How to put an "End" to Frenzy?

[SethFahad]

Just been curius end lazy to search for my self...
Is there a way to end a FB frenzy? I mean through interaction or spells (charm, calm...berserker, bale polymorph into squirrel) or diplomacy :smalltongue: ?

[Keld Denar]

While it doesn't end it, Grease is a simple matter that makes the FB ineffectual. Grease requires a balance check to move off of it. Since you can't make balance checks while in a frenzy, the FB can't move off of the grease square. Grease lasts minutes per level, so in general you can just wait out the frenzy.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Rounds per level, actually. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/grease.htm)

Those rounds do give you a head start to run away, though.

[SurlySeraph]

Cast Calm Emotions. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/calmEmotions.htm)

[Glimbur]

I'm fond of the idea of pre-buffing your frenzied berserker with Levitate. Then when the baddies are done, the wizard uses a move action and lifts him off the ground. This works just fine until the berserker can fly. It's also pretty expensive on your second level spell slots if you're wandering around all day and don't know when combat will happen.

[GoatBoy]

For my Berserker, I planned to check with the DM about purchasing an item that casts Calm Emotions when triggered by a remote device, carried by another member of the group.

I'd call it a Collar of Hurt Feelings.

[Eldariel]

+18 Will-save and Pride-domain granted ability. Simple as 1-2-3.

[Solaris]

With the Sleepy-Time Rock.

"RARGHBLOODFORTHEBLOODGO-" *Thunk*
"Naps for the Nap God!"

[SethFahad]

+18 Will-save and Pride-domain granted ability. Simple as 1-2-3.

Eh? Sorry, I missed you completely. Can you explain?http://forum.etudierenitalie.org/smileys/F9.gif

[Eldariel]

Eh? Sorry, I missed you completely. Can you explain?

FB himself can end it quite easily by choosing to do so. Pride-domain allows him to reroll 1s on Will-saves, making success virtually guaranteed. Now, if you're talking about a hostile FB, then yeah, Calm Emotions is one of the very few means of actually ending the Frenzy. Flight + Dispel allows you to keep just about any Berserkers calm though, as does Dispel+Quickened Grease.

[TheCountAlucard]

Disintegrate. :smallamused:

[Kelb_Panthera]

How is it that a FB can't make a balance check while in a frenzy? It doesn't require concentration and it's a dex based skill.

[SethFahad]

How is it that a FB can't make a balance check while in a frenzy? It doesn't require concentration and it's a dex based skill.

He can't. Look below:


While frenzied, the character cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Intimidate), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can she cast spells, drink potions, activate magic items, or read scrolls. She can use any feat she has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, or metamagic feats.

[Cyclocone]

Steadfast Determination +Pride Domain.

...Or Iron Heart Surge.

[lord_khaine]

Steadfast Determination +Pride Domain.

...Or Iron Heart Surge.

You cant use Iron Heart Surge since it requires an action, and while under a Frenzy you are required to use those to hurt people.

[Dimers]

I hope it's not threadjacking to ask ... why can't the berserker initially jump out of the greased area? Text only says "A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Balance check. Failure means it can't move that round ..." If you never try to walk through, you don't have to make the Balance check, and the failure text doesn't apply. Even from standing still, that Str-based jump check should be quite easy to make.

[sobebop]

athletics FTW!

[Killer Angel]

I hope it's not threadjacking to ask ... why can't the berserker initially jump out of the greased area?

If grease were before in effect, maybe the FB can jump across the area, but normally the wizard, in his turn, while the FB is standing somewhere, casts grease under his feet and the FB falls miserably. And you cannot jump while prone.

[Optimystik]

I like the Grease solution.

"Sit. STAY. Stay. Good boy."

[Quincunx]

What are the mechanical reasons that someone can't crawl through the grease, or in the frenzied berserker's case, bury an axe in the slippery sandstone and haul himself forward a few feet, then crack another boulder and pull further, all the while frothing and growling. . .well, I am assuming that the preventative grease is cast upon the ground and specifically not upon the berserker, so as not to have those axes fly from his grip while there are still enemies to kill.

