A fun melee build (Lv 10-11)

[Zaydos]

Assuming you'd rolled these stats:
17
17
16
13
13
13

And wanted to make a fun to play and interesting melee build. Not crusader or swordsage (just cause I did crusader in a 1 shot once and don't fill like playing one again for a while, and the party would already have an unarmed swordsage). Assume all books nominally open (no Weapons of Legacy though), as well as alignments, but campaign setting books on a case by case basis.

This is just in case my wizard (in a level 9 campaign) either: 1) epic fails and dies, or 2) epic wins at life and gets boring because of it. As such it is unlikely to actually be Lv 9 when put into use, but more likely 10 or higher and a build that hits its stride by at least 11th level would be prefered. Assume at this point just skills, feats, races, classes as the wealth level in the campaign is above WBL and includes a +10,000 GP backstory bonus that cannot be used on simple items to directly increase power. Also assume that the player irrational dislikes limited use items and will forget to use them/hoard them throughout the campaign and never use them.

And I will admit this is partially just because I'm bored and seeing some neat warrior builds will excite me.

[Human Paragon 3]

I'm playing my monkey king build right now, a factotum/monk/tattoed monk. Decisive strike plus cunning insight make him a very powerful melee character, and he's got great skills to boot, so there's always something interesting to do with him.

The Monkey King (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107911)

However, the build I am using differs slightly from the build I outlined in that thread. Here it is:


The Monkey King

Factotum 3/Monk 2/Tattooed Monk 9/Factotum 5

Flaw: (Bizarre Appearance) Font of Inspiration
Flaw: (Pathetic Wis) Font of Inspiration
1 Open Minded
H Knowledge Devotion
F1 Cunning Insight, Cunning Knowledge
3 Kung Fu Genius
M1 Improved Grapple, Decisive Strike
F3 Cunning Defense, Brains Over Brawn
M2 Combat Reflexes, Evasion
6 Endurance
9 Power Attack
12 Stunning Fist
15 Font of Inspiration
18 Font of Inspiration

Bizarre Appearance (-4 to Diplomacy and Disguise checks)



Tattoos:
Bell Flower (T/day gain CHA bonus to any ability)
Chameleon (T/day Alter self 1 hour/level)
Monkey (+T to 10 different skills)
Tortoise (T/day use your class level instead of skill ranks)
Wasp (Haste yourself tattoo/day)

[Zincorium]

I've wanted to play a Totemist (from magic of Incarnum) for a while- you get lots of natural weapons available. And Incarnum is a lot easier than people usually think- if you can play a 1st level wizard, you can play a level 20 incarnate.

Maybe even combine it with barbarian for the Totem Rager prc.

[Eldariel]

Ruby Knight Vindicator would be really nice at that point. Drunken Master would be totally super special awesome, as long as you get creative with your weaponry. Combine with Unarmed Swordsage for lots of fun.

Warblade-based melee type could also be amusing. Maybe Warblade/Deepstone Sentinel or even Master of the Nine.

[Zaydos]

@Gaurd Juris: Looks neat, but with the unarmed swordsage in the party I'd rather not be a monk. I know it would be different (Int based factotum neatness and skill tricks ahoy) but still a little too close. I do love the Son Wukong though.

@Zincorium: I'll have to look into Totemist and Totem Rager again. Toyed with it before but couldn't quite make a pure totemist that kept up the damage but the combination might do better. MoI just confuses me a little (only used it twice as a DM). I know Girallon Arms are supposed to be good any others?

@Eldariel: Ruby Knight could be fun either IL 8 and 8th level casting or lower casting for higher CL. Drunken Master has always seemed like an awesome prestige class and I could have fun with it but with an unarmed swordsage I'd rather do something a little different. How good is Deepstone Sentinel? I know it uses a lot of Stone Dragon which means no flight and the powers are lost if you aren't in contact with the ground. As for Master of Nine any tips on getting in easily?

Edit: In the adaptation it talks about making a warblade version of Ruby Knight. How much do you think this would affect the power (cause it seems fun)?

[Eldariel]

Deepstone Sentinel is fine as long as you don't focus on it too much; as you pointed out, it's not amazing when not in contact with the ground and that happens a lot. It's still a fine martial adept though, and if you can handwave the Stone Dragon limitation, it becomes a rather good class.

Master of the Nine; well, a small dip in Unarmed Swordsage would get you Improved Unarmed Strike and cover enough schools to qualify you (although if you take maneuvers from all 5 Warblade-schools, you only need 1 Martial Study to qualify). Monk is likewise a decent dip option as is the Fighter. Warblade bonus feats can cover some entry requirements too. Early entry tho? With so many 10s in skills, it becomes extremely difficult and you're pretty much limited to stupid HD-increasing tricks. So level 8 seems like the earliest you can enter, but that means you can get enough levels in to get some fun stuff (though you might want to save some levels for the later to get high-level maneuvers from your off-schools).

