Space Marine vs. Samus Aran

[Prime32]

Has this been done before? Both sides have strong records in various versus threads, so a matchup should be interesting.

I'd give more details, but I don't know enough about the hierarchy of Imperium units. If Samus turns out to have the advantage, they can always send in a whole squad (it doesn't work in the other direction :smalltongue:).

[Comet]

I'll just get this out of the way:
Samus Aran, The destroyer of worlds!

Now anyone else doesn't have to. :smalltongue:

In all seriousness, I still might give this one to Samus if we're talking about basic Space Marines. She's mobile and clever and versatile and such. I might be underestimating the Space Marines a bit, though.

[Dervag]

How dangerous are Samus's weapons? She's a professional bounty hunter; how good is she at setting traps?

[Prime32]

I'd be inclined to think that Samus's ultimate weapons will cut through basic Space Marine armour like hot butter, but I vaguely recall something about the super-badass-angry-holy varieties of marine having forcefields.

[Selrahc]

Samus has a highly variable power level. Over the course of a game she'll start low and move rapidly up the scale.

A normal Space Marine would be a decent match for a start of game Samus, probably having the edge.

Big bad Space Marine special character like Marneus Calgar or Logan Grimnar would stand a good chance against all but the most powerful gear loadouts from Samus, arena permitting. They do both lack mobility though, even if they have comparable defensive ability. The Blood Angel leader Dante would be probably the best match.

A Deathwatch kill team kitted out to kill Samus would certainly have the tools to do the job, even if Samus had her scariest gear. Heavy long range and short range weapons and advanced immobilization gear(Stasis grenades for example) as well as more obscure Xenotech could break Samus.

Her chief advantage at all levels is her high mobility. Her firepower and armour are both impressive, but can be countered. Her mobility really has no proper answer.

Of course if the Space Marines need to they can pull out their psykers. The chief librarians of the various chapters have a wide variety of crazy tricks.

[Oslecamo]

A normal Space Marine would be a decent match for a start of game Samus, probably having the edge.

Agreed, Samus normaly starts pretty much naked, but she's smart enough to run from fights she can't win, whereas space marines are renowed for charging at fights they cannot win (DESTROY THE MONOLITH WITH OUR KNIVES AND THIS IS OVER!, not to mention the charge at the demon cyborg immune to bolters).



Big bad Space Marine special character like Marneus Calgar or Logan Grimnar would stand a good chance against all but the most powerful gear loadouts from Samus, arena permitting. They do both lack mobility though, even if they have comparable defensive ability. The Blood Angel leader Dante would be probably the best match.

None of them get invulnerable save-piercing weapons if I'm not mistaken, wich may let them somewhat stranded against phazon-Samus.



A Deathwatch kill team kitted out to kill Samus would certainly have the tools to do the job, even if Samus had her scariest gear. Heavy long range and short range weapons and advanced immobilization gear(Stasis grenades for example) as well as more obscure Xenotech could break Samus.

Don't trust Xenotech too much. Samus suit main strenght is absorbing and adapting new technology, and also has very advanced self repair abilities. In particular in Echoes she could restart her system after being paralyzed by the super AIs, quickly getting in her feets again from certain death. If she can take down a single of the kill team, she can turn their uber gear against them. As for heavy weapons, well, unlike Space Marines, Samus armor can and does resist anti tank weaponry at higher levels, even directly trading shots with gunships and Titan-equivalent enemies while I don't remember Space Marines ever surviving direct impacts of such power.



Her chief advantage at all levels is her high mobility. Her firepower and armour are both impressive, but can be countered. Her mobility really has no proper answer.

Again, don't understimate her armor. Even Space Marines are wise enough to work in groups against powered armored foes, but Samus is tough enough to do it alone.



Of course if the Space Marines need to they can pull out their psykers. The chief librarians of the various chapters have a wide variety of crazy tricks.
Ah, now that's an interesting match, as psionics aren't directly represented on the Metroid verse. Altough if Samus resisted the Mother Brain that enslaved a whole planet, and the diferent infections that tried to take over her several times, I would dare to say she's quite resistant to mind control.

[Prime32]

Ah, now that's an interesting match, as psionics aren't directly represented on the Metroid verse. Altough if Samus resisted the Mother Brain that enslaved a whole planet, and the diferent infections that tried to take over her several times, I would dare to say she's quite resistant to mind control.IIRC, there have been references to Chozo having psychic abilities (Luminoth display overt energy manipulation, and scans say they are at the same level as the Chozo's), and Samus having phenomenal willpower (her Power Suit just doesn't work without it).

If you scan one of the Ing from Metroid Prime 2 it says that psychic abilities could be used to resist possession, but Samus was already rendered immune by Luminoth tech at the time.

EDIT:

Bioscan complete.

Subject Luminoth has been dead for 1.2 decacycles. In addition to heavy combat damage, subject shows signs of numerous Ing possession attempts - all failed. Resisting these assaults would require incredible stamina and psychic durability.

Metroid Prime: Hunters starts when a number of parties receive a psychic distress call, and the plot involves a psychic race who sealed away a psychic monster.

[Selrahc]

None of them get invulnerable save-piercing weapons if I'm not mistaken, wich may let them somewhat stranded against phazon-Samus.


We're talking fluff not game stats I assume. Samus's shields fall from taking a certain amount of damage, and the various chapter masters can certainly do that.


while I don't remember Space Marines ever surviving direct impacts of such power.

At top tier Samus is certainly a lot more powerful than any Space Marine, which is why it would take a squad of the best of the best backed up by the whole gamut of dirty tricks to stand any chance.


Ah, now that's an interesting match, as psionics aren't directly represented on the Metroid verse. Altough if Samus resisted the Mother Brain that enslaved a whole planet, and the diferent infections that tried to take over her several times, I would dare to say she's quite resistant to mind control.

I wasn't really thinking of mind control. More time manipulation, teleportation, disorientation and attacks that can rip a hole through to another dimension.

[Prime32]

I wasn't really thinking of mind control. More time manipulation, teleportation, disorientation and attacks that can rip a hole through to another dimension.Apart from time manipulation, Samus has dealt with plenty of those. Hiding in other dimensions doesn't work against her at least, once she's upgraded her visor.

