[3.5] So I was just told to go to Hell

[Choco]

Well, actually Gehenna, but close enough to Hell.

To sum it up, my character got a quest to go to Gehenna to find a plot item that is apparently on a boat on the river Styx. The party is currently 6 characters all at lvl 8, and I have a means to locate the item once we are on Gehenna. The problem is getting in and out alive. Judging by the encounter tables in the Manual of the Planes, there is only about a 9% chance we will run into something we likely can't at least survive, but wandering around Gehenna half dead is probably not advisable. We may be level 9 or 10 by the time we find a way to safely get to Gehenna, since this is really just a sidequest. The only casters in the party are me (sorcerer, mostly crowd control with a few blasty spells and mage armor added in) and a cleric.

So, how would y'all go about this mission? I really am just looking for ways to make the trip more survivable. Waiting till we are higher level isn't an option either because even though this isn't the main quest my character is going to do this ASAP for RP reasons.

So far the precautions I got (either already or on my to-do list) are:

Overland Flight/Fly
that undetectable alignment ring
protection from fire
some sort of anti-divination protection

The biggest hurdle I can see will be getting back to the material plane if/when we get the item. Looks like going to Teardrop Palace may be required.

[Lysander]

Cast Alter Self to appear like a devil, with the other party members dressed up in cultist robes to appear like your mortal servants? A passing fiend might not view you as hostile if you fit in.

And make sure your non-casters carry silvered weapons.

[jmbrown]

If resting is necessary, you'll want rope trick. 8 hours is just shy of the 15-60 minutes you'll need to prepare spells so make sure you don't blow your entire load in a single fight. Have the cleric keep extra castings of bless weapon or align weapon, freedom, and magic circle against evil. Everyone will want some extra scrolls of see invisibility.

The difficulty of devils really comes down to how the DM plays them and where you encounter them. The devils your level love using major image to trick people or lead them into traps. For your level, bone devils are pretty nasty because they separate casters from the rest of the party using wall of ice, harass flying people, dimensional anchor on mages, and when they're beginning to lose they can easily teleport out to recast invisibility before teleporting back in. Erinyes are also dangerous because their true seeing will negate good spells like greater invisibility, mirror image, blink, or displacement. They're especially potent if your DM likes using cover and concealment to compliment shot on the run.

[Flickerdart]

You may also encounter demons and yugoloths in Gehenna. Carry some Cold Iron gear with you as well.

[Jack_Simth]

Rings of Sustenance (don't know how long it'll take)
Extended Rope Trick (for resting)
Extended Invisibility (spam this - when you run out of them, you rest).
Dimension Door (for running away really quickly)
Arcane Scroll of the Divine Spell Plane Shift (slightly cheesy, but if a Cleric provides the Plane Shift, and a Wizard provides Scribe Scroll, and the Wizard is deemed the Creator, you've got an arcane scroll of Plane Shift as a 5th level spell, caster level 9 - just don't roll a 1 on your caster level check when activating it).

Goal: sneak in and out. You don't fight, you run.

[Choco]

Cast Alter Self to appear like a devil, with the other party members dressed up in cultist robes to appear like your mortal servants? A passing fiend might not view you as hostile if you fit in.

And make sure your non-casters carry silvered weapons.

All good advice that I will take to heart. Maybe I can have the DM homebrew me a custom item that will permanently make me look like a devil as long as it is worn. Avoiding any fights is really the best option for me, so that should help greatly. Luckily I do in fact speak Infernal.


If resting is necessary, you'll want rope trick. 8 hours is just shy of the 15-60 minutes you'll need to prepare spells so make sure you don't blow your entire load in a single fight. Have the cleric keep extra castings of bless weapon or align weapon, freedom, and magic circle against evil. Everyone will want some extra scrolls of see invisibility.

The difficulty of devils really comes down to how the DM plays them and where you encounter them. The devils your level love using major image to trick people or lead them into traps. For your level, bone devils are pretty nasty because they separate casters from the rest of the party using wall of ice, harass flying people, dimensional anchor on mages, and when they're beginning to lose they can easily teleport out to recast invisibility before teleporting back in. Erinyes are also dangerous because their true seeing will negate good spells like greater invisibility, mirror image, blink, or displacement. They're especially potent if your DM likes using cover and concealment to compliment shot on the run.

All your advice will be followed as well, except the rope trick part... Our DM doesn't allow that rope trick cheese, rules that you can't get proper rest for 8 hours while holding onto a rope. The rest of the group dont mind though, we support that decision. EDIT: Yes, this is houseruled. The rope can still be pulled up past the entrance to the extradimensional space, but everyone in the space must hold onto the rope or fall out. Also we got bags of holding so we don't use the spell often anyway...

