[3.5] Is this worse than a DMNPC?

[Pika...]

Well, long story short Lord Death (aka the Grim Reaper) has gotten so common in my games that he is just following the PCs for fun at this point. How I run him is that whenever a PC is unconscious or at 0hp (aka staggered) they can see him, and he will often talk to them (usually to get a few laughs from the group by mocking the PC/player). Also, adepts and other divine magic users can see him due to the power fo their deities (though he can prevent that if he wants). The thing is he has sort of become a common part of the game or something.


Here is the issue: I am afraid he is/has become(ing) my manifestation in the game. He does not lead the players or fight for them, though he will occasionally give some helpful tidbit or "punish" a player for not being respectful. Anyway, like I said I am afraid he is sort of becoming my manifestation or something similar. Unlike my other NPCs I feel more "in-game" with him, and I feel more comfortable and connected to/with him I guess. It is hard to explain.

Perhaps this is due to this NPC being there since almost day 1 about two years ago when I first started DMing this homebrewed cosmology, and which (along with the cosmology) plan to DM for as long as I DM?



ps. I have been pointed out by multiple people, including one of the players (the timelord who is an extremely big fan of the series) that my interpretation of Death turned out extremely uncannily similar to the Discworld one. Is this a worrying sign of my mental state/? O.o

[Vizzerdrix]

So long as it isn't doing the work for or bothering the players, all is well and fine.

[Zincorium]

I wouldn't worry about becoming more like Terry Pratchett- it'll make things more interesting.

Personal attachment is a possible issue, keep some perspective about it and introduce some new elements, that aren't based on yourself, to keep him interesting.

Actually, here's an idea. If your players are used to having death around, it'd be an interesting plot point to have him just not show up for a session. Enemies are down and incapacitated, but don't seem to actually expire even when chopped to bits. Why Death isn't doing his duties is now a mystery for the players to solve.

[Tequila Sunrise]

Here is the issue: I am afraid he is/has become(ing) my manifestation in the game. He does not lead the players or fight for them, though he will occasionally give some helpful tidbit or "punish" a player for not being respectful. Anyway, like I said I am afraid he is sort of becoming my manifestation or something similar. Unlike my other NPCs I feel more "in-game" with him, and I feel more comfortable and connected to/with him I guess. It is hard to explain.
1. How does Death "punish" a player for not being respectful?
2. Have you been reading those hysterical DMPC threads?
3. Is your yellow Pika pregnant or did s/he just eat too many Scooby snacks?
4. If pregnant, why do they both look worried? Did they have a one night stand?
5. I highly recommend Terry Pratchett, as I'm sure your players have. So much fun!

[Xyk]

I like that idea. I'm gonna take it, 'mkay?

[drengnikrafe]

A few things.

If a DM of mine did that, I would find it awesome and reasonable.
Terry Pratchett is a genius. If you approach his level unconsciously, you may also be a genius. Heck, if you're a gamer, I'd already categorize you as pretty smart.
It's a lot less heavy handed than most DMPCs, so it's definitely not worse.

And one quick quesiton.

Why is Death so interested in them? I see plenty of plot opportunities coming from this. Or, not. What do I know?

[pres_man]

Why is Death so interested in them? I see plenty of plot opportunities coming from this. Or, not. What do I know?

"God has a hard-on for Marines because we kill everything we see! He plays His games, we play ours! To show our appreciation for so much power, we keep heaven packed with fresh souls! "

[Tyndmyr]

ps. I have been pointed out by multiple people, including one of the players (the timelord who is an extremely big fan of the series) that my interpretation of Death turned out extremely uncannily similar to the Discworld one. Is this a worrying sign of my mental state/? O.o

Nothing wrong with the discworld death.

If you feel he might become a problem, or is showing up too often, just take a break with him for a bit. Death has a lot of work to get done, after all, and anyhow, humor can get old if it becomes predictable.

[The Demented One]

As long as it doesn't prevent your PCs from being awesome, mattering in the world, or exercising their own agency, it's fine.

[Pika...]

So long as it isn't doing the work for or bothering the players, all is well and fine.

Well, bothering/annoying in a way intended to produce humor/comedy kinda...



I wouldn't worry about becoming more like Terry Pratchett- it'll make things more interesting.

LoL. One of them gave me a book as an Xmas gift. I have been trying to make time to read it. I will see then I guess.



Personal attachment is a possible issue, keep some perspective about it and introduce some new elements, that aren't based on yourself, to keep him interesting.

Sorry, but what do you mean?



Actually, here's an idea. If your players are used to having death around, it'd be an interesting plot point to have him just not show up for a session. Enemies are down and incapacitated, but don't seem to actually expire even when chopped to bits. Why Death isn't doing his duties is now a mystery for the players to solve.

Hmm. Would be interesting I guess.