[Gamerlord]

Space marine wins, those bolters can cut through ANYTHING.

[Prime32]

Space marine wins, those bolters can cut through ANYTHING.Put simply, no attack in any of her games can kill Samus in one hit.

...alright, those level 3 sentry guns from Corruption can do it, but still. Halo had invincible marines who showed up if you shot Keyes. That's the developers shooting you for being an ass, not the GF.

[Selrahc]

Apart from time manipulation, Samus has dealt with plenty of those. Hiding in other dimensions doesn't work against her at least, once she's upgraded her visor.


Not hiding in other dimensions. Ripping a hole through to a dimension best understood as hell, which proceeds to suck in all matter in the vicinity, then shutting it off. If Samus got dragged through that she would be doomed. (Anyone would be doomed. It's not something being badass can save you from.)

[Seraph]

Space marine wins, those bolters can cut through ANYTHING.

eh. A fully upgraded samus can jump through molten rock literally like it isn't there, taking no damage. as awesome as a bolter may be, I don't see it being enough to hurt her seriously in one hit.


Space Marines may have the firepower to do the job, but they may not have the ability to counteract Samus' insane mobility.

[Prime32]

Not hiding in other dimensions. Ripping a hole through to a dimension best understood as hell, which proceeds to suck in all matter in the vicinity, then shutting it off. If Samus got dragged through that she would be doomed. (Anyone would be doomed. It's not something being badass can save you from.)This was the plot of Metroid Prime 2. Samus ended up not only surviving, but destroying that dimension.

[Selrahc]

In the warp physics stops. Reality doesn't exist. Time doesn't exist. Malevelant entities that can tear you to shreds with a thought swarm around seeking any scrap of the material world. A few seconds of immersion in the warp can destroy a starship capable of taking firepower that would break planets.

Samus wouldn't survive being put into the warp. It really really really isn't something you can survive.

She could however attempt to dodge around the portal. Unless she was distracted by something.

[Prime32]

In the warp physics stops. Reality doesn't exist. Time doesn't exist. Malevelant entities that can tear you to shreds with a thought swarm around seeking any scrap of the material world. A few seconds of immersion in the warp can destroy a starship capable of taking firepower that would break planets.

Samus wouldn't survive being put into the warp. It really really really isn't something you can survive.

She could however attempt to dodge around the portal. Unless she was distracted by something.Samus somehow manages to escape via an emergency system in her suit which the Chozo included for just such an occasion, but she loses all her upgrades in the process.

She must now travel around, defeating members of the various factions and stealing their technology. Also blow up lots of Tyranids. Is there any chance that someone would agree to let her work for them?

[Selrahc]

Samus somehow manages to escape via an emergency system in her suit which the Chozo included for just such an occasion, but she loses all her upgrades in the process.

I'd count that as a win for the Space Marines. Being saved by a plot device isn't really any better than being defeated outright.

[Prime32]

What are the mechanics of this "suck 'em into the Warp" ability?

[chiasaur11]

In the warp physics stops. Reality doesn't exist. Time doesn't exist. Malevelant entities that can tear you to shreds with a thought swarm around seeking any scrap of the material world. A few seconds of immersion in the warp can destroy a starship capable of taking firepower that would break planets.

Samus wouldn't survive being put into the warp. It really really really isn't something you can survive.


There are chapters of loyalist Space Marines regularly joyriding around in the warp, if I recall, that manage to survive joyriding in the warp hunting demons as a regular thing. Orks travel the warp without gellar fields and consider the whole thing a lark, and Samus, in a previous thread on the subject, was agreed to be capable of downing any number of Orks, given a good enough weapon loadout. (IE, the plasma beam). The warp is a bad place to be, sure, and anyone with an ounce of sense wants to get back to reality at first opportunity, but it's not instadeath to everyone. Have good enough gear and mental fortitude, and you might make it back alive.

Samus has both. She should be able to deal with it.

It does very much depend on loadout, but if Samus has the wave beam, I'd say it looks very good for her. Thing punches through walls like they weren't there, and I doubt Space Marine armor will do better, ensuring the ability to cause damage. If she has the screw attack on top of that? She wins. Almost nothing can survive a hit from that, and the things that can still can't hurt her while she's doing it.

And that's when she's going against the tough ones. Random mooks, she has a tolerable shot with just basic armor.

[The Glyphstone]

I believe in 3rd or 4th it was a small blast template, anything underneath was destroyed instantly regardless of saves or wounds on a 4+.



There are chapters of loyalist Space Marines regularly joyriding around in the warp, if I recall, that manage to survive joyriding in the warp hunting demons as a regular thing. Orks travel the warp without gellar fields and consider the whole thing a lark, and Samus, in a previous thread on the subject, was agreed to be capable of downing any number of Orks, given a good enough weapon loadout. (IE, the plasma beam). The warp is a bad place to be, sure, and anyone with an ounce of sense wants to get back to reality at first opportunity, but it's not instadeath to everyone. Have good enough gear and mental fortitude, and you might make it back alive.


The only Space Marine chapter that spends time in the warp for anything but travel is the Legion of the Damned as far as I remember, who are only 'loyalist' by the vaguest definition, and pretty screwed up by it too. Orks don't have Geller fields because WAAAAAAAUGH energy substitutes in its place, creating the same sort of reality-anchoring effect that the Field produces.

EDIT: Oh, and the 13th company...but I don't know a lot about them, are they in the newest SW book?

[Oslecamo]

In the warp physics stops. Reality doesn't exist. Time doesn't exist. Malevelant entities that can tear you to shreds with a thought swarm around seeking any scrap of the material world. A few seconds of immersion in the warp can destroy a starship capable of taking firepower that would break planets.


Sounds like the Echoes plot allright.

-Dark reality that tears you apart just by standing on it? Check.
-Powerfull "entities" that fuse themselves with other beings to spawn all kinds of abominations? Check.


So, been there, done that.

Not to mention, a group of orks once entered the warp, and they only stopped after destroyng several demonic worlds and being defeated by sheer atriction against the demon hordes.

The 13th space wolves company entered the warp long ago, and they seem to be doing quite fine for the last 10.000 years.

