[3.x.x] The Jakeverse, A Traveler's Guide

[Doc Roc]

This will become a handbook.

Let me repeat. Will become.

Right now, it's a collection of my commonly used tricks, some of my more famously stupid ideas, and a few really interesting implications for world-building. While there are a lot of superficial resemblances to the Tippyverse in what I'm going to lay out, it's probably worth mentioning that this is a wildly more extreme articulation of it than the one that Tippy presented. It owes more to the Paranoid Wizard of the WotC CO boards than anything else.


Tricks You Should Know

Many of these are early entry hacks. Some rules text may be reproduced but will be paraphrased to fall under the loopholes in the OGL\ICL.

Outline for now, attribution will be offered where possible:

Dragonsblood pool
Magical locations are awesome. It's pretty simple.
But the Dragonsblood pool in complete mage is something pretty special from a CO\TO standpoint. Why? Simple. It offers one arcane spell slot of 1st to 3rd level or the highest you can cast, whichever is lower. It offers this to any spontaneous caster of second level spells or higher. This includes favored souls and many similar divine casters, and does exactly what you are thinking it does.

Song And Dance Routine

{REDACTED} Song

Prerequisite:
{REDACTED}

Benefit: By expending uses of your bardic music, you can
heighten your illusion spells without using higher-level spell
slots. For every daily use of your bardic music you expend during
the casting of a spell, you can increase the effective level of that
spell by +1. {REDACTED}
You can’t raise a spell above 9th level with this feat.

PG 170, Races of Faerun.
No Errata.

If this needs serious explanation, you need to get a better grasp of early entry tricks.
Versatile Spellcaster
One level higher? Turns out that this is hilarious. It's never been errata'd, and while it clearly violated intent, it does basically work.
Sanctum Spell

SANCTUM SPELL [METAMAGIC]
{REDACTED}
Prerequisite: {REDACTED}
Benefi t: A sanctum spell has an effective spell level 1
higher than its normal level if cast in your sanctum (see
below), but if not cast in the sanctum, the spell has an effective
spell level 1 lower than normal. All effects dependent
on spell level (including save DCs) are calculated according
to the adjusted level.
A sanctum spell uses a spell slot of the spell’s normal level.
{REDACTED}

Magical Training
This feat from PGtF page 41 gives anyone who takes it a minimum arcane caster level of 1. This is hilarious and awesome and stupidly useful.
Jacob's Ladder
For this, I'll use the most extreme example.
Imagine for a moment, that you are a human favored soul of third level with precocious apprentice, sanctum spell, and magical training. Now let us suppose that you made a specific Dragonsblood Pool your sanctum, or used an Acorn of Far Travel (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040710a) to treat it as such. So now, you can cast 3rd level arcane spells. So now you can get a third level arcane spell slot from the pool. This means that you, a third level favored soul, have third level spells. Third level arcane spells. If you can't break this, don't speak to me.
Drake-helms
These allow you off-list spells, no ifs, ands, or buts. They are amazing, though expensive. Found in the Explorer's Guide, an eberron book.
The Illumian Dance
Take a good close look at the Naenhoon rune word. There's a more complicated trick involving it, but for now, we'll just dance happily over non-****ty racial abilities. Unfortunately, it's never gotten any errata. This is.... a problem.
Tainted Scholar!?
Casting based off taint. When the conservative readings produce a caster with up to 13 extra ninth level spell slots, you have a huge problem. Tainted Scholar, simply put, is one of the single strongest PrCs in the game. Oh and it also gets pretty good class abilities.
Glyph Seals
They can store personal range spells, of the non-harmful variety. Many of these do not allow SR or Saving throws, and have hilariously detrimental effects. MiC for these.
Polymorph Any Object
My standard trick is to get turned into a piece of planetar flesh, and then get turned into a planetar. Hilariously, inherent bonuses will still carry across, though aging bonuses will not. Lillends are also fantastic, due to the placement of their bardic music in its own section, making it an automatic or natural ability. This has, to my knowledge, never been errata'd.
Beholder Mage.
It's in Lords of Madness, in the beholder's section. Go read it.
Now understand that there are plenty of ways to become a beholder.
Restoration Shuffle
Restoration is a spell with a problem. A big and real problem...
"It also dispels negative levels and restores one experience level to a creature who has had a level drained"
It doesn't give you your old levels back. It levels you back up. Enough said.
Inspire Greatness
This is a really odd one. It's a ill-used and in fact largely useless class feature of bards. With a few exceptions. See, it offers extra hitdice, and we can, with the use of level drain, timing, and a well-placed restoration, place your levels "on top" of those bonus hitdice, and then hit you with psychic reformation. This allows early entry against skill requirements.
In other cases, there are a few abilities that key off of hit-dice.
Spell Clocks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070312a)
Obviated material components with 100% repeatability and no cool-down.
Dusk Is Hungry
Dusk giants have a problem. A big fat terrible problem. Well, actually, if I am honest, they have a few problems. One is that they like to eat people. Another is that their entry was poorly edited. These two problems come together when you realize that the cannibalize effect that allows them to gain hitdice and many good things....
Well, it's an (ex) special attack. This means that a simple polymorph lets you get what you need for a variety of abusive early entry tricks combined with other stuff on this list.
Dragonblood Spell-pact
So this is a really weird one. Dragons of Faerun has a couple of bizarre or good options, but this one really sticks out. Basically, you can pay xp to swap spells with another character. They have to be the same level, unfortunately, but they don't need to be on your spell list. Unfortunately, the XP cost is pretty high, but there are plenty of ways around that.
Thoughtbottle
This item from complete arcane is easily one of the stupidest things ever printed. Just read it and weep. Banned in almost every campaign I've ever heard of.
Elemental Weirds And You
Elemental weirds get powerful divinations, sorcerer casting and... wait. Back up. Those divinations appear to be at free action speed. That's right, weirds can make an infinite number of divinations per turn. Oops.
The Far Realm And You
In certain cases, leaving the Far Realms doesn't put you back WHEN you entered, or when it is now. This is bad for obvious reasons of being extremely accessible time travel.
Time Regression And You
Time Regression And
Time Regression
Time
Fnord
The Sandwich Trick
This was empty for too long. Originally devised by a good friend of mine, Tleilaxu_Ghola, this is possibly my favorite trick in D&D:
1. Take one sandwich.
2. Hire a wizard to cast Polymorph Any Object, turning the sandwich into a rabbit. Use a scroll, if you prefer.
3. Manifest Astral Seed.
4. Kill yourself.
5. Use Mind Switch to possess the rabbit
6. Use Metamorphosis/Astral Construct to smash the Astral Seed.
7. Wait for polymorph to expire.
You are now a sandwich. Of doom.
Savage Species Rituals
There are a variety of type-granting and alignment subtyping rituals available in SS. Great for sneaking your way into certain classes. Interestingly, while most of them have huge prices associated with them, Savage Species also unfortunately defines a couple new abusive uses for Wish.
Assume Supernatural Ability
This one just bears mention, not explanation. It's in Savage Species.
Dorfls
Psi-crystals. Psychic Reformation, and XPH pg. 67, Sidebar
Go read it.
Spock
Rary's Arcane Conversion merely requires that you know the spell, not that you be able to prepare it. Likewise with the Signature Spell hits from Halruaan Elder.
Hexer
This PrC from masters of the wild is weirdly hard to get into, but rains joyous oddities on those who seek it. Great in a lot of respects excluding the intended one.
Primal Scholar
Secret of Power + Unfettered Heroism = "Recharge Magic Just For You."



