PDA

View Full Version : [3e]Spearman build help



Biotroll
2010-01-04, 04:23 PM
Hi there. After some time making DM for my group it seems I will have a chance to play again. What I ask you here is build for some kind of fighting guy who uses polearms (spear is the most wanted for me but maybe I can just refluf few things here or there).

The game starts at 5 lvl. I want to play human, but if you wish you can change the race. WBL as usual and rolled scores are those:

16
10
13
12
15
16

I'm not banning anything but I own only core thingies with old 3.0 Masters of Wild and Defenders of Faith. Feats and items from other sources then this should be ok but I'm affraid any ToB class won't be alowed (you know, melee can't have good things). Our group will be short of casters (one druid and one cleric) so I would like to be quite independent if possible.

Thanks for help. :smallsmile:

Thurbane
2010-01-04, 09:09 PM
Greatspear is not a bad exotic weapon for this build (CW), and the Short Haft feat (PHB II) may be worthwhile. An issue of Dragon had a bunch of polearm feats, many of which were reprinted in the Dragon Magazine Compendium hardcover.

Maybe head into the Exotic Weapon Master PrC (CW) to pick up some tricks with your Greatspear.

AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-04, 09:33 PM
I second Greatspear, however, my DM came up with the Dwarven Double Greatspear, combining greatspear with a second tip

gallagher
2010-01-04, 10:37 PM
Hi there. After some time making DM for my group it seems I will have a chance to play again. What I ask you here is build for some kind of fighting guy who uses polearms (spear is the most wanted for me but maybe I can just refluf few things here or there).

Thanks for help. :smallsmile:

might i suggest the The Whole Bunch of Weapons Duct-Taped Together (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60864)

graeylin
2010-01-04, 10:46 PM
Magic Item compendium: get the magic changeling spear feature placed on a magical spear. once each round, you can make it into a longspear, shortspear, or normal spear. hit em as a pole arm w/reach, then next round, get em with your shortspear within 5 foot. never again be afraid of using a pole arm.

add the impaling feature for more goodly fun, and ignore armor bonuses 3 times a day.

for even more fluff, make him a duskblade.. sure, you miss some fighter feats and a few hit points, but the BAB is the same, armor is decent at 5th level, and you can cast some spells, and do more damage with that spear. Not the best choice, but a fun one...

Forevernade
2010-01-04, 11:13 PM
Is there a way you can make a Shifter druid good with a spear? I was thinking of going a Aspect of Nature for Speed and Vigor with my Wolverine Shape for bite for max strength bonuses, Power Attack etc for a Casting Ubercharger? Would this work? Can someone help me out on this one? Maybe loose one level of druid for Waretouched Master or Warshaper, or is that not worth loosing the CL?

Acero
2010-01-04, 11:28 PM
just a hint while fighting skeletons. they can be a pain.

stab 'em through the ribs. you now have leverage. smash them into walls/floor
an extra 4d6 bludgeon. :smallbiggrin:

just make sure you pass it w/ the DM :smallcool:

Human Paragon 3
2010-01-05, 12:05 AM
I had a very effective level 5 spearman build that actually uses the Guissarme to make many trip attacks at range and really control the battlefield. The whole point of a spear, IMO is to keep the enemy at bay, and this build performed admirably in that regard. I used the Whilring Frenzy alternate class feature to get an extra attack each round, which was key at low levels for boosting damage. Here's the build:

Trippy McSpearman

Human Barbarian 1/Fighter 4

STR 16
DEX 15(16 thanks to level bump)
CON 16
INT 13
WIS 12
CHA 10

H: Dodge
1st: Combat Reflexes
Barb: Frenzy
F1: Improved Unarmed Strike
F2: Combat Expertise
3rd: Improved Trip
F4: Defensive Throw


Improved Unarmed Strike is helpful for when enemies manage to close within the 5ft range. You'll threaten way more square that way, too. It's also a prereq for the great Defensive Throw which will give you a free trip attempt every time an enemy misses you in combat. Between good dex, the dodge feat, and the dex boost from whirling frenzy and the dodge bonus from whirling frenzy you'll be getting plenty of free trip attempts.

From there I would recommend some prestige class or just more barbarian. Pick up power attack at level 6, and you should be solid.

One strange suggestion, to play up the role of the speedy and versatile spearman who's anywhere he needs to be: Take a couple skill tricks from complete scoundrel. Nimble Stand and Nimble Charge will help you mitigate the effects of being tripped back yourself and make it easier for you to get into position to fight. Then you can take the Battle Trickster feat to grab two more bonus skill tricks and a bonus feat. A lot better than fighter, anyway.