As for the fights, we know we will probably be torn apart by intelligent fiends because no one in the party is optimized in the slightest except for me (and even then, only slightly). As such most effort will likely go into avoiding fights, either by deception or hauling ass.


You may also encounter demons and yugoloths in Gehenna. Carry some Cold Iron gear with you as well.

Also good advice. So everyone will need at least a cold iron and silver weapon in addition to their normal gear.


Rings of Sustenance (don't know how long it'll take)
Extended Rope Trick (for resting)
Extended Invisibility (spam this - when you run out of them, you rest).
Dimension Door (for running away really quickly)

Goal: sneak in and out. You don't fight, you run.

Exactly my thoughts for the most part, except the rope trick. Me and 1 other party member luckily already have a Ring of Sustenance, the rest I can convince to buy them next chance.

Does anyone know of a good way to get back to the material plane after the item is acquired? At the moment it looks like visiting Teardrop Palace and paying ungodly amounts of money for a Gate back will probably be the best option, but I am trying to minimize close encounters with the fiends.

[jokey665]

Our DM doesn't allow that rope trick cheese, rules that you can't get proper rest for 8 hours while holding onto a rope.

You do know you don't actually hang from the rope while inside of a rope trick, right? :smalleek:

You could bring a bedroll inside it and everything.

[Choco]

You do know you don't actually hang from the rope while inside of a rope trick, right? :smalleek:

You could bring a bedroll inside it and everything.

Yeah, I edited the original post pointing out it is a houserule. We have on occasion used the spell with climbing gear to fasten ourselves to the rope while in there so we wouldnt have to hold on (for hiding extended periods of time), but resting inside one wont work.

[Lysander]

Part of gehenna is frozen. Find out if you'll need protection from cold as well.

If you can get teleport that will save a lot of time you'd otherwise spend flying through hostile areas.

Also, remember that Yugoloths are mercenaries. If you can summon one with Lesser Planar Binding, and offer it a decent amount of gold or a valuable magic item, you might be able to hire it as willing guide around its home plane. A contract like this might be accepted:

"In exchange for [REWARD] you will guide us through Gehenna, showing us a safe and expedient way of reaching a destination we will describe to you, helping us avoid dangerous obstacles, escape threats if necessary, and behaving in a way that assists us in accomplishing our mission and returning safely to the material plane. Once we return to the material plane we will give you a completion bonus of [REWARD] if you provided good service, and then will depart peaceful."

[Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins]

Tie the rope around wrists/ankles, then. What? I admit, I'm not DnD player, but if this is cheese-wise, you can still get a good night's sleep with a rope warpped around your ankle, so long as it's not cutting off the circulation or something. Bada-bing, no one lets go of the rope.

[Jack_Simth]

Does anyone know of a good way to get back to the material plane after the item is acquired? At the moment it looks like visiting Teardrop Palace and paying ungodly amounts of money for a Gate back will probably be the best option, but I am trying to minimize close encounters with the fiends.

I edited one in:
Arcane Scroll of the Divine Spell Plane Shift (slightly cheesy, but if a Cleric provides the Plane Shift, and a Wizard provides Scribe Scroll, and the Wizard is deemed the Creator, you've got an arcane scroll of Plane Shift as a 5th level spell, caster level 9 - just don't roll a 1 on your caster level check when activating it).


Yeah, I edited the original post pointing out it is a houserule. We have on occasion used the spell with climbing gear to fasten ourselves to the rope while in there so we wouldnt have to hold on (for hiding extended periods of time), but resting inside one wont work.
Believe it or not, there's climbing gear that actually exists IRL that's specifically for taking a nap while hanging from a rope. For a quick approximation?

Get a ten foot pole, a hammock, and a bit of rope.

Connect both ends of the hammock to the ends of the ten-foot pole.

Use the rope to tie the middle of the ten-foot pole to the rope in your Rope Trick.

Take a nap on the hammock, and don't fail your Use Rope check.

[Choco]

Part of gehenna is frozen. Find out if you'll need protection from cold as well.

If you can get teleport that will save a lot of time you'd otherwise spend flying through hostile areas.

Also, remember that Yugoloths are mercenaries. If you can summon one with Lesser Planar Binding, and offer it a decent amount of gold or a valuable magic item, you might be able to hire it as willing guide around its home plane. A contract like this might be accepted:

"In exchange for [REWARD] you will guide us through Gehenna, showing us a safe and expedient way of reaching a destination we will describe to you, helping us avoid dangerous obstacles, escape threats if necessary, and behaving in a way that assists us in accomplishing our mission and returning safely to the material plane. Once we return to the material plane we will give you a completion bonus of [REWARD] if you provided good service, and then will depart peaceful."