A World of Very Great Strangeness

Imagine a world where many or most problems are decidable in nature. A medieval society with access to immense reaches of the modern technology we associate with computing, minus the physical limitations that shape our associations with it. This is the smallest part of the very odd things one might see in a properly RAW universe.

Imagine a world where dragons are hunted for their essence, where the sign of a leathery wing on the horizon is a cause to rejoice rather than panic. Where sorcerers are built, not born.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Don't Panic!

[Signmaker]

Bring a hardhat.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Bring a hardhat towel.

Fixed it for you.

[Adumbration]

Don't forget to grab that shovel with you.

[bosssmiley]

I'm feeling so iconographic right now.

http://rosenblumtv.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/men_at_work_sign2.gif

@Doc Roc: Content first, then post. Tis customary. :smallwink:

[Zincorium]

Er, Doc Roc, you could at least give a one-sentence concept of what you're planning here.

Alternately, you could let the thread get overrun by off-topic banter and various suppositions while you write up the contents of an actual post. I don't think anyone will complain.

[Zeta Kai]

Alternately, you could let the thread get overrun by off-topic banter and various suppositions while you write up the contents of an actual post. I don't think anyone will complain.

Yeah, we won't be obtrusive. Not at all...

[Doc Roc]

I was really considering just never filling in the OP and using this as an informal banter thread as a joke, but you'll find that material is starting to filter into the OP.

[Doc Roc]

Just outlining the tricks I use is ridiculous.

[Signmaker]

Jake, do you mind if the ToS crew submits some of their ridiculous accomplishments? Stuff like Olo's bolt-spammer?

Regardless, I'd like if you mention the Ghost Skill EE.

[Doc Roc]

I'd be delighted. The list of stuff we've compiled, tested, recovered, or just scavenged from the titanic and leathery husk of 3.x CO is pretty incredible.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Jake, do you mind if the ToS crew submits some of their ridiculous accomplishments? Stuff like Olo's bolt-spammer multiple suicides?

Fixed it for you.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Someone called? *Commits Suicide in an Entertaining Way*

[Signmaker]

Fixed it for you.

You fix a lot of things I type.

I feel as though just about any ToS ban with a story behind it would probably qualify.

[Olo Demonsbane]

You fix a lot of things I type.

I feel as though just about any ToS ban with a story behind it would probably qualify.

