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Theogon
2010-01-05, 06:52 PM
i have a level 10 paladin of helm in my campaign. he has a 16 charisma and i want him to have several cohorts around him. even paladins supposed to be LG i want him to be cold and arrogant. and he treats those followers like slaves sometimes. is it possible?

Assassin89
2010-01-05, 07:01 PM
It could be possible, but the lawful good people following you will leave after learning about the behavior of the paladin. Your paladin will also take a -2 to leadership score for cruelty and possibly other penalties.

Cheesegear
2010-01-05, 07:01 PM
i have a level 10 paladin of helm in my campaign. he has a 16 charisma and i want him to have several cohorts around him. even paladins supposed to be LG i want him to be cold and arrogant. and he treats those followers like slaves sometimes. is it possible?

Level 10, with 16 Charisma...Gives him a Leadership score of 13. Presuming he's a Paladin, he also has a Special Mount, -2, gives him Ld 11. So, unless you have a stack of positive modifiers, no, your Paladin can not have followers.

He does, however, have a Level 6 Cohort. Be he a squire or Paladin or Knight-in-Training. Strictly speaking, as a Paladin of Helm, he can not treat people like dirt (and, if he does, that's negatives to his Leadership score, which is only at 11 to begin with), since Helm is pretty much strictly against that. Helm is the Watcher and Protector of the downtrodden.
If the Paladin treated people like crap; he'd likely lose his Paladin-hood.

Grumman
2010-01-05, 07:01 PM
I'd say no. If he's supposed to be cold and arrogant and treat his followers like slaves, he sounds unsuitable to be a Paladin or a leader.

GenPol
2010-01-05, 07:02 PM
As a tenth level Paladin with 16 Charisma, you have a leadership score of 13 (your level + Charisma Modifier). Look on the table here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#leadership)(yay for SRD), and you can see how many cohorts of each level you can attract.

You could be cold and nasty to your cohorts, but as you can see from the table underneath the leadership table, people will be less likely to join you because of it.

Keep in mind that if you abuse them too much, you'll lose all of your Paladin powers.

Edit: Mostly ninja'd. People are fast around here.

Cheesegear
2010-01-05, 07:06 PM
As a tenth level Paladin with 16 Charisma, you have a leadership score of 13 (your level + Charisma Modifier). Look on the table here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#leadership)(yay for SRD), and you can see how many cohorts of each level you can attract.

You forgot the -2 for having a Special Mount.

Also, A Paladin of Torm, might be able to treat people like dirt (but, that just means he keeps his Paladin powers, he'll still take -ves to his Ld score though). But, a Paladin of Helm? Hell no.

GenPol
2010-01-05, 07:07 PM
You forgot the -2 for having a Special Mount.

Was it specified that he did have a mount? If it was, then my bad.

Thurbane
2010-01-05, 08:09 PM
I'd say no. If he's supposed to be cold and arrogant and treat his followers like slaves, he sounds unsuitable to be a Paladin or a leader.
I disagree - you can be devoted to the ideals of law, order and the greater good, and still be a social reject. I know plenty of people IRL who have good hearts, but their lack of social graces makes them come off as complete arrogant, condescending jackasses. One is a lecturer and ex-captain of a sports team, so it's not like it's incompatible with being a leader-type.

A paladin of St Cuthbert, for example, could be fairly cold and obsessed with enforcing retribution. Also, look at some of the ideals of LG - Archons, Solars etc. Can they not also be exceedingly cold and condescending?

Milskidasith
2010-01-05, 08:29 PM
Aren't solars explicitly stated to be humble? Seems rather hard to be humble and cold at the same time.

Riffington
2010-01-05, 08:38 PM
If he is cold, yet has a Charisma above 14, he has a spectacular presence in some other way. Perhaps there is something about him that invites worship?
Thurbane's examples don't have that kind of Charisma - but this guy is really something special with that kind of Charisma. People genuinely believe in his ideals and see him as embodying those ideals in a beyond-human way. "Want to have a beer with", no. "Follow his glorious vision", yes.

Thurbane
2010-01-05, 08:43 PM
Aren't solars explicitly stated to be humble? Seems rather hard to be humble and cold at the same time.
Sorry, must be thinking of the wrong celestial. I know there's one (some) that have a rather aloof demeanour.

I guess it all comes down to how you define the differences between alignment and personality. IMHO, there's no reason a LG character can't be aloof, ruthless or have other "negative" peronality traits. YMMV.

Mando Knight
2010-01-05, 08:55 PM
Also, A Paladin of Torm, might be able to treat people like dirt (but, that just means he keeps his Paladin powers, he'll still take -ves to his Ld score though). But, a Paladin of Helm? Hell no.

He can be cold and arrogant, but the Watcher treats followers who treat their followers like dirt even worse. His followers are supposed to be protectors and guardians, not oppressors.

Actually, while a Paladin can be a Knight in Sour Armor (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KnightInSourArmor) within reason, the moment he treats his followers like dirt is the moment he rides his Special Mount on the highway to Fallsville. He can be cold and bitter, but mistreating your subordinates is never the right thing to do.