[Optimystik]

What are the mechanical reasons that someone can't crawl through the grease, or in the frenzied berserker's case, bury an axe in the slippery sandstone and haul himself forward a few feet, then crack another boulder and pull further, all the while frothing and growling. . .well, I am assuming that the preventative grease is cast upon the ground and specifically not upon the berserker, so as not to have those axes fly from his grip while there are still enemies to kill.

Crawling moves you 5 feet per round, so the FB would have more chances to make its will save (or the party to escape/calm it down magically) before it can get clear of the grease.

I personally would have crawling with an axe use a Climb check for the same distance, but I don't have anything official to support that decision.

[Dimers]

If grease were before in effect, maybe the FB can jump across the area, but normally the wizard, in his turn, while the FB is standing somewhere, casts grease under his feet and the FB falls miserably. And you cannot jump while prone.

It's initially a Reflex save, not a Balance check, so the first round is okay (assuming he doesn't tank the save against a 1st-level spell) ... and then, instead of trying to walk out, he jumps, so again no chance of falling.


What are the mechanical reasons that someone can't crawl through the grease, or in the frenzied berserker's case, bury an axe in the slippery sandstone and haul himself forward a few feet, then crack another boulder and pull further, all the while frothing and growling. . .

Yeesh! Or does THAT, yeah. Just because there aren't mechanics already written for it in the book doesn't mean it can't be done. Thank goodness DMs are thinking creatures.

... Come to think of it, as much as I love to use grease spells in CRPGs, thank goodness computers aren't thinking creatures.

[mikej]

Marbles?

I'd go the Steadfast Determination route. It's practical and very good for any Frenzy Berserker. I'm playing one right now and I pass ( haven't ran into Nat 1 yet ) my save everytime.

[The Big Dice]

Grease covers what, a 10 foot square? All you need to do to get out of the affected area is take a 5 Foot Step. No matter which corner of your square is the center of the spell, you're never more than a single step away from leaving it. And since the spell description doesn't specify how to leave the area, only how to move through it or to remain in it, there's no problem with obvious legality and RAW.

If you want to stop a Frenzied Berserker, use anything that triggers a Will save. Hypnotic Pattern and Hold Monster have both worked for me in play situations.

[unre9istered]

Could he crawl out of the grease while frenzied?

(Ninja'd)

[Killer Angel]

It's initially a Reflex save, not a Balance check, so the first round is okay (assuming he doesn't tank the save against a 1st-level spell) ... and then, instead of trying to walk out, he jumps, so again no chance of falling.


Ah, yes, you're right on that.


Yeesh! Or does THAT, yeah. Just because there aren't mechanics already written for it in the book doesn't mean it can't be done. Thank goodness DMs are thinking creatures.


..it's not the DM that must be a thinking creature. In the first place, is the player of the FB (or of the greased character) that must think to something outside of the box.
A DM not close-minded is the second step in the process.

[Xenogears]

Random Wandering Vow of Peace NPC Passing Out Hugs.

[deuxhero]

I personally would have crawling with an axe use a Climb check for the same distance, but I don't have anything official to support that decision.

I'd go with less as you aren't fighting gravity.

[Optimystik]

I'd go with less as you aren't fighting gravity.

True, although I'd keep the "slippery surface" penalty.

[Jayabalard]

arguably, crawling/climbing out of the greased square falls under using "any abilities that require patience" ... even jumping or taking a 5 foot step might qualify unless you are going to be making an attack during that round. It requires patience to not just charge someone at your full charge speed and hit them as hard as you can.

[Optimystik]

arguably, crawling/climbing out of the greased square falls under using "any abilities that require patience" ... even jumping or taking a 5 foot step might qualify unless you are going to be making an attack during that round. It requires patience to just just charge someone at your full charge speed and hit them as hard as you can.