Mortalbane was an entertaining one with another suicide. Can we just post stuff for you to add Tide?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Alita deserves a mention, just for being a better Tarrasque at 13 HD.

And for getting banned 3 times.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

You fix a lot of things I type.

It's not my fault that I am super special awesome.

[Signmaker]

Alita deserves a mention, just for being a better Tarrasque at 13 HD.

And for getting banned 3 times.

You mean Alita's 'immune to everything' mechanic? That was fun. I found Saph's method of victory against it especially amusing.

Wizard of High Sorcery - Black Robes - Magic of Hunger should probably receive some note for being able to generate an arbitrary amount of bonus spells for every spell level you can cast. And not even using any real tricks to do it.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Prestige Paladin definitely deserves a mention. Still my favorite breakage.

[Signmaker]

Do you suppose submissions should be specific outlineable tricks only, or more broad stuff too?

[ex cathedra]

Spelldancing + Persistent Spell + Immunity to Con damage, Fatigue, and Exhaustion.

Shape Soulmeld: Strongheart Vest + damn near anything, it seems, that exchanges ability damage for a benefit.

[Olo Demonsbane]

The Acorn of Far Travels + Hathran + Sanctum Spell combo could definitely be mentioned...

All of the Vorpal tricks that Sign and I had...

Warblade + RKV + WRT...

Hmmm...there are lots of them...

[Olo Demonsbane]

All right, a short list of some of my better tricks (that I could remember on the spur of the moment)...and my suicidal ones.

Olo's Tricks Prestige Paladin So you start off your build by taking levels in cleric. Maybe be a caster, a DMM-user...it doesn't matter.
Then, as soon as your build allows it, take a level in Prestige Paladin. It won't even reduce your caster level. This is all fine and dandy...doesn't look like anything really happened.
But now you can take feats that apply to paladin spellcasting and use them on your cleric spells. Two culprits present themselves: Battle Blessing and Sword of the Arcane Order.
Now your cleric can cast 2 spells a round and can prepare spells from the wizard and cleric lists. :smallbiggrin:

Bolt Spammer Begin as some class that gets bonus feats and full BAB...probably a fighter. You dual wield hand crossbows, and make sure to get the following feats: EWP (Hand Crossbow), Round House Kick, Lightning Maces, Improved Critical, and Double Hit; make sure to get the prereqs as well. Now multiclass into Disciple of Disapater. :smallconfused:
You're probably asking yourself, "What the heck is this guy thinking? These feats in no way go together!" But now we get into magic items. Buy yourself two +1 Aptitude Splitting Hand Crossbows. And something that gives you unlimited nonmagical ammo (Quiver of someone or other).
Now, you have a critical range of a good amount...13-20 or better. You'll have a lot of attacks, thanks to 2 splitting weapons. And every time you get a critical threat, you get 8 extra attacks! You have a chance to critical threat on them too. Think about it. :smallbiggrin:
Effectively, you gain NI attacks...it never goes truly infinite, because of the fact that the chain can be ruined by a stroke of very bad luck.
However, beware of the psionic power Death Urge. It causes you to attack yourself, and automatically crit. Well, you crit, so you get 8 extra attacks...which all crit as well. Then you get 64 extra attacks...and so on. And atomize yourself. :smalleek:

Acorn Caster You are a Hathran. Aside from a few minor things, your build is irrelevant (I went with Wizard 1/Druid 1/Mystic Theurge 10/Hathran 1).
You have the Sanctum Spell feat, and your sanctum is in Rasheman. It contains an oak tree. Every few weeks, you teleport back, cast Acorn of Far Travels on it. Now, whenever you carry your acorn, you are standing under the oak tree: in your sanctum, in Rasheman. This gives you amazing versatility as a caster. :smallamused:
But that is not the most impressive part. In a first level slot, prepare "Sanctum (+0) Magic Missile". Now, you are in your sanctum, so it counts as a second level spell, despite being in a first level slot. Then use your Hathran powers to turn it into a second level spell...lets say "Heightened (+1) Magic Missile". Not too bad, right? Well, now you can turn that spell into "Heightened (+1) Sanctum (+0) Magic Missile". Then you change that into a 3rd level slot. And so on.
You can apply different metamagics, changing Heightened (+3) Magic Missile into Empowered (+2) Heightened (+1) Magic Missile, as long as the spell level + the amount heightened doesn't exceed 9th level. You can end up with quickened maximized persisted heightened 9th level spells at 8th level. :smallsmile:

