

Don't even get me started on these... "Simple, martial, exotic" really failed to grasp both realism and balance.

[Morty]

Because it's a piece of wood with no metal on it. It's supposed to be worse but much cheaper.

[Setra]

No worries about Rust Monsters, at least :smalltongue:

[Incorrect]

Just like with feats and spells, there are some weapons that are just bad choises. But, as mentioned, the greatclub is cheap and not made of iron which has some advantages

[KillianHawkeye]

I think the greatclub is mainly in there so that the primitive humanoids and giants have something big and heavy to wield. Most PCs wouldn't take it.

[TheCountAlucard]

Just like with feats and spells, there are some weapons that are just bad choises. But, as mentioned, the greatclub is cheap and not made of iron which has some advantages...Like not being subject to the shillelagh spell, despite the fact that the club and quarterstaff are?

[Grommen]

A lot of the weapons are not balanced right. Seems to be most of the bulgening ones get the worst end of the stick </pun>.

You'll have to live with it or fix it. Personally I would just pick up a greater version of the Mace and call it a day.

[Soranar]

well, bludgeoning damage resistance is rare as compared to slashing or piercing so it kinda makes sense that a greatclub would do less damage

that being said, greatclub also get weirder crafting options and should probably be simple weapons...

[Deepblue706]

Apart from being able to deal with some monsters that have DR due to the damage type, the Greatclub doesn't have much going for it. It can, however, be used to qualify for Three Mountains, the weapon-style feat from Complete Warrior. Two hits on a single enemy in the same round can make them Nauseated (a Fort Save to negate, DC based on your STR) for a round or something, which renders them able to make only a single move action while the condition persists. Among all the weapons eligible, the Great Club is the biggest (others are Heavy Mace and Morningstar, IIRC).

[bosssmiley]

So I was looking at the greatclub and comparing it to the other greats (sword and axe) and I have to ask, why is it slightly worse than either of them?

Because a Louisville slugger is objectively a sub-optimal choice of combat weapon when compared to a zweihander (designed to can-open knights in plate armour) or a viking axe (designed to break up shield walls).

Wood trumps flesh.
Steel trumps wood.

[pres_man]

Apart from being able to deal with some monsters that have DR due to the damage type, the Greatclub doesn't have much going for it. It can, however, be used to qualify for Three Mountains, the weapon-style feat from Complete Warrior. Two hits on a single enemy in the same round can make them Nauseated (a Fort Save to negate, DC based on your STR) for a round or something, which renders them able to make only a single move action while the condition persists. Among all the weapons eligible, the Great Club is the biggest (others are Heavy Mace and Morningstar, IIRC).

Does the heavy flail qualify?

[Ernir]

Does the heavy flail qualify?

No. The heavy mace, morningstar and greatclub only.

[UglyPanda]

It's cheap and few will use one past level 2 barring unfortunate circumstances. Masterworking is a flat cost, not a percentage, so there is little incentive to get a masterwork version of a cheaper weapon.

If you follow WotC's string of logic, then if the greatclub were good, it would have to be made more expensive. However, the greatclub is just a weaponized log, so they have to make it cheap. Taking the inverse of the first statement, weapons that are cheap should be bad.

[Cicciograna]

I think the greatclub is mainly in there so that the primitive humanoids and giants have something big and heavy to wield. Most PCs wouldn't take it.

I second this idea. GC is there for mere fluff.

[ericgrau]

Almost every weapon has its advantage. The greatclub is low price and takes at most 2 days to craft should you find yourself weaponless. The other 10 weapons each have an advantage in terms of power. What's the big deal of having just 1 cheap one? Most monsters even have a metal weapon, not a greatclub.

[Keld Denar]

Don't forget about Spikes + Brambles on a Greatclub. Those combined with Greater Mighty Wallop make a non-magical Greatclub a fearsome weapon to reckon with. Spikes and GMW are also hours/level duration spells which are great to keep it up.

[GoatBoy]

The greatclub is the favoured weapon of the deity Hercules.

What else needs to be said?

[Abd al-Azrad]

Don't forget about Spikes + Brambles on a Greatclub. Those combined with Greater Mighty Wallop make a non-magical Greatclub a fearsome weapon to reckon with. Spikes and GMW are also hours/level duration spells which are great to keep it up.

I thought they updated Spikes and Brambles to last 1 round/level (SC). Which is a shame, because otherwise they can make for a ridiculously good set of weapon buffs.

[Keld Denar]

Oh, dang, it does. Thats crappy. Complete Divine Spikes was actually worth using...SpC Spikes is pretty much a dead spell anymore, not worth the action to cast it...especially not compared to the other spells you could be casting in that round. Generally you don't want to spend 5 combat rounds buffing before going into melee, this one just isn't worth it.

I'd either shift it back to hours/level, or make it a swift action cast time. Otherwise, no one in their right mind would cast it...

[Deepblue706]

The greatclub is the favoured weapon of the deity Hercules.

What else needs to be said?

I'm pretty sure he used poison too, which is likewise commonly believed to be a poor option in 3.5. And Grappling.

But then again, for all we know these could be perfectly viable if your character has divine blood.

[Mastikator]

A better question is why is a big wooden stick worth 5 gp. This is practically something you could just break off a tree or pick up in the woods, it should be free.

[Spiryt]

A better question is why is a big wooden stick worth 5 gp. This is practically something you could just break off a tree or pick up in the woods, it should be free.

By picking up any big branch in the woods, you would get clunky something that would break after few swings.

Making decent club is not so easy - as for 5gp - I would not dare to apraise club in D&D, since economy doesn't make sense anyway in 3.5.

But seeing as 10 foot ladder is worth 5 cp, those 5 gp doesn't make any sense indeed.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Well. I don't know if the PHB has a description for a greatclub but the srd doesn't. Who's to say that a greatclub doesn't look like a tetsubo? Sure it's a log at the business end but the handle is crafted for gripping and leverage and the "log" end is wrapped in a sheet of studded metal. That's my 2cp anyway.

[Androgeus]

The greatclub is the favoured weapon of the deity Hercules.

What else needs to be said?

That Hercules was some kind of frenzied berserker who kept failing his will saves when he was with his family?

[Starbuck_II]

Because it's a piece of wood with no metal on it. It's supposed to be worse but much cheaper.

Are you sure that describes it?
PHB says it has metal. Bands of iron spikes, nails, etc.

Pg 118 shows the picture with metal spikes.

[Roderick_BR]

So I was looking at the greatclub and comparing it to the other greats (sword and axe) and I have to ask, why is it slightly worse than either of them?
Because greatsword and greataxe are big sharp weapons, and greatclub is a piece of wood with a piece of metal in the point to make it hit a bit harder?:smalltongue:
Kidding. Yes, it's the cheapness. More an improvised weapon or a weapon for people with little proficiency. It's just martial because it's slightly stronger than it's simple counterpart.

[deuxhero]

Damn, I know someone on the Wizards board made a point system for creating custom weapons that balanced them against the core, but I don't know where it was or if it survived The Conception.

[Thurbane]

Not called GREAT Club for nothing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49522)

[Temotei]

Character concept?