Lesser Known PrCs: Dragonslayer

[JaronK]

Sometimes I like putting a spotlight on otherwise unknown PrCs. Today, I present the Dragonslayer, from Draconomicon. It's a half casting PrC, which generally gets it ignored, but it's actually quite handy. Why? Because it grants casting at level 1, and gives full martial weapon and full armor proficiencies, and the cost of two lame feats (Dodge and Iron Will). You also get Aura of Courage and +1 damage against dragons, as well as full BAB and two good saves.

All of this is very handy for entering classes that otherwise might cost a caster level, such as Spellsword and Abjurant Champion, because they require those proficiencies. Not bad. You do need +5 BAB, and taking more than one level in the class seems unadvised. Iron Will can actually be gotten from a location (thus not taking up a feat slot) and Dodge is often required for other things anyway (plus there are variants of dodge that you could use) so all in all this is a very handy class for qualifying for other classes. Definitely something gish builders should know about.

JaronK

[Grumman]

I love it for a one-level dip. You can get Iron Will from the Otyugh Hole special location (in exchange for 3,000 gp less loot), and Dodge can be replaced with one of the better Dodge feats. In exchange you get immunity to fear, +1 CL and +1 B.A.B.

[arguskos]

Hmm. Interesting. I've seen Dragonslayer before, but the half-casting really put me off. I think a compendium of lesser-known and lesser-loved PrCs might be a fun project to toss together. I'd be up for contributing a few reviews (Magelord, Sunmaster, Divine Seeker, Justice of Weald and Woe, to name a few). I'd probably include a "standard" build and a "non-standard" build for each, since I have a few that are fairly fun.

Sounds like it could be fun enough anyways.

[FishAreWet]

Ur Priest
Incantatrix
Vermin Keeper
Swiftblade

Are some casting classes that share prerequisites.

[Mongoose87]

Ur Priest
Incantatrix
Vermin Keeper
Swiftblade

Are some casting classes that share prerequisites.
I'm not sure how well Ur-Priest will synergize with the rest of those.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I've always been a big fan of using Dragonslayer to ease the entry into Spellsword without having to suck up the levels in Fighter. Although, I usually end up dropping Spellsword due to the fact that Greater Luminous Armor works so well with Abjurant Champion.

It may get some new life from me, though, thanks to it sharing a requirement with Swiftblade.

[Mongoose87]

Ur Priest
Incantatrix
Vermin Keeper
Swiftblade

Are some casting classes that share prerequisites.
I'm not sure how well Ur-Priest will synergize with the rest of those.

[Mystic Muse]

Mongoose you may want to delete your redundant post.

[JaronK]

I'm not sure how well Ur-Priest will synergize with the rest of those.

It synergizes with the Dragonslayer PrC, which is the point. Dragonslayer would advance Ur Priest casting, and they both share Iron Will as a prerequisite. Gaining full proficiencies for one feat (Dodge) isn't bad at all, neither is the save bump and the immunity to fear.

JaronK

[ex cathedra]

I've considered using it several times, but I generally just cop out and use racial weapon proficiencies to qualify for Swiftblade and use its BAB to qualify for AbjChamp.

Also, Kyuubi, you may want to delete your pointless post.

[Bibliomancer]

That's a useful piece of information. Unfortunately for being eligible for it, magic locations tend to have a limited duration, so if you use to it enter a prestige class, when the benefit expires you'll end up losing all features of those levels except for saves, base attack bonus, and hit points. I could be wrong, though. Does this Otyugh Hole have a permanent duration?

I don't have Draconomicon. Why does a melee class have 1/2 casting, thematically?

Also, where are Magelord and Swiftblade located? I haven't heard of them before but they sound interesting.

Also, aethernox, at the time of this posting, Mongoose had 2 posts that were identical, which means that Kyuubi's post is still relevant (technically).

[Thurbane]

I love it for a one-level dip. You can get Iron Will from the Otyugh Hole special location (in exchange for 3,000 gp less loot), and Dodge can be replaced with one of the better Dodge feats. In exchange you get immunity to fear, +1 CL and +1 B.A.B.
Yep, great for a 1 level gish dip. It also gives full Martial Weapon Proficiency and Armor Proficiency - so you can slide straight into things like Eldritch Knight without having to take a non-casting level dip.

[arguskos]

Also, where are Magelord and Swiftblade located? I haven't heard of them before but they sound interesting.
Magelord is in Lost Empires of Faerun, and is a Spell Mastery-themed casting class.

Swiftblade can be found in an online article, and is a haste-based gish class with 7/10 casting.

[RebelRogue]

Why does a melee class have 1/2 casting, thematically?
That's bothered me about it, too. To me a classic dragonslayer is thematically a pure melee thing. Maybe that's just me.

[Thurbane]

I think the theory was that it was for any class who wanted to battle dragons, so they gave it (limited) casting progression. IMHO, the should have had the progression start at level 2, to make a 1 level dip less obvious.

[ZeroNumerous]

That's bothered me about it, too. To me a classic dragonslayer is thematically a pure melee thing. Maybe that's just me.

Yes, but any smart dragon(and whoa do dragons get smart) would just... fly. Pure melee soon becomes puree.