Mortalbane Mortalbane, from the Book of Vile Darkness, is a wonderful feat. 5 times a day, it lets you add 2d6 damage to an SLA. Doesn't sound too powerfull...
The thing is, it applies to all of your SLAs. This gives Truenamers a damage boost, lets Warlocks do extra damage, etc etc
The even more impressive thing is that you can stack it. So instead of doing +2d6 5 times a day, you instead can deal +10d6 1/day. Pretty cool, huh? Especially as you can do this at first level...
But wait! There's more! Apply Mortalbane (x5) to an SLA that deals damage each round (thunderhead), or one that gives you a weapon (flame blade). Or even the little baby kobold commoner 1s Draconic Ritual: Power Word Pain. 4d4 rounds of 11d6 damage from a CR 1/(4? 6? 2? 3? I forget what kobolds are these days...) creature. :smalleek:
My personal favorite use is to apply it to the DFAs Voracious Dispelling. for every spell effect you dispel, you deal 10d6+spell level damage. Not half bad on a fully buffed DMM-Persist Cleric :smallwink:

[9mm]

I guess I'll add my Bombing Run trick;

You are an Arcane Archer 2 on a flying mount; in your hand a splitting bow; and in your spellslots are meticulously meta-magiced area spells (see Olo's Acorn, Incanix, ect.) designed for the biggest bang you can muster. Imbue the arrow and let it fly, and watch as splitting turns one spell into a twined spell; bonus points if you twinned it beforehand too.

[IthilanorStPete]

aethernox's Wizard using Wings of Cover trick:
-A wizard's spells known are all the spells in his spellbook, and he can scribe any arcane spell into his spellbook.
-Take levels in Halruaan Elder (Shining South) to gain Signature Spell as a bonus feat. Choose a Sorceror-only spell like Wings of Cover/Flurry, and ta-da! You can spontaneously cast it by burning preared spells!

[Adumbration]

All right, a short list of some of my better tricks (that I could remember on the spur of the moment)...and my suicidal ones.



Bolt Spammer Begin as some class that gets bonus feats and full BAB...probably a fighter. You dual wield hand crossbows, and make sure to get the following feats: EWP (Hand Crossbow), Round House Kick, Lightning Maces, Improved Critical, and Double Hit; make sure to get the prereqs as well. Now multiclass into Disciple of Disapater. :smallconfused:
You're probably asking yourself, "What the heck is this guy thinking? These feats in no way go together!" But now we get into magic items. Buy yourself two +1 Aptitude Splitting Hand Crossbows. And something that gives you unlimited nonmagical ammo (Quiver of someone or other).
Now, you have a critical range of a good amount...13-20 or better. You'll have a lot of attacks, thanks to 2 splitting weapons. And every time you get a critical threat, you get 8 extra attacks! You have a chance to critical threat on them too. Think about it. :smallbiggrin:
Effectively, you gain NI attacks...it never goes truly infinite, because of the fact that the chain can be ruined by a stroke of very bad luck.
However, beware of the psionic power Death Urge. It causes you to attack yourself, and automatically crit. Well, you crit, so you get 8 extra attacks...which all crit as well. Then you get 64 extra attacks...and so on. And atomize yourself. :smalleek:


You know, you could get even more attacks if you used 2 light double crossbows. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) Takes a few more feats in form of Exotic WP, but still. Doubles your attacks again.

[HCL]

I have no idea what this thread is about so I am going to talk about feats that can get you early entry into a caster prestige class

1: Precocious Apprentice (Complete Arcane or Complete Mage, I forget). Gives you a second level slot which can be your ticket to entering things like Mystic Theurge and Anima Mage
2: Versatile Spellcaster (RotDragon). On its own, all this does is allow a spellcaster to fuse low level spell slots to gain spell slots of higher level spells they know. So you need to combine this with either precocioius apprentice above or Heighten Spell.
3: Improved Sigil Krau (RoDestiny). At second level, this Illumian racial feat lets you heighten 2 spells you know by one level for free. You can repick the heightened spells each time you level up.
4: Primitive Casting (Races of Faerun or Frostburn). Allows you to add material (herbs), somatic (waving your hands around), or verbal (primitive grunting noises) to a spell that does not already have them. If you do, for each one you add you increase the effective spell level and effective caster by 1.

[IthilanorStPete]

@Primitive casting: The Frostburn version only raises caster level, while the RoF version only raises SL.

[Olo Demonsbane]

@Versatile Spellcaster: Also for use with Beguiler, Warmage, and Dread Necro.

[Doc Roc]

This thread is about a world where there is no ToS ban list, and those who live in it know this. Basically, a world where the laws of D&D are not meta-knowledge or even really abstractions. It's a terrifying place.

[deuxhero]

Uh, we are fans of the same comic right?

[Signmaker]

OOTS operates more on RAI than RAW, in terms of flexibility. Jakeverse would be RAW-exploitation taken to its natural conclusion, which is different from the Tippyverse (which takes the concept of magic with DnD rules to its natural conclusion).

[Doc Roc]

In fact, OotS uses the rules mostly for humor. No one's building endless labyrinth cities with a lyre of building, for example, or using ring-gates and springs to generate infinite torque.

In fact, I don't think anyone's done so much as cast a cloud spell in the entire comic. The Jakeverse looks nothing like OotS, in all honesty.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

In fact, I don't think anyone's done so much as cast a cloud spell in the entire comic.

It might have been Obscuring Mist. Or Fog Cloud. Or Solid Fog.