So, the warp is actualy safer than the real world, since you'll be hard pressed to find a company of space marines there that survived all the way from the Horus Heresy!:smalltongue:

[Emperor Ing]

It depends on what level of equipment Samus has.

If we're talking lowest level, as in "First landing on Tallon IV in Metroid Prime" then space marine would win 80-20% of the time. Samus "Might" win if she is 1: Ridiculously lucky and 2: Able to outmaneuver the space marine.

Moderate level: Some Energy Tanks, a good missle arsenal, Varia Suit, a few beam upgrades and some other miscellaneous equipment: Samus would probably win, but it'd be a fight to watch, probably 95-5% of the time. Space marine would likely win if he got the drop on Samus.

Maximum Level: Think 100% in Metroid Prime.
By this time, Samus is an unstoppable avatar of destruction and diety-like figure on the battlefield. I doubt even a Grey Knights company is enough to keep her down let alone a single Ultramarine.

But again: Samus Aran, Destroyer of Worlds!

[Prime32]

Maximum Level: Think 100% in Metroid Prime.
By this time, Samus is an unstoppable avatar of destruction and diety-like figure on the battlefield. I doubt even a Grey Knights company is enough to keep her down let alone a single Ultramarine.I think when Samus Vs. theads come up, it generally also includes Space Jump (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PWqTQLjaLk) (infinite midair jump effectively allows her to fly), Screw Attack (transform into a whirling vortex of energy which makes any matter it touches explode, can be combined with Space Jump), Shinespark (see Getter Robo, but with Chain Attack), Crystal Flash (full repair at the cost of ammo), Light Suit (massive damage reduction, immunity to Dark Aether's atmosphere and limited teleportation), Annihilator Beam (light/dark and antimatter weapon which generates dimensional rifts), Imperialist (sniper beam), Omega Cannon (low-yield nuclear explosive), Hyper Mode...

Oh, and she can stack the effects of multiple beams into each shot. :smallamused:


I recall one thread where someone claimed that Samus's Hyper Beam destroyed a planet-killer asteroid, but I have never heard of such a thing happening in the games or comics.

[Mando Knight]

Space Marines may have the firepower to do the job, but they may not have the ability to counteract Samus' insane mobility.

If they catch her early on. Once she's upgraded, she's practically invulnerable to all but the nastiest creatures (Herself, Ridley, the Super Metroid, Mother Brain...) and has the firepower to annihilate all but the most elite troops without expending more than maybe 5% of her total missile ammunition.

Her standard beginning loadout seems geared more towards "subdue" rather than "slay" since most creatures (note: Xenoforms found in Metroid are tough critters: wasps the size of cats, beetles the size of Dobermans, and beasties with a tough outer layer in general) can take a hit or two from her standard Power Beam before going down. Once she starts collecting weapons for a serious showdown, she can easily finish gathering lethal weaponry within a few hours at most. Space Pirates are also rather well equipped: the GF has problems with them in part because their equipment and training seems to be roughly on par with standard GF military equipment.

Samus's main combat-relevant payload:
BeamsPower Beam: Light arm cannon weapon. Low power output indicates it's a weapon meant to discourage lesser beings from engaging her without necessarily killing them.

Charge Beam: Anti-personnel form of the Power Beam. Injures armored beings, kills unarmored beings. Can be used with other beams for similar damage scaling.

Ice Beam: Freezes some weakened enemies, kills others outright.

Plasma Beam (Metroid Prime): Supercharged high-velocity gas on par with charged Power Beam (weaker, but much faster firing in MP3). Anything its super-high temperature beam pierces, it sets on fire to DIE HORRIBLY.

Nova Beam (MP3): Improved (MP3) Plasma Beam. High-frequency blast wave pierces some kinds of armor. Can completely disintegrate wounded foes.

Wave Beam (MP): Follows you and gets you. Causes electrical interference that can stun-lock enemies. With Metroid Prime Trilogy's aiming system, can even shoot around corners.

Wave Beam (2D): Shoots through walls. Higher damage than standard Power Beam.

Plasma Beam (2D): Pierces multiple enemies, Pirate armor, and increases damage. Stacks with Wave Beam.

Dark Beam: Darkness is covering you, all you can see... absolute horror. Similar effect to Ice Beam.

Light Beam: Standard shot similar to slower-firing MP3 Plasma beam, charged shot homes in. Burns you with the power of SUNLIGHT!

Annihilator Beam: Finds you, kills you. Localized matter-antimatter detonation causes shockwaves useful for activating sonic equipment.
MissilesMissile: Standard anti-infantry weapon. 2D Samus spams us. She can often carry over 200 (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MacrossMissileMassacre) missiles.

Seeker Missile: MP2/3 replacement for missile spamming. Just try to dodge THIS (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MacrossMissileMassacre).

Super Missile: Anti-Armor. Kills almost everything. The list that it doesn't OHKO is shorter: Invincible walls (necessary due to limitations in game design), invincible mooks, bosses, super-tough mooks. The latter two can be killed with enough missile spamming, the former two can't be killed period.

Ice Missile: Used when you can't get Ice Beam. Stronger than normal Missiles, but can also freeze things it doesn't kill. Gets upgraded to the area-freezing Diffusion Missile in Metroid Fusion.
Armor:
Zero Suit: Even unarmored, she's tough. Weak energy shield can take nearly a dozen anti-personnel shots with a decent stock of energy.

Power Suit: Standard suit. Energy shield reduces damage much further, enabling Samus to survive multiple hits that would be lethal to normal humans. Contains environment suit capabilities.

Varia Suit: Common upgrade. Energy shield is immune to most acids (heavy acid rain of ridiculously low pH can overcome this) and can withstand temperatures similar to the atmosphere of a volcano or the Antarctic almost indefinitely. Roughly halves the damage Samus takes from all sources she's not immune to.

Gravity Suit: Immune to nearly all environmental hazards, including lava and all but the most hazardous substances. Local gravitic distortion field allows free movement in even highly viscous liquids. Further improvements to shield strength allows her to resist even multiple artillery-grade attacks.

