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tbarrie
2010-01-06, 12:04 AM
New Preview article is up (http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4pr/20100106) and has stats for Torog. He's a level 34 solo, which I believe puts him one notch lower than every other god for whom they've done stats so far.

Discuss.

Sir Homeslice
2010-01-06, 12:22 AM
He needs to do more ongoing damage, the Sickle needs to be able to target bloodied creatures, Torturous Chainlash is kinda lol, and I like Crawling Blood and Perpetual Crawler.

I like the mental images though.

P.S: Arcane Trickster (found lower on the page) sucks.

Draz74
2010-01-06, 01:15 AM
PHB3 contains 6 classes. I know Monk, Psion, Ardent, and Seeker. Do we know the other two?

Does Psionic not get a Defender yet, or do Divine and Primal only get one new class each, or does Divine not get any in spite of being listed on the cover as benefiting from this book?

hamishspence
2010-01-06, 03:42 AM
So far, there are 2 CR 35 deities (Tiamat, Vecna) and a CR 36 deity (Bahamut) so the idea of them varying in CR has precedent.

It does mean though, that the most powerful currently statted primordial (Solkara) and demon prince (Demogorgon) are equal to this deity in power though.

Blazing Rorn the Fury (Forgotten Realms) appears to occupy the intermediate zone between normal primordials and deities- it has the "Immune to attacks from non-epic beings" property that Tiamat and Vecna both has, but it is called a primordial, and is CR 33.

tcrudisi
2010-01-06, 03:59 AM
What deities have been printed thus far, and what books may I find them in?

hamishspence
2010-01-06, 05:18 AM
Tiamat in Draconomicon I (chromatic dragons)
Bahamut in Draconomicon II (metallic dragons)
Vecna in Open Grave

I'm not sure if D&D Insider has statted any out, besides this preview of Torog.

dsmiles
2010-01-06, 05:33 AM
I'm sorry, I just don't feel the need to stat out deities. So, the CR of a deity has no bearing on my campaigns anyways. But there is precedent for more powerful and less powerful deities dating all the way back to AD&D Deities and Demigods.

tbarrie
2010-01-06, 09:53 AM
So far, there are 2 CR 35 deities (Tiamat, Vecna) and a CR 36 deity (Bahamut) so the idea of them varying in CR has precedent.

So there are. I skipped Draconomicon II, but had somehow thought that Bahamut was level 35. Okay, so this is nothing new.


It does mean though, that the most powerful currently statted primordial (Solkara) and demon prince (Demogorgon) are equal to this deity in power though.

Blazing Rorn the Fury (Forgotten Realms) appears to occupy the intermediate zone between normal primordials and deities- it has the "Immune to attacks from non-epic beings" property that Tiamat and Vecna both has, but it is called a primordial, and is CR 33.

Solkara isn't the most powerful primordial; Mual-Tar from Dragon magazine is level 35. (It's in the compendium.) It's also immune to non-epic attacks, which I would have thought was standard for Primordials; does Solkara not have that?

(Solkara being only level 34 surprised me more than Torog, incidentally; aren't primordials supposed to be more powerful than deities in general? I'm pretty sure there's a mention in the DMG of multiple deities teaming up to take down single primordials back in the Dawn War. And I know Orcus and Demogorgon are former primordials, but I thought they were supposed to have dropped in power when they became demon princes.)


I'm sorry, I just don't feel the need to stat out deities.

It's okay, dude. You don't need to apologize for that.:)

hamishspence
2010-01-06, 09:54 AM
The first Dragon Compendium does not appear to have Mual-Tar- is there a second one out?

Most powerful in a currently published book, anyway- as of when I got The Plane Below.

Lost Demiurge
2010-01-06, 10:27 AM
(Solkara being only level 34 surprised me more than Torog, incidentally; aren't primordials supposed to be more powerful than deities in general? I'm pretty sure there's a mention in the DMG of multiple deities teaming up to take down single primordials back in the Dawn War. And I know Orcus and Demogorgon are former primordials, but I thought they were supposed to have dropped in power when they became demon princes.)


Eh, the way I look at it, I figure the primordials lost some power due to the Gods beating the snot out of them. And the gods have been active for millenia... Figure they'd catch up to their predecessors eventually.

tbarrie
2010-01-06, 11:04 AM
The first Dragon Compendium does not appear to have Mual-Tar- is there a second one out?

The on-line Compendium; I believe the book compiling some of Dragon's articles in physical form is called the Annual.

hamishspence
2010-01-06, 11:45 AM
ah- the one you need to subscribe to, to get.

FoE
2010-01-06, 01:17 PM
A god's level isn't the sole determination of its power, only the strength of its physical form.

That said, I do believe Torog is among the weakest of deities. He's an imprisoned god, albeit a prison of his own making.

Mando Knight
2010-01-06, 02:07 PM
Torog has some fail-tastic abilities if he were ever sent against a fellow deity. Guy's also the slowest, and the only one that can't fly or teleport. 'Course, you're underground. How much good is flying going to help you against him?

FoE
2010-01-06, 03:29 PM
His auras do seem a bit lackluster.

I'm disappointed that his physical form is apparently a guy with a scythe. I imagined him as some giant hairless worm/badger hybrid that burrows through the ground, given the whole "King That Crawls" thing.

Incidentally, for everyone talking about primordials: I think their strength varied from individual to individual. Mual-tar the Thunder Serpent from Dragon #370 is a Level 35 Solo, and he's been weakened from centuries of imprisonment. The combined might of Bahamut, Moradin and Pelor couldn't take him down when he was at full strength.

Meanwhile, all ettins spring from the blood of a primordial who got his ass kicked by Demogorgon, so there's at least one primordial who was weaker than the Demon Prince, a Level 34 Solo.

Mystic Muse
2010-01-06, 04:22 PM
There was also The Primordial who cleaved Io in half in one blow but Tiamat and Bahamut combined absolutely slaughtered him.

DragonBaneDM
2010-01-06, 04:41 PM
Where do they describe his appearance in that article? I can't seem to find it.

Oh, and it says "ruined legs", so maybe that implies that a good bit of them might still be working. The popular "centipede-man" theory is probably still on.

hamishspence
2010-01-06, 04:57 PM
The weakest primordial that can be encountered so far (weak thanks to a very long imprisonment) is Piranoth from Revenge of the Giants:

Piranoth is a Level 19 Solo.

Blazing Rorn is Level 33 Solo- still weaker than Demogorgon.

FoE
2010-01-06, 05:06 PM
The weakest primordial that can be encountered so far (weak thanks to a very long imprisonment) is Piranoth from Revenge of the Giants:

Piranoth is a Level 19 Solo.

Man, what a bitch!

Is Piranoth by chance a fish-guy? I don't own that module, so ...

hamishspence
2010-01-06, 05:12 PM
Three-headed giant whose body is constantly changing- fire, ice, and earth parts of it moving around.

Creator and master of the fire, frost, and earth giants- so its a pretty sad comedown. Still, apparently this his him at his lowest- at full power he might be on a par with the others.

Solkara is fish-guy. Or rather, fish-gal :smallamused:

Nai_Calus
2010-01-07, 02:05 AM
PHB3 contains 6 classes. I know Monk, Psion, Ardent, and Seeker. Do we know the other two?

Does Psionic not get a Defender yet, or do Divine and Primal only get one new class each, or does Divine not get any in spite of being listed on the cover as benefiting from this book?

We know the name of the fourth psionic class, Battlemind. Presumably it's the defender. We'll find out in February.

The Divine class is unknown at this point.