[Olo Demonsbane]

In fact, I don't think anyone's done so much as cast a cloud spell in the entire comic. The Jakeverse looks nothing like OotS, in all honesty.

Celia did in the scene where the bandits were attacking Old Pete's house.

[Amphetryon]

Fimbulwinter, for when the Locate City bomb just isn't big enough....

[9mm]

This thread is about a world where there is no ToS ban list


a world where there is no ToS ban list


no ToS ban list
*runs screaming*
also SUPR?

[Adumbration]

"...the cube. it's coming..."

[sofawall]

"...the cube. it's coming..."

:smallbiggrin:

[Signmaker]

:smallbiggrin:

When are you coming out with Box 2.0 for us to try and crack open?

[Milskidasith]

When are you coming out with Box 2.0 for us to try and crack open?

Can box 2.0 stop Love's Pain?

Love's Pain: Ignoring LoE is broken. Ignoring LoE by mindraping yourself into believing what you want to kill is your dearest loved one who recently broke up with you and now you want to kill them is hilarious!

[Olo Demonsbane]

Can box 2.0 stop Love's Pain?

Love's Pain: Ignoring LoE is broken. Ignoring LoE by mindraping yourself into believing what you want to kill is your dearest loved one who recently broke up with you and now you want to kill them is hilarious!

Well, no one really knows what the creature on the inside of the cube looks like... That'd make it slightly difficult.

[Signmaker]

Can box 2.0 stop Love's Pain?

Love's Pain: Ignoring LoE is broken. Ignoring LoE by mindraping yourself into believing what you want to kill is your dearest loved one who recently broke up with you and now you want to kill them is hilarious!

The Box, as by Sofa, has a 'Soft Gooey Center', with an HP value that you have to hit.

And as far as I know, no. ETF doesn't stop Love's Pain, but this all assumes that you've managed to see/divine the SGC.

[sofawall]

The Box, as by Sofa, has a 'Soft Gooey Center', with an HP value that you have to hit.

And as far as I know, no. ETF doesn't stop Love's Pain, but this all assumes that you've managed to see/divine the SGC.

Also, the SGC in the Cube is a bit tougher. The Cube-SGC is to the Box-SGC as the Cube is to the Box. Both harder to break, and is using offensive actions at the same time.

Also, whenever I get a couple hours uninterrupted on my computer, I'll try and work up a version 1.5. I don't even understand all the tricks Schrodinger's Box is using right now.

[Doc Roc]

Up to 7, now. Soon I'll start articulating the shape of the actual world this produces.

Expect a Mageocalypse.

[Olo Demonsbane]

NOW I understand Jacob's Ladder...I was very confused by the quick explanation I got on meebo. Good to have that cleared up. :smallsmile:

[Doc Roc]

Technically, with the acorn, you get fourth level spells, but the damn acorn is a huge hassle to do. Except that I think you can probably use acorn of far travels to satisfy the conditions for acorn of far travels.


Owwww.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Actually, Versatile Spellcaster doesn't violate intent when they use it to cast higher-level spells than they actually have. CustServ has said the point was for Sorcerers to be able to use it for metamagic higher than they could normally cast. Using it to qualify is more of an 'unintended consequence' than a violating of RaI.

[Deth Muncher]

Technically, with the acorn, you get fourth level spells, but the damn acorn is a huge hassle to do. Except that I think you can probably use acorn of far travels to satisfy the conditions for acorn of far travels.


Owwww.

Yo dawg, I herd u liek qualifying for things?

-shudder-

[Draz74]

Tainted Scholar, simply put, is one of the single strongest PrCs in the game.

List of PrCs that can compete with it:

Illithid Savant
Beholder Mage
???

[Pharaoh's Fist]

The Unholy Trinity?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

The Unholy Trinity?I considered it, but quite frankly, Dweomerkeeper, Incantrix, and Planar Shepherd all have a limited number of nigh-unstoppable abilities. Beholder Mage, Tainted Scholar, and Illithid Savant have an almost unlimited number of nigh-unstoppable abilities. Not the same scale.

[Draz74]

I considered it, but quite frankly, Dweomerkeeper, Incantrix, and Planar Shepherd all have a limited number of nigh-unstoppable abilities. Beholder Mage, Tainted Scholar, and Illithid Savant have an almost unlimited number of nigh-unstoppable abilities. Not the same scale.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Incantatrix/Dweomerkeeper/Planar Shepherd/Shadowcraft Mage are ridiculous, but relatively tame by comparison.

[Doc Roc]

I would consider dweomerkeeper on the same level, if only because it rapidly decays into an infinite resource situation from any number of directions.

So:

Beholder Mage
Illithid Savant
Dweomerkeeper
Tainted Scholar

In no order.
Planar shepherd's big abilities are all contingent on the cosmology of your world, and can be replicated with a couple spells and dweomerkeeper.
Incantatrix is very very strong, and certainly ban-worthy. But in many-many cases, with ocular spell abuse, tainted scholar is going to perform similarly for metamagic as long as you aren't deadly intent on HUGE STAXXXXXX.