Samus somehow manages to escape via an emergency system in her suit which the Chozo included for just such an occasion, but she loses all her upgrades in the process.
She did that already. Then she became immune to the environmental hazard of the other-space within around twenty hours and obliterated it.

[deuxhero]

Depends on where the in Start with everything>lose equipment>get it all back cycle comes from.

What type of Marine is also a factor. A Reasonable Marine would force Samus into using that blasted thermal visor.

[Prime32]

Depends on where the in Start with everything>lose equipment>get it all back cycle comes from.

What type of Marine is also a factor. A Reasonable Marine would force Samus into using that blasted thermal visor.A smart marine would force her to use the X-Ray visor.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f278/katietiedrich/comic47.jpg (http://www.awkwardzombie.com/comic1-091007.php)

[Emperor Ing]

What type of Marine is also a factor. A Reasonable Marine would force Samus into using that blasted thermal visor.

It it were a reasonable marine, it wouldn't even be a fight. Literally.

[Fan]

I say we use Sanguinus, or Roburte Gulliman.

It's only appropriate considering that she's the equivalent for the GF.

That, or we send a well equipped regiment of the IG, complete with Baneblade, artillery, and orbital Support.

Because a single Warship could Exterminatus Samus off the face of the Universe.

Anyone who says she could get to her ship in time is forgetting the importance of bringing AA missiles in the form of heat seeking EMPs, and then Krak.

And Artillery Grade Attacks? I think we're making a gross understatement of the Lemann here, as well as the Bane Blade.

WH40K's bullets go through meters of reinforced high carbon super steel like it's paper, their rocket propelled high explosive tank shots are what we consider suitable rounds for our Tanks.

Their Artillery would decimate anything in the MP verse, plasma weaponry or not.

[Emperor Ing]

I think you're assuming that Samus could solo the Imperium of Man as a whole. Sorry, only Goku can do that. :smalltongue:

[Prime32]

I think you're assuming that Samus could solo the Imperium of Man as a whole. Sorry, only Goku can do that. :smalltongue:Ahem. Only? :smalltongue:

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7553/ohgodepic.jpg
My avatar made out of fire disagrees with you.

[Mando Knight]

A smart marine would force her to use the X-Ray visor.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f278/katietiedrich/comic47.jpg (http://www.awkwardzombie.com/comic1-091007.php)

I think she's actually immune to cancer. She's not human anymore. She's a genetically modified super-human who's still capable of moving like an Olympic gymnast while in full armor, even before she grabs all of the mobility upgrades. Not to mention Metroid Fusion, where she can regain her energy by absorbing the eldritch abomination parasites that devour souls of all on the space lab.

[Emperor Ing]

Ahem. Only? :smalltongue:

My avatar made out of fire disagrees with you.

Okay fine, so could Vegeta, Frieza, Buu, Gohan...hell every character after the Saiyan saga.

[chiasaur11]

Okay fine, so could Vegeta, Frieza, Buu, Gohan...hell every character after the Saiyan saga.

What about Fred Rodgers?

[Emperor Ing]

What about Fred Rodgers?

*shrug* sorry, dunno who he is.

[Fan]

I think you're assuming that Samus could solo the Imperium of Man as a whole. Sorry, only Goku can do that. :smalltongue:

I'm talking a SINGLE, well equipped reigment, with proper training could do it.

She may have wave attacks, but from what I've seen of the Super Missile combo's... the AOE's aren't that big, and at most in any single game (and don't even bring up the possibility of multiple games equipment being combined, as that would NEVER happen in any REASONABLE sceanario. I'll leave it civily at that.) she gets around 20 Energy tanks, which concentrated fire from people who can actually AIM (Space Pirates... they be a sad bunch.), can wither those down, not to mention a Bane Blade, or Lemann Rouss's attacks being able to decimate things that in MP games your weapons make glow orange for a few seconds, and then watch as they cool.

[Mando Knight]

*shrug* sorry, dunno who he is.

'e means Fred Rogers, who made the US Senate... his neighbor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXEuEUQIP3Q). And then came out on top in the Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny.

[Prime32]

'e means Fred Rogers, who made the US Senate... his neighbor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXEuEUQIP3Q). And then came out on top in the Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny.Rogers is a survivor. The only reason he was left was because the more powerful guys were mobbed by armies who then turned on each other.

[Selrahc]

-Dark reality that tears you apart just by standing on it? Check.
-Powerfull "entities" that fuse themselves with other beings to spawn all kinds of abominations? Check.

I've not played echoes, but if her weapons and armour worked, if she was still experiencing time and space, if she was able to move, if her head didn't explode from the raw psychic gribbliness of it all then it probably wasn't as bad as the warp.



Not to mention, a group of orks once entered the warp, and they only stopped after destroyng several demonic worlds and being defeated by sheer atriction against the demon hordes.

The 13th space wolves company entered the warp long ago, and they seem to be doing quite fine for the last 10.000 years.


I think you're confusing the eye of terror with the warp. Warp disturbances in real space act as something of a halfway house between the instant death of the real warp and the material universe. A powerful enough will can bring reality to warp disturbances, a safe haven can be carved out and maintained and the bigger monsters can't come out and play.


There are chapters of loyalist Space Marines regularly joyriding around in the warp, if I recall, that manage to survive joyriding in the warp hunting demons as a regular thing.

I... don't think so? Where are you getting that?


Orks travel the warp without gellar fields and consider the whole thing a lark, and Samus, in a previous thread on the subject, was agreed to be capable of downing any number of Orks, given a good enough weapon loadout. (IE, the plasma beam). The warp is a bad place to be, sure, and anyone with an ounce of sense wants to get back to reality at first opportunity, but it's not instadeath to everyone. Have good enough gear and mental fortitude, and you might make it back alive.

Orks have a psychic defense system. They carve out their own reality. Even still their ships *do* have a Gellar field equivalent called "Da Really Big Teef" which draws power from and amplifies the waaagh field of the orks.



If they catch her early on. Once she's upgraded, she's practically invulnerable to all but the nastiest creatures (Herself, Ridley, the Super Metroid, Mother Brain...) and has the firepower to annihilate all but the most elite troops without expending more than maybe 5% of her total missile ammunition.