That's reasonable. I could see a FB trying to crawl closer to the party, then getting frustrated and flailing about in the grease. "ARGHBLARGL!!!!!"

[deuxhero]

What is he? 4?

Would it be OP to use NWN2's variant of taking 6 hp/round (instead of 2/round) and full control?

[Optimystik]

What is he? 4?

The language is very broad, as is typical for WotC.

[deuxhero]

I'd say WoTC D&D products, WoTC also does Magic and I don't think it is that broad with descriptions.

[Xenogears]

I'd say WoTC D&D products, WoTC also does Magic and I don't think it is that broad with descriptions.

I don't know. I mean most of the time they try to use the exactly right term but I've seen so many arguments about how 2 or more cards interract.

[Optimystik]

I'd say WoTC D&D products, WoTC also does Magic and I don't think it is that broad with descriptions.

Well in fairness, Magic can afford to get quite specific since all creature interaction in that game takes place in a combat context.

But you are still correct.


I don't know. I mean most of the time they try to use the exactly right term but I've seen so many arguments about how 2 or more cards interract.

Those arguments usually arise due to the byzantine layering system. Unlike D&D however, there is no argument that doesn't have an official resolution/errata of some kind.

[Emmerask]

Cast maze on him (okay its quite a high level spell) what fun thinking about the raging barbarian running through it ^^

I don´t think he can make an intelligence check while raging so he will be there the whole time he is raging I guess.

Hmm only thing that needs to be done is to see him running around the maze somehow :smallbiggrin:

[Dimers]

Hmm only thing that needs to be done is to see him running around the maze somehow :smallbiggrin:

BerserkerCam! :smallbiggrin:

[0datdude0]

Will save spells that kill the FB. Then find a comrade that isn't going to attack you.

[Angry Bob]

Four walls of iron around the combat zone? Is a frenzying berserker smart enough to remember that there are soft things that scream and bleed on the other side of the wall? And in the meantime, the monsters are in a cage match with with this thing...

[Quincunx]

Crawling moves you 5 feet per round, so the FB would have more chances to make its will save (or the party to escape/calm it down magically) before it can get clear of the grease.

I personally would have crawling with an axe use a Climb check for the same distance, but I don't have anything official to support that decision.

Ah, so you can't crawl out of the grease faster than the other person can apply more grease. Good to know. Still might keep making the attempt for fun BerserkerCam(tm) fodder, though.

[Zaq]

It doesn't end the Frenzy, but I'm very fond of the method of the party chipping in to buy the FB a Merciful weapon. This is not mutually exclusive with the other methods mentioned here, either. Just make sure that the Merciful weapon is the FB's best weapon, so the clause about "must use the best means possible" or whatever ensures that they don't throw it away and start beating you with an improvised rock or something.

[The Big Dice]

arguably, crawling/climbing out of the greased square falls under using "any abilities that require patience" ... even jumping or taking a 5 foot step might qualify unless you are going to be making an attack during that round. It requires patience to not just charge someone at your full charge speed and hit them as hard as you can.

That depends on whether you see the Frenzy as a mindless, must destroy thing. Or as a raging, angry Hulk out that is capable of learning from experience. After all, the Intelligence score isn't lowered, just the use of skills.

[Xenogears]

It doesn't end the Frenzy, but I'm very fond of the method of the party chipping in to buy the FB a Merciful weapon. This is not mutually exclusive with the other methods mentioned here, either. Just make sure that the Merciful weapon is the FB's best weapon, so the clause about "must use the best means possible" or whatever ensures that they don't throw it away and start beating you with an improvised rock or something.

Just hope your all immune to subdual or no monster comes along and kills everyone when your all beaten to unconsciousness.

[Mongoose87]

If you're worried about him using a "clever" way to get around the Grease, just cast it on his boots.

[Optimystik]

If you're worried about him using a "clever" way to get around the Grease, just cast it on his boots.

Which he promptly slips out of, followed by charging the mage barefooted.

