+CL to spells

[memnarch]

What does this sort of thing do again? I forgot where to look it up and google is not helping at the moment.

+CL being stuff like Elemental Spellcasting (+1CL to spells cast of the type you choose; air, fire, earth, or water)

[Zincorium]

Anything that mentions caster level. Say, fireball. Range goes up with increased level, so does damage.

Also helps with dispelling and such.

[ex cathedra]

Range, Damage, Duration, ability to penetrate SR, various checks... quite nearly everything, depending on the spell.

[memnarch]

It doesn't change the level of the spell though, right?

[Optimystik]

It doesn't change the level of the spell though, right?

No, metamagic does that.

[deuxhero]

Where is Elemental Spellcasting from? It seems really poor as a reserve feat gives you that benefit and more.

[Kylarra]

Where is Elemental Spellcasting from? It seems really poor as a reserve feat gives you that benefit and more.
Planar handbook.

[memnarch]

Where is Elemental Spellcasting from? It seems really poor as a reserve feat gives you that benefit and more.

Yeah, but those you to be able to cast 2nd level and higher spells. Can't do that 1st level.

[Raging Gene Ray]

Boosting CL always seemed very lackluster to me. There are rare and expensive material components and extremely specialized feats for what? + 10 feet to range (when we're talking about hundreds of feet)? An extra d6 Damage? Another minute of duration?

Who cares about any of that? Eventually, the damage caps (A 10CL Fireball and a 60 CL Fireball both deal 10d6 damage), so now you're stuck with a useless feat.

If CL affected save DCs, then I might care...but I still can't see why anyone would go through so much trouble to boost a handful of spells by a measly 1 or 2 CLs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. Maybe there's some benefit I'm not seeing.

[Kylarra]

Boosting CL always seemed very lackluster to me. There are rare and expensive material components and extremely specialized feats for what? + 10 feet to range (when we're talking about hundreds of feet)? An extra d6 Damage? Another minute of duration?

Who cares about any of that? Eventually, the damage caps (A 10CL Fireball and a 60 CL Fireball both deal 10d6 damage), so now you're stuck with a useless feat.

If CL affected save DCs, then I might care...but I still can't see why anyone would go through so much trouble to boost a handful of spells by a measly 1 or 2 CLs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. Maybe there's some benefit I'm not seeing.Preventing your buffs from being dispelled/doing the same to other people.

[arguskos]

CL is mostly useful IMO for duration increases (not typically capped) and punching through SR. The duration is really the big winner here, though some uncapped damage spells are great too. :smallamused:

[Gorbash]

Boosting CL always seemed very lackluster to me. There are rare and expensive material components and extremely specialized feats for what? + 10 feet to range (when we're talking about hundreds of feet)? An extra d6 Damage? Another minute of duration?

Who cares about any of that? Eventually, the damage caps (A 10CL Fireball and a 60 CL Fireball both deal 10d6 damage), so now you're stuck with a useless feat.

If CL affected save DCs, then I might care...but I still can't see why anyone would go through so much trouble to boost a handful of spells by a measly 1 or 2 CLs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. Maybe there's some benefit I'm not seeing.

Well yeah, when you're applying it to Fireball at lvl 10, it's useless. But if you're doing it with other (better) spells which cap you didn't reach, it gets better.

For example, Greater Magic Weapon. Normally, you'd get a +5 Weapon at lvl 20, but if you start stacking CL you can do it 5 levels before, getting the good kind of Phantom Steed earlier, giving more spells with Imbue With Spell Ability, making it easier to trip/grapple with Telekinesis... Every +1 also makes your spells harder to dispel, spells you try to dispel easier, giving you a boost to CL checks (at some point you can take Arcane Mastery which allows you to take 10 on CL checks and pass most of SR automatically).

Think of it like BAB for warrior-type classes.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Nevermind that if you're a magic item crafter you arguably get to make certain magic items at a lower level. If you can manage to scrape together a +2cl on evocations you can craft the various tomes of inherent bonus to X at ECL 14 as an ur-priest. Though like I said using the increased caster level in that way is a bit cheesy and on kinda tenuous ground RAW-wise. :smalltongue:

[Cyclocone]

Yeah, but those you to be able to cast 2nd level and higher spells. Can't do that 1st level.


Tell that to the 1st level human Wizard doing 2d6 acid damage at-will thanks to Acidic Splatter and Precocious Apprentice.:smallwink:

And like the people say, CL pumping isn't for Fireball, its for Maw of Chaos (and Gate and Holy Word).
It's also not hard to boost to stupendous levels, thanks to Circle Magic, Consumptive Fields etc.

[Optimystik]

The "Word" line (Dictum, Blasphemy etc.) get pretty damn ridiculous with high CL. This is how clerics can one-shot dragons in 3.5. (In 3.0 they used Harm, though that was two-shot.)