No whatever stage they catch her at they definitely have the firepower to kill her. Conversion beams can kill anything, no questions asked. Thunderhawk gunships come equipped with city levelling weaponry at least equivalent to Ridley's stuff and if all else fails they can call in the firepower of a starship and a stockpile of vortex missiles. Space Marines have powerful weaponry that can be deployed en masse with a lot of speed. If she fights an entire chapter I'd not give her the win even at her most powerful levels.

[Emperor Ing]

I'm talking a SINGLE, well equipped reigment, with proper training could do it.

Keep in mind this is Space Marine vs Samus Aran. Space Marine, singular, not plural.

A well equipped space marine regiment might beat her, but at full power, the regiment is in all likelihood, toast.

[Prime32]

Okay, what about the God-Emperor of Mankind vs. Samus? He counts as a Marine, right? :smalltongue:

[Fan]

To give a idea of what Regiments normally come with, see below.


Their Heavy Tanks:


http://iislands.com/hermit/pictures/bolo/BOLO1_.JPG


What a Vortex Missile Barrage Does:



http://scarsofwargame.com/DevBlog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/exterminatus.jpg



The Best, of The Best for Space Marines:



http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss265/GodKalZul/CustMot.jpg



We're talking on the above, that out of the billions of galaxy spanning wars that have happened on Terra, there has only been three of the above chapter to die. EVER.

Now here, for the BASIC load out carried by the Adeptus Custodes.

Melta Weapons, that turns said Giant Tanks that can laugh off missiles into molten slag. Being in Armor, DOES NOT help against this. In fact, it makes it closer to being in a can in a microwave. (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Melta_Weapon#Melta_Cannon)

Oh look, yet more weapons capable of obliterating tanks. (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Lascannon)

Swords capable of slaying Greater Daemons in a single wound. (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Force_Weapons)

I'd say that any single higher ranking Marine could easily get her, as they have a development known as the Rocket Propelled Sniper Rifle. Have the bullets enhanced with the energies of the warp as per Grey Guards standards, and hit her with a Aerial EMP bombardment first, and suddenly. Things seem a lot less okay for Ms.Aran.

[chiasaur11]

http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss265/GodKalZul/CustMot.jpg



We're talking on the above, that out of the billions of galaxy spanning wars that have happened on Terra, there has only been three of the above chapter to die. EVER.


Man, that record is going to be messed up something fierce.

[Fan]

Man, that record is going to be messed up something fierce.

I think they've taken tougher foes then Samus, and with the existence of melta weapons, combined with strategic use of EMP to wipe out her shields, she would be barbeque.

[Mando Knight]

she gets around 20 Energy tanks, which concentrated fire from people who can actually AIM (Space Pirates... they be a sad bunch.), can wither those down,2099 Energy doesn't go down that quickly. Even the biggest, baddest mo-fos in the galaxy have trouble bringing Samus's energy down even when they hit her. She displays an amount of tactical maneuverability several levels beyond that of her counterparts (Mega Man in 2D, Master Chief in 3D) combined with survivability against dedicated war machines (Omega Pirate, Ridley, the Phazon-boosted Mogenar War Golem), Asskicking-type Authority (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AuthorityEqualsAsskicking) (Emperor Ing, Mother Brain), and hardened eldritch abominations (Metroids, especially the Queen and the Prime, SA-X) and wins.

She's not just a bounty hunter, she's a myth.

PFC I. CRANY:

Last night at chow, Angseth starts talking about some bounty hunter and how she blew up a planet full of Space Pirates. I told her I didn't believe in
fairy tales like that, and she took it personal. I just find it had to believe that one person took out an entire Space Pirate base, that's all. But if she wants to believe in this Samus, or Bigfoot, or Santa Claus, she can.

It's not that the Pirates can't aim, it's that Samus won't let them get a lock before they learn what it feels like to have a half-dozen missiles explode in their faces.

not to mention a Bane Blade, or Lemann Rouss's attacks being able to decimate things that in MP games your weapons make glow orange for a few seconds, and then watch as they cool.
Hyper Beam. (http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Hyper_Beam) At Super Metroid's max E-tank level, you can take two or three of them. And it carves through your enemies like a katana through warm butter.

[Fan]

Yeah, energy weapons like that tend to have cool down times, and each one MIGHT take out a slow moving group of marines.

Also, I've PLAYED the Metroid games. Samus is NOT that fast, and most of her manueverability comes from the player rather then anything inherent, and none of those fights are exactly "Easy" unless your the type who grabs every possible huntable upgrade through secrets before fighting the Final Boss, and knowing the strategy before hand.

Really. And I doubt a single one of us hasn't died at least once during these boss fights.

That, and that little fluff thing there is hardly Game Canon, just as the Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask book/VN isn't Game Canon.

You can hardly call any of those fights you mentioned as anything other then "Close Calls with Death" sans some serious full game dedication with multiple save loads.

That, and she can hardly face down a hundred men each equipped with Ridley Grade Weaponry firing down upon her, her fire speed, and target change allows for maybe 10 in a minuet, if you have your targetting skill perfect.

[Oslecamo]

Their Heavy Tanks:


http://iislands.com/hermit/pictures/bolo/BOLO1_.JPG


Hmm, no, the heaviest tank of the marines is the land raider, with them wanting to be a mobile force and stuff. Actualy the guys in there don't even look humans or spech merines.



What a Vortex Missile Barrage Does:



http://scarsofwargame.com/DevBlog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/exterminatus.jpg


Assuming that the image is actualy related to WH40K at all, and not someone who glued a destroyed planet image to exterminatus.



The Best, of The Best for Space Marines:



http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss265/GodKalZul/CustMot.jpg



Bzzt, wrong. Adeptus Custodes are not Adeptus Astartes(aka spech merines). The custodes are indeed very badass, but they're on a completely diferent level than even the best marines. They were each one custom made by the emprah himself, and use their own custom weaponry and armor. And they're too busy guarding the Golden Throne and keeping Terra in order.



We're talking on the above, that out of the billions of galaxy spanning wars that have happened on Terra, there has only been three of the above chapter to die. EVER.

Actualy, besides the Horus Heresy and the nun revolution, Terra is pretty much one of the most peacefull places in the galaxy, with the guardsmen hordes holding the line around it.