[Mojo_Rat]

my guess is that it is half spell progression to make it a viable prc for paladins. its a suitable thematic class for a paladin to go into. Beyond that i dont know though.

[JaronK]

Indeed, Dragonslayers and Paladins have a lot in common. Thematically it works.

JaronK

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Don't forget about Rangers.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Wait, 1-level Dragonslayer dips were "lesser known"?

I guess I play too many gishes.

[FishAreWet]

Indeed, Dragonslayers and Paladins have a lot in common. Thematically it works.

JaronK

Except it's first level ability is totally redundant.

And Foryn there is no need to be an ass. A lot of people don't know about this class.

[JaronK]

Except it's first level ability is totally redundant.

You could be a Paladin of Freedom, in which case it's great.

JaronK

[Grumman]

That's a useful piece of information. Unfortunately for being eligible for it, magic locations tend to have a limited duration, so if you use to it enter a prestige class, when the benefit expires you'll end up losing all features of those levels except for saves, base attack bonus, and hit points. I could be wrong, though. Does this Otyugh Hole have a permanent duration?
Yes, it does. It's not a magical effect, and doesn't have a duration.

[Kylarra]

That's a useful piece of information. Unfortunately for being eligible for it, magic locations tend to have a limited duration, so if you use to it enter a prestige class, when the benefit expires you'll end up losing all features of those levels except for saves, base attack bonus, and hit points. I could be wrong, though. Does this Otyugh Hole have a permanent duration?
[/SIZE]All the feats gained via legendary locations in CScoundrel have permanent durations, it's the secondary bonuses (or primary, depending on your pov) that expire.

[TheOOB]

I personally find classes that encourage/require 1 level dips to be very poorly designed myself.

[Person_Man]

I personally find classes that encourage/require 1 level dips to be very poorly designed myself.

I agree. A class or PrC that is good for a 1 level dip but useless for everything else is a very poorly written class.

[Zeta Kai]

Yes, but any smart dragon(and whoa do dragons get smart) would just... fly. Pure melee soon becomes puree.

I LOL'd at that last part. Quite witty.

[Xenogears]

Yes, but any smart dragon(and whoa do dragons get smart) would just... fly. Pure melee soon becomes puree.

Why wouldn't melee have a method of flight? Pretty much any evil (or good with immunity to ability damage) character gets feathered wings for infinite non-magical flight.

[RagnaroksChosen]

well if you guys do decide to a lesser know prc's handbook thing... could i request you do non setting specific stuff first and then do seperate handbooks for settings?

I'm not a huge fan of dragon slayer though... its ok for a single dip... but i know alot of gms that don't like random dipping.

[Keld Denar]

What about using Dragonslayer to progress a partial casting PrC like Suel Arcanamach? Both have the Iron Will feat as a prereq. Seems like it makes a fair bit of sense to me.

[Heliomance]

I've always thought the Otyugh hole was stinky cheese, myself. Certainly unless your character is a thief-type, someone that would actually get thrown in such a place.

[Keld Denar]

Flavor wise, it is kinda odd. Mechanicswise, a lot of early published PrCs have some pretty CRAPPY feat prereqs that really make them less than desireable. Being able to essentially waive them for a bit of cash makes some of them a lot more interesting. Its no bit surprise that some of the stuff in Complete Champion and Complete Scoundrel are stronger than most of the stuff in Complete Warrior and the DMG. Mearls even came out and said that himself when he proposed his Hexblade fixes.

Otyuthe Hole and Frog God's Fane and a couple others that grant low power feats that are common prereqs help bring a lot of the low power earlier PrCs up a hair by making their prereqs a bit less oppressive. Nothing wrong with that.

[Thurbane]

I've always thought the Otyugh hole was stinky cheese, myself.
I imagine it would smell a LOT worse than that, if you catch my drift. :smalltongue:

[Zeta Kai]

The problem with the Otyugh Hole trick is that it is completely up to your DM to have such a thing in their campaign, & their is very little incentive for them to do so (other than allowing you to exploit this cheese). If a player of mine pushes for the inclusion of some obscure game element, I grow very suspicious about their motivations. In all the games I've ever played, none of the DMs even considered using the Hole (then again, Complete Scoundrel was pretty late in the 3E print cycle).

[Thrice Dead Cat]

The problem with the Otyugh Hole trick is that it is completely up to your DM to have such a thing in their campaign, & their is very little incentive for them to do so (other than allowing you to exploit this cheese). If a player of mine pushes for the inclusion of some obscure game element, I grow very suspicious about their motivations. In all the games I've ever played, none of the DMs even considered using the Hole (then again, Complete Scoundrel was pretty late in the 3E print cycle).

To be fair, it's up to the DM to allow book X or PrC Y to begin with, so your point is moot.

[Thurbane]

...generally speaking, things like magical locations are much more the domain of the DM to allow and place, than players taking feats and PrCs.

[Zeta Kai]

To be fair, I AM REITERATING EVERYTHING THAT YOU JUST SAID, so your point is moot.

Fixed it for you. :smallsigh:

[deuxhero]

If you had a generous DM, Loremaster gives the equivalent of both entry feats (+1 dodge bonus and +2 will saves) as options.