Teleport items are added to the list of things to get.

We are only going to Khalas, as it is the only mountain with the river Styx flowing through it, so cold wont be a problem unless we are forced to go through Mungoth to get there.

It thought about using a Yugoloth (there is no paladin in the party so it would be doable) but they are prone to betrayal if they can get a better offer from someone else. Perhaps I can do this with a Devil that is knowledgeable about Khalas, due to decreased chance of betrayal.


Tie the rope around wrists/ankles, then. What? I admit, I'm not DnD player, but if this is cheese-wise, you can still get a good night's sleep with a rope warpped around your ankle, so long as it's not cutting off the circulation or something. Bada-bing, no one lets go of the rope.

There lies the difference between restful sleep and dozing off a few minutes at a time over a few hours. Anyone who has ever had to sleep in adverse conditions (noisy, on an airplane, etc.) and isn't used to it will tell you the sleep aint very restful. That being said, cliff climbers do have special tents that they fasten to their ropes/hooks and sleep in, so we can probably acquire some of those if we really wanted to. That would require us leaving behind all our bags of holding and handy haversacks and stuff though, which might actually be better anyway.

[The Glyphstone]

I'm pretty sure they know about that, but have decided that having 8 hours of safe sleep is cheesy. To each group their own, after all, and it does make games a little more 'tense'.

EDIT: Looks like it's also been houseruled that any extra dimensional space will explode if combined with Rope Trick. That does make the spell utterly worthless.

[Chrono22]

I just completed a campaign with a similar ending. My pair of level 8 player characters had to retrieve an object from Stygia.
You either go about it very quietly and carefully- or do it very loudly and very quickly.
About halfway through the mission things fell apart, and they had to switch to the latter. Some epic fights ensued, wherein they managed to defeat an ice devil (CR 13) with just the two of them.
Still... they were very well made characters. Like, very highly optimized. Your party may not have the second option.

[Choco]

I edited one in:
Arcane Scroll of the Divine Spell Plane Shift (slightly cheesy, but if a Cleric provides the Plane Shift, and a Wizard provides Scribe Scroll, and the Wizard is deemed the Creator, you've got an arcane scroll of Plane Shift as a 5th level spell, caster level 9 - just don't roll a 1 on your caster level check when activating it).

Oh man, thank you!

I dont even need to do that. We have a lvl 8 (currently) cleric in the party, so it can stay a divine scroll and just be used by the cleric.

[Lysander]

It thought about using a Yugoloth (there is no paladin in the party so it would be doable) but they are prone to betrayal if they can get a better offer from someone else. Perhaps I can do this with a Devil that is knowledgeable about Khalas, due to decreased chance of betrayal.


If it agrees to your terms, Lesser Planar Binding compels it to serve you until the task is complete (up to one day per caster level). As a sorcerer you should have a high enough charisma, plus the high positive modifier from offering it decent payment, to win the check to convince it to serve you. It might want to betray you due to its evil nature, but it won't be able to if you word the contact carefully. And if you treat it fairly, it might not be inclined to get revenge once the spell ends (or might merely consider it too risky and unprofitable).

[Choco]

If it agrees to your terms, Lesser Planar Binding compels it to serve you until the task is complete (up to one day per caster level). As a sorcerer you should have a high enough charisma, plus the high positive modifier from offering it decent payment, to win the check to convince it to serve you. It might want to betray you due to its evil nature, but it won't be able to if you word the contact carefully. And if you treat it fairly, it might not be inclined to get revenge once the spell ends (or might merely consider it too risky and unprofitable).

That is a good point. I will not waste a spell slot picking this up, but I will be sure to get a scroll next chance I get. You are right, as long as I do not inconvenience it much and it actually gets a nice reward it likely wont seek any revenge, though it will probably sell the information (that it was us that took the item) to whoever will come looking for it. I don't really care about that part though, getting it is all that matters at the moment :smallbiggrin:

[Kelb_Panthera]

I can see an argument for the yugoloth seeking revenge. I know I certainly wouldn't appreciate being magically compelled to help someone I don't know, and I really wouldn't appreciate being forced by the same spell to pass up opportunities to profit from screwing over the uppity mortal. A devil will seek revenge. Never deal with devils if you can avoid it.

[Lysander]

I can see an argument for the yugoloth seeking revenge. I know I certainly wouldn't appreciate being magically compelled to help someone I don't know, and I really wouldn't appreciate being forced by the same spell to pass up opportunities to profit from screwing over the uppity mortal. A devil will seek revenge. Never deal with devils if you can avoid it.