I'd say that any single higher ranking Marine could easily get her, as they have a development known as the Rocket Propelled Sniper Rifle. Have the bullets enhanced with the energies of the warp as per Grey Guards standards, and hit her with a Aerial EMP bombardment first, and suddenly. Things seem a lot less okay for Ms.Aran.

Hmm, no. Custodes main weapon is a spiced up laser-halberd combo, but I don't recall any kind of super sniper rifle ever being refered. And you need to pretty much be the emprah himself to get a bombardment orded, since not even chaos invasions seem to be reason enough to effeciently nuke a planet.

[Selrahc]

She's not just a bounty hunter, she's a myth.

I'm sorry but you get no points at all for being a myth. Every single Space Marine is a myth. Space Marine special characters are generally legendary figures with hundreds of years of experience behind them fighting incredible beasts of war and destruction. Untold billions revere them for acts that are in the same league as Samus.

[Fan]

I've deployed a Bane Blade with my Ultra Marines in the WH40k war game... Albeit that was a high point game, but that doesn't matter.

As for the image... Well it's the Aftermath of the first use of Cyclonic Torpedo's in the Inquisition War series.... Made into a Motivator...

There is also the two Stage torpedo which comes with a melta charge that actually shatters the Planet in many cases.

[Oslecamo]

I'm sorry but you get no points at all for being a myth. Every single Space Marine is a myth. Space Marine special characters are generally legendary figures with hundreds of years of experience behind them fighting incredible beasts of war and destruction. Untold billions revere them for acts that are in the same league as Samus.

Considering that Spech Merines fight beasts with giant cleavers and many of them died horrible deaths, are in coma or deserted to the Warp, while Samus is still breathing and fights giant monsters wich can actualy attack at range, and the planets themselves in wich she fights end up exploding, I would say her legend is more badass.

[Fan]

Considering that Spech Merines fight beasts with giant cleavers and many of them died horrible deaths, are in coma or deserted to the Warp, while Samus is still breathing and fights giant monsters wich can actualy attack at range, and the planets themselves in wich she fights end up exploding, I would say her legend is more badass.

BUT SHE NEVER ACTUALLY BLOWS UP THE PLANET! :smallmad:

It's always through a Dues Ex Machina, or some other plot device that causes the planet to explode for a dramatic escape.

It's a trick for dramatic effect, not a genuine story element.

That's like saying the unlucky workers at Cheryonobl carried around suitcase nukes.

[chiasaur11]

I'm sorry but you get no points at all for being a myth. Every single Space Marine is a myth. Space Marine special characters are generally legendary figures with hundreds of years of experience behind them fighting incredible beasts of war and destruction. Untold billions revere them for acts that are in the same league as Samus.

I'd say it's a tiny bit more impressive with Samus. Smaller galaxy, to start, so less chance of corruption of the story.

Second, how do their enemies view them? From what I've seen, and I could be wrong, Space Marines tend to be viewed by their enemies as a good deal less legendary than by civilians. Grey Knights may inspire fear in the demons of chaos, as does CIAPHAS CAIN, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM, but Joe Q Marine is viewed by most of his enemies as "just" a really, really tough guy. Samus is the Space Pirate equivalent of Azathoth.

Third? Samus keeps the reputation as a legend despite a reasonably open government that hires her frequently. The reason Galactic Federation marines doubt she exists? Not a system of government that lies about everything, (although they do have some black ops stuff they don't want on record, of course.). Just because she's THAT GOOD.

[Selrahc]

Considering that Spech Merines fight beasts with giant cleavers and many of them died horrible deaths, are in coma or deserted to the Warp, while Samus is still breathing and fights giant monsters wich can actualy attack at range, and the planets themselves in wich she fights end up exploding, I would say her legend is more badass.

Well as you hate Space Marines, and have spent pretty much every versus thread with her in it declaring what a paragon of excellence Samus is I'm not really surprised at that. :smalltongue: Not really an objective opinion though.

The big name Space Marine characters that I have mentioned are all still breathing. They've all crushed more foes than Samus. Pressing a "blow up planet" button then running is fairly silly staple of the Metroidverse but not one that really reflects how powerful Samus is.

Samus has had more material created focussing on her in real life than any Space Marine. But she doesn't really have an objectively bigger status as a figure of legend within the context of the fictional universes we're talking about.
EDIT:


I'd say it's a tiny bit more impressive with Samus. Smaller galaxy, to start, so less chance of corruption of the story.

Second, how do their enemies view them? From what I've seen, and I could be wrong, Space Marines tend to be viewed by their enemies as a good deal less legendary than by civilians. Grey Knights may inspire fear in the demons of chaos, as does CIAPHAS CAIN, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM, but Joe Q Marine is viewed by most of his enemies as "just" a really, really tough guy. Samus is the Space Pirate equivalent of Azathoth.

Third? Samus keeps the reputation as a legend despite a reasonably open government that hires her frequently. The reason Galactic Federation marines doubt she exists? Not a system of government that lies about everything, (although they do have some black ops stuff they don't want on record, of course.). Just because she's THAT GOOD.

Probably true in the case of a random marine. Special characters have hundreds of years of glorious victories behind them though.

[Fan]

Their enemies mainly include.

Themselves. In shiny red armor, and enhanced with ultra Daemonic energy.

Orks, who are as effective as they believe they are.

Tryanids: Zerg on Cocaine who do not know fear.

Eldar: Ultra Psychics who are departing from this Galaxy, who spawned the Gods Of Chaos.

Tau: Again, they don't quite know fear, Pre Req of WH40k 101.

Necrons: Do I even need to mention the fact that they are literally unkillable?

Dark Eldar: Emo Eldar.


And on their side.

IG: They are in fact viewed as legends by them, and becoming a space marine is every IG's wet dream.

[Prime32]

Also, I've PLAYED the Metroid games. Samus is NOT that fast, and most of her manueverability comes from the player rather then anything inherent, and none of those fights are exactly "Easy" unless your the type who grabs every possible huntable upgrade through secrets before fighting the Final Boss, and knowing the strategy before hand.
Speed Booster, can't be slowed by liquids, can generate low-power personal gravity field, and ability to circle strafe with great ease. Samus can perform all kinds of complex acrobatics while keeping her gun pointed in the same direction. Plus there's always the Morphball.