And Ruby Knight Vindicator Warblade...well, it depends on how you qualify. It might be slightly stronger than standard Crusader-entry if you need to waste no extra resources getting in, since Devoted Spirit is quite redundant with Clerical casting and Warblade's inferior recovery is empowered by the Swift Action-ability to burn Turn Undead-uses for recovery; that just leaves you with a couple of extra schools, which are all quite nice (but if Ruby Knight schools remain the same, you'll really gain no advantage from them and are indeed worse off than a straight Crusader since to pursue Devoted Spirit, you'd need to start up from 0 there; if you alter Ruby Knight schools to match Warblade+Shadow Hand, it becomes stronger). So, no huge power fluctuations; depends on how much you change.

[Zincorium]

@Zincorium: I'll have to look into Totemist and Totem Rager again. Toyed with it before but couldn't quite make a pure totemist that kept up the damage but the combination might do better. MoI just confuses me a little (only used it twice as a DM). I know Girallon Arms are supposed to be good any others?

Landshark boots are the best single natural weapon soulmeld- it only does D6 damage, but if as part of a move, you can jump a measly 5 feat, you get four attacks, all at full BAB and all get full strength to damage. If you're willing to provoke attacks of opportunity, you can jump all over the battlefield wreaking carnage.

Beyond that, the Expanded Soulmeld Capacity feat is your best friend. As a 2nd level totemist, you can put up to three points of essentia (if you have them) into your totem-bound soulmeld. That means a +3 enhancement bonus for multiple natural weapons.

I can't name a single other class that is capable of getting that so early. And it continues scaling- +7 at 18th level, as it is not a magic item. For what is equivalently four weapons.

Beyond that, you get an additional point of damage for each point invested in cobalt rage while you are raging- and you get free essentia to put into cobalt rage when you use it. win-win. You can get additional damage, when you can bind two soulmelds to your totem chakra, from heart of fire at a d4 per point of incarnum- and you're looking at a capacity of 6 at 18th.

[AslanCross]

I'd go with a Warforged Warblade. You can go many ways from there. Maybe a warblade focusing on Tiger Claw going into Dervish. (Swordsage is actually better for Dervish due to free Weapon Focus, but you specified you didn't want it.)

Alternatively, go Warblade/Fighter. Try to put together a ToB version of Jack B. Quick, the High Sword Low Axe tripper. More interesting and more challenging than the spiked chain tripper.

[Zaydos]

@Eldariel: Thanks. I like Iron Heart Surge and warblade flavor but hear enough about how powerful Ruby Knight is already that I don't want to ask the DM for a buff on that. Still got to think about straight Ruby Knight (maybe even of Wee Jas, the campaign setting has a fairly open "You can worship your imaginary friend" policy).

@Zincorum: I'll have to try statting out a MoI build again. I don't have the hang of it which is the biggest problem (Bo9S is much easier for me to grasp; and I grew up with Vancian casting so I understand it).

@AslanCross: I'd heard of Jack B. Quick but never looked at him before. It looks pretty. The idea of working warblade in seems cool and I'll have to start looking into it. I'd feel bad using the exact build regardless, but do like the idea of High Sword Low Axe tripping... has an almost wolf-like feel.

[AslanCross]

Glad you liked it. :D Keep in mind that ToB explicitly forbids the use of special attacks such as tripping, disarming and grappling in conjunction with maneuvers unless the maneuver calls for them. However, High Sword Low Axe seems to be an exception as the trip comes AFTER the maneuver, and so does the follow up attack. (Run this by your DM, though.)

[Prime32]

Why not try a psychic warrior? You can get some interesting builds out of that class.

[Tokiko Mima]

You could try my recent thought experiment, a Monk 2/Warlock 5/Apostle of Peace 2/Eldritch Disciple 8/Hellfire Warlock 3. You'd be an exalted Vow of Poverty/Peace/Nonviolence Glaivelock that does get access to 9th level divine spells. The Apostle of Peace text seems to suggest that you can wear "defensive items" (ring of protection/bracers of armor are cited) despite your Vow of Poverty, which makes VoP hurt less. You could only use your Eldritch Blast on undead and constructs though, unless your DM approves a way to apply Nonlethal Substitution to SLA's. So this build is ideal if fighting a warforged/construct army, or in Ravenloft.

Alternately, go full Glaivelock or Warlock/Ur-Priest/Eldritch Disciple. You have to be evil for Ur-Priest, but sometimes that's a lot of fun!

[Ianuagonde]

I'm surprised no-one suggested Duskblade. Channeling spells with melee attacks results is very good damage. It gives all martial weapons, armor profs and the ability to cast in medium armor. You also get all knowledge skills (and you need Int for spells), free quicken a few times a day, and some utility spells. My party is very happy with Resist Energy and Dimension Hops. With a spiked chain, Combat Reflexes/Improved Trip, you get nice crowd control, with the ability to go nova. A signature move for my characters is a quickened Dimension Hop to get next to the Big Bad, and attack with a Vampiric Touch channeled.