[Draz74]

It's kind of scary how Planar Shepherd is only, like, the eighth most powerful PrC. :smallamused:

[Doc Roc]

I agree completely. I don't normally toot my own horn, but I think that people really should use the 3.x.1 banlist if they're running all books open.

[Radar]

A noob question about the Jacob's Ladder trick: it does allow entry to arcane-only PrCs and quite early too, so it's really neat and can lead to some weird builds.
The question is, what can be actually done with the slot itself? As far as I can tell, you can't fire divine spells from it without some additional effort (I'm sure, there is a feat for it somewhere) and you can't learn arcane spells as a Favored Soul. Unless poor wording about Favored Soul's spells known allows additional abuse.

Another question: browsing through sorcerer variants, I stumbled upon Focus Caster (Dragon 348). It automatically gives proficiency with a weapon or shield that doubles as your focus. For Necromancy focus it can be any harvest-related weapon and if one focuses on Evocation, it can be any bladed weapon, which is quite a large category. Would it fulfil entry requirements for some PrCs (substituting for Martial or Exotic Weapon Proficiency)?
Since the focus can be changed at low cost, it's almost a floating Proficiency feat. Might be neat for some gish builds.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

@Versatile Spellcaster: Also for use with Beguiler, Warmage, and Dread Necro.

Nah, the trick there is Rainbow Servant

Also, Takahashi deserves an honorable mention for being a CW Samurai and being effective through Skill Cheese. The new and improved version, when he Takes 10 on Intimidate, has a DC 48 HD check + save vs fear mods check to avoid Cowering, for every opponent within 30' of him. As a Move action.

Granted, it isn't quite as bad as the Bolt Spammer, or Killer Gnome builds, but hey... it makes CW Samurai actually *useful*. That's a pretty nice accomplishment.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Nah, the trick there is Rainbow Servant

Also, Takahashi deserves an honorable mention for being a CW Samurai and being effective through Skill Cheese. The new and improved version, when he Takes 10 on Intimidate, has a DC 48 HD check + save vs fear mods check to avoid Cowering, for every opponent within 30' of him. As a Move action.

Granted, it isn't quite as bad as the Bolt Spammer, or Killer Gnome builds, but hey... it makes CW Samurai actually *useful*. That's a pretty nice accomplishment.

I have a quite similar fighter build using Zhenatarim Fighter...he could only do it on one person at a time, but he could A) Demoralize as a swift action or B) Demoralize on a mass area as an immediate action via Instantaneous Rage+Intimidating Rage+Skill Trick. Plus, he was a generally useful Fighter (~300 DPR).

Still, I did it with a Fighter 10/Barbarian 1/Half Orc Paragon 1/Exemplar 1. You did it with a straight samurai...not half bad.

[Doc Roc]

A noob question about the Jacob's Ladder trick: it does allow entry to arcane-only PrCs and quite early too, so it's really neat and can lead to some weird builds.
The question is, what can be actually done with the slot itself? As far as I can tell, you can't fire divine spells from it without some additional effort (I'm sure, there is a feat for it somewhere) and you can't learn arcane spells as a Favored Soul. Unless poor wording about Favored Soul's spells known allows additional abuse.


There is an additional trick, in the form of drakehelms, or runestaves for arcane spells that are already on your spell list as divine spells. So the gig there, basically, is that you can pretty elegantly actually make yourself an arcane caster, meaning that those weird builds progress elegantly.

You can also do the Jacob's ladder with say... a duskblade, to get into swiftblade early or similar. If you do this, I strongly recommend a drakehelm of haste from the trapsmith list.

[The Mentalist]

Where would one find Drake Helms?

[Doc Roc]

Listed in their little write-up.

Explorer's Handbook.

[T.G. Oskar]

Adding to Doc Roc's response:


A noob question about the Jacob's Ladder trick: it does allow entry to arcane-only PrCs and quite early too, so it's really neat and can lead to some weird builds.
The question is, what can be actually done with the slot itself? As far as I can tell, you can't fire divine spells from it without some additional effort (I'm sure, there is a feat for it somewhere) and you can't learn arcane spells as a Favored Soul. Unless poor wording about Favored Soul's spells known allows additional abuse.

You may also do something equally as interesting. Since you pretty much have the slot ready at any moment, you can get Extra Slot. And...use it to gain a legitimate 2nd level Arcane spell slot. Then, you can use Versatile Spellcasting to transform two arcane spell slots into a 3rd level arcane spell slot. So, in theory, you should have slot instances for 1st-3th level spells for the caster.

Can't be sure of that, given that I'm not particularly familiar with the wider repercussions of Jacob's Ladder. However, it can work well if you can cast Embrace the Dark Chaos (and Shun the Dark Chaos, as well) and/or Psychic Reformation. That way, you can get Extra Slot for your Favored Soul spells, but when you get the arcane spell slot, you can transform it semi-permanently into another arcane spell slot.