Yeah, energy weapons like that tend to have cool down times, and each one MIGHT take out a slow moving group of marines.Tend to? :smallconfused: You said you'd played the games, shouldn't you know? The Hyper Beam has no cooldown time.


That, and that little fluff thing there is hardly Game Canon, just as the Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask book/VN isn't Game Canon.
It's canon - it's in MP2. In MP3 half the GF members Samus meets tell her it's an honour to meet her, and the other half are either in life-or-death situations or seem to know her already.

If we go for non-canon stuff, then Samus is a former member of some special forces who only one in a million Military Police (who are themselves 1-in-a-million superhumans) are badass enough to join, and then she got cybernetic enhancements, left, and when she came back she was so far above them that they were kissing her feet. But I think that was written in 1986 by an American magazine. :smalltongue:

[Fan]

By cool down times, I was assuming it over heated. I've yet to play the NES versions....

Damn me for being young!


There's also the virtue of her lacking energy tanks here, as there are no convient recharge stations, or obviously indicated boss fights, or artillery fire zones.

When she gets hit, the only warning she'll get will be the thermal signature of the rocket propelled artillery round moving at the speed of sound.

[chiasaur11]

There's also the virtue of her lacking energy tanks here, as there are no convient recharge stations, or obviously indicated boss fights, or artillery fire zones.


Well, that'd work better if it wasn't for the fact health comes out of pretty much anything Samus kills. Chozo tech seems capable of draining life energy from targets. As do some of Samus's other weapons, come to think of it. Universal energy adapters mean there should be some things Samus can use to recharge.

And all that's irrelevant for the default fight. One marine shouldn't take more than one or two tanks to down.

[Seraph]

Well, that'd work better if it wasn't for the fact health comes out of pretty much anything Samus kills. Chozo tech seems capable of draining life energy from targets.

I think there's a log somewhere in prime that outright states the Power Suit can pull energy out of raw matter or something, which is why she can blow up random geological formations and get energy refill out of it.

Plus, there's how the suit can basically incorporate any sort of technology into itself for her to use, so if you pit her against multiple marines she'll be able to strip any useful tech out of a dead marine and incorporate it into her own suit once she can get some cover.

[GoC]

(Anyone would be doomed. It's not something being badass can save you from.)
While I agree with the sentiment, you are just asking for counterexamples here.:smalltongue:damn wizards >_>

[chiasaur11]

While I agree with the sentiment, you are just asking for counterexamples here.:smalltongue:DRILLZ!!!

Counterexamples already mentioned and ignored.

Most of the counterexamples, admittedly, were green, violent, and remarkably dumb, but they still go into the warp undefended and live to tell about it. As do some Space Marines.

Warp's a nasty place, and even major badasses* want out as soon as possible, but it isn't instant death.

*(The Doom Marine is here, as in all things, a notable exception. Rip and Tear!)

[Selrahc]

Most of the counterexamples, admittedly, were green, violent, and remarkably dumb, but they still go into the warp undefended

But they don't. Rogue Trader says that the Ork Ships have an equivalent to the Gellar Field. Called "Really Big Teef".



As do some Space Marines.

As I said before.. What are you talking about?


While I agree with the sentiment, you are just asking for counterexamples here. :smalltongue:

Such is the peril of life in the web.

[Oslecamo]

As I said before.. What are you talking about?


13th space wolves company. Went into the Warp after the Thousands suns during the Horus Heresy, whitout special preparations whatsoever. 10.000 years later, they still are there, fine and dandy, just somewhat furrier.

[Selrahc]

13th space wolves company. Went into the Warp after the Thousands suns during the Horus Heresy, whitout special preparations whatsoever. 10.000 years later, they still are there, fine and dandy, just somewhat furrier.

They went into the eye, following the Thousand Sons. Different thing.

[Oslecamo]

They went into the eye, following the Thousand Sons. Different thing.

If I'm not mistaken, Magus opened a portal to escape into the warp from his home planet (as the SW wouldn't exactly let them take off with their own ships) and Russ ordered the 13th company to enter the portal as well.

Doesn't change the fact that we have a group of regular spech merines surviving the warp for a very big chunk of time whitout specialized anti warp equipment. Where are your insta gib demonic gods now?:smalltongue:

[chiasaur11]

If I'm not mistaken, Magus opened a portal to escape into the warp from his home planet (as the SW wouldn't exactly let them take off with their own ships) and Russ ordered the 13th company to enter the portal as well.

Doesn't change the fact that we have a group of regular spech merines surviving the warp for a very big chunk of time whitout specialized anti warp equipment. Where are your insta gib demonic gods now?:smalltongue:

Presumably overrated, as is much of 40k is vs. threads.

Not that anything from the setting is anything less than brutal complete with umlauts,* of course, but...

Let's just say it's prone to inflation. Sure, average grunt from 40k vs average grunt from almost anything else is brutally short. (And often awesome). Of course in full on empire versus empire scraps any 40k faction, even the Tau, is going to be a very tough fight.

But it seems to be a trend in versus threads, with a good deal of exceptions of course, that if someone is a proponent of the 40k side, they reach the opinion that the only thing that can survive a glancing blow from a sidearm from the gruntiest of Warhammer grunts is armor from within the setting, and anything else would die if it was within five hundred miles of the firing.

I suppose it's necessary if one is going to keep up the standard vs. thread trend of exaggeration of the capabilities of combatants with a subject as over-the-top as Warhammer 40k, but it gets a bit silly at times, with all due respect.

*With the exception of some Imperial Guard units.

[EleventhHour]

I suppose it's necessary if one is going to keep up the standard vs. thread trend of exaggeration of the capabilities of combatants with a subject as over-the-top as Warhammer 40k, but it gets a bit silly at times, with all due respect.

Because SAMUS ARAN DESTROYER OF WORLDZ never gets exaggerated. At all.

[chiasaur11]

Because SAMUS ARAN DESTROYER OF WORLDZ never gets exaggerated. At all.

