Undead

[Temotei]

What are your favorite undead templates/races, other than necropolitan?

I already know about necropolitan and many other templates. I'm just indecisive. :smalltongue: I just know a bunch of you would say necropolitan and leave it at that if I didn't say that, so I'm saying it. :smallsmile:

I'm also wondering about undead feats. As in, feats for the undead.

[Yzzyx]

What are your favorite undead templates/races, other than necropolitan?

I already know about necropolitan and many other templates. I'm just indecisive. :smalltongue: I just know a bunch of you would say necropolitan and leave it at that if I didn't say that, so I'm saying it. :smallsmile:

I'm also wondering about undead feats. As in, feats for the undead.

I'm partial to necropolitans. :smalltongue:

Other than that... hmm... liches and ghosts are cool, certainly, though not very good as PCs, and gravetouched ghouls are slightly more optimal. As for feats, the only particularly nice ones only for undead that come to mind are lifebond and lifesense.

[Runestar]

None of them. Between their crappy racial HD and/or crippling high LA, undead races tend to make poor PCs.

Maybe gravetouched ghoul (lowest LA I can find).

[JaronK]

Necropolitan! Okay seriously though, Bone Creature is great. +1LA with some stat bumps. But if you're going to go undead, at least do so in a Desecrated area with an Alter for the extra hitpoints, and try to get a Dread Necromancer with Corpse Crafter to do it.

JaronK

[Boci]

Vampire, with a feat that causes anyone within them 3öft of me to make a fortitude save or be dazzled when I stand in direct sunlight and a skill trick (I'll show you cheese, mental, requires 8 ranks in knowledge: pathetic chat up lines) that allows me to make cheesy banter with a girl causing targets within hearing range to be automatically nauseated for one round.

No seriously, half-vampire. I like the vampire, but the LA is too crippling.


But if you're going to go undead, at least do so in a Desecrated area with an Alter for the extra hitpoints, and try to get a Dread Necromancer with Corpse Crafter to do it.

JaronK

Shame you cannot claim to have been created plague of undead for maximum hitpoints. I mentioned this on another thread: can't you go elf/ some template to make you undead and take Faerie Mysteries Initiate for int mod to hitpoints instead of con? Requires you to assume - and 0 are the same.

[Temotei]

Since the whole group is playing as undead, we're waiving the HD from being undead. Anyone with higher LA than other characters will get LA. The lowest LA character will get 0, no matter what. Then it goes on from there.

Also, I commend you on your making fun of Twilight vampire build.

What book is bone creature in?

[RandomLunatic]

Book of Vile Darkness, if I am not mistaken.

[Yzzyx]

Since the whole group is playing as undead, we're waiving the HD from being undead. Anyone with higher LA than other characters will get LA. The lowest LA character will get 0, no matter what. Then it goes on from there.

Also, I commend you on your making fun of Twilight vampire build.

What book is bone creature in?

Book of Vile Darkness, if I remember correctly, but that's 3.0, and thus unowned by me.

Edit: Gah! How fast must I type?!? How fast must I type?!?

[Corbeau]

Spellstitched template from I believe complete arcane. It may not be ideal for PCs but it can be pretty destructive on a couple of mobs, even lower forms like karrnathi zombies and skeletons from the ECS. Otherwise, Awaken Undead from SpC on a simple skeleton plus class levels is decent.

[Temotei]

Vampire, with a feat that causes anyone within them 3öft of me to make a fortitude save or be dazzled when I stand in direct sunlight and a skill trick (I'll show you cheese, mental, requires 8 ranks in knowledge: pathetic chat up lines) that allows me to make cheesy banter with a girl causing targets within hearing range to be automatically nauseated for one round.

No seriously, half-vampire. I like the vampire, but the LA is too crippling.



Shame you cannot claim to have been created plague of undead for maximum hitpoints. I mentioned this on another thread: can't you go elf/ some template to make you undead and take Faerie Mysteries Initiate for int mod to hitpoints instead of con? Requires you to assume - and 0 are the same.

That's an iffy interpretation. :smallamused:

What book is that one in?

Thanks for the suggestions guys/gals. This is helping. :smallsmile:

[Boci]

That's an iffy interpretation. :smallamused:

What book is that one in?

DR319 p58. According to crystalkeep it allows you to "use your Intelligence modifier instead of your Constitution modifier to determine your hit-points."

http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Feats.pdf page 159

[Dimers]

I'm quite satisfied with Magic of Faerun's "still yourself, just undead" crypt spawn. A little HD-based natural armor, +2 turn resistance, no Con score, +4 racial to Intimidate ... that's all. No LA listed, CR+1. It's usually the result of a 7th-level cleric spell -- target becomes a crypt spawn the evening after dying -- though sometimes they can occur naturally, too. One of the reasons I like them is that they can 'pass' in normal society, since they don't have weird weaknesses and they look just like they did in life, maybe a little paler. Another reason is that they're not set up to be any one class or type -- I'm not 'wasting' stat bonuses if I want to be a skillmonkey or warrior, so I feel more free to figure out what I want from the character and to fill party roles.

Magic of Faerun has quite a few spells useful for undead. I don't have the Spell Compendium, so I don't know how many made it in there.

I'll second Corbeau's endorsement of spellstitching. +0 LA, for whatever crazy reason, and it can give you numerous conjuration, evocation or necromancy SLAs, DR, more turn resistance, and +2 profane to all saves. Unfortunately, it also gives minor SR: 10 plus Charisma modifier, not scaling. But if your campaign is high enough level, that won't change anything at all.

[Temotei]

DR319 p58. According to crystalkeep it allows you to "use your Intelligence modifier instead of your Constitution modifier to determine your hit-points."

http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Feats.pdf page 159

That's a stupid feat then. It lets you take other options as well. :smallannoyed:
Wizards are now better than ever, as long as they take another fifteen minutes to prepare the feat.

I think I'll do something else, and avoid this feat. :smalltongue:

Yeah...we're starting at level 12. SR of 10 - 15 probably won't do much. Also:
A creature’s spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities.

So I'm going to have hardly any trouble being affected by my allies, while my own spells will work all the time on myself. LA +0, with amazing abilities. Hm. :smalltongue:

A little overpowered, maybe...but I actually have the book, and I want it! :smallbiggrin:

[Boci]

That's a stupid feat then. It lets you take other options as well. :smallannoyed:
Wizards are now better than ever, as long as they take another fifteen minutes to prepare the feat.

I wouldn't use it often, but for an melee undead character who thus gains little/nothing from the raised hit die I would consider it.

[Temotei]

I wouldn't use it often, but for an melee undead character who thus gains little/nothing from the raised hit die I would consider it.

True. It's something to consider, and the elf Constitution penalty is nothing when you're undead. :smallamused:

I'm thinking. :thog:

[Vizzerdrix]

Spellstitched is nice, no matter what undead you become.

[PhoenixRivers]

My favorite undead are:

Gravetouched Ghoul (good abilities, not too high on the LA side)
and
Ghost (+5 LA is rather high, but being a silent, ethereal creature with bonuses, inherent armor based on a stat, inherent saves based on a stat? They scream Cha based paladin of XXX)

In either case, for gestalt, I also like Evolved Undead, though in such games, it's a bit unethical.

An Evolved Undead Gravetouched Ghoul with 10 levels of War Hulk essentially has +40 strength in 10 levels from EU and War Hulk.

However, in such games, the real strength comes from Evolved Undead and Gravetouched Ghoul, applied to a Nymph.

[Glimbur]

Dry Lich is nice, if you get it via 10 levels in Walker in the Waste.

[Thurbane]

As suggested, 1/2 Vampire. If that's not undead enough, take the chain of feats in LM that give you undead-like abilities (Tomb Tainted Soul, Tomb-born Fortitude, Tomb-born Vitality, Tomb-born Resilience).

If you want to emulate Undead immunity to mind effects, Take Willing Deformity and Deformity (Madness).

[Temotei]

I think I'll go against some suggestions and play a (probably) unique combination. How about this: Spellstitched bone creature raptoran factotum?

If you can find a class that's Wisdom-based without being a casting class, and not monk, let me know.

[Optimystik]

If you can find a class that's Wisdom-based without being a casting class, and not monk, let me know.

Swordsage, Ninja

[Temotei]

Swordsage, Ninja

Hmm...well, since another player is playing a swordsage (I think), I might think of the ninja. I've heard they're underpowered, but it might be fun. :smallsmile:

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Draconomicon gave us Dragon-specific Zombie and Skeleton templates. A Rage Drake makes for one SCARY zombie. Great pet for a DN.

[Temotei]

Draconomicon gave us Dragon-specific Zombie and Skeleton templates. A Rage Drake makes for one SCARY zombie. Great pet for a DN.

DN? I do not know yo' fancy pants terms!

[Sstoopidtallkid]

DN? I do not know yo' fancy pants terms!Dread Necromancer. A Rage Drake is out of MMIII, and has some awesome damage-boosting abilities, plus pounce. The Draconomicon rules make undead dragons a threat instead of a joke, keeping most of the benefits of being dragons in the first place.

[Temotei]

Dread Necromancer. A Rage Drake is out of MMIII, and has some awesome damage-boosting abilities, plus pounce. The Draconomicon rules make undead dragons a threat instead of a joke, keeping most of the benefits of being dragons in the first place.

Ah. I see. While a dragon-riding undead guy sounds really cool, I think I'm going to go without a casting class (except for things like arcane dilettante, which isn't technically casting).

[mabriss lethe]

I am sort of partial to changelings with the vampire progression from LM or the wight template from savage species. you're pretty boned (pun) until you hit the point where you can take Improved energy drain. Then go warshaper. (assuming that your dm allows changeling's minor shapeshift to qualify for warshaper abilities...but that's another argument entirely) Then find ways to break it horribly. The Summon Elemental reserve feat springs to mind, and if you don't mind risking the damage or have the means to get even some minor energy resistance.... A desert wind cloak can net you the same benefit. Gorge yourself on the bag lunch when you have time before combat to give yourself a head start, then become a whirling maelstrom of death.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'll second Corbeau's endorsement of spellstitching. +0 LA, for whatever crazy reason, and it can give you numerous conjuration, evocation or necromancy SLAs, DR, more turn resistance, and +2 profane to all saves. Unfortunately, it also gives minor SR: 10 plus Charisma modifier, not scaling. But if your campaign is high enough level, that won't change anything at all.

Spellstitched is not LA +0, it's LA -- (meaning that it is not suitable for player characters to use).

[Dimers]

Spellstitched is not LA +0, it's LA -- (meaning that it is not suitable for player characters to use).

Well, that certainly explains THAT. So are LA+0 creatures marked as such, or do they just lack a "LA" line in their entries altogether?

[Lysander]

I don't think anyone's said just your basic classic Lich. It kinda goes without saying doesn't it? Well, I'll say it anyway: Lich.

A little boring, high level adjustment, but being able to be a non-multiclassed wizard with a phylactery is pretty damn neat.

[PhoenixRivers]

Well, that certainly explains THAT. So are LA+0 creatures marked as such, or do they just lack a "LA" line in their entries altogether?

LA: +0, are marked as such.