Would it be too much if they go on this epic quest through the planes, fight all kinds of horrors and such, just to find out he is in a tropical themed demi-plane somewhere in a Hawaiian shirt and straw hat sipping a margarita on a personal vacation? Or even better/worse, on the Prime Material world they started on in the coast/on an island instead?




1. How does Death "punish" a player for not being respectful?
2. Have you been reading those hysterical DMPC threads?
3. Is your yellow Pika pregnant or did s/he just eat too many Scooby snacks?
4. If pregnant, why do they both look worried? Did they have a one night stand?
5. I highly recommend Terry Pratchett, as I'm sure your players have. So much fun!

LoL.

1. Anything from blasting a disrespectful Prinny through an entire mountain (eventually twice...), to bringing back the opponent the party just killed and ate (a giant seagull using dragon stats minus the breath weapon) as a skeleton due to one PC "smack talking" him.
2. Not really, but did way back in the WotC forums days.
3. LoL. I am glad someone noticed that. I thought it would go without. Take a look in the Friendly Banter area to see why. :smallsmile:
4. LOL again. I actually thought the same thing when I found the image. That, or the process is about to start and they have no clue what to do. I find the assumed father's look priceless.
5. I talk to the player into him about it after every session. I apparently think on the guy's wavelength...





I like that idea. I'm gonna take it, 'mkay?

What idea? O.o




.................................................. ................................................


Gotta sleep.

More ready posts tomorrow.

Thanks so far folks!


ps. Before I go, anyone think I should start bringing my Halloween plastic scythe to all games?

[Cute_Riolu]

ps. Before I go, anyone think I should start bringing my Halloween plastic scythe to all games?

YES. Definitely yes.

[Kallisti]

ps. I have been pointed out by multiple people, including one of the players (the timelord who is an extremely big fan of the series) that my interpretation of Death turned out extremely uncannily similar to the Discworld one. Is this a worrying sign of my mental state/? O.o

Yes, but it's the good kind of crazy. Embrace it, sanity is for the weak anyway.

[MeTheGameGuy]

Would it be too much if they go on this epic quest through the planes, fight all kinds of horrors and such, just to find out he is in a tropical themed demi-plane somewhere in a Hawaiian shirt and straw hat sipping a margarita on a personal vacation? Or even better/worse, on the Prime Material world they started on in the coast/on an island instead?

That would be hilarious. Unless the players decide to kill you afterwards. Make sure they get loads of loot during the quest, and you should be alright. :smallwink:

[olentu]

Would it be too much if they go on this epic quest through the planes, fight all kinds of horrors and such, just to find out he is in a tropical themed demi-plane somewhere in a Hawaiian shirt and straw hat sipping a margarita on a personal vacation? Or even better/worse, on the Prime Material world they started on in the coast/on an island instead?

I would say go with this.

[AshDesert]

On the Death missing idea, I wish I played with people like you guys (apparently) do who would go "Hmm, that's weird, Death is gone, we should go find him" instead of "Hmm, that's weird Death is gone, let's go mess around doing stupid stuff without having to worry because no one's gonna die."
Also, I don't see why those particular Pokemon are so worried, don't they no she's just gonna lay an egg?

[Tyndmyr]

On that thought, the idea of death actually being absent for a bit would be horribly interesting in D&D. What happens when the mobs don't die?

Suddenly, encounters and dungeon dives take on a whole new aspect.

[Solaris]

On the Death missing idea, I wish I played with people like you guys (apparently) do who would go "Hmm, that's weird, Death is gone, we should go find him" instead of "Hmm, that's weird Death is gone, let's go mess around doing stupid stuff without having to worry because no one's gonna die."
Also, I don't see why those particular Pokemon are so worried, don't they no she's just gonna lay an egg?

Well, okay. Eventually I'd go find out what happened to Death - but first I've got a whole lotta bets to win.

I'd be more concerned about the implications of a Raichu impregnating a Pikachu. I'm just sayin'.

[Green Bean]

Also, I don't see why those particular Pokemon are so worried, don't they no she's just gonna lay an egg?

Well, if they know their Discworld, they'd realize that Death isn't the same as death. People still die, but without someone to guide people to the afterlife, the cosmos get...complicated.

[valadil]

Have you asked your players what they think? If they aren't bothered by him, he isn't a problem even if he does qualify as a DMPC.

[Another_Poet]

A good litmus test is to have him disappear for a while. Several sessions at least.

This could be for any reason - he found another party that is more amusing to watch, he decided to conceal himself even from dying characters while he gets over being dumped by his girlfriend, whatever. You don't have to explain, in fact, it may be better if you don't.

After a few sessions, if your players say they miss Death and wonder where he is and why he doesn't show up to mock them while they're dying, then you know you have a winner and you can bring him back at some well-timed moment to suitable aplomb from the players. Possibly wearing a Hawaiian style shirt and claiming he just got back from vacation.

On the other hand if they are happy he's gone or (more likely) no one comments on it at all, you can guess they were annoyed and just didn't want to say anything. In which case leave him out for the long-term except maybe for an occasional cameo.

ap

[Pika...]

Hmm...

Now I have a several options to go through:

Having the whole adventure of them searching for him.
Testing to see if they like him by having him gone for several sessions, then popping in and starting to sob on the PCs shoulders due to his long-term girlfriend dumping him because he had to scythe her after she tripped in the shower getting ready for their next date.
Keep things going as they are assuming things are OK because they have not said anything, and start bringing my scythe to the game sessions.
Talk to the players.








YES. Definitely yes.

:smallbiggrin:



Yes, but it's the good kind of crazy. Embrace it, sanity is for the weak anyway.

I can see logic in that train of thought. :smallamused:



That would be hilarious. Unless the players decide to kill you afterwards. Make sure they get loads of loot during the quest, and you should be alright. :smallwink:

I could just see it now. Tied to a tree, blindfolded, with my last (and first) cigar in my mouth as someone shouts "Load d20s!".



On the Death missing idea, I wish I played with people like you guys (apparently) do who would go "Hmm, that's weird, Death is gone, we should go find him" instead of "Hmm, that's weird Death is gone, let's go mess around doing stupid stuff without having to worry because no one's gonna die."

Actually, I would not put that past some of them either. >_>



On that thought, the idea of death actually being absent for a bit would be horribly interesting in D&D. What happens when the mobs don't die?

Suddenly, encounters and dungeon dives take on a whole new aspect.

LoL.

You just made me think this would possibly be great for something midway through an adventure/campaign. Perhaps even a premade module, or even one of the big ones like Ravenloft, or the Red Hand of Doom.

The PCs and major villains are already aware of each other. They hate each other, there has been conflict and hard feelings, and things have begun to escalate to the "end game". Then at either the boss or midboss battle when one side falls (either the PCs or boss) and after a bit of triumph speak and either moans or cheers from the players the fallen just get up, grab their aching heads, and say "What the Nine Hells?!".




I'd be more concerned about the implications of a Raichu impregnating a Pikachu. I'm just sayin'.

Him getting taken away by the party van due to jailbait?

[jiriku]

Hmm...

Now I have a several options to go through:

Having the whole adventure of them searching for him.
Testing to see if they like him by having him gone for several sessions, then popping in and starting to sob on the PCs shoulders due to his long-term girlfriend dumping him because he had to scythe her after she tripped in the shower getting ready for their next date.
Keep things going as they are assuming things are OK because they have not said anything, and start bringing my scythe to the game sessions.
Talk to the players.



No. Bring your scythe to the game sessions no matter which option you choose.

[Pika...]

No. Bring your scythe to the game sessions no matter which option you choose.

LoL.


There is a store near here which might still have some reaper robes available (their Halloween costumes sign is still up). Should I?

[bosssmiley]

ps. I have been pointed out by multiple people, including one of the players (the timelord who is an extremely big fan of the series) that my interpretation of Death turned out extremely uncannily similar to the Discworld one. Is this a worrying sign of my mental state/? O.o

Could be worse. You could be channeling the Death of the Lankhmar setting. He tends to develop personal grudges against the heroes... :smallwink:

[Anonymouswizard]

Also, I don't see why those particular Pokemon are so worried, don't they no she's just gonna lay an egg?

The egg got stuck and this is the first time that they have noticed something is wrong. As no pokemon have heard about pregnancy they are worried.

[paddyfool]

Option 3 is the one I like best, but then I'm not your players.

On the subject of Option 1, however, it all depends on how much they like mysteries versus clarity. If they're not so keen on being lost, perhaps he could be called away on some urgent business and also give them some quest to do for him in the meantime... based on some promise of favourable treatment in future. Once they're suitably high level to be worthy Agents of Death, that is. While he's away, you could also have an upsurge of ghostly or general undead activity if you felt like it, to represent that people are having a rougher ride over to the afterlife without a facilitator...

[Obrysii]

Death followed my characters in my first campaign around pretty regularly.

He was the last remaining living deity and kept with them two avatars of himself. An awakened teacup with surprising powers, and an incompetent young boy.

The teacup could use Scry and could even make an entire tournament grounds cause automatic nonlethal damage. The boy could do nothing.

The boy was there to test the party. As the "chosen ones" he wanted to make sure they would not be corrupted by the raw power they held. Ultimately, it was their will to protect him despite everything that earned them his utmost trust, and from then on he occasionally helped them.

Most importantly, though, was during the final battle against the ultra-uber villain, he appeared to save the cleric from certain death (sphere of annihilation) and locked the enemy's spellcasting.

That and throughout the campaign the group would use his own plane as their resting place, though he was a bipolar deity and the plane would regularly manifest different effects depending on his mood. Also, the plane was the only place Gnomes existed, and they lived in an endless loop of life and death - and could only say "Follow the Yellow Brick Road" ...

A bit of comic relief in a pretty dark campaign is good.