True, but a level 10 party doesn't have that much to fear from a low level fiend. Especially if you don't reveal your names to it, or bind it anywhere near your hometown it might have no way of figuring out who you are. And you can get its name, which will allow you to bind it again and kill it should it ever turn against you. It definitely is risky, but having a guide through the lower planes, one that can lie on your behalf if you're caught, is potentially quite useful. Also, it's just damn cool whether it's a good idea or not. Having to outwit an untrustworthy but helpful fiendish NPC is a fun challenge.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I think you're seriously underestimating the resourcefulness of denizens of the lower planes, but you do have a point about it being a fairly entertaining scenario. If you really wanna go with a planar binding I'd suggest a demon. They don't play well with others and so the one you bind probably will have the trouble in finding you, that you expect. Yugoloths can be resourceful, and devils are the fiendish version of big brother. I cannot stress enough how badly you might be screwing yourself if you pick on a devil. At least if your dm plays devils in a manner consistent with what I've read about them.

[Thames]

Why are you disguising yourself as a devil on a plane where the bloodwars are fought? Seriously every damn demon that sees you will try to kill you without giving you the chance to talk and considering that talking/misleading yourself out of encounters is how you will best survive. Disguise yourself as a Yugoloth or some other non-involved evil race or even a neutral race in case celestials attack.

Did you find out what sort of terrain it was from the questgiver? Get mounts which suit it if you can.

[Otodetu]

How about saying no to the whole quest?
I know my players would just say no if they see something is a bit to hard for their current level...

[Slayn82]

Yogoloths often act as mercenaries in the blood wars, so they could find a way to betray you while fulfiling the contract (I am a guide, i show the way. Never said it would be safe/short/easy, or that we would not be followed by others). Better to go as a Slaadi, in my opinion.

[Xenogears]

How about saying no to the whole quest?
I know my players would just say no if they see something is a bit to hard for their current level...

Because he already said that for RP reasons his character wants to get the item ASAP? That seems like the best reason to do a quest at all in fact.

Now on to advice. Let's see. Disguise seems a bad idea. What with demons killing basically everything on sight, the possibility of celestials killing anything evil, and devils/yugoloths killing anything non-evil your pretty much still gonna get attacked by something. You are probably not strong enough to go in guns blazing either. So that leaves two options.

The first is to go in stealthily. Less chance of death if things go right but high chance of something catching you eventually.

The second is to go in quick, nab the item, and book it out. If you hafta plane shift in then your not gonna be on target and teleport is also a hard one to go for since it too can be innaccurate.

I think your best bet is to run from any encounter you cant defeat in one round without allerting some other enemy and hide as often as possible. Hmmm. Rope trick not working like normal would make that hard. Might be worth it to just preserve spells so you don't need the 8 hours of uninterupted rest and just get an eternal wand of rope trick and rest anyway. Of course then you need somewhere to stash your Bags of Holding....

[Choco]

Thats a good point about being attacked by everything. My plan was stealthy/quick all along, but we may have to walk quite a distance to get to the item which will be moving, being on a boat and the Styx flowing down a mountain and all. I know infernal, celestial, and abyssal so maybe I can get a spellbook and an undetectable alignment ring and pretend to be a wizard looking for forbidden knowledge. If I am set upon by fiends I should be able to negotiate, and if celestials I could take off the ring and reveal my good alignment and explain I am trying to travel unharassed.

Nothing is foolproof of course, so I would probably have to have some illusions and teleportation on hand to escape if needed.

[Kelb_Panthera]

On the note of illusions; Misdirection (the concept not the spell, though maybe that too) is your friend. If the party has someone that can produce the X image line of spells they can really get you out of a jam, especially if properly combined with general confusion and active stealth.

[Lysander]

Have your cleric use commune and divination to get as much advice as possible in advance for your mission. Perhaps a good deity will have limited knowledge regarding gehenna, but it's worth a shot.

In the same vein, maybe you can make some gather information checks to find a trustworthy person who's actually visited the lower planes before. Like a retired wizard, or a paladin who went on a quest there long ago. They might provide valuable information.

[Xenogears]

Here's an idea. See if you can get the entire party a burrow speed. Then dig your way as close to your target as you can, hopefully unnoticed, then fly the rest of the way and planeshift out as fast as possible.

[GolemsVoice]

Depending on what cosmology you're using, there might be a plane, or even a region on the Prime, where many planar travellers meet, and maybe even some extraplanar beings. Try going there first and learn as much as you can about the plane you're going to visit. Maybe you can even hire a guide with experience, or somebody who knows how to bribe the infernal beaurocracy. Information, along with the actuall, rule-affecting spells and items, is your best friend. Remember, you're going into unknown territory, where everybody you meet will likely be hostile, and even the environment itself might be out to get you, so knowing what awaits you, what to do if there's an emergency, if there are some tricks things to say etc. will help you a lot.