Also, don't forget you can activate Eternal Wands from the MIC.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wild Shape Ranger/ Master of Many Forms is decent at that level, though you're just short of the really fun stuff. Maybe go Human Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) MoMF 7/ Warshaper 3, ideally with LA buyoff.

Not necessarily a Swordsage, but an Arcane Swordsage would be just amazing. Use Greater Magic Weapon, the Heart of- line of spells, Greater Dispel Magic (5th from the Dread Necro list), Draconic Polymorph, and you'd even be able to get Ruby Ray of Reversal. Play it as a Gish who never runs out of spells, and you won't really be stealing anyone else's shtick.

[Zaydos]

@AslanCross: If I do go for a Jack B. Quick style build I'll probably go fighter and swap two fighter levels for barbarian with ACFs (Wolf Totem from Unearthed Arcana for Improved Trip with the better hp and rage; also try and get Lion Spirit Totem from Complete Champion for Pounce) and ask about the wolf lodge berserker feat for more tripping fun. I might even go with a +1 LA Str increasing template, but the only one with a good Str increase I know of is Half-Minotaur which is a little ridiculous.

@Prime32: Might, I know I like expansion and getting better powers with levelling would be nice. I'll have to look into it.

@Tokiko Mima: That looks... -twitch-... well except for the interparty conflicts that would arise and getting the DM to okay the reading that says you can use defensive items with VoP actually quite fun. He's a warlock fan and I know he'd allow a subduing blast as a least invocation so I could beat people senseless with the sacred fires of hell... which is appealing but Vow of Peace is bound to cause some problems. Evil Ur-Priest would work better with the party, but might feel too much like a caster. Don't know.

@Ianuagonde: Duskblades look neat. I've played a straight "I hit you, you die" duskblade twice in one-shots (usually taking Battle Caster to cast in heavy armor). They worked well, but both times they were in a party with a warblade and at least one other melee character. I had one in my last campaign that didn't do so well. He sacked his shield for a two-handed weapon, didn't have power attack, and tried to tank things trusting to +1 Full-Plate to keep him from being hit... at 6th/7th level (at the time it was a low wealth campaign, right before he died I realized just how low and started boosting the wealth I put in). He was the only melee character out of 8~10 though with the only person picking up the slack being the DMPC warlock who would wade in to melee and heal him (better AC, DR, but no melee attacks).

@Biffoniacus_Furiou: I think my DM would hit me with a book (probably my dictionary actually) if I tried the Divine Minion one (also he'd definitely make me take a level in something first to take Alertness and Endurance but that wouldn't be too bad X 1/Master of Many Forms 7/Warshaper 1 assuming no LA buy off). As for Arcane Swordsage, assuming I played it as intended and focused on self-buffing transmutation it might avoid being too powerful but I doubt he'd allow it. The draconic polymorph idea sounds fun, but that's my current character's big guns and if I end up retiring him because he's too strong then I wouldn't want to repeat it.

All in all, while Apostle of Peace with Hellfire really appeals to me, I'll probably either go Warblade (it's an easy way to make a good working melee combatant), a Duskblade or Psychic Warrior with Spiked Chain, or a Fighter/Barbarian using High Sword Low Axe. I will ask about LA buy off. Any good LA +1 or +2 templates to increase strength? I know of mineral warrior and Dragon #313's half-minotaur template (I jokingly brought it up to my DM... he's thinking about it :smalleek:), but I've not really played since well I got Dragon Magazine #313 about 2 weeks before I started DMing so 5 or so years and so I'm not familiar with LA for melee combatant templates (my players normally just played humans and elves). If I go for High Sword Low Axe I need the bonus feat but with LA buy off (or half-minotaur without it) it might be fun to be something more exotic.

[MichielHagen]

Wizard 2/Warblade 4/Abjurant Champion 5

Lots of options, you lose 4 spellcasting levels so no worries about being too powerful ;)

[gallagher]

is it too late to suggest a master thrower? i dont know if you can rock it at level 8 and meet all the requirements, but i can imagine that the throw anything feat is quite fun

i can imagine a half orc master thrower throwing a halfling

[Thurbane]

How about a Binder, going into the Knight of the Sacred Seal PrC? A lot of vestiges give good melee options (Savnok, Paimon, Andras, Eurynome, Eligor), and plenty of versatility.

Binder X/KotSS 5

STR 17
DEX 13
CON 17
INT 13
WIS 13
CHA 16

...also, I'm going to pimp Hellbred as the race. A hellbred with the Body aspect gets +2 CON -2 INT, and his bonus Devil Touched feats are very handy for melee (especially Devil's Flesh and Devil's Stamina).

I made a thread about it a while back.