Thus the mention of exaggeration common to versus threads.

It's a fair point, of course, and one I did try to make clear even if I did not accomplish it as well as I hoped.

I just find it alternately amusing and mildly irritating how much further 40k sometimes takes it, as it, to its credit, takes most aspects of setting to 12 or so.

[Selrahc]

13th space wolves company. Went into the Warp after the Thousands suns during the Horus Heresy, whitout special preparations whatsoever. 10.000 years later, they still are there, fine and dandy, just somewhat furrier.

The eye isn't the same as the warp in general. The eye is pliable, there are areas of safety and respite, and reality is more firmly in sway. It sits on the fringes of the warp/real space border. Time exists. A weird form of physics exists. Cause follows effect and so on. Seeing it doesn't rupture your mind.

Being thrown bodily deep into the warp would be an entirely different thing. There is no indication that anything can survive unshielded in the real warp. Navigators are bred to survive it. Their powers shield them from it. They still go stark staring crazy from shielded contact with the warp. Starships with a downed Gellar field are ripped to shreds in the few seconds they can maintain their warp drives and are left as listless wrecks drifting through space.

Also: The furriness was around prior to their attack on the Sons. The thirteenth company was always made up of those that possessed the wulfen gene. It was presumably more common back then.

[Talkkno]

A single Grey Knight Grandmaster is a even match for a Greater Deamon. Which by the way can cause maddness for light years around with just its birth. Takes a decently equipped regiment of IG several hours to slag away at it after all its power is gone.

According to Shadow Point. A mere flicker of the warp possess mroe firepower then a light cruiser.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Heh. Screw attack.

[Mando Knight]

BUT SHE NEVER ACTUALLY BLOWS UP THE PLANET! :smallmad:

It's always through a Dues Ex Machina, or some other plot device that causes the planet to explode for a dramatic escape.

It's a trick for dramatic effect, not a genuine story element.

That's like saying the unlucky workers at Cheryonobl carried around suitcase nukes.

It would be, if there was one person who did something at Chernobyl minutes before it melted down, then went to Three Mile Island, and then to several other meltdowns or near meltdowns minutes before the fact...

Zebes blows up as a last-ditch effort from Mother Brain to kill off anything that destroys her. SR388 blows up because Samus dropped a colony on it. Dark Aether disintegrates because Samus went on a one-woman rampage to drain the planet of all of its ambient energy, destabilizing it. Phazon blew up because Samus killed the being that had fused with its core. She's never blown 'em up herself, but it's a hard fact that if a planet is overrun with things like Space Pirates or X Parasites, the planet dies.

Most of Samus's badassery that I posit isn't so much exaggeration as rough (occasionally exaggerated) estimations based on observation: the private's log claiming Samus was Santa Claus or whatever was in-game lore scanned off of a GF trooper's corpse. Space Pirates seem to be Serious Business, and are capable of downing (armored!) GF troopers with a couple hits, at a roughly 2:1 Pirate/Trooper death ratio. If Samus doesn't die throughout all of the games, she is badass enough to storm an entire Pirate base and tear it to pieces. First thing she does after she reclaims her Power Suit in Zero Mission? Stomp back through the ruins and into the Pirate frigate, OHKOing the very Pirates she had to sneak away from to survive in her Zero Suit form. She takes down dedicated elite warriors that eat up dozens of missile rounds that would each obliterate standard troops. She fights through an entire cavern of monstrous beings and war machines in the space of mere hours. Pirates in Metroid Prime write apocalyptic logs... about Samus. Her suit's computer slices through most military-grade security systems within ten, twelve seconds.

If any single Space Marine can take her down with similar tech capabilities, it's likely to be one that's considered ridiculously overpowered for a single Space Marine. At a tech advantage, if she has a "standard" early/mid-game loadout (20-30ish Missiles, Charge Beam, a Jump upgrade, Varia Suit, possibly 5 or so Super Missiles (though this is on the lower end... a dedicated Metroid Player would have 40-ish Missiles by the first big boss and around 100 at the halfway mark)), she can take any of them on one-to-one except for a hero-type unit, where it goes down to roughly how many times larger the biggest war machine they've soloed is. Even then, there's only one way to be sure that you kill Samus. Blowing up the planet from beneath her feet doesn't work. Do it from orbit. (http://nukeitfromorbit.com/)

[Prime32]

What would the effects of introducing Phazon to the 40K-verse be? Or the X Parasites?

[Pharaoh's Fist]

What would the effects of introducing Phazon to the 40K-verse be? Or the X Parasites?

Imperial Guard: Get them off me! Get them off!
Space Marine: CHAAAAAAARGE!
Inquisition: Exterminatus. It's the only way to be sure.
Ork: WAAAGH!!! *squishing sounds are heard*
Tau: For the Greater Good, would you like some pheromones?
Eldar: Let us maneuver these creatures to the abode of our enemies!
Chaos: By the thousand trickeries of Tzeentch, I shall mutate these creatures for my purposes - what the... KHAN, GET OUT OF MY LAB!!!
Necron: Tasty.

[Prime32]

First thing she does after she reclaims her Power Suit in Zero Mission? Stomp back through the ruins and into the Pirate frigate, OHKOing the very Pirates she had to sneak away from to survive in her Zero Suit form. She takes down dedicated elite warriors that eat up dozens of missile rounds that would each obliterate standard troops.Not only that, but one shot of her basic weapon at this point will pass through walls uninterrupted, killing every pirate it touches and keep going until it passes outside the edge of the area. Did I mention that at this point her gun fires three beams at once at a rapid rate (each one the size of her head), can be charged, and freezes anything it doesn't kill?

[Emperor Ing]

As for phazon...

Imperial Guard: You will run out of amm-OH GOD ITS MELTING MY FEET!!
Space Marine: Where's the enemy? And what's that sound?
Inquisition: Exterminatus
Ork: Da bloo boyz waaagh better dan da green boyz?
Tau: FALL BACK!!!
Eldar: We're gonna whine about how skrewed we are as a race to it, cross our fingers, and hope for the best.
Chaos: Machinations of the Star God-damnit Kharn, can this wait?
Necron: We'll tell the Chozo you said "Hi" :smallwink: