{3.5e} Drunken Master

[AirGuitarGod32]

Yes, I'm going there!

I think Drunken Master is a fun and awesome PrC, if done right.

Here's my concept:

Swordsage X/ Monk 1/Shadow Sun Ninja Y/Drunken Master Z

focus him on Unarmed Strike and unleash Drunken Boxing.

[Signmaker]

Needs more Blue Raja fork-hucking.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Forgive, I'm not familiar with Drunken Master, but why the level of Monk? Is Flurry a Prerequisite?

[Xenogears]

I think you need Flurry of Blows so Swordsage doesn't do it...

I'm pretty sure you basically need monk levels

Edit: Oh I see you edited yourself...

Edit2: Well since thats already been covered lets see what else I can add. Hmmm well there is the fun of wielding 100ft ladders and gaining 100ft reach...
Ummm there is also using that metal from BoED that lets you reforge stuff made of it. Then make a masterwork table leg out of it. Now you have an enchanteable improvised weapon that even though it breaks on a nat 1 can just be reforged in one round...

[AirGuitarGod32]

this idea brings up a question: Is it possible to optimize Drunken Master? I mean, this version does slightly more damage on average, but is nowhere near optimized. If played, it should be with zero magic (not including magic items such as Monk's Belt or Amulet of Natural Weapons) Thats how this guy works. Kinda

[The Dark Fiddler]

Obviously take Superior Unarmed Strike, to boost your Unarmed Strikes even more. Sure you knew that already.

[Starscream]

I saw this thread less than 5 minutes after seeing Legend of the Drunken Master on Encore, so now I want to play one too!

[Xenogears]

You could make a valid argument for the Exotic Weapon Master's weapon flurry ability to count as flurry of blows. This way you get to cut out monk entirely and use superior unarmed strike to get the unarmed damage of a small monk of your level instead of as a lvl 5 monk like you would with a monk dip...

[Mongoose87]

Try to convince your DM to let you use the 3.0 Drunken Master! It's so much better.

[AirGuitarGod32]

Granted, I see the point of Exotic Weapon Master, but considering its focused on Exotic Weaponry (unless one can argue a pair of Scorpion Kamas, which is a streach to say the least) I personally wouldn't allow it.

Again, that said, I feel as if Drunken Master has serious damage potential. Some classes, however are basically needed for this to be dangerous. Drunken Master is great until 10th, which its Fire Breath Weapon is a stretch to say the least. That said, Drunken Master up into 9th is a damage-dealing machine.

And my DM is apparently full of himself, by putting a LE Warforged Monk 6/Drunken Master 9 in the path of a monk/monk-type PC

[Xenogears]

Granted, I see the point of Exotic Weapon Master, but considering its focused on Exotic Weaponry (unless one can argue a pair of Scorpion Kamas, which is a streach to say the least) I personally wouldn't allow it.

Again, that said, I feel as if Drunken Master has serious damage potential. Some classes, however are basically needed for this to be dangerous. Drunken Master is great until 10th, which its Fire Breath Weapon is a stretch to say the least. That said, Drunken Master up into 9th is a damage-dealing machine.

And my DM is apparently full of himself, by putting a LE Warforged Monk 6/Drunken Master 9 in the path of a monk/monk-type PC

Well yeah it isn't quite a fit but its the best bet to get rid of monk levels. With them superior unarmed strike is basically pointless...

Meh either way. I feel the real fun of the class is in charging in funky ways and beating people with chair legs. Or 100 foot ladders for a lockdown build...

[kabof]

There's was some kind of charging build using Drunken Master and feats from Fiendish Codex. Sorry I can't help more.

[AirGuitarGod32]

Rereading the flavor text of Drunken Master, I had a terrifying revelation: Half-Orc Drunken Master.

Granted, it uses no Maneuvers, but Rage makes him deadly. Using the version from Sword and Fist, here's the build:

Barbarian 7/Drunken Master 9/Frostrager 4

focus on Unarmed Strike, Rage, and grab yourself a Monk's Belt and an Unbreakable Bottle of Infinite Alcohol. Open opponent's mouth, insert right arm.

[Xenogears]

Rereading the flavor text of Drunken Master, I had a terrifying revelation: Half-Orc Drunken Master.

Granted, it uses no Maneuvers, but Rage makes him deadly. Using the version from Sword and Fist, here's the build:

Barbarian 7/Drunken Master 9/Frostrager 4

focus on Unarmed Strike, Rage, and grab yourself a Monk's Belt and an Unbreakable Bottle of Infinite Alcohol. Open opponent's mouth, insert right arm.

Don't you still need flurry or is the 3.0 version different? Also go for bear warrior. Drunken bears doing Flying Kicks? Hell yeah!

[AirGuitarGod32]

Don't you still need flurry or is the 3.0 version different? Also go for bear warrior. Drunken bears doing Flying Kicks? Hell yeah!

allow me to DIRECTLY copy the prereq's of it:




Base Attack Bonus: +4.
Base Unarmed Attack Bonus: +4.
Feats: Great Fortitude, Dodge.
Tumble: 6 ranks.
Other: Evasion ability, must be chosen by existing
drunken masters and survive night of revelry among
them without being incarcerated, poisoned, or
extraordinarily embarrassed


And the Bear Warrior almost screams Drunken Panda. I only wish one could do that...

[RandomLunatic]

allow me to DIRECTLY copy the prereq's of it:



And the Bear Warrior almost screams Drunken Panda. I only wish one could do that...

Barbarians do not have evasion, either. Not even in 3.0, IIRC.

Also, a pure barbarian does not get the requisite ranks in Tumble until level 9.

[Xenogears]

allow me to DIRECTLY copy the prereq's of it:And the Bear Warrior almost screams Drunken Panda. I only wish one could do that...

Much better pre-reqs there. Note to self: use 3.0 version unless already monk.

Well you might wanna talk to the DM about letting you refluff the bear forms as Panda's. I was thinking of that too actually...

If you can swing Lion Totem Barb for the Pounce you could do a giant drunken panda doing a running charge then jumping above you and kicking you three or four times in the face before landing...

[AirGuitarGod32]

Okay, so I need evasion. How to get that without a too-deep monk dip...

and as for the Lion Totem's "Angry Drunk Pouncing Panda 'O Death", this is almost comical. no sane DM could allow this without some liberal trouser soiling from the laughter.

[Xenogears]

Okay, so I need evasion. How to get that without a too-deep monk dip...

and as for the Lion Totem's "Angry Drunk Pouncing Panda 'O Death", this is almost comical. no sane DM could allow this without some liberal trouser soiling from the laughter.

Easiest was is a two level rogue dip. Sneak attack can be ignored but that gives you extra skill points and tumble as a class skill. Also trapfinding in a pinch.

Yeah I never take things seriously so that is exactly the kind of character/NPC I would make.

[RandomLunatic]

Okay, so I need evasion. How to get that without a too-deep monk dip...

Ring of Evasion would work with a bit of DM generosity, although it is kind of vulnerable...

[AirGuitarGod32]

Easiest was is a two level rogue dip. Sneak attack can be ignored but that gives you extra skill points and tumble as a class skill. Also trapfinding in a pinch.

Yeah I never take things seriously so that is exactly the kind of character/NPC I would make.

wouldn' a 2 level dip into Feat rogue be a worthwhile endeavor? Use the free feat for Power Attack (hello bear warrior), it drops Sneak Attack like a redheaded retard baby, and makes the SP boost. Brilliant Xeno! Brilliant!

[Xenogears]

wouldn' a 2 level dip into Feat rogue be a worthwhile endeavor? Use the free feat for Power Attack (hello bear warrior), it drops Sneak Attack like a redheaded retard baby, and makes the SP boost. Brilliant Xeno! Brilliant!

Oh yeah. Forgot about Feat Rogue. Thats even better...

Edit: Oh and since Dodge sucks so bad you should get one of the other feats that say they count as dodge for Pre-Reqs. One of them is in Tome of Battle so since you already listed swordsage at the beggining of this thread that might work. Not sure how better it is though.

[AirGuitarGod32]

So he looks like this:

Half-Orc or Orc

Lion Totem Barbarian 7/ Feat Rogue 2/Drunken Master 9/Bear Warrior 2

Feats: Power Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike, Flying Kick, Snap Kick, Extend Rage, Great Fortitude, Murky-Eyed, Dodge

All Hail the Drunken One-Eyed Panda of Pain

[Xenogears]

So he looks like this:

Half-Orc or Orc

Lion Totem Barbarian 7/ Feat Rogue 2/Drunken Master 9/Bear Warrior 2

Feats: Power Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike, Flying Kick, Snap Kick, Extend Rage, Great Fortitude, Murky-Eyed, Dodge

All Hail the Drunken One-Eyed Panda of Pain

Don't forget an eye patch and a cigar to chomp on...

also I edited my last post in regards to the dodge feat sucking.

[Tiktakkat]

The thing with using the Sword & Fist version is:


Base Unarmed Attack Bonus:

Simply does not exist in 3.5.
No class has one, so no character can qualify.
It is not just "your BAB but unarmed", it is a separate, specific, feature. If it were not, it would not be listed separately from Base Attack Bonus.
As that feature only existed with the 3E monk, you still would not qualify for the class just by having a BAB +4.

[AirGuitarGod32]

Well, I can't take Desert Wind Dodge...

So I'll suffer Dodge as a nearly useless feat. just a wasted endeavor. ah well. and I'll take the eyepatch. no cigar. He's a drunken warrior, not some 1920's Gangster...

[Pluto]

The way I see it, the first 4 levels of Drunken Master provide everything that's really appealing about the class.

One or two levels Monk, four levels Drunken Master and the rest in a melee powerhouse class (pretty much anything with decent BA, and maneuvers/manifesting/spellcasting/soulbinding/pactmaking/bonus damage) can make a workable build with a few fun tricks.

For best results, mix with ladders and an AoO-based ability set.

[AirGuitarGod32]

The thing with using the Sword & Fist version is:



Simply does not exist in 3.5.
No class has one, so no character can qualify.
It is not just "your BAB but unarmed", it is a separate, specific, feature. If it were not, it would not be listed separately from Base Attack Bonus.
As that feature only existed with the 3E monk, you still would not qualify for the class just by having a BAB +4.

DM just said its waived.

[Xenogears]

Simply does not exist in 3.5.
No class has one, so no character can qualify.
It is not just "your BAB but unarmed", it is a separate, specific, feature. If it were not, it would not be listed separately from Base Attack Bonus.
As that feature only existed with the 3E monk, you still would not qualify for the class just by having a BAB +4.

But this isn't a theoetical discussion that needs to be determined by RAW and RAW alone. AirGuitarGod can go find his DM and ask about that.

Edit:
The way I see it, the first 4 levels of Drunken Master provide everything that's really appealing about the class.

One or two levels Monk, four levels Drunken Master and the rest in a melee powerhouse class (pretty much anything with decent BA, and maneuvers/manifesting/spellcasting/soulbinding/pactmaking/bonus damage) can make a workable build with a few fun tricks.

For best results, mix with ladders and an AoO-based ability set.

But if he likes the fluff of the class he might wanna maximize the drinking potential even if it is not as powerful as other options. Oh and as amusing as laddar combat is you seem to have failed to see the awesomeness of his character...

[AirGuitarGod32]

The way I see it, the first 4 levels of Drunken Master provide everything that's really appealing about the class.

One or two levels Monk, four levels Drunken Master and the rest in a melee powerhouse class (pretty much anything with decent BA, and maneuvers/manifesting/spellcasting/soulbinding/pactmaking/bonus damage) can make a workable build with a few fun tricks.

For best results, mix with ladders and an AoO-based ability set.

so drunken rage and unarmed strike die up to d12's, a speed boost, a grapple boost, usability of alcohol as a potion, and a flying headbutt aren't appealing?

[FlamingKobold]

I've got to say: from a DM's perspective I would definitely allow it.

From a player's perspective: I would love to use it.

Regardless, this is awesome. I reminds me of the Pandaren brewmaster (for anyone who plays warcraft)

[Tiktakkat]

DM just said its waived.

Heh.
That is the other way to get around it. :smallwink:

For myself, I agree.
I think the use of backdoor class abilities in lieu of overt "Must be level Xth of Class Y", is a very poor display of subverting their own design guidelines.
The section on designing prestige classes explicitly reads:
"Don’t require levels in a specific class, minimum ability scores, or minimum hit points to qualify for a prestige class."
When only one class has Flurry of Blow and Still Mind, it rather makes the prestige class require levels in a specific class when those abilities are used.

[Xenogears]

Heh.
That is the other way to get around it. :smallwink:

For myself, I agree.
I think the use of backdoor class abilities in lieu of overt "Must be level Xth of Class Y", is a very poor display of subverting their own design guidelines.
The section on designing prestige classes explicitly reads:
"Don’t require levels in a specific class, minimum ability scores, or minimum hit points to qualify for a prestige class."
When only one class has Flurry of Blow and Still Mind, it rather makes the prestige class require levels in a specific class when those abilities are used.

Personally I agree that the difference is moot but I believe the implied difference is that someone could create a class that has flurry besides monks and have them qualify. They just never did that.

Oh and speaking of unarmed BAB and flurry. Most monk PrCs in 3.0 advanced unarmed BAB to allow the monk to keep his multiple attacks schtick but when updated to 3.5 none of them advance Flurry. WHY?!!

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Barbarians do not have evasion, either. Not even in 3.0, IIRC.

Also, a pure barbarian does not get the requisite ranks in Tumble until level 9.

Cityscape allows you to trade Ride for Tumble.

[Darrin]

Drunken Master presents several problems for optimization. I've tried a few times, but haven't quite gotten all the kinks out of it yet.

1) You get your unarmed damage + some bonus damage for improvised attacks, but don't actually get any proficiency with improvised weapons. This can be solved somewhat elegantly with the Brawler PrC (Dragon #295), or slightly less elegantly with Hulking Hurler or the City Brawler Barbarian variant (Dragon #349).

2) DM doesn't progress unarmed damage. You can fix this with Superior Unarmed Strike, which progresses your unarmed damage based on your character level, but doesn't work if you actually take levels of monk. You can get around not taking monk by picking up improved unarmed strike somewhere else, such as Battle Dancer (Dragon Compendium), Fist of the Forest (CompChamp), Shou Disciple (Unapproachable East), or the unarmed Swordsage variant (ToB).

3) No monk means no evasion, but you can pick up evasion with a two-level dip into Totemist (and a couple more soulmelds don't exactly hurt either). You could also pick up evasion with a dip into Incarnum or Shape Soulmeld + Open Least Chakra. There are a variety of other ways to pick up evasion. You still need Flurry of Blows, though, but you can get that with Disciple of the Eye (or possibly Shou Disciple, depending on how you interpret their Martial Flurry ability).

4) Drink like a demon leaves you just a few Wis/Int damage away from being helpless. And spending a move action to drink prevents you from full-attacking. A four-level dip into Psychic Warrior or Warmind gets you Hustle, though, which gives you extra move actions to drink. A two-level dip into Ardent + Practiced Manifester could also get you Hustle. Preventing the ability damage can be done the usual way: dip into Binder for Naberius, or Shape Soulmeld for Strongheart Vest.

Race: Silverbrow Human
Totemist 2/Psywar 4/Disciple of the Eye 1/Drunken Master 4/Brawler 1/Drunken Master +9/Something Else +2
Feats:
1) Shape Soulmeld: Strongheart Vest, Great Fortitude
3) Alertness, Improved Unarmed Strike
4) Combat Reflexes
6) Superior Unarmed Strike, Expeditious Dodge

[Xenogears]

Cityscape allows you to trade Ride for Tumble.

True but since we'd still need evasion feat rogue works better. Although both might be even better so as not to waste extra skill points by having it cross-class...unless AirGuitarGod wants his drunken one-eyed raging panda to ride a horse...

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Or.... ride a panda.

Incidentally, pandas are not technically bears, being more closely related to the raccoon family, so I'm not sure how well that would work out if he became a Bear Warrior.

Also,
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/thumb/8/8d/ChenArt.jpg/200px-ChenArt.jpg

Drunken Master presents several problems for optimization. I've tried a few times, but haven't quite gotten all the kinks out of it yet.
Your optimization-fu is weak compared to mine!

[Xenogears]

Or.... ride a panda.

Incidentally, pandas are not technically bears, being more closely related to the raccoon family, so I'm not sure how well that would work out if he became a Bear Warrior.

True but fluff is just fluff after all so refluffing brown bear to panda is the same wether it is actually a bear or not. Besides who says his DM has to know that. Now shush about it in case the DM reads these forums and decides AirGuitarGod can't play his panda.

[Tiktakkat]

Personally I agree that the difference is moot but I believe the implied difference is that someone could create a class that has flurry besides monks and have them qualify. They just never did that.

Oh and speaking of unarmed BAB and flurry. Most monk PrCs in 3.0 advanced unarmed BAB to allow the monk to keep his multiple attacks schtick but when updated to 3.5 none of them advance Flurry. WHY?!!

One or more of:
Poor Editing
Poor Product Line Supervision
Poor Design Ability
The slight mechanical difference between the two that made advancing it somewhat less critical

Given the sheer amount of material in splat books that was invalidated on release, I had severe doubts about the quality control of WotC as time progressed.


Incidentally, pandas are not technically bears, being more closely related to the raccoon family, so I'm not sure how well that would work out if he became a Bear Warrior.

They changed that again awhile back.
Pandas are Ursidae, but Ailuropoda instead of Ursus. (Same family, different genus.)

So panda bear warrior away!
Just make sure you have a ready supply of bamboo to eat.

[Xenogears]

One or more of:
Poor Editing
Poor Product Line Supervision
Poor Design Ability
The slight mechanical difference between the two that made advancing it somewhat less critical

Given the sheer amount of material in splat books that was invalidated on release, I had severe doubts about the quality control of WotC as time progressed.

But why the Monk? I love the monk. I know it sucks but its so fun. Atleast in 3.0 I could go Tattoeed Monk and lose the crappy later level abilities for the monk and get some fun somewhat better tats while gaining the best abilites of the monk (unarmed damage and more attacks...) Now? I need 11 levels of monk to get the extra attack.

[Tiktakkat]

But why the Monk? I love the monk. I know it sucks but its so fun. Atleast in 3.0 I could go Tattoeed Monk and lose the crappy later level abilities for the monk and get some fun somewhat better tats while gaining the best abilites of the monk (unarmed damage and more attacks...) Now? I need 11 levels of monk to get the extra attack.

That I cannot answer.
In 2nd edition it was marginalized because of the whole "default" European vs. Oriental Adventures deal. Obviously a bit of that crept into 3E with the Rokugan "experiment".
Part of it, I think, is the difference between "in the field" optimization combined with basic player desire (and contrariness), and "in the office" theorizing. A lot is regularly lost in translation between the two.
Part of that is because R&D rarely, if ever, plays the same "edition" that customers are playing. (Which also effects why sage advice is so often wrong.)
If R&D is off fiddling with unarmed swordsages, or a pack of house rules that never make it into print, they may never "recognize", let alone feel the need to acknowledge, the great suckitude that is monks RAW, prestige classes notwithstanding.

The specific reason though can only be found with the actual designers.

[Mongoose87]

things

He's using the 3.0 Drunken Master out of Sword and Fist. Much of what you said is, therefore invalid, though some of it is, I would expect, usually common sense hand-waived. Honestly, who will penalize him for using Improvised Weapons without proficiency when the RAI for Drunken Master is obviously supposed to be proficient.

[AirGuitarGod32]

This character seems amusing in a party with a Gnome WuJen or Half-Elf Sorcerer(This female PC remains undecided. Either my g/f or my best friend) a Human Factorum (I took barbarian!), an Elf Paladin, and a Half-Celestial Fave Soul

This may also be one of the scariest Drunken Master builds I personally have ever seen.

Before this, my buddy's Ranger5/Rogue5/Drunken Master10 was scary. He threw 200 pebbles as a shotgun burst and did seriously broken damage

[Xenogears]

Don't forget to try to convince the DM that you can wield the enemy against eachother. Then if you roll a Nat 1 the enemy your wielding breaks...

Okay it's just silly but thats why I like it.

[Zaq]

Don't forget to try to convince the DM that you can wield the enemy against eachother. Then if you roll a Nat 1 the enemy your wielding breaks...

Okay it's just silly but thats why I like it.

Or go Saturday Morning Evil and wield babies as improvised weapons. This is my favorite use of Drunken Master.

(Runner-up: using eggs as improvised weapons. They only break on a 1!)

[Xenogears]

Or go Saturday Morning Evil and wield babies as improvised weapons. This is my favorite use of Drunken Master.

(Runner-up: using eggs as improvised weapons. They only break on a 1!)

Since they don't mention using improvised weapons as ranged weapons does that mean you are gonna hold the egg in your hand and smack people with it?

I once spent a while trying to justify why a drunken master I was trying to make would have a magical chair leg made of that metal from BoED that lets you reform it. Something about his master being assassinated while making the chair because the Guild of Chair Makers didn't like him butting in so my character now wields the chair leg (It got enchanted later just masterwork at first) to enact his revenge...

[Zaq]

Since they don't mention using improvised weapons as ranged weapons does that mean you are gonna hold the egg in your hand and smack people with it?

Yes. That is exactly the image I had in mind.

Also note that the egg only breaks on a nat 1, so it's when you miss your enemy's face that the egg breaks. Not when you hit it. (I know that a nat 1 miss isn't necessarily a miss-by-a-mile whiff, but it's funnier that way, and this is all about the comedic mental images, so I'm imagining our drunken friend swinging with his egg, hitting nothing but air, at which point the damn thing shatters.)

[Xenogears]

Yes. That is exactly the image I had in mind.

Also note that the egg only breaks on a nat 1, so it's when you miss your enemy's face that the egg breaks. Not when you hit it. (I know that a nat 1 miss isn't necessarily a miss-by-a-mile whiff, but it's funnier that way, and this is all about the comedic mental images, so I'm imagining our drunken friend swinging with his egg, hitting nothing but air, at which point the damn thing shatters.)

Imagine using the critical fumble rules. You roll two ones and hit yourself in the face and the egg finally shatters. Bonus points if you knock yourself unconscious.

[Mongoose87]

Something just occurred to me: If you brewed your own booze, would a Drunken Master not be "useful" with VoP, specifically, the ability that makes your attacks magical?

[Xenogears]

Something just occurred to me: If you brewed your own booze, would a Drunken Master not be "useful" with VoP, specifically, the ability that makes your attacks magical?

Well it would still have all the same problems as a regular VoP character. No flight, miss chances, less bang for your buck in general, etc. Also then you can't have the tankard of infinite libations or whatever the infinite booze item is. That said the magical attacks might help out but hed do better getting a party member to cast Greater Magic Weapon on the stick he just picked up.

[Optimystik]

With VoP, use Battle Dancer (DrgComp) instead - they get a flight speed (Dance of the Soaring Eagle), full BAB, Monk AC, speed and Unarmed progression, Pounce, and can choose other materials for their damage aura that complement the Exalted Strike bonuses. (e.g. a Battle Dancer 18 can have an unarmed strike that counts as good-aligned, magic, chaotic and adamantine.)

[Xenogears]

With VoP, use Battle Dancer (DrgComp) instead - they get a flight speed (Dance of the Soaring Eagle), full BAB, Monk AC, speed and Unarmed progression, Pounce, and can choose other materials for their damage aura that complement the Exalted Strike bonuses. (e.g. a Battle Dancer 18 can have an unarmed strike that counts as good-aligned, magic, chaotic and adamantine.)