[IthilanorStPete]

Divine casters have it perhaps the eaisest. Bead of Karma for 20k to pump CL by 4. The feat Divine Spell Power and a little bit of optimzation of the turning check for another +4. Then you've got the usual Ioun stones, Create Magic Tattoo, Adept Spirit, etc.

[Stegyre]

Yeah, but those you to be able to cast 2nd level and higher spells. Can't do that 1st level.
You might be surprised what can be accomplished at 1st level with Heighten Spell, DMM (Heighten), and a reserve feat. (Extra Turning, available as a domain ability, for extra cheese.)

[memnarch]

You might be surprised what can be accomplished at 1st level with Heighten Spell, DMM (Heighten), and a reserve feat. (Extra Turning, available as a domain ability, for extra cheese.)

I know about DMM Heighten, but I want to play an arcane type, not a cleric.


Tell that to the 1st level human Wizard doing 2d6 acid damage at-will thanks to Acidic Splatter and Precocious Apprentice.:smallwink:
....

I've heard arguments about whether the feat actually allows you to cast 2nd level spells. Any reason why?

[Prime32]

I've heard arguments about whether the feat actually allows you to cast 2nd level spells. Any reason why?The arguments are mostly "but you shouldn't be able to do that!" - it lets you do things like qualify for PrCs (notably mystic theurge) with only one level.

[Optimystik]

I've heard arguments about whether the feat actually allows you to cast 2nd level spells. Any reason why?

Literally, it allows you to cast one 2nd-level spell. It takes a generous DM to extend that to being able to cast 2nd-level spells.

Sanctum Spell applied to that one spell makes it 3rd-level - assuming an even more generous DM.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Literally, it allows you to cast one 2nd-level spell. It takes a generous DM to extend that to being able to cast 2nd-level spells.


If a sorcerer only knows and can cast 1 spell of 3rd level (Stalwart Battle Sorcerer with low charisma), does that mean he can't take levels in a prestige class that requires him to be able to cast 3rd level spells?

[Twilight Jack]

I've heard arguments about whether the feat actually allows you to cast 2nd level spells. Any reason why?

It's because the wording allows you to have a single 2nd level spell in your spellbook which you can prepare 1/day and attempt to cast with a DC 8 Spellcraft check. There is some disagreement as to whether that counts as the ability to cast 2nd level arcane spells as the designers intended it.

The question isn't whether you can cast the spell, it's whether the restricted and uncertain casting qualifies you for prerequisites which require the casting of 2nd level spells.

By pure RAW, it works, but many DMs (including me) veto its use in this way.

[Signmaker]

Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. Maybe there's some benefit I'm not seeing.

1. Resistance vs Dispelling (Sometimes important)
2. Increased duration on spells (Very important for buffing)
3. HolyWordBots (Rare but annoying)

Those would be the first three that come to mind.
That being said, there are plenty of ways to up CL without having to waste feats. Create Magic Tattoo is a useful +1, and is basically a second level spell slot + 100 gp. Alternatively, Suffer the Flesh lets you sacrifice up to 10 Con for +1 CL/2 Con, which is situationally useful as a buff-booster. Ankh of Ascension lets you sacrifice a spell slot to boost the CL of the next <=Spell Level spell you cast that turn by 4.

But I digress.

[IthilanorStPete]

I know about DMM Heighten, but I want to play an arcane type, not a cleric.

Take the feat Southern Magician to be able to cast arcane spells as divien some # of times/day, then dip Sacred Exorcist for turning.

[Stegyre]

then dip Sacred Exorcist for turning.Alternatively, Divine Sorcery (Undeath Domain) will give a Sorcerer Extra Turning.

If a character can dip a level of cleric, I think Alternative Source Spell is better than Southern Magician for applying DMM to what would otherwise be arcane spells. But it sounds like the OP wants to be a pure arcanist.

[Yuki Akuma]

Divine casters have it perhaps the eaisest. Bead of Karma for 20k to pump CL by 4. The feat Divine Spell Power and a little bit of optimzation of the turning check for another +4. Then you've got the usual Ioun stones, Create Magic Tattoo, Adept Spirit, etc.

Shadowcraft Mage has it easiest - the Silent Images he'll be heightening into 9th level slots anyway are cast at +9 CL without any other CL boosters.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Shadowcraft Mage has it easiest - the Silent Images he'll be heightening into 9th level slots anyway are cast at +9 CL without any other CL boosters.

Urgh. The more I hear about that class...

[Yuki Akuma]

Urgh. The more I hear about that class...

It's not their problem that WotC decided to print Earth Spell in the same book, and that they need to Heighten their spells anyway to be totally effective.

Seriously, I think Earth Spell was designed with Shadowcraft Mages in mind.