[Jayabalard]

Which he promptly slips out of, followed by charging the mage barefooted.I dunno, that seems like taking off your boots in a threatened situation might be Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based or require patience, or be the equivalent sort of planned action that drinking a potion or activating a magic item.


That depends on whether you see the Frenzy as a mindless, must destroy thing. Or as a raging, angry Hulk out that is capable of learning from experience. After all, the Intelligence score isn't lowered, just the use of skills.No, it doesn't need to be mindless... just incredibly impatient. The Id is in control, and you can't do much of anything that requires forethought or planning... a feat that specifically represent fighting defensibly is one that you can't use.

and really my interpretation of the berserking is pretty much from
This fury, which was called berserkergang, occurred not only in the heat of battle, but also during laborious work. Men who were thus seized performed things which otherwise seemed impossible for human power. This condition is said to have begun with shivering, chattering of the teeth, and chill in the body, and then the face swelled and changed its colour. With this was connected a great hot-headedness, which at last gave over into a great rage, under which they howled as wild animals, bit the edge of their shields, and cut down everything they met without discriminating between friend or foe. When this condition ceased, a great dulling of the mind and feebleness followed, which could last for one or several days.it's very animalistic/rage driven.

[Zaq]

Just hope your all immune to subdual or no monster comes along and kills everyone when your all beaten to unconsciousness.

If you're immune to subdual, then our frenzying friend has an excuse to switch to a different weapon, and we're back at square one. The idea is that if all your other fail-safes go wrong, the berserker beats you all into unconsciousness, runs around screaming for a few more rounds, then comes to his senses and either wakes you up with healing potions (yes, potions are suboptimal, but do you trust a FB to activate a wand of lesser vigor? Neither do I.) or stands guard over you (since he's come to his senses, he knows what's going on and knows you're his friends) until you wake up. Inelegant, but that's why its your last-ditch fail-safe.

Come to think of it, when it comes to waking you up, the 0th-level Druid spell Dawn is perfect for this, but I'm not sure if it can be made into a potion without some kind of shenanigans. Maybe a command word item of it (like boots of speed)? Custom items are usually a bad road to go down, but it's just a 0th level spell. Hard to abuse that, really. You just have to make sure that you don't wake up the bad guys with it as well... but once the berserker is sane again, he can just CdG them all before waking you up. After you're all on your feet (staggered, but awake), you just use your favorite HP refiller and get everyone back to normal, then continue on your merry way.

[Optimystik]

I dunno, that seems like taking off your boots in a threatened situation might be Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based or require patience, or be the equivalent sort of planned action that drinking a potion or activating a magic item.

That's the problem - if you make his shoes slippery, getting out of them won't require any of the above. He'll slip out purely inadvertently, growling all the while, due to his straining to embed his weapon in the nearest party member.

[unre9istered]

Couldn't the party just act like they are unconscious (or dead)? Not like the FB can succeed at a Sense Motive check.

[Jayabalard]

Couldn't the party just act like they are unconscious (or dead)? Not like the FB can succeed at a Sense Motive check.That's kind of a dangerous proposition... there's nothing to stop them from continuing to hack at the dead bodies if no other targets are available, is there?

[unre9istered]

That's kind of a dangerous proposition... there's nothing to stop them from continuing to hack at the dead bodies if no other targets are available, is there?

Just looked it up:

Should she run out of enemies before her frenzy expires, her rampage continues. She must then attack the nearest creature (determine randomly if several potential foes are equidistant) and fi ght that opponent without regard to friendship, innocence, or health (the target’s or her own).

So the trick is to play dead while the berserker is fighting the last opponent but before the enemy actually falls.

[Optimystik]

Couldn't the party just act like they are unconscious (or dead)? Not like the FB can succeed at a Sense Motive check.

IIRC, it's a Heal check to see if something is faking death or still breathing. Which is moot since both are low-DC Wisdom checks anyway, and Frenzy doesn't stop Wisdom checks.

Furthermore, it's unlikely spotting such an obvious detail - someone breathing - would require much "patience or concentration."