You can trade Ride for tumble via the cityscape web enhancement to qualify for the skill tricks you want.

Eldariel
2010-01-05, 12:18 AM
To do that with a spear, add Knock-Down (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown) and ensure you've got enough bonuses to deal that 10 damage per hit. Shouldn't be hard with a two-handed Longspear.

Human Paragon 3
2010-01-05, 12:30 AM
Yes, adding knockdown is a great idea.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-01-05, 12:48 AM
For a build lacking spellcasting I'd go Wolf Totem Barbarian (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wolfTotemClassFeatures ) 2/ Ranger 3/ Horizon Walker 7+, and then probably more Ranger. Use the Strong-Arm combat style (http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Classes-Base.pdf) (page 100) to get Power Attack at Ranger 2. Take Jotunbrud (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Jotunbrud) and Wolf Berseker (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Wolf_Berserker) at level 1, Knock-Down (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown) at 3, Combat Reflexes at 6, Extra Rage (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Extra_Rage) at both 9 and 12, and Quicken Spell-Like Ability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#quickenSpellLikeAbility): Dimension Door for your Shifting terrain mastery at 15, which you won't be able to use until 16. If you can take Flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) you should have Extra Rage at least once starting out, maybe get two flaws to move Combat Reflexes earlier and grab Extend Rage (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Extend_Rage) later on. Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) is also a strong choice, and very fitting for this sort of character.

If you want to use spellcasting, go Cleric into Stormlord from Complete Divine. Start out with Divine Metamagic: Persistent, using flaws if you have to. The build should probably go something like Cleric 5 or 6/ Stormlord 9/ Contemplative. Focus your spells on buffing and definitely use Persistent Stormrage later on. Get a set of Gloves of Endless Javelins from MIC so you won't have to carry any with you and can full attack with them without taking Quick-Draw.

arguskos
2010-01-05, 01:32 AM
My favorite pole-arm user recently has been a Half-Ogre with Knockdown. Using a reach weapon, PA, Combat Reflexes, and Knockdown, you can control a battlefield rather nicely. It's cool stuff. I personally like using a Lucerne Hammer, just cause it's 2d4/x4 with reach. :smallamused:

BooNL
2010-01-05, 02:41 AM
Planar Handbook has the Ripper, which is basically a piercing greatsword statwise (and martial to boot!). It looks like a spear with a wider tip and shorter shaft.

It's one of my favourite weapons and usually refluff it as a 'heavy' or 'close-combat' spear. Ripper is such a terrible name...

Ormagoden
2010-01-05, 01:00 PM
I have a duskblade reach weapon wielder in one of my home games.
Since we have a large group the role of caster and meat shield warrior were taken. I opted to play a duskblade with reach that formed the second rank he'd poke and zap the enemies from the relative safety of being behind the fighter. When we are light on ranged I ray from behind the fighter. When I have to close in I use a greatsword.

His build is trip based which helps his supporting role with the party. I suppose without being a duskblade your role would be supporting as well.
If you have a barbarian or fighter in your party charge right in after them and back them up. Use trip to keep would be flankers at bay and provide your meat sheild warrior with AOOs

Specifically some feats that come to mind are:

Combat expertise
Improved trip
Improved disarm
Lunging strike
Short haft

If you have Weapon focus and Weapon specializations for the spear a good synergy feat is Hurling charge. It allows you to throw a weapon at your charge target as part of a charge.
Spears are awesome throwing weapons and more so with weapon focus and specialization.

Granted this stuff isn't optimized but you'll get more mileage out of your spear(s) should you use these options.

Biotroll
2010-01-05, 01:52 PM
So how about 2 Barbarian (wolf totem with whirling frenzy intstead of rage)/3 fighter for those feats:

1lvl Weapon focus (spear)
1lvl (human) Combat reflexes
2lvl (wolf totem) improved trip
3lvl short haft
3lvl (fighter 1) dodge
4lvl (fighter 2) knock-down

and then at lvl 6 defensive trow and Lunging strike (for fighter lvl 4). Then take a 2 lvls in ranger (strong-arm combat style) and go to Horizon walker? Huf. Having power attack at lvl 8 is quite meh, but I think with all trips here and there it shouldn't be that big problem. With 4lvls of fighter I should go for weapon specializations later on.

So just few last questions about Greatspear. I found it at D&D wiki and it's listed as 2D6/x3 Martial weapon with no reach. Is it right? Because if yes, long spear will be better choice. (When at frenzy I should do at least 9 points of damage given that I will have at last +1 longspear so knock-down should be almost automatic. With greatspear it will be automatic but with no reach it won't be really that good.)

