Thames
2010-01-06, 08:50 AM
Ahoy, the purpose of this thread is to address the perceived issues of the skill list in overlaps and size in one place. I hope to get the differing views so that decision is more considered than if it were done alone for anyone who wishes to use it.
I have seen in the forums numerous threads on reducing the amounts of skills by combining them; some changes ratified by 4ed and saga ed star wars, as well as other systems. The three foremost changes are:
Open Lock + Disable Device := Disable Device (or Mechanics)
Listen + Spot = Perception 1
Move Silently + Hide = Stealth 1
Now on the surface these all seem reasonable with the first even stated to have been kept due to legacy and not any mechanical reasons, but three reasonable counter-arguments have been made against them.
1. If Move Silently and Hide are merged, what benefit does invisibility give?
2. Making the skill list smaller gimps the rogue as other classes can pick up on the skills easier.
3. The skills points per level would have to be reduced to take in to account the reduced skill list size (not so much a counter argument as a point but a good one nonetheless)
4. Skill tricks have greater accessibility (I know little of skills tricks ty Latronis)
Possible answers to questions 1 and 3 are:
1. Just give the benefits of a listen check only if they are invisible
3. Well that's obvious
For counter-argument 2 I fail to see the point personally and wish to be enlightened
Other rebirthed skills that I have seen on these boards and others:
Athletics: Climb + Swim + Jump
Survival 1: Survival + Use Rope
Survival 2: Survival + Heal
Know Nature: Know Nature + Heal
Perception 2: Spot + Listen + Search
Stealth 2: Hide + Move Silently + Sleight of Hand
Acrobatics 1: Tumble + Balance + Escape Artist
Acrobatics 2: Tumble + Balance
Animal Handling: Animal Handling + Ride
Deception 1: Disguise + Bluff
Deception 2: Disguise + Bluff + Sleight of Hand
Deception 3: Disguise + Bluff + Sleight of Hand + Forgery
Persuasion: Intimidation + Diplomacy
Socialise: Diplomacy + Gather Infomation
Negotiation: Diplomacy + Sense Motive
Linguistics: Forgery + Decipher Script
Streetwise: Gather Information + Intimidate
Thievery: Disable Device + Escape Artist + Open Lock + Sleight of hand
Infiltration: Forgery + Disguise
Bluff: Bluff + Intimidate
Well that is kind of a Monsterous List so I apologise
I would also say something of the number of skills a rogue gets with their expected skill must-haves and my opinions on the skill merges but I'll leave it to another post in this thread cause I'm tired and to keep things neat.
Please state which you think is best and why, which is bad and why and don't hesitate to add any I've missed. Thank-you.
I have seen in the forums numerous threads on reducing the amounts of skills by combining them; some changes ratified by 4ed and saga ed star wars, as well as other systems. The three foremost changes are:
Open Lock + Disable Device := Disable Device (or Mechanics)
Listen + Spot = Perception 1
Move Silently + Hide = Stealth 1
Now on the surface these all seem reasonable with the first even stated to have been kept due to legacy and not any mechanical reasons, but three reasonable counter-arguments have been made against them.
1. If Move Silently and Hide are merged, what benefit does invisibility give?
2. Making the skill list smaller gimps the rogue as other classes can pick up on the skills easier.
3. The skills points per level would have to be reduced to take in to account the reduced skill list size (not so much a counter argument as a point but a good one nonetheless)
4. Skill tricks have greater accessibility (I know little of skills tricks ty Latronis)
Possible answers to questions 1 and 3 are:
1. Just give the benefits of a listen check only if they are invisible
3. Well that's obvious
For counter-argument 2 I fail to see the point personally and wish to be enlightened
Other rebirthed skills that I have seen on these boards and others:
Athletics: Climb + Swim + Jump
Survival 1: Survival + Use Rope
Survival 2: Survival + Heal
Know Nature: Know Nature + Heal
Perception 2: Spot + Listen + Search
Stealth 2: Hide + Move Silently + Sleight of Hand
Acrobatics 1: Tumble + Balance + Escape Artist
Acrobatics 2: Tumble + Balance
Animal Handling: Animal Handling + Ride
Deception 1: Disguise + Bluff
Deception 2: Disguise + Bluff + Sleight of Hand
Deception 3: Disguise + Bluff + Sleight of Hand + Forgery
Persuasion: Intimidation + Diplomacy
Socialise: Diplomacy + Gather Infomation
Negotiation: Diplomacy + Sense Motive
Linguistics: Forgery + Decipher Script
Streetwise: Gather Information + Intimidate
Thievery: Disable Device + Escape Artist + Open Lock + Sleight of hand
Infiltration: Forgery + Disguise
Bluff: Bluff + Intimidate
Well that is kind of a Monsterous List so I apologise
I would also say something of the number of skills a rogue gets with their expected skill must-haves and my opinions on the skill merges but I'll leave it to another post in this thread cause I'm tired and to keep things neat.
Please state which you think is best and why, which is bad and why and don't hesitate to add any I've missed. Thank-you.