That's...another use of it, I reckon.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I have a quite similar fighter build using Zhenatarim Fighter...he could only do it on one person at a time, but he could A) Demoralize as a swift action or B) Demoralize on a mass area as an immediate action via Instantaneous Rage+Intimidating Rage+Skill Trick. Plus, he was a generally useful Fighter (~300 DPR).

Still, I did it with a Fighter 10/Barbarian 1/Half Orc Paragon 1/Exemplar 1. You did it with a straight samurai...not half bad.


If I'd had one more level, Takahashi would have been completely gear-independent too... at level 14, CW Samurai get to use their Mass Staredown as a move action, which is what the armor was needed for.

The new and improved Takahashi has a level of Exemplar, Ronin, and Rogue. Also has Assassin's Stance for 4d6 SA to help cut down on the time needed to cut down his now cowering opponents.

But yes, even the straight CW Samurai build was... effective enough.

[Doc Roc]

small update.

[Doc Roc]

Updates! Got some really neat ones.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Nice! I'd figured out the inspire greatness one myself, but the others...wow. Especially Restoration. :smalleek:

[Thelas]

Wait, can you just spam NI castings of Restoration for NI levels, or is there some other trick?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Wait, can you just spam NI castings of Restoration for NI levels, or is there some other trick?Get a level drained. Cast restoration. It gives you a level. At, say, 17 HD, you can get 16 levels drained, then restore them, for a complete rebuild of your Char. If you want something cheesier, as, say, a Wizard 3/MS 2/Incantatrix 8/IotSFV 7, you can get 2 levels drained, and be a Wiz 1/MS 2/Incantatrix 10/IotSFV 7. Your Incantatrix levels qualify you for Incantatrix. :smallbiggrin:

[Claudius Maximus]

I think what Thelas is asking is whether Restoration's wording allows you to gain levels every time it's cast on you, with no limit, provided you have had a level drained in the past.

[Doc Roc]

I personally don't think it does. But I have been wrong.

[imperialspectre]

It doesn't, because the Restoration text indicates that you get restored to your "previous level" (i.e., prior to the level drain). That means that you can't gain levels from Restoration.

It doesn't really matter, as the ability to essentially retrain your entire build and qualify for everything much sooner is quite enough for almost all purposes.

[Doc Roc]

Resurrection complete! Resuming maintenance!

This state-sanctioned act of white necromancy brought to you with the explicit permission of Roland St. Jude Esq.

[jseah]

I have an idea! The time regression section could be written in mirror image!

.dnalrorrim ni ecilA ekiL

Or... never mind, that was a stupid suggestion.
I assume it is going to be one of the many ways to time travel backwards? Like the Temporal Regression/Time Hop save game trick?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Let's not forget Save Crystals which combo Time Regression with your Psicrystal to pop yourself back to yesterday if something bad happens... or something like that, anyways...

[Eldariel]

Let's not forget Save Crystals which combo Time Regression with your Psicrystal to pop yourself back to yesterday if something bad happens... or something like that, anyways...

Time Hop, Forced Dream, few Contingency-type effects for it to determine if loading is needed and yeah. It's done in the beginning of the day and the check-up is done at the end of the day.

[Gauntlet]

Alter selfing into a human grants you a bonus feat. I'm quite certain that something interesting can be done with that. Incidentally, looking at Alter Self again, there is much cheese in this one. When you cast Alter Self, you 'lose all extraordinary special attacks and qualities from your normal form that are not derived from class levels'. If you are already shapechanged- for example, Alter Selfed into a human- your new extraordinary special qualities are not lost as such, by Alter Self. According to the 'one effect trumps another' section of the Magic chunk of the PHB, previous castings stay in effect but 'become irrelevant'. How is this handled in RAW? Do they not work? Anyway.
Alter Self into a human. Gain a bonus feat. Alter Self into another human, 'on top' of the previous one. Gain another bonus feat. Can you use your first one as a prerequisite, and do you lose it when you change form again? :smallconfused:

I'm just running by the PHB text here, and it's probably been errataed into the floor, but it still interests me. :smallamused:

[nedz]

Doesn't Alter Selfing out of human lose you the Human bonus feat ?

[Gauntlet]

Doesn't say that anywhere in the Alter Self description- you don't dismiss the effects, and unless it was 'your normal form' you don't lose any abilities as far as I can tell.

[Doc Roc]

Significant number of piping hot updates!

[nedz]

Doesn't say that anywhere in the Alter Self description- you don't dismiss the effects, and unless it was 'your normal form' you don't lose any abilities as far as I can tell.

They don't stack
PH p172 "One Effect Makes the Other Irrelevant"

[Gauntlet]

Indeed, nedz. From that page in the book, it would appear that subsequent polymorph castings remain in effect for their full duration, but any statistics which are changed by transforming into a new form are updated. For example, you keep the Shapechange ability mentioned, but gain the effects of the Polymorph effects as well. If you can change back out, great- because the Shapechange effect is still running and polymorph does not affect your mental faculties. In the same vein exactly, Alter Selfing yourself does not cause you to lose any extraordinary effects granted by your current form (only your normal form), but it does cause you to gain the natural size and modes of transport of your new form. Since physical movement types and size are exclusive (you can't have two sizes after all) you lose the old size, even if your old shape was not your 'normal' one (which would have been lost according to the previous paragraph). Bonus feats are not exclusive (gaining one does not force you to drop all others like gaining a new size does) so as far as I can tell you don't lose them unless they are included in the 'extraordinary special attacks and qualities' paragraph and you were in your 'normal form' previously. Even if they are Ex special attacks or qualities (which feats aren't listed as in any of the creature entries in the MM or any other stat block) the restriction to 'normal form' means that repeatedly Alter Selfing to gain many bonus feats does not appear to be prohibited by RAW.

NB. I'm probably missing something in the errata or Rules Compendium anyway here, but hey :smallamused:

[nedz]

I think you need to read p83 of the FAQ, which I (apparently) cannot post here for copyright reasons.
It is quite easy to find online however.

[Gauntlet]

Ah, yes. I believe you mean page 87. So you do get a bonus feat for Alter Selfing into a human, but you can only do so once and you lose it again when you change into anything else. Curses, foiled again!

Could be useful for getting item creation feats when you need them, though- if you Persisted it.

[jseah]

Elemental Weirds And You
Elemental weirds get powerful divinations, sorcerer casting and... wait. Back up. Those divinations appear to be at free action speed. That's right, weirds can make an infinite number of divinations per turn. Oops.
Oops, indeed. XD Absolutely hilarious way of putting it.

Might want to add in a note about answering every single question in the entire universe.
Might also want to include various tricks to getting divinations to double check answers you aren't supposed to be able to and getting information on things you can't technically divine about.

[nedz]

Ah, yes. I believe you mean page 87. So you do get a bonus feat for Alter Selfing into a human, but you can only do so once and you lose it again when you change into anything else. Curses, foiled again!

Could be useful for getting item creation feats when you need them, though- if you Persisted it.

It could be used as a wider form of Heroics (SpC) in that you can acquire any feat. Metamagics would seem to be a useful choice, for the occasion when you need a Transdimension spell, or Energy Substitution(Acid), etc.

Or a Reserve feat, should you be about to run out of spells.

Actually the one that I'm still unsure about is whether a Human who casts Alter Self loses their Human bonus feat ?

[Doc Roc]

Oops, indeed. XD Absolutely hilarious way of putting it.

Might want to add in a note about answering every single question in the entire universe.
Might also want to include various tricks to getting divinations to double check answers you aren't supposed to be able to and getting information on things you can't technically divine about.

As one of my comp-sci professors used to say:

"Implementation left to student."

[Doc Roc]

Any update requests?
Sandwich trick added, since it is no longer easy to find on the web.

[true_shinken]

Bolt Spammer does not work as written. Disciple of Dispater is for metal-only weapon.

[term1nally s1ck]

Aptitude bypasses that.

[TheLaughingLich]

Aptitude bypasses that.

Sadly, it doesn't. Aptitude specifies that you can apply the benefits of feats that normally apply to a specific type of weapon, and Disciple of Dispater's ability is unambiguously a class feature.

[term1nally s1ck]

Hm *checks*

Huh.

Well, you can have Cold Iron bolts, so I guess it still works anyway.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Yeah...I've actually made an entirely metal crossbow IRL...it shouldn't be too difficult with powerful magic and skilled smiths...plus, yeah, cold iron bolts.

[Doc Roc]

Sadly, it doesn't. Aptitude specifies that you can apply the benefits of feats that normally apply to a specific type of weapon, and Disciple of Dispater's ability is unambiguously a class feature.

Yeah, the thing is that we used cold-iron bolts. Fully metallic crossbows are, sadly, well within the scope of my chicanery as well. Unrelated: I adore your avatar.

[grimbold]

Don't Panic!

that made my day

[nedz]

Grimbold: you are a necromancer:smallfrown:

[Claudius Maximus]

grimbold what have you done?

what have you done

[inuyasha]

KEEN VORPAL RAPIER crits on a 12-20 and that is how one of my players 1 hit killed a full hp titan :smallsigh:

[Dusk Eclipse]

First a Keen Rapier only crits on 15-20 (it doesn't stacks with Improved Critical BTW)
Second: Vorpal only triggers on a Natural 20, not on every crit hit (unless you are using the 3.0 version)

third: http://www.novarata.net/Thread_Necromancy.jpg

[Draz74]

First a Keen Rapier only crits on 15-20 (it doesn't stacks with Improved Critical BTW)
Second: Vorpal only triggers on a Natural 20, not on every crit hit (unless you are using the 3.0 version)

third:

To be fair, the thread title does indicate 3.x rather than 3.5, which could explain both the crit-range-stacking and the Vorpal.

No argument with you on the thread necromancy, though. :smalltongue: