Health Insurance got Declined

[alchemyprime]

So, as the title indicates, I signed up for health insurance and was turned down because I have asthma. It's not serious asthma. I've had... 4 attacks in the last year. And one puff and they were GONE.

My parents told me not to tell them I had asthma. But I had to. They think me a fool, but you know what? I don't feel comfortable lying to get my way. Lying is wrong, and when I say "No Evil Shall Escape My Sight" I mean it.

Yes. I recite the Green Lantern Oath as an actual Oath. So what?

So, because of my "Never compromise. Not even in face of being uninsured" mentality, I'm uninsured.

Yeah. I'm pissed that they declined me, and I feel betrayed by my parents for treating me like a fool. It's mom's fault to begin with, turning in her paperwork late and making it so I am not on her Health Insurance.

And my fault for telling the truth. No good deed goes unpunished. :smallfrown:

[Thajocoth]

You don't have to lie to not tell the truth.

Unless they explicitly asked "Do you have asthma?" Then you would've had to explicitly lie... But it seems unlikely that that would be a direct question.

I don't have health insurance either. Haven't since June. I've been meaning to do something about that, but haven't found the time. Once I go, I don't plan on walking in and saying "Hey doc, I've got Epstein's Bar, Asperger's Syndrome, flat feet, bowed legs, a genetic heart murmur, went snowboarding a few times with no health insurance, have a violent reaction to many strong odors and my diet is the worst that you, in your entire professional career, have ever seen. Oh, and two of my teeth are fake. The scar on my neck's where a lump was removed. I forget what the lump was, but it wasn't cancer. Can I get some insurance now?"

-----

On the flip side of that though... Wouldn't asthma be in your file? I would honestly expect that any doctor talking to me would already know every one of the things I listed above.

[SurlySeraph]

You have, hopefully, learned three important lessons from this.
1. Your parents know better than you.*
2. Moral relativism saves lives.**
3. Insurance companies are evil.***

*Usually.
**Whether that makes it the right thing to practice depends on your personal beliefs
***Well, actually they're run by well-meaning people who want to help others and make some money while they're at it, but the most profitable course of action strongly resembles the most heartless course of action.

[alchemyprime]

The did specifically ask about everything I developed in the last two years. Which included Asthma and a few bouts of bronchitis and pneumonia. Surprisingly, my vertigo was not included, but my acid reflux (caused by the bronchitis) was.

I didn't just tell them everything. But when they ask "We notice you have a running prescription for an albuterol inhaler. Do you have asthma?" my answer was "yes, but only during allergy season if I exercise and when I have a bronchial infection." Sadly, in my town, allergy season is always February (not bad, one month), and then Fire Season (which can start as early as May and end as late as October. Stupid chaparral...)

[Ozreth]

I wouldn't have told them. It's not like these companies are looking out for your best interests anyways, they are looking to make money and do everything possible to not loose a dime.

You couldn't tell a little white lie to a company that has probably manipulated and schemed in every was possible to get where they are today...and now you don't have health insurance.

But I supposed if they SPECIFICALLY asked about asthma, I can see how it would be hard to say no to their faces, especially at a younger age.

I don't blame you, but I wish you woulda lied : )

[Jimorian]

Actually, if you would have lied, the following would have happened.

1) You pay whatever the premiums were for however many months until...

2) You need treatment for your asthma and they refuse to pay because the prescription that was mentioned was proof you had that pre-existing condition.

So you would have been out the money for the premiums AND stuck with the bill for whatever you thought was covered.

[Killer Angel]

You have all my comprehension. :smallfrown:


My parents told me not to tell them I had asthma. But I had to. They think me a fool, but you know what? I don't feel comfortable lying to get my way. Lying is wrong, and when I say "No Evil Shall Escape My Sight" I mean it.


Wise parents.
Look at the bright side: you know perfectly how to play properly a LG character. :smallwink:

[Ichneumon]

In wat kind of country do you live that they don't insure people's health because of them having asthma?:smallconfused:

[loopy]

In wat kind of country do you live that they don't insure people's health because of them having asthma?:smallconfused:

Gotta love the old U.S of A! :smalltongue:

[Katana_Geldar]

You know what's even more evil? You lie to them and say you don't have asthma...and then they find out and cancel your health insurance as you concealed a medical condition.

Could they make you pay back claims?

Socialised medicine FTW.

[Shikton]

Try another insurance company? I don't know how it all works over there in the States, but I don't assume companies have a common database where they store all your applications.

Or there might be companies who don't give a rat's buttox that you have asthma? It's worth a shot at least.

If all else fails, move to Norway. We have free health care.

[Zar Peter]

Try another insurance company? I don't know how it all works over there in the States, but I don't assume companies have a common database where they store all your applications.

Or there might be companies who don't give a rat's buttox that you have asthma? It's worth a shot at least.

If all else fails, move to Norway. We have free health care.

I think that's whole Europe... and Canada, too.

[SurlySeraph]

Oh boy, yes. In this wonderful nation of ours, any health insurer can deny you coverage if you have a "pre-existing condition." Asthma is just the tip of the iceberg. They'll deny you coverage because you've been beaten by your husband. No, seriously. (http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/09/domestic-violence-a-pre-existing-condition-for-insurers-in-some-states.html) They actually (http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2009/October/07/Domestic-Abuse.aspx) do that. (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/06/domestic.violence.insurance/index.html)

As for sharing medical info about you with the other insurance companies, they can only do that with your consent. Hope you read all the documents you sign very carefully.

[Last_resort_33]

I never thought I'd say this, but thank god for the National Health Service.

[Ichneumon]

I think that's whole Europe... and Canada, too.

I was under the impression that it was like that in whole Europe too, or at least a big part of it.

[ghost_warlock]

Sorry to hear this, alchemy. :smallfrown:

I'm fortunate enough to be insured through my employer; you might want to look into if that's a possibility for you. It may not be the best insurance, but at least there's a relatively small chance of being denied coverage altogether.

[Gamerlord]

This is getting into politics...

Look on the bright side, I think the coming bill bans the whole "Preexisting condition= no coverage".
Try looking into seeing if your employer provides coverage? :smallconfused:
Perhaps see if your state provides subsidies?
Just remember: A lot worse things can happen than being declined health insurance. I can name several off the top of my head.

[Decoy Lockbox]

My parents told me not to tell them I had asthma. But I had to. They think me a fool, but you know what? I don't feel comfortable lying to get my way. Lying is wrong, and when I say "No Evil Shall Escape My Sight" I mean it.

See, this is what happens when the younger generation stops listening to their elders.



Yes. I recite the Green Lantern Oath as an actual Oath. So what?

So, because of my "Never compromise. Not even in face of being uninsured" mentality, I'm uninsured.

See, this isn't a comic book, its real muthaph**kin life. And I bet if Rorschach had asthma, he woulda lied about it too. Can't have all the heroin addicts and child pornographers finding out about his secret weakness, can he?



And my fault for telling the truth. No good deed goes unpunished. :smallfrown:

Yep, pretty much. There's an immortal quote that goes something like this: "always lie". I think Coach McGuirk from Home Movies said it. And he's clearly on the ball.

[Gamerlord]

See, this is what happens when the younger generation stops listening to their elders.



See, this isn't a comic book, its real muthaph**kin life. And I bet if Rorschach had asthma, he woulda lied about it too. Can't have all the heroin addicts and child pornographers finding out about his secret weakness, can he?



Yep, pretty much. There's an immortal quote that goes something like this: "always lie". I think Coach McGuirk from Home Movies said it. And he's clearly on the ball.
I prefer "Lie when you can get away with it."

If he cares mostly about honesty, he probably isn't a very good liar.

[RS14]

{Scrubbed}

[jlvm4]

So, as the title indicates, I signed up for health insurance and was turned down because I have asthma. It's not serious asthma. I've had... 4 attacks in the last year. And one puff and they were GONE.

My parents told me not to tell them I had asthma. But I had to. They think me a fool, but you know what? I don't feel comfortable lying to get my way. Lying is wrong, and when I say "No Evil Shall Escape My Sight" I mean it.



First off, good for you! You are a GOOD person, that means telling the truth or doing the right thing, even when it's not convienent. So don't let the people who said you should have lied get to you. The world needs more green lanterns :smallsmile:

Second, if you had lied, they would be able to deny anything on your policy whether it was related to the asthma or not. And justifiably so. Insurance is a contract, dishonesty on the part of either party can void it. Any system can't work right if people keep trying to 'game' it. It adds tremendously to the costs because everyone involved spends time and money trying to 'outwit' each other.

And third, have faith. You didn't provide many details about how you were trying to get insurance for me to do anything more than guess, but if it was through work, many companies have 'exclusion' clauses for coverage. That means if you have a pre-existing condition, they won't cover it for a period of time (say 6 months) but after you've had the policy that long they do start to cover it. Talk to your HR person and see if something like that can be made to work in your case. It would be hard for the 6 months, but it would end where you wanted it, integrity intact.

If you are doing it on your own, check out other companies. Be upfront about the problem. I can't say you won't be paying a higher premium than others, but there's got to be someone out there who'll cover you.

Lastly, never underestimate the power of cash. Look for catastrophic coverage (for the stuff that will prevent you from going bankrupt like a hospital stay) and pay the rest up front in cash. Talk to your Doctors directly. More than once, I've had something expensive needed for our family (which our insurance wouldn't cover, or we didn't have) and I asked the Doctor directly for the same rate the insurance company would have paid for the procedure. If they agree, it often takes 40-50% off the bill right there. Other offices have had specific 'paid in full' discounts or other means of adjusting their prices for those that don't have insurance.

You see doctors often 'mark-up' their services, knowing the insurance companies will try to 'cut costs' by paying them only a portion of the charge (both groups are gaming the system). So if you approach them directly (without insurance) and are willing to pay, doctors are usually willing to give you the discounted rate (which is closer to their actual cost). Put the money you would have put into insurance premiums into a separate savings account (or flex pay system if your work has it--for tax savings) and use that money to pay for if and when you get sick.

Good luck and keep up the fight.

[Gamerlord]

Y'know, IIRC some hospitols actually charge less for people with no coverage, sometimes 30% less.

[RS14]

First off, good for you! You are a GOOD person, that means telling the truth or doing the right thing, even when it's not convienent. So don't let the people who said you should have lied get to you. The world needs more green lanterns :smallsmile:

Edit: Never mind, that was inappropriate.

[Telonius]

Standard "I am neither a lawyer nor an insurance expert." But -

I'm fairly sure that anyone who has insurance through their jobs are able to make changes to their policies when a "qualified life event" happens. Depending on how old you are right now (it makes a difference if you're 18, 19-25, or over 25), and whether or not you're technically a dependent of your parents, a change in your status - loss of coverage, turning 19, change in full-time student status - could allow her to add you back in.

Again, depending on the situation and your age, Medicaid or CHIP could be possibilities.

The other option is a coldhearted "get a job with benefits" (easier said than done in this economy, I know).

[jlvm4]

{Scrubbed}

I'm assuming that was some attempt at a joke, but if not...

Just because someone else does wrong, doesn't mean that you get to. Your soul is your own business, and responsibility.

Last time I checked, asthma was not a terminal condition. And if a person ever did have something critically urgent, that's exactly what the ER (where they cannot deny you treatment), medicaid and CHIP (if you're a child) are for. I'm not arguing that insurance companies and such are wonderful, just that you don't have to compromise yourself to get what you need.

[Cristo Meyers]

Actually, if you would have lied, the following would have happened.

1) You pay whatever the premiums were for however many months until...

2) You need treatment for your asthma and they refuse to pay because the prescription that was mentioned was proof you had that pre-existing condition.

So you would have been out the money for the premiums AND stuck with the bill for whatever you thought was covered.

This is probably exactly what would have happened if you'd lied or not mentioned it. It would have just cost you more in the long run.


You see doctors often 'mark-up' their services, knowing the insurance companies will try to 'cut costs' by paying them only a portion of the charge (both groups are gaming the system).

Actually, depending on what type of insurance and what state, it's the state that defines how much the insurance company should pay out. And God help them if they pay any less.


Or there might be companies who don't give a rat's buttox that you have asthma? It's worth a shot at least.

Plenty, just be prepared to pay for it.

[RS14]

I'm assuming that was some attempt at a joke, but if not...

No, not really. Watching the above-linked hearing reminded me just how much I hate the individuals responsible for these policies, and my response was perhaps a bit more bitter than it might normally be.


Last time I checked, asthma was not a terminal condition. And if a person ever did have something critically urgent, that's exactly what the ER (where they cannot deny you treatment), medicaid and CHIP (if you're a child) are for. I'm not arguing that insurance companies and such are wonderful, just that you don't have to compromise yourself to get what you need.

The issue isn't asthma. What happens is that either alchemyprime tells about his asthma, doesn't get insurance, discovers some terminal condition, and cannot afford treatment. Or he lies, gets insurance, discovers some terminal condition, and then gets his insurance rescinded, and cannot afford treatment.

This isn't a matter of emergencies. Watch the video I linked to above. This is conditions such as cancer. The ER will treat you if you have a stroke caused by a tumor, but they will not go in and actually remove it without money, which means that yes, it will eventually kill you.


Just because someone else does wrong, doesn't mean that you get to. Your soul is your own business, and responsibility.

Your right. He shouldn't do these things because it is convenient. He should do these things because the companies in question need to be dismantled, and the responsible officers should die. Alchemyprime should make sure his actions are inconvenient to him, so he is not motivated by personal gains.

[Exeson]

Now, I find this thread very interesting and actually mildly amusing. I have three letters in reply to this:

NHS
:smallsmile:

[Krrth]

Without getting into politics, I do have a question.

What level of insurance did you sign up for? Asthma usually isn't enough to decline coverage.

If you went for a preferred rate, it might be.

Talk to your agent and see if you can't get a higher risk policy. It will cost more, but would cover you. Some policies also have riders that deny coverage for specific conditions (such as Asthma). Those riders are used to issue a policy that covers everything other than the listed exceptions.

[Solaris]

{Scrubbed}

Yes, because two wrongs certainly make a right.

[Quincunx]

Yes, because two wrongs certainly make a right.

Do they make a just? I'm willing to forego righteousness for justice. How about a fair? A truthful? A beautiful?

[Solaris]

Do they make a just? I'm willing to forego righteousness for justice.

Sadly, there's little justice to be found in the insurance system.

[alchemyprime]

Without getting into politics, I do have a question.

What level of insurance did you sign up for? Asthma usually isn't enough to decline coverage.

If you went for a preferred rate, it might be.

Talk to your agent and see if you can't get a higher risk policy. It will cost more, but would cover you. Some policies also have riders that deny coverage for specific conditions (such as Asthma). Those riders are used to issue a policy that covers everything other than the listed exceptions.

I signed up for a college student PPO. My work's open enrollment isn't open yet, but it's coming soon. So either I wait for my dad to get coverage and piggyback on his plan (he recently got laid off) or I get a plan with my work or I go uninsured until November when Mom's plan resets.

Yep. That seems about the size of it.

And I don't care if I'm seen as the fool. I may keep getting screwed in the short run, but it seems every time I let some sompromise come to my morals, I get screwed long run.

BTW, dating Catwoman never works.

Anyway, I surprisingly still have dental coverage... because somehow that paperwork had a later turn in date... yeah, that makes NO sense at all...

But what we're more worried is I break my leg or something. Which I haven't ever broken a bone, but just because something hasn't happened doesn't mean it won't.

So I'm gonna go beat up Murphy on account of his law, and keep trying to live without needing anything more than a crown replaced or my teeth cleaned.

[RabbitHoleLost]

So I'm gonna go beat up Murphy on account of his law, and keep trying to live without needing anything more than a crown replaced or my teeth cleaned.

Please don't beat up on my boyfriend too much :smalleek:

Anyways, if you live in the good ol' US of A, this won't matter too much soon. You know, avoiding politics and all as much as possible, I think the new health care bill stipulates that Health Insurance companies cannot reject you for prior issues.
But, that's just what I've heard, and I'm not exactly completely educated on it.

[Solaris]

And I don't care if I'm seen as the fool. I may keep getting screwed in the short run, but it seems every time I let some sompromise come to my morals, I get screwed long run.

I've observed this phenomenon. Dishonesty works for dishonest people. Honesty works for us honest types.


So I'm gonna go beat up Murphy on account of his law, and keep trying to live without needing anything more than a crown replaced or my teeth cleaned.

Hey, hey, don't go beatin' up on Murphy just 'cause he was the first to put the law to paper. It's like hatin' on Newton for inertia and gravity.

[Krrth]

I signed up for a college student PPO. My work's open enrollment isn't open yet, but it's coming soon. So either I wait for my dad to get coverage and piggyback on his plan (he recently got laid off) or I get a plan with my work or I go uninsured until November when Mom's plan resets.


That makes a little more sense if it's a college plan. Students are high risk anyways, so they get a little trigger happy.

Each state has different guidelines, so I can only help with Virginia's rules...

Keeping that in mind, be aware of the following:

Open enrollment in a work plan can require a physical. That requirement is usually waived when you first become eligible for the plan, and sometimes during major life events (marriage, death in the family, birth in the family, and such.)

There are usually local clinics you can go to that provide free(ish) care. Be prepared to wait if you go to one however.

Dental and Vision are usually separate policies.

Even if you become injured, hospitals cannot turn you away. You'll have to pay the bill later, but they will work with you on assistance.

I salute you in being honest on your application (and in general). You need to be comfortable with yourself and be able to look in the mirror without guilt. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

[Syka]

I know at my job there are three times you can sign up: open enrollement, your first 30 days of eligibility, or when there is a life change (such as, you know, getting dropped from a parent's insurance). Talk to your employer.

I know this because I was freaking out about losing health insurance (I didn't), but my manager told me that if I was dropped then I could sign up for those under the Life Change thingy.

Good luck!

(And I'm screwed if I ever try to get private life insurance on my own. I have asthma, elipesy (despite it being controlled without drugs and not having had a seizure in a decade), vision problems, a chronic breathing issue not related to asthma, etc. This is why I am totally for a public health option.)

[pendell]

I personally think alchemyprime did the right thing. The lawful side of
me says that lying is Just Wrong, and shouldn't be done save in exceedingly grave circumstances. The chaotic side says that's especially true when it's
so easy to be caught out. As mentioned, the pre-existing condition bit will
be eventually raised in doctor's visits.

Now it's time to head over to
http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/

which is a search engine for health insurance options. Look for one where asthma is not a problem. I do have asthma, and have never had any difficulties with coverage.

Also, insurance through employers is typically prohibited from not covering people due to pre-existing issues, so you should be in better shape once your employer's insurance kicks in.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Totally Guy]

Honesty is an interesting thing. It's very good because it keeps things simple. You don't have to remember which lies cover which other lies.

But I would recommend looking into basic game theory. Just because you know how honest people will approach a particular situation it often pays to know what a situation would look like to a potentially dishonest individual. Even if you can see that you'd be vulnerable at least you can prepare for it or rationalise who's going to do what and why.

[truemane]

I wanted to add one vote to the 'well done alchemy' chorus. Morals only have validity when they're inconvenient. It's easy to say lying is wrong but it's quite another thing to refuse to lie when doing so would benefit you.

Well done. Don't be ground-down by the the fact that the system rewards lying and cheating. Morals are their own reward.

[Gamerlord]

I will vote "Good idea, you would have been caught" I only lie when I am 90% I can get away with it.

Don't get angry at the insurance companies though, they are people too, just doing their job, I myself believe they really want to help people.

[Grey Paladin]

Kudos for retaining your sense of honor in the modern world.

EDIT:
Do they make a just? I'm willing to forego righteousness for justice. How about a fair? A truthful? A beautiful?
{Scrubbed}

[Cristo Meyers]

Don't get angry at the insurance companies though, they are people too, just doing their job, I myself believe they really want to help people.

Try working for one sometime. You'll lose that notion real quick. :smalltongue:

[Supagoof]

I signed up for a college student PPO. My work's open enrollment isn't open yet, but it's coming soon. So either I wait for my dad to get coverage and piggyback on his plan (he recently got laid off) or I get a plan with my work or I go uninsured until November when Mom's plan resets.

Yep. That seems about the size of it.

And I don't care if I'm seen as the fool. I may keep getting screwed in the short run, but it seems every time I let some sompromise come to my morals, I get screwed long run.

BTW, dating Catwoman never works.

Anyway, I surprisingly still have dental coverage... because somehow that paperwork had a later turn in date... yeah, that makes NO sense at all...

But what we're more worried is I break my leg or something. Which I haven't ever broken a bone, but just because something hasn't happened doesn't mean it won't.

So I'm gonna go beat up Murphy on account of his law, and keep trying to live without needing anything more than a crown replaced or my teeth cleaned.Sounds like a solid plan. Trust me - they have people whose only task is to go through all the Dr paperwork and see if conditions exist for something and catch the inconsistencies like that.

Dental insurance is usually seperate from medical insurance. Ask someone who has a TMJ problem, where they are constantly in the void between where medical coverage drops and dental coverage picks up.

For all those who are of the notion that insurance companies mandate things like this - they don't. But they do have teams of people who job it is to keep costs down, and that does include denying coverage in instances like this. Think of how you feel if you are on the flip side of the coin, - where you have insurance. Do you want to pay higher costs for people who lied to get their coverage? For the insurance companies, its about risk and reward. The risk of taking on a client vs the reward of having that client pay over the long term for the costs of their care. We buy insurance because we don't want to take the risk. We shouldn't get upset with paying the "reward".

So Alchemy - definitely take advantage of the open enrollment. Sooner is better, but fortunately you have the option of when you sign up - with either your fathers, yours, or your mothers insurance in a year. For the time in-between, you're just going to have to assume the risk. Worry not though, because there are laws to make sure you will get treatment if something should happen to you during the interim (we all will pray not).

If you want to continue to pursue it - talk with your agent again. Be sure to ask what the other options - don't take no for an answer, ask for the next step? I've found with my years working in customer service - that most of the time when someone is telling someone NO, they are bracing for the backlash or blowup. They aren't thinking of offering the alternatives. So help them help you and ask for them.

And if you want to see some justification done to an "insurance company" - rent SAW6 if you can handle the gore when it comes out. That movie deals with a similar issue, and it does feel good to watch some get theirs.

But I can say from RL, there are a lot of good people who work for the companies.

[Decoy Lockbox]

Your right. He shouldn't do these things because it is convenient. He should do these things because the companies in question need to be dismantled, and the responsible officers should die.

...are you Samuel L. Jackson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbB_HVcXpPk) by any chance?

I'd also like to point out that screwing over an insurance company is the moral equivalent of being Robin Hood.

[Thelas]

I wanted to add one vote to the 'well done alchemy' chorus. Morals only have validity when they're inconvenient. It's easy to say lying is wrong but it's quite another thing to refuse to lie when doing so would benefit you.

Well done. Don't be ground-down by the the fact that the system rewards lying and cheating. Morals are their own reward.

I would like to also add to the 'well done alchemy' chorus.

[pendell]

Try working for one sometime. You'll lose that notion real quick. :smalltongue:

Do tell. Inquiring minds want to know.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Cristo Meyers]

Do tell. Inquiring minds want to know.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Let me put it this way: 95% of the employees will never see anything other than your name. The face of the company may care: your file handlers, adjusters, etc, but the people in charge got there by caring about the bottom line. Like it or not, these entities exist for the sole purpose of making money. What gets me is when everyone gets bent out of shape when they actually act like the corporations they are.

The people that might actually care are the ones that will actually deal closely with the claimant. Most everyone else is there to create a better bottom line. I spent two years in the bill review department of a major US insurance company: my job was to reduce costs.

Then, ironically enough, I was outsourced in the name of reducing costs. Now I'm in their legal department and after a month of seeing the kind of things we get sued for...well...I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for either party anymore.

[MethosH]

Yes, because two wrongs certainly make a right.

Yeah, and 3 rights makes one left! :smallbiggrin:

Sorry... But you were just asking for it.

[RS14]

What gets me is when everyone gets bent out of shape when they actually act like the corporations they are.


I'm fine with that in general. It should be obvious that typical insurers don't care about the clients at all, but rather their money. Such is.

What I object to is their specific behavior wrt rescission. They overreach to avoid payment: by avoiding mention of the scrutiny with which a client will be subjected in the event of a major illness, and by exploiting errors to drop clients. Until recently, I suspect most people were totally unaware of their rescission clauses, and many insurers took advantage of that. Thus I consider their behavior essentially fraudulent in a small minority of cases.

Insurers who behave responsibly wrt rescission, I assume must exist. Therefor I suppose my earlier remarks were unfounded--I shouldn't direct such anger at insurers in general. Only if the intent of the client was to defraud the company, is rescission justified, and they may then legitimately take actions which result in the deaths of said clients.

[Katana_Geldar]

{Scrubbed}

[Philistine]

Governments and companies are very similar in that both are made up of and run by people; the difference is that companies offer products and services in trade for money, while governments offer their services in exchange for power.

It's much, much, much easier to make more money than it is to regain power once you've surrendered it.

[Katana_Geldar]

That's not the way it works, a government offers it services whether it is in power or not.

[Philistine]

That's not the way it works, a government offers it services whether it is in power or not.

That's not the way it works; furthermore your statement does not make sense in the English language. A "government" that is not in power doesn't provide any services at all. It can't, because it's not in power (and it's also not a government).

In order to provide any sort of service, the government (or anyone else, for that matter) must have control over the resources necessary to perform that service. In other words, power. In the specific case of a government looking to provide health care to the general public, the required resources include medical facilities, supplies, and personnel - if the government cannot allocate these resources as it sees fit, then it cannot provide the service. QED.

[KuReshtin]

This has derailed into something very close to political discussion.
And we all know that political discussion IS BAD.

[pendell]

It seems like *every* discussion on this forum threatens to
degenerate into politics. I posted what I thought was a neat
thing about an asteroid, and within two pages people are arguing
whether we should be saving the world from a dinosaur killing asteroid
when there are all kinds of poor people blah blah blah. Thank God common
sense broke out and the parties involved shut up on their own before Roland locked it down.

I dunno whether it's an American thing or an international thing, but politics is the crack cocaine of the educated class. I know of a radio show that millions of people listen to avidly for *four hours a day*. I can barely pay attention to one man's monologue for more than a few minutes (ADHD possibly), yet people listen to this stuff for *four hours*.

Politics is drugs, and we're all addicted. Just say no!

Tongue-in-cheek,

Brian P.

[SurlySeraph]

As the length of a discussion increases, the probability of someone mentioning [politics/ Nazis/ religion/ race/ animal rights/ any other topic with strong emotional resonance] approaches 1.

[reorith]

As the length of a discussion increases, the probability of someone mentioning [politics/ Nazis/ religion/ race/ animal rights/ any other topic with strong emotional resonance] approaches 1.

obligatory nazi post.

under the third reich, the german people enjoyed a water supply free of lead an mercury, plus they improved occupational safety laws and documented asbestos usage. hitler, unfortunately, didn't cure asthma.

[Gamerlord]

I dunno whether it's an American thing or an international thing, but politics is the crack cocaine of the educated class. I know of a radio show that millions of people listen to avidly for *four hours a day*. I can barely pay attention to one man's monologue for more than a few minutes (ADHD possibly), yet people listen to this stuff for *four hours*.

Politics is drugs, and we're all addicted. Just say no!

Tongue-in-cheek,

Brian P.

-Man is a political animal
-Aristotle, one of the worlds wisest men.
On another note, Rush Limbaugh is three hours, not four(Unless you mean someone else)

[pendell]

-Man is a political animal
-Aristotle, one of the worlds wisest men.


+1. Well said.


As for the radio show I spoke of ... My understanding is that the
three hour show is the 'free' show for everyone. You can subscribe to 'person 24/7', IIRC, and get a 4th broadcast hour every day via webcast.

I don't know how he does it. I've been trapped with elderly relatives before who wanted to ramble and I couldn't make it through four minutes, let alone four hours. But not only do people listen for four hours at a stretch, they *pay* for the privilege! C'mon,
guys, your Xboxes are weeping from neglect.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[alchemyprime]

If Hitler cured asthma, I'd throw my inhaler away and hope I died from asthma.

Because my great grandad was in a labor camp and had his kneecaps broken for sabotaging his own work. He was working on the return valves and the control room circulation fans for the gas chambers.

He wired them together. Drain the gas chamber, fill the control room. He took out seven nazis before they found him out.
But that'd derail the thread. So I digress.


So Dad may be getting a job soon. We hope he gets a job as a quality control manager. Because he'd get a company car and insurance. Which means I'd get his old truck and insurance. PLEASE LET THIS WORK!

Alternatively, open enrollment is in March for my job... so I hope Dad gets employed before then.

[pendell]

Amen! Erm, yes, please let this work!

I'd do the candles and chanting thing, but somehow that works better for young women then it does for middle-aged men.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham: Real world politics is not allowed here. Even this meta-discussion about it is not permitted.