They do hafta succeed on tumble checks for any of their abilities to work but yes it would work better since the checks are stupid easy to make if you keep up with tumble scores. Note that their abilities key off of Cha instead of Wis though and that they now need to be chaotic.

[AirGuitarGod32]

Recent Rules by my illustrious DM:

1. Panda counts as a bear, therefore replaces Black Bear as rage-shape (can someone homebrew the stats for a panda?)

2. Uses either 3.0 or 3.5 Drunken Master, minus the 3.0 version drops the Unarmed BAB requisite

3. According to him, Lion Totem Barbarian and Feat Rogue exist now, even though "Variants must be Unlocked," because the combo made him snot 7Up, he gave 'em to me.

I just want to know if the feat selection is good, and what items should I look for?

[Xenogears]

Just curious but did they change bear warrior much when it got updated to 3.5? Because in my copy of OA a lvl 2 Bear warrior can only enter bear form 1/day. Also it says your items meld with you and become useless so stock up on wilding clasps I suppose. Unless they changed stuff in 3.5.

Also might want to consider going:
Lion Totem Barb 4/Feat Rogue 2/ Drunken Master X/ Bear Warrior X

Maybe alternate levels of bear warrior and drunken master. Levels 5 and 6 of barb get you improved uncanny dodge (good but not amazing) and.... one more to trap sense...oh and DR1/-. So it might be better to fit more bear warrior in as according to the OA version the now 5 levels of bear warrior would get you the second bear form, extra raging and a second use of bear form.

Of course Bear warrior has probably been greatly altered turning ninety percent of my post into meaningless drivel knowing my luck but whatever...

[Mongoose87]

The 3.5 Bear Warrior, assuming Errata is used, allows you to bear-down every time you rage.

[Xenogears]

The 3.5 Bear Warrior, assuming Errata is used, allows you to bear-down every time you rage.

Well thats much better than the old 3.0 one which gave you three uses if you went all the way to lvl 10 with it. Granted +20 str was cool...

[AirGuitarGod32]

I like the 3.5 Bear Warrior, since I can Bear-Down as many times as I can Rage. And in the form of a Drunk Panda, I think he will not be allowed in certain cities due to these drunken antics.

[Xenogears]

I like the 3.5 Bear Warrior, since I can Bear-Down as many times as I can Rage. And in the form of a Drunk Panda, I think he will not be allowed in certain cities due to these drunken antics.

You've got to wonder how many normal barbarians they would appreciate raging in their cities though... especially drunken ones. Hey if it's a low magic city you can feign ignorance and blame it on wild bear attacks...

[AirGuitarGod32]

You've got to wonder how many normal barbarians they would appreciate raging in their cities though... especially drunken ones. Hey if it's a low magic city you can feign ignorance and blame it on wild bear attacks...

thats clever

[Darrin]

He's using the 3.0 Drunken Master out of Sword and Fist. Much of what you said is, therefore invalid, though some of it is, I would expect, usually common sense hand-waived. Honestly, who will penalize him for using Improvised Weapons without proficiency when the RAI for Drunken Master is obviously supposed to be proficient.

I'd suggest looking closely at Shou Disciple in Unapproachable East, then. Although technically the book was updated to 3.5, the text for Shou Disciple wasn't updated and assumes 3.0 monk abilities... depending on how you interpret it, a 3-level dip gives a non-monk the Flurry ability (with any light martial weapon) and an Unarmed Base Attack Bonus... in addition to full BAB and a bonus feat.

A Battledancer/Shou Disciple with Superior Unarmed Strike gives you everything you could possibly want from a monk with full BAB and an unarmed strike that advances by character level. Should be a pretty good lead-in to Drunken Master. Add a couple levels of Brawler (Dragon #295) and you get explicit proficiency with improvised weapons and the ability to use Weapon Focus/Improved Critical and other weapon-specific feats to improvised weapons.