Incorrect
2010-01-05, 01:54 PM
I would refluff a spiked chain as a "hooked swordstaff" or the like.
It does swallow an EWP, but you wont have to take Short Haft.

And of cause, as with all feats, stay away from static feats like Specialization, its not worth it at high levels.

Person_Man
2010-01-05, 02:48 PM
Here are some additional class combos for your consideration:

Totemist 5
Psychic Warrior 5
Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109429) 5
Binder 5
Paladin 5/Knight of the Iron Glacier 1
Paladin 5/Aglarondan Griffin Rider 2
Lion Totem Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/Paladin of Freedom 2
Fighter 6 (Dungeoncrasher variant)
Marshal 1/Paladin 4
Factotum 3/Rogue 2/Ranger 2
Factotum 3/Marshal 1/Paladin 2 (if you happen to roll very high across the board)

Which class combo you choose should depend on your attributes and build goals. Do you want direct damage, battlefield control, tanking, or some combination of the three?

Anywho, I personally would not take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Greatspear), Weapon Focus, and Short Haft, as I don't believe that they are worth the return on investment. The damage and To-Hit bonuses are minuscule, and in the vast majority of cases, you can just take a 5 ft step to reposition yourself when you need to. And at this ECL, it's not like your magic spear is going to be impressive anyway. I would just use a standard long spear (or better yet, a lance, which is essentially just a longspear that deals double damage from horseback), and use armor spikes, spiked gauntlets, normal spears, javalins, and nets as backup weapons.

I would also add that Knock-Down is indeed an excellent feat. But Trip combos generally don't work well unless you have plenty of size, reach, and miscellaneous modifiers, and your build lacks all of them. So unless you have someone buffing you, I would look elsewhere or re-work your class choices.

Smythen
2010-01-11, 07:05 AM
Monkey grip to wield a long spear in one hand.
Now you can fight with a spiked shield, that gives good ac and threatens 5feet with bashes.

Eldariel
2010-01-11, 07:12 AM
Monkey grip to wield a long spear in one hand.
Now you can fight with a spiked shield, that gives good ac and threatens 5feet with bashes.

Monkey Grip doesn't work like that. Also, it'd be more efficient to just use Armor Spikes to threaten adjacent than go through all that trouble; Animated Shields make a wielded shield quite unnecessary come level 10 or so.

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-11, 09:21 AM
For a spear, Take the Ripper. 2D6 but no reach. it's martial and can be found in the Planar Handbook.


I would like to throw my hat into recommending Duskblade for a decent melee class.

Smythen
2010-01-12, 03:30 AM
Monkey Grip doesn't work like that. Also, it'd be more efficient to just use Armor Spikes to threaten adjacent than go through all that trouble; Animated Shields make a wielded shield quite unnecessary come level 10 or so.

Monkey grip works that way, according to players handbook II...
And what if you dont get an animated shield? I dont see that a single feat is all that trouble, and then again its a lot cooler than fighting with a spiked chain.

Sir Homeslice
2010-01-12, 04:55 AM
Monkey grip works that way, according to players handbook II...

No, Monkey Grip does NOT work that way.

Eldariel
2010-01-12, 05:05 AM
Monkey Grip lets you use weapon of one size category larger than normal without changing the handedness. So you could wield a Large Longspear in two hands. You could also wield a Large Spear in two hands. This has no bearing upon how you wield medium weapons.

As for not getting an Animated Shield, there's always Improved Buckler Defense. But frankly, I'd ignore AC at that point, especially without castings of Magic Vestment. It just gets too expensive.

Smythen
2010-01-12, 07:29 AM
sry, the version of MG i was refering to is from Complete Warrior. Ill post a refference when i get to my books.
I have seen other versions og MG that doesnt specify that you can use a twohanded weapon single handed, but the one i have do.

Eldariel
2010-01-12, 07:42 AM
You may be thinking of the 3.0 version, but it only worked differently because weapon size categories worked differently in 3.0. CW version has the following line:
"You can use melee weapons one size category larger than you are with a –2 penalty on the attack roll, but the amount of effort it takes you to use the weapon does not change."

It doesn't alter anything but your ability to wield weapons one category larger than you. And the newer Weapons of Legacy version has pretty much identical wording. Sword & Fist version from old edition works as you claim, but it's been reprinted twice since and newer version takes precedence.

Smythen
2010-01-12, 07:47 AM
"For instance, a Large longsword (a one-handed weapon for
a large creature) is considered a two-handed weapon for a
Medium creature that does not have this feat.
For a Medium creature that has this feat, it is still
considered a one-handed weapon."

I gues you are right, it was my interpretation of the above that had me going.
With a little convincing the DM it might work though.